www.tcpalm.com/tcp/local_news/article/0,2545,TCP_16736_4571360,00.html


Division may get St. Lucie lawmen killed

By WILL GREENLEE
[email protected]
March 26, 2006

PORT ST. LUCIE — Wearing black battle-dress uniforms and heavy body armor, a Port St. Lucie police team lined up outside a house on Southwest Monterrey Lane one night last month, about to raid a suspected drug operation.

The sergeant knocked on the door. The door opened. Officers tensed.

Then a surprise — a dangerous surprise:

The door was opened by a St. Lucie County sheriff's sergeant.

Deputies had just raided the same house — without telling Port St. Lucie police.

They could have shot each other, angry officers later reported.

"My life as well as the lives of my team members and the lives of the sheriff's office members inside the residence were put into jeopardy by the St. Lucie County Sheriff's Office's failure to communicate with our agency," Police Detective Daniel Herrington wrote in a report on the incident.

Had there been an aggressive movement, added Officer W. van der Slik, "I would have used force against another law enforcement officer — up to and including deadly force."

The Monterrey raid revealed a disturbing reality about crime fighting in St. Lucie County: While drug cases increase, some drug cops don't talk to each other — there's been a turf war between Port St. Lucie police and sheriff's deputies.

Port St. Lucie Police Chief John Skinner says that's got to stop.

"As we become more urbanized, that kind of mindset has got to be totally extinguished and we've got to work together," Skinner said. "Have there been other incidents where one (agency) has not notified the other or we found out by reading in the paper? Absolutely."

Sheriff's Chief Deputy Garry Wilson called the Monterrey incident "unfortunate," conceding a "breakdown in the notification process on our part."

"Are there some officer safety issues? Yes," said Wilson, a former Port St. Lucie police commander. "They've been addressed with the members of the sheriff's office."

But Wilson said in the past Port St. Lucie police haven't cooperated with sheriff's deputies.

"They need to recognize the fact that the sheriff has this authority to operate countywide and that it is in everybody's best interest to share information and to work together and Port St. Lucie has been opposed to that, to date," Wilson said early last week.

In contrast, Fort Pierce police have assigned two investigators to work with his agency's drug enforcers, Wilson said, describing the sheriff's office's and Fort Pierce police's relationship as "one of the most solid . . . in law enforcement anywhere."

A Fort Pierce sergeant was with sheriff's deputies in the Monterrey raid, records show.

Wilson said Port St. Lucie police should commit an investigator to the sheriff's drug unit, which he said would "alleviate all these problems."

Skinner said he plans to assign an investigator to work with the sheriff's office on prescription drug fraud cases, but said the sheriff's office should post one of its investigators in Port St. Lucie drug unit.

"I think that's part of the solution as well," Skinner said.

Skinner also said the county's top cops need to talk more with each other.

"It starts with the leadership, and I think the buck stops here whether it's the chief of police or whether it's the sheriff," Skinner said. "Sheriff (Ken) Mascara and I have met on this issue and talked about it before. Obviously, we haven't reached a resolution so we have to continue to plug away."

Mascara was out of town last week, but Wilson said late Friday, "communication with the units is back on track." Still, among some Port St. Lucie investigators, memories of the Monterrey raid may linger.

"They have put my life and the lives of my fellow detectives in jeopardy," Police Detective Gary Grenier wrote of sheriff's deputies. "They have shown blatant disregard for officer safety."

So did the Sheriff's office shoot the police K9's?

Question: Were the Sherrif's Deputies wearing the normal full-on SWAT gear, or were they just wearing their normal uniform?

Here's a second question: Am I the only guy who sees the Super Troopers parallel?

Imagine if they wouldn't have knocked first.

You can't make this shit up!

I think all LE agencies should coordinate with whatever local LE agencies to prevent such screw-ups.  Someone could have very easily gotten killed.

Quoted: Imagine if they wouldn't have knocked first.

That would have made it very interesting.  There would have been a bunch of dead cops because of their lack of communication and over aggressive tactics but I bet civilians would some how be blamed for it.  This just goes to show that knocking on the door can work.

So, the police are mad because the deputies did a raid without telling them...on a house that the police were going to raid without telling the deputies.

Politics at it's finest. "I can do it but you can't."

I bet it really is gonna suck when they realize that no matter what it comes down to, the Sheriff wins, since he's the CLEO.

Quoted: You can't make this shit up!

Would have even been better if they were both at the wrong house.

Quoted: I think all LE agencies should coordinate with whatever local LE agencies to prevent such screw-ups.  Someone could have very easily gotten killed.

Most do. This is some type of my dick is bigger than your dick deal. There is back story to all of this somewhere.

I understand that while, technically the Sheriff has jurisdiction over entire county, they should not be allowed to operate inside a local municipalities jurisdiction without an official request! Sheriff units should only be allowed to operate in the unincorparated areas of the county.

556mm

Quoted: So, the police are mad because the deputies did a raid without telling them...on a house that the police were going to raid without telling the deputies. Politics at it's finest. "I can do it but you can't." I bet it really is gonna suck when they realize that no matter what it comes down to, the Sheriff wins, since he's the CLEO.

Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No.

In fact, the police/sheriffs's relationships I've seen is the SD doesn't do much in town unless the town asks for help.

Quoted: Quoted: So, the police are mad because the deputies did a raid without telling them...on a house that the police were going to raid without telling the deputies. Politics at it's finest. "I can do it but you can't." I bet it really is gonna suck when they realize that no matter what it comes down to, the Sheriff wins, since he's the CLEO. Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No. In fact, the police/sheriffs's relationships I've seen is the SD doesn't do much in town unless the town asks for help.

Yes, but legally the sherriff is superior.  Which is a good thing since he is the only LEO directly elected in most places.  

Quoted: Quoted: I think all LE agencies should coordinate with whatever local LE agencies to prevent such screw-ups.  Someone could have very easily gotten killed. Most do. This is some type of my dick is bigger than your dick deal. There is back story to all of this somewhere.

BINGO!!

Someone somewhere has a runaway ego.  

Quoted: I understand that while, technically the Sheriff has jurisdiction over entire county, they should not be allowed to operate inside a local municipalities jurisdiction without an official request! Sheriff units should only be allowed to operate in the unincorparated areas of the county. 556mm

Maybe I'm off-base here but the locals have about as much right to keep the county sheriff out because they have their own police as a business does to tell the city cops to pound sand because we have our own security force.  ETA: I understand your comments I just can't see how you 'disallow' him to operate there.

They should communicate but the sheriff is the county's elected chief law enforcement and it would seem he has the jusidiction to operate in that county.


I have to add that the notion of geared-up house raid ninjas getting all pissy at each other over who got there first is hollywood buddy-cop-movie funny to me.  I just picture Mel Gibson cusing 'those county assholes'.  

Quoted: Quoted: So, the police are mad because the deputies did a raid without telling them...on a house that the police were going to raid without telling the deputies. Politics at it's finest. "I can do it but you can't." I bet it really is gonna suck when they realize that no matter what it comes down to, the Sheriff wins, since he's the CLEO. Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No. In fact, the police/sheriffs's relationships I've seen is the SD doesn't do much in town unless the town asks for help.

We have been getting the "it's our city and you can't come in" for some time, but the Sheriff says that since everybody, even in the city, is paying county taxes, that they get county service.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So, the police are mad because the deputies did a raid without telling them...on a house that the police were going to raid without telling the deputies. Politics at it's finest. "I can do it but you can't." I bet it really is gonna suck when they realize that no matter what it comes down to, the Sheriff wins, since he's the CLEO. Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No. In fact, the police/sheriffs's relationships I've seen is the SD doesn't do much in town unless the town asks for help. Yes, but legally the sherriff is superior.  Which is a good thing since he is the only LEO directly elected in most places.

Define "superior."

The fact is you coordinate down, not up. Should the local police have coordinated with the SD, the State Police, the FBI, the DEA and the ATF? No, that's silly.

What should happen is the agency with the larger jurisdiction should coordinate with the "lesser" jurisdictions when applicable.

Quoted: I understand that while, technically the Sheriff has jurisdiction over entire county, they should not be allowed to operate inside a local municipalities jurisdiction without an official request! Sheriff units should only be allowed to operate in the unincorparated areas of the county. 556mm

See my above post.

The people in the city wind up paying taxes for 2 agencues, so they get the service of 2 agencies.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So, the police are mad because the deputies did a raid without telling them...on a house that the police were going to raid without telling the deputies. Politics at it's finest. "I can do it but you can't." I bet it really is gonna suck when they realize that no matter what it comes down to, the Sheriff wins, since he's the CLEO. Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No. In fact, the police/sheriffs's relationships I've seen is the SD doesn't do much in town unless the town asks for help. We have been getting the "it's our city and you can't come in" for some time, but the Sheriff says that since everybody, even in the city, is paying county taxes, that they get county service.

They can have county service. For the reasons I listed above the SD should coordinate down, not the PD coordinating up.

Quoted: I understand that while, technically the Sheriff has jurisdiction over entire county, they should not be allowed to operate inside a local municipalities jurisdiction without an official request! Sheriff units should only be allowed to operate in the unincorparated areas of the county. 556mm

Unless as is the case in the city that I live in the city police suck and the county sheriff is a much better police force.  Right now the two aren't getting along and the sheriff isn't responding inside the city...meanwhile crime has been going through the roof.  For the first time in 4 years, I've had 2 indicents of people in my vehicles, a hostage stand off at the end of the block, just down the road two people helping at a church came outside after hearing a noise and two thugs opened fire on them.  Even though the deputies are patrolling the county I see more of their cars than I do city police.  So as CLEO the sheriff should be able to step things up if the city isn't doing it's job.

Quoted: Define "superior." The fact is you coordinate down, not up. Should the local police have coordinated with the SD, the State Police, the FBI, the DEA and the ATF? No, that's silly. What should happen is the agency with the larger jurisdiction should coordinate with the "lesser" jurisdictions when applicable.

In most states the county sherriff is, by statute, the highest ranking law enforcement officer in the county.  He is superior to anyone in his jurisdiction.  Thus while his organization may be lesser in terms of size and budget, in terms of legal power he is a five star general in his county.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So, the police are mad because the deputies did a raid without telling them...on a house that the police were going to raid without telling the deputies. Politics at it's finest. "I can do it but you can't." I bet it really is gonna suck when they realize that no matter what it comes down to, the Sheriff wins, since he's the CLEO. Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No. In fact, the police/sheriffs's relationships I've seen is the SD doesn't do much in town unless the town asks for help. Yes, but legally the sherriff is superior.  Which is a good thing since he is the only LEO directly elected in most places.

Because they won a popularity contest means its a good thing they are considered Superior?  

Man am I confused.  I would thing the more qualified office should be the "more superior"

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So, the police are mad because the deputies did a raid without telling them...on a house that the police were going to raid without telling the deputies. Politics at it's finest. "I can do it but you can't." I bet it really is gonna suck when they realize that no matter what it comes down to, the Sheriff wins, since he's the CLEO. Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No. In fact, the police/sheriffs's relationships I've seen is the SD doesn't do much in town unless the town asks for help. Yes, but legally the sherriff is superior.  Which is a good thing since he is the only LEO directly elected in most places.   Because they won a popularity contest means its a good thing they are considered Superior?   Man am I confused.  I would thing the more qualified office should be the "more superior"

And get this...the elected Sheriff, Ken Mascara, is a chiropractor by trade.

Quoted: Quoted: Define "superior." The fact is you coordinate down, not up. Should the local police have coordinated with the SD, the State Police, the FBI, the DEA and the ATF? No, that's silly. What should happen is the agency with the larger jurisdiction should coordinate with the "lesser" jurisdictions when applicable. In most states the county sherriff is, by statute, the highest ranking law enforcement officer in the county.  He is superior to anyone in his jurisdiction.  Thus while his organization may be lesser in terms of size and budget, in terms of legal power he is a five star general in his county.

Let's say that is indeed the case here. Then why wasn't he coordinating with the lesser agency? A superior coordinates the actions of lessers, not vice versa.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So, the police are mad because the deputies did a raid without telling them...on a house that the police were going to raid without telling the deputies. Politics at it's finest. "I can do it but you can't." I bet it really is gonna suck when they realize that no matter what it comes down to, the Sheriff wins, since he's the CLEO. Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No. In fact, the police/sheriffs's relationships I've seen is the SD doesn't do much in town unless the town asks for help. Yes, but legally the sherriff is superior.  Which is a good thing since he is the only LEO directly elected in most places.   Because they won a popularity contest means its a good thing they are considered Superior?   Man am I confused.  I would thing the more qualified office should be the "more superior"

God forbid we elect our own law enforcement.  Do you need me to explain the concept of a "republic" to you?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Define "superior." The fact is you coordinate down, not up. Should the local police have coordinated with the SD, the State Police, the FBI, the DEA and the ATF? No, that's silly. What should happen is the agency with the larger jurisdiction should coordinate with the "lesser" jurisdictions when applicable. In most states the county sherriff is, by statute, the highest ranking law enforcement officer in the county.  He is superior to anyone in his jurisdiction.  Thus while his organization may be lesser in terms of size and budget, in terms of legal power he is a five star general in his county.   Let's say that is indeed the case here. Then why wasn't he coordinating with the lesser agency? A superior coordinates the actions of lessers, not vice versa.

No argument from me there.  Its just an interesting little known fact that the sherriff reigns supreme.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So, the police are mad because the deputies did a raid without telling them...on a house that the police were going to raid without telling the deputies. Politics at it's finest. "I can do it but you can't." I bet it really is gonna suck when they realize that no matter what it comes down to, the Sheriff wins, since he's the CLEO. Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No. In fact, the police/sheriffs's relationships I've seen is the SD doesn't do much in town unless the town asks for help. Yes, but legally the sherriff is superior.  Which is a good thing since he is the only LEO directly elected in most places.   Because they won a popularity contest means its a good thing they are considered Superior?   Man am I confused.  I would thing the more qualified office should be the "more superior" God forbid we elect our own law enforcement.  Do you need me to explain the concept of a "republic" to you?

Define away!

My comment is less on the fact that we elect our "Sherrif" and more on the idiocy of the comment that this is what makes the office Superior to local departments.

Quoted: And get this...the elected Sheriff, Ken Mascara, is a chiropractor by trade.

And that probably answers why the local PD, has a problem with this whole situation.

If he is not qualified, it is the peoples fault foe electing his ass.

Quoted: Quoted: And get this...the elected Sheriff, Ken Mascara, is a chiropractor by trade. And that probably answers why the local PD, has a problem with this whole situation. If he is not qualified, it is the peoples fault foe electing his ass.

Thank you for proving my point.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Define "superior." The fact is you coordinate down, not up. Should the local police have coordinated with the SD, the State Police, the FBI, the DEA and the ATF? No, that's silly. What should happen is the agency with the larger jurisdiction should coordinate with the "lesser" jurisdictions when applicable. In most states the county sherriff is, by statute, the highest ranking law enforcement officer in the county.  He is superior to anyone in his jurisdiction.  Thus while his organization may be lesser in terms of size and budget, in terms of legal power he is a five star general in his county.   Let's say that is indeed the case here. Then why wasn't he coordinating with the lesser agency? A superior coordinates the actions of lessers, not vice versa.

Part of that problem falls into the fact that the agencies are seperate entities, and, within the law, the police simply don't have to follow along with what the Sheriff sets up if they choose not to.

Another part of the problem is the fact that, whether they like it or not, the police are within the jurisdiction of the Sheriff, and with that fact, comes the responsibility of notifying the Sheriff's Office of major actions such as this.

Now, you are correct though, after the deputies are aware of the intentions of the police, I think the supreme responsibility falls to the Sheriff's Office to coordinate between the two, or to designate somebody from one of the agencies to do so.

The only reason the city cops are mad is because the Sheriff beat them to the LOOT.

Quoted: Quoted: And get this...the elected Sheriff, Ken Mascara, is a chiropractor by trade. And that probably answers why the local PD, has a problem with this whole situation. If he is not qualified, it is the peoples fault foe electing his ass.

Yeah, I voted for the guy with 21 years of FBI experience.  But the local aged democrats loved this guy.

Quoted: Quoted: And get this...the elected Sheriff, Ken Mascara, is a chiropractor by trade. And that probably answers why the local PD, has a problem with this whole situation. If he is not qualified, it is the peoples fault foe electing his ass.

While not common it does happen. I went through the police academy with a guy who had just been elected Sheriff and did not have one day's expierence as a LEO. As a matter of fact it's the only LEO job I know of that does not require you go through some type of academy.

The fault here is definitely with the Sheriff's department.  Sounds like this county has issues - shame on the elctorate for voting an apparent jackass on a power trip - and quack - into such an office.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if their is graft and othe rcorruption going on as well.  Maybe the Sheriff couldn't keep enough old ladies scheduled for regular back crackings and felt that drug profits could be more lucrative.

Doesn't Florida have a state level agency that can wield authority to resolve this clusterfuck?

Quoted: Quoted: So, the police are mad because the deputies did a raid without telling them...on a house that the police were going to raid without telling the deputies. Politics at it's finest. "I can do it but you can't." I bet it really is gonna suck when they realize that no matter what it comes down to, the Sheriff wins, since he's the CLEO. Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No. In fact, the police/sheriffs's relationships I've seen is the SD doesn't do much in town unless the town asks for help.

The SD around here has jurisdiction throughout the County.  If they do something inside of one of the cities or townships that have their own police dept. they might piss someone off, but there isn't a thing that the city/township can do about it.  That is probably the case here as well.  Most county sheriff's depts will allow the cities to do their own thing, but they can do whatever they want for the most part as the cities are still within their jurisdiction.  That is not the case with the city depts, their jurisdiction ends at the city limits.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And get this...the elected Sheriff, Ken Mascara, is a chiropractor by trade. And that probably answers why the local PD, has a problem with this whole situation. If he is not qualified, it is the peoples fault foe electing his ass. While not common it does happen. I went through the police academy with a guy who had just been elected Sheriff and did not have one day's expierence as a LEO. As a matter of fact it's the only LEO job I know of that does not require you go through some type of academy.

In MS a department can hire you and WORK YOU ON THE STREETS for up to TWO YEARS before they HAVE to send you to an acadamy.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So, the police are mad because the deputies did a raid without telling them...on a house that the police were going to raid without telling the deputies. Politics at it's finest. "I can do it but you can't." I bet it really is gonna suck when they realize that no matter what it comes down to, the Sheriff wins, since he's the CLEO. Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No. In fact, the police/sheriffs's relationships I've seen is the SD doesn't do much in town unless the town asks for help. Yes, but legally the sherriff is superior.  Which is a good thing since he is the only LEO directly elected in most places.   Because they won a popularity contest means its a good thing they are considered Superior?   Man am I confused.  I would thing the more qualified office should be the "more superior" God forbid we elect our own law enforcement.  Do you need me to explain the concept of a "republic" to you? Define away! My comment is less on the fact that we elect our "Sherrif" and more on the idiocy of the comment that this is what makes the office Superior to local departments.

It comes down to: is it wiser to have the chief law enforcement officer of the county a person elected by the people, or a person appointed by others?

He is not superior because he is elected, but that sure is a hell of a lot nicer than having the CLEO an appointed official.

Quoted: The fault here is definitely with the Sheriff's department.  Sounds like this county has issues - shame on the elctorate for voting an apparent jackass on a power trip - and quack - into such an office. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if their is graft and othe rcorruption going on as well.  Maybe the Sheriff couldn't keep enough old ladies scheduled for regular back crackings and felt that drug profits could be more lucrative. Doesn't Florida have a state level agency that can wield authority to resolve this clusterfuck?

"On a power trip"

For excersizing his jurisdictional authority?  Tell me more.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So, the police are mad because the deputies did a raid without telling them...on a house that the police were going to raid without telling the deputies. Politics at it's finest. "I can do it but you can't." I bet it really is gonna suck when they realize that no matter what it comes down to, the Sheriff wins, since he's the CLEO. Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No. In fact, the police/sheriffs's relationships I've seen is the SD doesn't do much in town unless the town asks for help. Yes, but legally the sherriff is superior.  Which is a good thing since he is the only LEO directly elected in most places.   Because they won a popularity contest means its a good thing they are considered Superior?   Man am I confused.  I would thing the more qualified office should be the "more superior" God forbid we elect our own law enforcement.  Do you need me to explain the concept of a "republic" to you? Define away! My comment is less on the fact that we elect our "Sherrif" and more on the idiocy of the comment that this is what makes the office Superior to local departments.

The idiocy is in your inability to read, not in my statement.  I said that LEGALLY the sherriff is superior, meaning that he is the boss, not more qualified.  I find this to be a good thing because it is an extra democratic check on the system.  

Quoted: Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No.

Of course it depends on the state but you are wrong. I worked for a city but I could make an arrest anywhere in the county or State. You just have to put the case in the right court for that jurisdiction.

So city leo's can make arrests out in the county, state etc. not just their city.

The liability is on the Sheriff's Office/Department for not notifying other LEA's in the area.
It's called "Deconfliction" and is or should be part of EVERY potential warrant service.

You need to make sure that the guy your folks are going to get for an ounce of weed isn't the lynchpin of a mutlijurisdictional investigation into child porn, suitcase nukes, and the webmaster of the democratic underground.

Plus, it's a safety measure to make sure that police don't inadvertantly shoot other police.

pato

Quoted: Yes, but legally the sherriff is superior.  Which is a good thing since he is the only LEO directly elected in most places.

Ok, so I don't have the ability to read.  

I read it as you think it is a good thing that the most legally superior officer in this situtation is so becuase he is elected.  Is this not correct?

Then if so I would have you go read the last post by PosterChild.

Quoted:

And get this...the elected Sheriff, Ken Mascara, is a chiropractor by trade.

Maybe the "LAW" in this case is not best suited for an "elected" official.

I want my safety in the hands of a "Qualified" LEO.  Not a chiropractor!  

Then again my neck is a bit stiff today.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And get this...the elected Sheriff, Ken Mascara, is a chiropractor by trade. And that probably answers why the local PD, has a problem with this whole situation. If he is not qualified, it is the peoples fault foe electing his ass. While not common it does happen. I went through the police academy with a guy who had just been elected Sheriff and did not have one day's expierence as a LEO. As a matter of fact it's the only LEO job I know of that does not require you go through some type of academy. In MS a department can hire you and WORK YOU ON THE STREETS for up to TWO YEARS before they HAVE to send you to an acadamy.

Same here for 6 months but you have to be signed up to go. And you are only allowed one time work the 6 months and then start. Some departments would fire and rehire every 5 1/2 months to get around this issue.

Still in the long run the Sheriff's job is the only one that does not require formal training.

Quoted: Quoted: Yes, but legally the sherriff is superior.  Which is a good thing since he is the only LEO directly elected in most places.   Ok, so I don't have the ability to read.   I read it as you think it is a good thing that the most legally superior officer in this situtation is so becuase he is elected.  Is this not correct? Then if so I would have you go read the last post by PosterChild. Quoted: And get this...the elected Sheriff, Ken Mascara, is a chiropractor by trade. Maybe the "LAW" in this case is not best suited for an "elected" official. I want my safety in the hands of a "Qualified" LEO.  Not a chiropractor!   Then again my neck is a bit stiff today.

I must admit, you have an unusual viewpoint, since nearly every other "non-LEO" (I don't say civilian) would greatly prefer oversight of LEO's by another "non-LEO"

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yes, but legally the sherriff is superior.  Which is a good thing since he is the only LEO directly elected in most places.   Ok, so I don't have the ability to read.   I read it as you think it is a good thing that the most legally superior officer in this situtation is so becuase he is elected.  Is this not correct? Then if so I would have you go read the last post by PosterChild. Quoted: And get this...the elected Sheriff, Ken Mascara, is a chiropractor by trade. Maybe the "LAW" in this case is not best suited for an "elected" official. I want my safety in the hands of a "Qualified" LEO.  Not a chiropractor!   Then again my neck is a bit stiff today.

I must admit, you have an unusual viewpoint, since nearly every other "non-LEO" (I don't say civilian) would greatly prefer oversight of LEO's by another "non-LEO"[/quote]

Only on this sight. Mr and Mrs America love cops and would rather have professional leo's as sheriff.

Quoted: Quoted: Yes, but legally the sherriff is superior.  Which is a good thing since he is the only LEO directly elected in most places.   Ok, so I don't have the ability to read.   I read it as you think it is a good thing that the most legally superior officer in this situtation is so becuase he is elected.  Is this not correct?

Yep.  Apparently you can read.  I think democratic control over the police is a good thing.  After all, they are theoretically supposed to be public servants, and not public masters.  Wouldn't it be nice to be able to vote on no-knocks?  

Then if so I would have you go read the last post by PosterChild. Quoted: And get this...the elected Sheriff, Ken Mascara, is a chiropractor by trade. Maybe the "LAW" in this case is not best suited for an "elected" official. I want my safety in the hands of a "Qualified" LEO.  Not a chiropractor!   Then again my neck is a bit stiff today.

The ATF is full of "qualified" LEOs.  At least when Mascara fucks up the people can shitcan him.  When the ATF fucks up they tend to prosecute the victims and then promote the fuck ups.  

Quoted: "Sheriff (Ken) Mascara

So when this guy runs for re-election will his campaign signs read:

Your Mascara is running again!

Quoted: Quoted: The fault here is definitely with the Sheriff's department.  Sounds like this county has issues - shame on the elctorate for voting an apparent jackass on a power trip - and quack - into such an office. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if their is graft and othe rcorruption going on as well.  Maybe the Sheriff couldn't keep enough old ladies scheduled for regular back crackings and felt that drug profits could be more lucrative. Doesn't Florida have a state level agency that can wield authority to resolve this clusterfuck? "On a power trip" For excersizing his jurisdictional authority?  Tell me more.

To reduce the argument to its absurd extremes, would it be appropriate for the FBI to conduct an op in some city without coordinating with every local jurisdiction effected?  They may have the authority, but to do so without valid security reasons they would definitely be "on a power trip" - and imposing additional - and inexcusable - risk both on the op and on the local population.

Quoted: Quoted: Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No. Of course it depends on the state but you are wrong. I worked for a city but I could make an arrest anywhere in the county or State. You just have to put the case in the right court for that jurisdiction. So city leo's can make arrests out in the county, state etc. not just their city.

But they could not set-up a raid in some other city in the state right?  As a state sworn law enforcement officer they can arrest anytime they see a crime commited in the state but they can not conduct operations outside thier jurisdiction was my understanding.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Let's do a little critical thinking. Can the police department enforce laws outside of their town and in the county? No. Of course it depends on the state but you are wrong. I worked for a city but I could make an arrest anywhere in the county or State. You just have to put the case in the right court for that jurisdiction. So city leo's can make arrests out in the county, state etc. not just their city. But they could not set-up a raid in some other city in the state right?  As a state sworn law enforcement officer they can arrest anytime they see a crime commited in the state but they can not conduct operations outside thier jurisdiction was my understanding.

Yes, they can conduct operations outside of their normal AO.

ETA: Again state laws vary. YMMV.