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Posted: 3/27/2006 6:07:17 AM EDT
I see these signs at truck weigh stations on the interstates and don't know what it means. How do you evade paying fuel taxes when they are part of the price of fuel? Is this a truck thing?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 6:12:03 AM EDT
It's easy. You run offroad diesel that does not have the tax figured into the price. If you are hauling heavy equipment, siphon a bunch of the fuel from the heavy equipment into your tank. Pure profit.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 6:13:04 AM EDT
Off road diesel for farm, construction and power generation is dyed red. In water seperators, filters and return lines there are clear sections where you can see if the fuel is dyed red.

Also home heating oil is just #2 distillate, cheap diesel. And yes, it is also dyed red.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 6:13:29 AM EDT
Runnin' 'Red Fuel', as in Offroad diesel or #1 Fuel oil. They kinda spank people hard for doin' that.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 6:16:32 AM EDT
The fuel tax is only on fuel used to move vehicles over the road. If I remember right, fuel for farm equipment and reefer fuel doesn’t have to be taxed, but it has a dye added. (Reefer, meaning refrigerated trailers. They have a compressor and generator that keep the cargo cool. Sorta funny the first time you hear a driver tell the fuel clerk he needs some reefer.)

DOT can test for the dye and see if you’ve been putting any non taxed fuel in your truck.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 6:24:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Thuban:
The fuel tax is only on fuel used to move vehicles over the road.

DOT can test for the dye and see if you’ve been putting any non taxed fuel in your truck.



Fine can be up to $10,000 IIRC.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:51:46 AM EDT
I am surprised no one has invented a filter which can remove all the dye.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:56:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
I am surprised no one has invented a filter which can remove all the dye.



In AR anyhow, they stick a tube down in your fuel tank and check the fuel in the tank, so the filter wont work.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:56:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Thuban:
DOT can test for the dye and see if you’ve been putting any non taxed fuel in your truck.



So what if you're using your truck mostly for farm work, but occasionally go on-road with it and put in regular gas on those occasions? Would they still say you did something illegal?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:58:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
I am surprised no one has invented a filter which can remove all the dye.



And how would one go about sneaking that past the .gov? That would be about like selling a "meth lab in a box" at your local walmart.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:01:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:

Originally Posted By Thuban:
DOT can test for the dye and see if you’ve been putting any non taxed fuel in your truck.



So what if you're using your truck mostly for farm work, but occasionally go on-road with it and put in regular gas on those occasions? Would they still say you did something illegal?



Yup. Any red dye means you are using non taxed fuel.

You cannot have a sperate fuel tank for offraod use only, or anything of that nature.

The .gov wants you to always fill with taxed fuel, then declare your % of offroad use and possible get a refund, or use it as a deduction.

Before long they will want road tax on fuel used in tractors, construction equipment, etc, because they move on the roads too.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:04:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:


Before long they will want road tax on fuel used in tractors, construction equipment, etc, because they move on the roads too.



Nope they will always protect the farmers....and rightfully so.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:04:52 AM EDT
I knew this old WWII vet that wouldn't get rid of his diesel oldsmobile for this vary reason. His heating fuel tank was in the garage, right next to his car. This was way up in the north woods, didn't bother me one bit.

-JTP
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:06:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:


So what if you're using your truck mostly for farm work, but occasionally go on-road with it and put in regular gas on those occasions? Would they still say you did something illegal?



No. People would just laugh at the jackass who put gas in his diesel and blew it up. Stupidity is its own tax.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:06:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:

Originally Posted By Thuban:
DOT can test for the dye and see if you’ve been putting any non taxed fuel in your truck.



So what if you're using your truck mostly for farm work, but occasionally go on-road with it and put in regular gas on those occasions? Would they still say you did something illegal?



Yes. IIRC the dye used is supposed to be detectable after being diluted a certain amount. Basically any amount of offroad fuel in the tank is a bad idea if you get caught.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:11:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:


Before long they will want road tax on fuel used in tractors, construction equipment, etc, because they move on the roads too.



Nope they will always protect the farmers....and rightfully so.



I disagree.

There have already been talks of taxation, and weight permits for large grain wagons, maure tanks, etc, things that are currently exempt.

Besides, if the .gov really wanted to protect farmers, they would put high tariffs on imported meat, grain, and other ag products.

High volume South American farms is part of the reason for such low soy bean prices.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:11:42 AM EDT
I'm sure an enterprising young chemist could find a way to do it and then operate a business from Mexico.

If they can get drugs in, they can get anything in.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:15:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Admiral_Crunch:

So what if you're using your truck mostly for farm work, but occasionally go on-road with it and put in regular gas on those occasions? Would they still say you did something illegal?



Varies state to state I would guess.
Here in WA Farmers have special permit tags on thier farm trucks they drive on the roads with red diesel. Farmers are supposed to only be on roads when farming requires it like running grain trucks to the silo's etc .. they would probably take offense if you used farm gas for your daily driver into town for a non farm related job..
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:15:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 11:18:50 AM EDT by krpind]
It is also to report biodiesel.

I have to fill out a form every year, saying I am not useing the methanol we buy to manufacture a taxable fuel.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:18:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:


Before long they will want road tax on fuel used in tractors, construction equipment, etc, because they move on the roads too.



Nope they will always protect the farmers....and rightfully so.



I disagree.

There have already been talks of taxation, and weight permits for large grain wagons, maure tanks, etc, things that are currently exempt.

Besides, if the .gov really wanted to protect farmers, they would put high tariffs on imported meat, grain, and other ag products.

High volume South American farms is part of the reason for such low soy bean prices.



That's stupid.

I think we should protect farmers, and that off road diesel saves them lots of money.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:27:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:


Before long they will want road tax on fuel used in tractors, construction equipment, etc, because they move on the roads too.



Nope they will always protect the farmers....and rightfully so.



I disagree.

There have already been talks of taxation, and weight permits for large grain wagons, maure tanks, etc, things that are currently exempt.

Besides, if the .gov really wanted to protect farmers, they would put high tariffs on imported meat, grain, and other ag products.

High volume South American farms is part of the reason for such low soy bean prices.



That's stupid.

I think we should protect farmers, and that off road diesel saves them lots of money.



I completely agree.

But still, $2+ a gallon for off road diesel doesnt help anything either . Dad's John Deere will burn over 100 gallons a day, and considering it take multiple passes to get everything ready to plant, that really hurts the bottom line.

A number of farmers are looking at no till farming this year, to try and cut costs as much as possible.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:34:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:

I completely agree.

But still, $2+ a gallon for off road diesel doesnt help anything either . Dad's John Deere will burn over 100 gallons a day, and considering it take multiple passes to get everything ready to plant, that really hurts the bottom line.

A number of farmers are looking at no till farming this year, to try and cut costs as much as possible.


I burn waste vegetable oil in my truck. I warm up on pump diesel and ten minutes prior to shutdown I run pump diesel. I normally burn about 2200 gallons of fuel a year. This equates to roughly $5300 a year in fuel costs. Using WVO has allowed me to burn only 200 gallons or so a year of pump diesel.

You do the math. www.greasel.com
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:39:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 338winmag:
It's easy. You run offroad diesel that does not have the tax figured into the price. If you are hauling heavy equipment, siphon a bunch of the fuel from the heavy equipment into your tank. Pure profit.



Ditto marine diesel.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:39:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:

A number of farmers are looking at no till farming this year, to try and cut costs as much as possible.



I have some friends that farm 10K or so acres in MS and they went to no-till a few years ago. Saving big $$$ on both labor and fuel.



Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:42:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By g136653:




If you are not reporting and paying the use tax, you just admitted to evasion.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:43:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By g136653:

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:

I completely agree.

But still, $2+ a gallon for off road diesel doesnt help anything either . Dad's John Deere will burn over 100 gallons a day, and considering it take multiple passes to get everything ready to plant, that really hurts the bottom line.

A number of farmers are looking at no till farming this year, to try and cut costs as much as possible.


I burn waste vegetable oil in my truck. I warm up on pump diesel and ten minutes prior to shutdown I run pump diesel. I normally burn about 2200 gallons of fuel a year. This equates to roughly $5300 a year in fuel costs. Using WVO has allowed me to burn only 200 gallons or so a year of pump diesel.

You do the math. www.greasel.com



Been tried already. The logistics of getting and processing 700 gallons a week is not too user friendy, and I don't like the chances of gumming up an injector or fuel pump with 100% bio.

We already run 20%, as well as a little used motor oil in the mix to help lube the fuel.

And how long will it be before the .gov tries to tax veggie oil burners? They are already trying ot get the hybrids.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:44:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
I am surprised no one has invented a filter which can remove all the dye.



And how would one go about sneaking that past the .gov? That would be about like selling a "meth lab in a box" at your local walmart.



Presumably it is legal to filter dye out of other liquids.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:46:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:
It is also to report biodiesel.

I have to fill out a form every year, saying I am not useing the methanol we buy to manufacture a taxable fuel.


Have to keep feeding big oil and big gov't, you know.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:46:41 AM EDT
I know a man who got busted by the California Highway Patrol for burning JP-5 in his Diesel VW Rabbit. The car ran great on the stuff, but the purple soot from the dye gave him away.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:47:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By g136653:




If you are not reporting and paying the use tax, you just admitted to evasion.


No law against buring garbage pal. I haven't manufactured any fuel, and the law in my state actually rewards you with tax cuts if you use waste oil for this purpose.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:48:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
I am surprised no one has invented a filter which can remove all the dye.



And how would one go about sneaking that past the .gov? That would be about like selling a "meth lab in a box" at your local walmart.



Presumably it is legal to filter dye out of other liquids.



Well, if that is the case, then the manufacturer would get by for a while, but the end user would be screwed.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:51:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By g136653:

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By g136653:




If you are not reporting and paying the use tax, you just admitted to evasion.


No law against buring garbage pal. I haven't manufactured any fuel, and the law in my state actually rewards you with tax cuts if you use waste oil for this purpose.



As of right now, you don't need to pay taxes on home made bio diesel. But if more people start doing it, and it cuts into hiway funding, then they will find some way to tax you.

There was a post about Oregon taxing by the mile, to try and make up for the hybrids and high mpg diesel cars.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:53:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By g136653:

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By g136653:




If you are not reporting and paying the use tax, you just admitted to evasion.


No law against buring garbage pal. I haven't manufactured any fuel, and the law in my state actually rewards you with tax cuts if you use waste oil for this purpose.



Dude I'm telling you if you are using that fuel in a vehicle that is used on a public road.....you are supposed to figure the tax and pay it.

It goes to the IRS, not the state.

YM(won't)V.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 11:55:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By BarnStormer:

Originally Posted By g136653:

Originally Posted By krpind:

Originally Posted By g136653:




If you are not reporting and paying the use tax, you just admitted to evasion.


No law against buring garbage pal. I haven't manufactured any fuel, and the law in my state actually rewards you with tax cuts if you use waste oil for this purpose.



As of right now, you don't need to pay taxes on home made bio diesel. But if more people start doing it, and it cuts into hiway funding, then they will find some way to tax you.

There was a post about Oregon taxing by the mile, to try and make up for the hybrids and high mpg diesel cars.



Guy's I telling you I fill out the form EVERY year, saying I am not using some of the chemicals I buy to manufacture an on road fuel.

The IRS IS taxing biodiesel.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:40:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
I am surprised no one has invented a filter which can remove all the dye.



Who says they haven't?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:44:28 PM EDT
FWIW, they bust people in GB for running veg. oil in their cars for evading fuel taxes. Virgin veg. oil is apparently cheaper than diesel, they have sniffer machines that check auto emissions.
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