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Posted: 3/26/2006 12:12:51 PM EDT
seems like 99% of them are family squabbles, custody battles, etc

Case in point:

----------------

http://www.wral.com/news/8263022/detail.html

3-Year-Old Georgia Boy Found Safe In Raleigh; Amber Alert Canceled

POSTED: 12:22 am EST March 26, 2006
UPDATED: 1:07 pm EST March 26, 2006

JONESBORO, Ga. -- A three-year-old boy was found unharmed early Saturday after being abducted by his mother's former boyfriend from a restaurant in Hampton, authorities said.

<snip>

-----------------

quit wasting my time Amber Alert people!
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:21:07 PM EDT
Amber alert was started by a family whose daughter was viciously murdered after being abducted.

They have helped stop some abductions, and I would rather see a child safely returned, than to let another child meet such a horrible death.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:22:18 PM EDT
And the 1% it is not is well worth it in my opnion. And family members do hurt other family members from time to tim.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:24:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
seems like 99% of them are family squabbles, custody battles, etc

Case in point:

----------------

http://www.wral.com/news/8263022/detail.html

3-Year-Old Georgia Boy Found Safe In Raleigh; Amber Alert Canceled

POSTED: 12:22 am EST March 26, 2006
UPDATED: 1:07 pm EST March 26, 2006

JONESBORO, Ga. -- A three-year-old boy was found unharmed early Saturday after being abducted by his mother's former boyfriend from a restaurant in Hampton, authorities said.

<snip>

-----------------

quit wasting my time Amber Alert people!



You did notice that the kid was abducted? I believe that's a crime about everywhere and if it was my kid, I would be very pleased it did. I do not care who's radio program it interupted.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:29:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:30:42 PM EDT
Worth it.


Not properly used in this custody crap though.
All it takes is some screwy bitch whining and the entire gov't comes down. What a bunch of fucking bullshit. Talk about reinforcing bad behavior
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:31:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JC_:


You did notice that the kid was abducted? I believe that's a crime about everywhere and if it was my kid, I would be very pleased it did. I do not care who's radio program it interupted.



The original Amber was abducted by a stranger, in this case it was an ex, the perp is known like it seems in 99% of them. Different circumstances. Domestic disputes set off my Mind My Own Business alarm.


Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:32:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By purplecheese:
Amber alert was started by a family whose daughter was viciously murdered after being abducted.





Where and why did AMBER Alert first start?
The AMBER Alert System began in 1996 when Dallas-Fort Worth broadcasters teamed with local police to develop an early warning system to help find abducted children. AMBER stands for America's Missing: Broadcast Emergency Response and was created as a legacy to 9-year-old Amber Hagerman, who was kidnapped while riding her bicycle in Arlington, Texas, and then brutally murdered. Other states and communities soon set up their own AMBER plans as the idea was adopted across the nation.



source
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:34:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By JC_:


You did notice that the kid was abducted? I believe that's a crime about everywhere and if it was my kid, I would be very pleased it did. I do not care who's radio program it interupted.



The original Amber was abducted by a stranger, in this case it was an ex, the perp is known like it seems in 99% of them. Different circumstances. Domestic disputes set off my Mind My Own Business alarm.





So if dad was molesting his daughter, mom divorced him and he wasn't allowed to see the child, then dad kidnaps the daughter, that would set off your "Mind My Own Business" alarm?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:43:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lagadelphia:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By JC_:


You did notice that the kid was abducted? I believe that's a crime about everywhere and if it was my kid, I would be very pleased it did. I do not care who's radio program it interupted.



The original Amber was abducted by a stranger, in this case it was an ex, the perp is known like it seems in 99% of them. Different circumstances. Domestic disputes set off my Mind My Own Business alarm.





So if dad was molesting his daughter, mom divorced him and he wasn't allowed to see the child, then dad kidnaps the daughter, that would set off your "Mind My Own Business" alarm?



We're talking about the real world here, not the planet Mongo.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:26:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By lagadelphia:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By JC_:


You did notice that the kid was abducted? I believe that's a crime about everywhere and if it was my kid, I would be very pleased it did. I do not care who's radio program it interupted.



The original Amber was abducted by a stranger, in this case it was an ex, the perp is known like it seems in 99% of them. Different circumstances. Domestic disputes set off my Mind My Own Business alarm.





So if dad was molesting his daughter, mom divorced him and he wasn't allowed to see the child, then dad kidnaps the daughter, that would set off your "Mind My Own Business" alarm?




Amber alerts have value when the abductor is a complete stranger, but when the perp is known, Dad, in your example, it's a domestic situation. Who knows? Maybe Mom was the molester in this case and evil Dad is just trying to save his daughter but Molestin' Mommy calls cops and calls it a kidnapping anyway.

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:34:53 AM EDT
There are criteria for issuing an Amber Alert. Of course don't let the facts interupt your uneducated rant. A former boyfriend isn't a family member and hardly counts as a domestic dispute.


Law Enforcement agency confirms that the child is under the age of 18.

Law Enforcement agency believes the abduction poses a credible threat of immediate danger of serious bodily harm or death to the child.

There is sufficient descriptive information about the child, the suspect and/or the circumstances surrounding the abduction to believe that activation of the Alert will help locate the child.

A law enforcement agency determines that the child is not a runaway and has not been abducted as a result of a family abduction, unless the investigation determines that the child is in immediate danger of serious bodily harm or death.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:44:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
There are criteria for issuing an Amber Alert. Of course don't let the facts interupt your uneducated rant. A former boyfriend isn't a family member and hardly counts as a domestic dispute.


Law Enforcement agency confirms that the child is under the age of 18.

Law Enforcement agency believes the abduction poses a credible threat of immediate danger of serious bodily harm or death to the child.

There is sufficient descriptive information about the child, the suspect and/or the circumstances surrounding the abduction to believe that activation of the Alert will help locate the child.

A law enforcement agency determines that the child is not a runaway and has not been abducted as a result of a family abduction, unless the investigation determines that the child is in immediate danger of serious bodily harm or death.



Having just attended a 3-day class on child abductions put on by the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, let me be the first to say you are absolutely correct. As are the other posters who said that the program has saved a lot of children from a terrible fate.

Without knowing anything else, the Amber Alert described by the first poster is absolutely legit. If I show up at a former girlfriend's house and kidnap her child, why in the world would that be OK? "It's a domestic--handle it between yourselves..." WTF? Could it be that I'm angry I was dumped and am lashing out at the ex by stealing and harming someone she does care about?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 9:50:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 9:51:21 AM EDT by glenn_r]
Here's the latest way to help find abducted, endangered children:



Register today

Do it for the children

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 10:19:28 AM EDT
***dawns tin foil hat*****

Ya know, if they had micro chips that acted like a lo-jack system that they could put in a human body... It might deter kidnappings... You could put it in your child & only the parents would know where the chip was so it couldnt be cut out, and if a parent was the abductor, you could track em down before they could cut the thing out anyway...

Hell, if they just SAID that it was available & that it was estimated that X % of parents put them in thier kids, it would probably make a kidnapper think twice (kind of like all law abiding citizens having guns)

But.... And this is a big butt (no pun intended).... The govenment would then be able to track your ass no matter where you went... And that might not be a good thing. Besides, some might consider such a thing to be the mark of the beast (like some do with SSN & the like)


**** removes tin foil hat *****
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 1:51:47 PM EDT
Fortunately, the Amber Alert system is administered by folks that do not have their head up their ass.

Work a multiple child homicide sometime and tell me it's better to "Mind your own business"
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:27:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By glenn_r:

Originally Posted By SWIRE:
There are criteria for issuing an Amber Alert. Of course don't let the facts interupt your uneducated rant. A former boyfriend isn't a family member and hardly counts as a domestic dispute.


Law Enforcement agency confirms that the child is under the age of 18.

Law Enforcement agency believes the abduction poses a credible threat of immediate danger of serious bodily harm or death to the child.

There is sufficient descriptive information about the child, the suspect and/or the circumstances surrounding the abduction to believe that activation of the Alert will help locate the child.

A law enforcement agency determines that the child is not a runaway and has not been abducted as a result of a family abduction, unless the investigation determines that the child is in immediate danger of serious bodily harm or death.



Having just attended a 3-day class on child abductions put on by the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children, let me be the first to say you are absolutely correct. As are the other posters who said that the program has saved a lot of children from a terrible fate.

Without knowing anything else, the Amber Alert described by the first poster is absolutely legit. If I show up at a former girlfriend's house and kidnap her child, why in the world would that be OK? "It's a domestic--handle it between yourselves..." WTF? Could it be that I'm angry I was dumped and am lashing out at the ex by stealing and harming someone she does care about?




Good to know.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:36:17 PM EDT
Amber Alert is a good program.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:37:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 2:40:09 PM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
seems like 99% of them are family squabbles, custody battles, etc

Case in point:

----------------

http://www.wral.com/news/8263022/detail.html

3-Year-Old Georgia Boy Found Safe In Raleigh; Amber Alert Canceled

POSTED: 12:22 am EST March 26, 2006
UPDATED: 1:07 pm EST March 26, 2006

JONESBORO, Ga. -- A three-year-old boy was found unharmed early Saturday after being abducted by his mother's former boyfriend from a restaurant in Hampton, authorities said.

<snip>

-----------------

quit wasting my time Amber Alert people!



If you ever have a child abducted, we will be sure to tell the authorities not use the Amber Alert since you think it is a waste of time.

BTW, in the case you mentioned, it is the mom's former boyfriend who has no custody claim. He is not the father, not her husband, not even the stepfather. The mom left NJ to get away from him.

Perhaps you should get some facts before you bloviate.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:47:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Amber alerts have value when the abductor is a complete stranger, but when the perp is known, Dad, in your example, it's a domestic situation. Who knows? Maybe Mom was the molester in this case and evil Dad is just trying to save his daughter but Molestin' Mommy calls cops and calls it a kidnapping anyway. That makes sense. You think your wife might be molesting your child so you grab the kid and run. Why not just call the police?



Yeah, we all know that a family member never molests or murders their own child. In reality, an overwhelming majority of offenders are family members.

You are playing the "what if" game? What if mom was the molester? What if Dad didn't do it? What if, what if, what if,.....?

If the police have information that a child has been abducted, do you think they should work on the case or just blow it off since it "may" be nothing to it? All an Amber Alert does is gets citizens to help out in the search. If they find the child and everything is okay, does that bother you that the police even looked into the situation?

What you are suggesting is that the police do not take action if they believe a child has been abducted. I do not think that is what the citizens want. I find it strange that it troubles you to see a news flash of an abducted child, knowing that it may not be true.

If you have any children and God forbid, one was kidnapped, I am sure you wouldn't call the police, otherwise you might trouble the public with those annoying Amber Alerts.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 2:53:36 PM EDT
There have been plenty of cases where they have been used in domestic situations. In a hurry to get the alert out, they sometimes slack off on the beforehand investigation side. Women trying to cause trouble in divorces, or women cheating on their husbands that get alerts issued on their boyfriend who has the child because she was supposed to meet them later, but was confronted by her husband.

Its due to cases like these that, at least my state, has become very hesitant to issue the alerts. I think they almost have to have non-family witnesses to a hostile abduction now.

The problem when they were issued all of the time, is the cry wolf effect. Most people just start ignoring them. I mean does anyone listen to the words after the beeps on TV for instance? No, you just assume its a test because they do it all of the time. If they didn't test it all of the time, you would immediately go to you TV to see WTF is going on with it otherwise, making it more useful.


The unfortunate issue in a growing percentage of divorces is false abuse, sexual abuse, or child pornography charges. Defrauding the amber alert is no different.

And don't forget, a lot of these "former boyfriends" turn out to be the fathers of the children, little facts that the mothers leave out.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:19:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gunman0:
And don't forget, a lot of these "former boyfriends" turn out to be the fathers of the children, little facts that the mothers leave out.



In this case, he is NOT the father, he has no custodial claim at all.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:19:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Perhaps you should get some facts before you bloviate.



Another Factor Watcher
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:21:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Perhaps you should get some facts before you bloviate.



Another Factor Watcher



Nah, not really.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:32:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tvc184:

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Amber alerts have value when the abductor is a complete stranger, but when the perp is known, Dad, in your example, it's a domestic situation. Who knows? Maybe Mom was the molester in this case and evil Dad is just trying to save his daughter but Molestin' Mommy calls cops and calls it a kidnapping anyway. That makes sense. You think your wife might be molesting your child so you grab the kid and run. Why not just call the police?



Yeah, we all know that a family member never molests or murders their own child. In reality, an overwhelming majority of offenders are family members.

You are playing the "what if" game? What if mom was the molester? What if Dad didn't do it? What if, what if, what if,.....?

If the police have information that a child has been abducted, do you think they should work on the case or just blow it off since it "may" be nothing to it? All an Amber Alert does is gets citizens to help out in the search. If they find the child and everything is okay, does that bother you that the police even looked into the situation?

What you are suggesting is that the police do not take action if they believe a child has been abducted. I do not think that is what the citizens want. I find it strange that it troubles you to see a news flash of an abducted child, knowing that it may not be true.

If you have any children and God forbid, one was kidnapped, I am sure you wouldn't call the police, otherwise you might trouble the public with those annoying Amber Alerts.



The stuff in blue isn't mine fwiw.

I think Amber Alerts should be for when a stranger kidnaps a child. Not someone known to the other party.

This thread's caused me to research the criteria for Amber Alerts. Criteria are per http://www.amberalert911.com/faq.php


ach program, whether local, state, or regional, establishes its own AMBER Plan criteria; however, the National Center for Missing & Exploited Children suggests three criteria that should be met before an Alert is activated.

1. Law enforcement confirms a child has been abducted.
2. Law enforcement believes the circumstances surrounding the abduction indicate that the child is in danger of serious bodily harm or death.
3. There is enough descriptive information about the child, abductor, and/or suspects vehicle to believe an immediate broadcast alert will help.

Age criteria vary from plan to plan. Most plans currently in effect consider activation for a child under the age of eighteen. For the specifics on the criteria for your area Click Here.

All plans are limited to abducted children, and, therefore, exclude children believed to be parental abductions, runaways or thrown away children from home.



One of my original points.

The genesis of my Amber Alert rant was from reading stories such as http://news8austin.com/content/your_news/default.asp?ArID=157581

"Ten years after the missing child alerts began in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, the Amber Alert program has been adopted in all 50 states. In some, it's being used for reasons beyond its original purpose of helping find children abducted by strangers.

Ohio, Texas and other states have opened Amber Alert to include abductions by non-custodial parents or family members if the child is in immediate danger of injury or death.

Although they don't advocate a narrower use of the system, some law enforcement officials are concerned that Amber Alerts will be overused and therefore become less effective.

Texas Department of Public Safety spokeswoman Tela Mange said there's reason for worry. In her words, “You don't want to be in a position where you get Amber fatigue where people say, 'It never ends, another Amber Alert,' and they tune out.''

-----------

Keep Amber Alerts back to their original focus is my point. The child in my original example was not "a stranger".

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 3:34:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:05:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Amber alerts have value when the abductor is a complete stranger, but when the perp is known, Dad, in your example, it's a domestic situation.





It doesn't matter if its a stranger or not.

The value in the Amber Alert is getting whatever information is known about the abducter, even their name if known, out to cops and the general public at large quickly. That's its value.

We had one back in PA where the abducter was known. Name, address, vehicle, the works. They put out an Amber Alert and the van was spotted by a regular old driver who followed the van and called the cops.

Don't matter if its a stranger. The value is in the quick distribution of information.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:10:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
The Amber Alert began when Amber Haggerman was abducted and murdered a few miles from here (Arlington, TX). The local PDs started using it with great success around the Mid-Cities area (between Dallas and Fort Worth). It was effective enough to become adopted state-wide. The successes continued and many children can thank their continued existance by its implementation.

It became nationally recognized not by its failure but due to the number of children quickly recovered from kidnappers.

It does save lives and absolutely serves a purpose. I'm glad we have it.


+1000,

Does it really annoy you that much that a few minutes of your radio time is taken up by the alerts?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 4:32:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:

Originally Posted By JC_:


You did notice that the kid was abducted? I believe that's a crime about everywhere and if it was my kid, I would be very pleased it did. I do not care who's radio program it interupted.



The original Amber was abducted by a stranger, in this case it was an ex, the perp is known like it seems in 99% of them. Different circumstances. Domestic disputes set off my Mind My Own Business alarm.





Someday, when it's YOUR kid, your wacked out ex takes and you never see again......


Well, you might think differently.

Link Posted: 3/27/2006 5:49:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 5:49:58 PM EDT by AssaultRifler]

Originally Posted By JB69:

Someday, when it's YOUR kid, your wacked out ex takes and you never see again......


Well, you might think differently.




True. But there's 800,000 (2000 a day) see http://www.amberalertsonline.com/ reported cases of kids missing/taken/abducted a year. Until then I dont want to deal with 799,999 Amber Alerts on my cell phone if 99.999% of them aren't true Amber types as the program was intended.

You all win. I'll stick to reading the back of milk cartons.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:01:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/27/2006 8:01:49 PM EDT by FAIL-SAFE]

Originally Posted By 82ndAbn:
The Amber Alert began when Amber Haggerman was abducted and murdered a few miles from here (Arlington, TX). The local PDs started using it with great success around the Mid-Cities area (between Dallas and Fort Worth). It was effective enough to become adopted state-wide. The successes continued and many children can thank their continued existance by its implementation.

It became nationally recognized not by its failure but due to the number of children quickly recovered from kidnappers.

It does save lives and absolutely serves a purpose. I'm glad we have it.



Bravo, sir!

When an Amber Alert is activated, all TV and radio stations broadcast crucial information.

The TXDOT signs on the freeways also broadcast the info.

The Amber Alert is truly one of the great tools in recovering abducted children.

Amber Haggerman would be proud, god rest her soul.
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:12:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JC_:

And the 1% it is not is well worth it in my opnion..





Would you rather the cops be out issuing speeding tickets, or raiding homes & shooting dogs?
Link Posted: 3/27/2006 8:21:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AssaultRifler:
Keep Amber Alerts back to their original focus is my point. The child in my original example was not "a stranger".



I havent got a single problem with them expanding it to cover non-custodials, parents, ex's, etc. I dont see how you could. Any of them are as capable of murder as any stranger when it comes to children. Do the names Andrea Yates, Deena Slosher, Susan Smith, Darly Routier, mean anything to you? They all killed their kids. What about that ex boyfriend that kidnapped his ex and her child in DeSoto, Texas? He was willing to get into a rolling gun battle with the police with a small child and his ex in the vehicle.

It will become less effectove when there are people with the mind set that nothing bad can happen to a child who is abducted during a domestic quarrel. Stranger or not, its still an abduction. Abductions can end tragically. Anything, including flooding the airwaves with info, that will save a child is worth it.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 1:47:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By JC_:

And the 1% it is not is well worth it in my opnion..





Would you rather the cops be out issuing speeding tickets, or raiding homes & shooting dogs?



Perhaps it is because I just woke up... I do not know what you are getting at...

My posts are pro Amber alert. I have a couple little monsters myself that mean more to me than I ever thought anything could.
Link Posted: 3/28/2006 1:54:37 AM EDT
It worked in my state.
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