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Posted: 3/25/2006 3:35:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 4:03:54 PM EDT by lippo]
Just think of it...if you own a business and hire an illegal alien, and get busted, you just gave up your firearm Rights! Instant felon!

Millions of Americans are poised to lose their firearm Rights at the stroke of a pen when this immigration bill goes through.

Didn't think about that did you?

This is a Anti-gun wet dream. I bet the Democrats are going to join with the Republicans in an effort to screw Americans once again.




And I am sure, there won't be any police officers or federal agents that will enforce that, taking away peoples guns and putting them in jail....

While I disagree with hiring illegals, it shouldn't be a felony for the business owner. They should be penalized, but a felony? Not like they killed someone.


*


New title of thread should read...


IF YOU HIRE ILLEGALS, YOU ARE ABOUT TO GET REALLY SCREWED!
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:38:06 PM EDT
Oh sheet!!!
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:39:42 PM EDT
Damn!!! I wanted illegals to be armed for the coming revoloution!!

Guess we'll just have to peacably give them our country instead of them taking it by force.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:41:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Arkansas_Rocketman:
Damn!!! I wanted illegals to be armed for the coming revoloution!!

Guess we'll just have to peacably give them our country instead of them taking it by force.




The illegals will still be armed...THE AMERICANS THAT HIRE THEM WILL BE DISARMED!

READ IT AGAIN.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:46:25 PM EDT
Here's an idea........ Don't hire the sunzabitches!!!!!
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:48:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By oulufinn:
Here's an idea........ Don't hire the sunzabitches!!!!!



what a novel approach. take your head out of your greedy ass for half a second and realize what you're doing to your country when you hire someone who doesnt speak english "no questions asked"
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:48:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:
While I disagree with hiring illegals, it shouldn't be a felony for the business owner. They should be penalized, but a felony? Not like they killed someone.



Started drinking early tonight, eh?
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:49:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By oulufinn:
Don't hire the sunzabitches!!!!!

+1 bazillion
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:49:38 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:55:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 3:56:10 PM EDT by lippo]

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By lippo:
While I disagree with hiring illegals, it shouldn't be a felony for the business owner. They should be penalized, but a felony? Not like they killed someone.



Started drinking early tonight, eh?




So do you think someone should lose their firearm Rights if they hire a subcontractor who hired an illegal? Say you hire a sub-contractor to do your electrical while you are building your house and are acting as your own builder, they bring in an illegal, you and the sub get "instant" felon and lose your firearm Rights. And you didn't even know that you had an illegal.

Don't think it could get that bad? Better check the language before you po-po it. If the democrats figure this out, half of the people on this site would lose their firearm Rights. Probably including you.

Drinking yeah...right.


Don't hire illegals... + 1,000,000,000,000

But you could get screwed over and not even know it.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:56:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:
Just think of it...if you own a business and hire an illegal alien, and get busted, you just gave up your firearm Rights! Instant felon!

Millions of Americans are poised to lose their firearm Rights at the stroke of a pen when this immigration bill goes through.

Didn't think about that did you?

This is a Anti-gun wet dream. I bet the Democrats are going to join with the Republicans in an effort to screw Americans once again.




And I am sure, there won't be any police officers or federal agents that will enforce that, taking away peoples guns and putting them in jail....

While I disagree with hiring illegals, it shouldn't be a felony for the business owner. They should be penalized, but a felony? Not like they killed someone.


aaaawwwwhhhhhhhh, you poor wittle business owner.
You're right it shouldn't be a felony, THEY SHOULD BE SHOT ON SIGHT!!!!
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:58:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:
Just think of it...if you own a business and hire an illegal alien, and get busted convicted, you just gave up your firearm Rights! Instant felon!

Millions of Americans are poised to lose their firearm Rights at the stroke of a pen when this immigration bill goes through.

Didn't think about that did you?

This is a Anti-gun wet dream. I bet the Democrats are going to join with the Republicans in an effort to screw Americans once again.




And I am sure, there won't be any police officers or federal agents that will enforce that, taking away peoples guns and putting them in jail....

While I disagree with hiring illegals, it shouldn't be a felony for the business owner. They should be penalized, but a felony? Not like they killed someone.





Fixed it for ya. There's a long way to go from 'busted' to convicted felon.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:59:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 4:00:09 PM EDT by lippo]

Originally Posted By Colltt:

Originally Posted By lippo:
Just think of it...if you own a business and hire an illegal alien, and get busted, you just gave up your firearm Rights! Instant felon!

Millions of Americans are poised to lose their firearm Rights at the stroke of a pen when this immigration bill goes through.

Didn't think about that did you?

This is a Anti-gun wet dream. I bet the Democrats are going to join with the Republicans in an effort to screw Americans once again.




And I am sure, there won't be any police officers or federal agents that will enforce that, taking away peoples guns and putting them in jail....

While I disagree with hiring illegals, it shouldn't be a felony for the business owner. They should be penalized, but a felony? Not like they killed someone.


aaaawwwwhhhhhhhh, you poor wittle business owner.
You're right it shouldn't be a felony, THEY SHOULD BE SHOT ON SIGHT!!!!




I don't have employees.

And sure, I'd rather see them flogged.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:02:27 PM EDT
they are just hiring people that Americans won't hire to to do the jobs that Americans won't do.


I like the idea. Then all the asshole contractors that tell me they are going "hunting" for half of November and all of December won't be able to.


To add to that........I'd love for my area to be the first in line for this. I see more illegals working construction that it literally makes me sick. And to think that they are paying these guys squat and charging an arm and a leg Premium construction cost like it was done by all skilled labor.
I think I just prematurely..........

Kudo's for this new Bill. I like it and can't wait for folks to start getting their "rights" taken.
Like a previous poster said.......Dont hire them. That would take care of most of the illegal rants here on the boards as well. I'm all for it. In my line of work, we don't have the luxury of hiring cheap undocumented labor and charge premium. We actually work for our money (read: not fucking people over)
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:06:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By quijanos:
they are just hiring people that Americans won't hire to to do the jobs that Americans won't do.


I like the idea. Then all the asshole contractors that tell me they are going "hunting" for half of November and all of December won't be able to.


To add to that........I'd love for my area to be the first in line for this. I see more illegals working construction that it literally makes me sick. And to think that they are paying these guys squat and charging an arm and a leg Premium construction cost like it was done by all skilled labor.
I think I just prematurely..........

Kudo's for this new Bill. I like it and can't wait for folks to start getting their "rights" taken.
Like a previous poster said.......Dont hire them. That would take care of most of the illegal rants here on the boards as well. I'm all for it. In my line of work, we don't have the luxury of hiring cheap undocumented labor and charge premium. We actually work for our money (read: not fucking people over)



I concur.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:08:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By oulufinn:
Here's an idea........ Don't hire the sunzabitches!!!!!



I can't believe it took until the fourth post for this to come out. Maybe they NEED to be made felons in order for the fuckers to learn NOT to support the got-damn illegals.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:09:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By oulufinn:
Here's an idea........ Don't hire the sunzabitches!!!!!



I can't believe it took until the fourth post for this to come out. Maybe they NEED to be made felons in order for the fuckers to learn NOT to support the got-damn illegals.




Good point.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:10:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 4:10:52 PM EDT by gardenWeasel]
Home Depot is gonna to need to widen their sidewalks.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:10:46 PM EDT

It really isn't difficult to have an applicant fill out an I-9 form when hiring them. Just check the documents make your copy and put 'em to work. As far as hiring a contractor to do work: It's HIS responsibility to do the checking on his employees not the firm hiring the contractor. These greedy asshats who hire illegals can kiss my ass and sell me their guns for cheap , I don't hire the bastards...
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:10:50 PM EDT
If they start rounding up illegals for real and with some backbone to it... I predict a civil war in this country within a year. Illegals and their supporters attacking everyone else.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:10:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 4:11:29 PM EDT by whs78]

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By oulufinn:
Here's an idea........ Don't hire the sunzabitches!!!!!



I can't believe it took until the fourth post for this to come out. Maybe they NEED to be made felons in order for the fuckers to learn NOT to support the got-damn illegals.



Hey man you are forgetting, they got money the laws don't apply to them. And besides it isn't like their hunting rifles or shotguns are nearly as dangerous as our "black" rifles.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:14:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:
If they start rounding up illegals for real and with some backbone to it... I predict a civil war in this country within a year. Illegals and their supporters attacking everyone else.



We'll have their supporter's guns...... Brang it!!
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:19:38 PM EDT
Heck yeah, maybe people won't take that chance of hiring an illegal!!!!!. And hire me.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:19:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 4:20:49 PM EDT by LVMIKE]

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By lippo:
While I disagree with hiring illegals, it shouldn't be a felony for the business owner. They should be penalized, but a felony? Not like they killed someone.



Started drinking early tonight, eh?




So do you think someone should lose their firearm Rights if they hire a subcontractor who hired an illegal? Say you hire a sub-contractor to do your electrical while you are building your house and are acting as your own builder, they bring in an illegal, you and the sub get "instant" felon and lose your firearm Rights. And you didn't even know that you had an illegal.

Don't think it could get that bad? Better check the language before you po-po it. If the democrats figure this out, half of the people on this site would lose their firearm Rights. Probably including you.

Drinking yeah...right.


Don't hire illegals... + 1,000,000,000,000

But you could get screwed over and not even know it.



Thats like buying food from a place employing an illegal in the back and getting a felony conviction for it.

You're paying for a service from that subcontractor and it's their duty to ensure the legality of their workers. Now if you knowingly allow the illegal to work your house, then it would be your ass.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:19:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By vanilla_gorilla:

Originally Posted By oulufinn:
Here's an idea........ Don't hire the sunzabitches!!!!!



I can't believe it took until the fourth post for this to come out. Maybe they NEED to be made felons in order for the fuckers to learn NOT to support the got-damn illegals.



I would also love to see something like a nonnegotiable 25K a person fine to go along with this
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:21:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LVMIKE:

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By lippo:
While I disagree with hiring illegals, it shouldn't be a felony for the business owner. They should be penalized, but a felony? Not like they killed someone.



Started drinking early tonight, eh?




So do you think someone should lose their firearm Rights if they hire a subcontractor who hired an illegal? Say you hire a sub-contractor to do your electrical while you are building your house and are acting as your own builder, they bring in an illegal, you and the sub get "instant" felon and lose your firearm Rights. And you didn't even know that you had an illegal.

Don't think it could get that bad? Better check the language before you po-po it. If the democrats figure this out, half of the people on this site would lose their firearm Rights. Probably including you.

Drinking yeah...right.


Don't hire illegals... + 1,000,000,000,000

But you could get screwed over and not even know it.



Thats like buying food from a place employing an illegal in the back and getting a felony conviction for it.




No it isn't. And I bet language like that will be in there.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:22:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:
Illegals and their supporters attacking everyone else.


Fuck 'em. We're the ones with the guns (and the ability to aim when firing).
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:27:03 PM EDT
Pretty simple to me. Dont hire illegal aliens.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:36:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:
Drinking yeah...right.



So you are huffing spraypaint in a paperbag? Because you certainly aren't making any sense.

If you hired illegal aliens, you would be 'penalized' under the proposed legislation. There is no proposed language in any versions that would make it a 'felony'. The 'felony' in the bill passed by the House is on the illegals themselves, not their employers.

Also, I don't think you know what an 'employer' is. Staying with your example of building my own home: If I was acting as general contractor, and hired illegals myself, then yes, I would be penalized. If the electrician in your example hired them, then guess who gets penalized?

The House version is good stuff. We don't need various nitwits running around like Chicken Little, trying to scare people off from needed immigration reform.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:37:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:
,,,at the stroke of a pen when this immigration bill goes through.


It won't go through.

Not unless you can get 50,000 people to counter-march in SUPPORT of it and get all the milquetoast RINOs in the Senate to go change their loyalty and support it.

Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:38:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By lippo:
Drinking yeah...right.



So you are huffing spraypaint in a paperbag? Because you certainly aren't making any sense.

If you hired illegal aliens, you would be 'penalized' under the proposed legislation. There is no proposed language in any versions that would make it a 'felony'. The 'felony' in the bill passed by the House is on the illegals themselves, not their employers.

Also, I don't think you know what an 'employer' is. Staying with your example of building my own home: If I was acting as general contractor, and hired illegals myself, then yes, I would be penalized. If the electrician in your example hired them, then guess who gets penalized?

The House version is good stuff. We don't need various nitwits running around like Chicken Little, trying to scare people off from needed immigration reform.




That's not what they said on the news tonight.

So call Fox and complain.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:41:47 PM EDT

Someone help me out here for a sec, isn't it already illegal to hire an illegal?
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:42:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By XJ:
Someone help me out here for a sec, isn't it already illegal to hire an illegal?



You would think so.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:42:45 PM EDT
How about because it should be a felony?

Making it a simple misdemeanor isn't going to be much of a deterrent for some... big deal, pay a small fine, then hire more illegals.

Some people seem to think that large scale employers and contractors are the main problem. They are to an extent, but the asshats who hire a few day laborers for a few hours or day or two are just as guilty and should be punished to the full extent of the law.

Need a new deck built? Yard mowed? House cleaned? Do it your damn self or take the time to hire from a reputable business.

I don't know the full language of the law, but as long as the employer takes reasonable precautions WRT hiring practices, then there shouldn't be any criminal penalties.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:47:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:
That's not what they said on the news tonight.



Ya. Sure.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:51:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LoginName:
How about because it should be a felony?

Making it a simple misdemeanor isn't going to be much of a deterrent for some... big deal, pay a small fine, then hire more illegals.

Some people seem to think that large scale employers and contractors are the main problem. They are to an extent, but the asshats who hire a few day laborers for a few hours or day or two are just as guilty and should be punished to the full extent of the law.

Need a new deck built? Yard mowed? House cleaned? Do it your damn self or take the time to hire from a reputable business.

I don't know the full language of the law, but as long as the employer takes reasonable precautions WRT hiring practices, then there shouldn't be any criminal penalties.



at the very VERY least it should carry a significant (5 figure) fine to make it fianancially unwise to hire an illegal. as it stands now, employers of illegals come out ahead even if they get busted because they pay far less of a fine than they make by hiring the illegal in the first place
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:52:03 PM EDT
1) no ex post facto laws. If they make it a felony to hire an illegal alien, it is from the date of enactment on. If you hire one after it goes into effect you have chosen to break the law and deserve whatever consequences there are.

2) Crimes require action plus intent. Intent can be inferred from such things as deliberately avoiding knowing the truth, but there is a "reasonable man" standard, and a jury as a filter.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:58:52 PM EDT
I think making it a felony is perfectly fine.

I also think most felons should be allowed to own guns. Do I care if Martha Stuart, Bill Clinton, or some Enron executive owns a gun? Not really. Only those convicted of a violence related felony shouldn't be allowed to own a gun.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:01:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 5:01:33 PM EDT by lippo]

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By lippo:
That's not what they said on the news tonight.



Ya. Sure.



Did you hear it? I did. Maybe they slipped up, but I heard it. That's why I posted this thread.

You are probably right and there won't be felony language in there. But Fox news said different tonight.

I'll wait to see what the Senate agrees too. I bet they vote it down.

And yeah, there should be a really stiff fine for it. Jail time is proposed in the bill if I am correct. Good!

Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:08:10 PM EDT
What about the TAX they want to empose on them, This is a good point here because our Government will proffit from them being here,
I for one would like to see our borders tightened, and more Americans employed in our country.
My suggestion:if you caint speaky englishy GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE, GO ON, GO BACK HOME

I also don't want to pay higher taxes because you are serving jail time for hiring a MUTT.

BRING BACK THE HANGINGS, CUT OFF THE FINGERS OF THE THIEVES



WHERE IN THE HELL IS THE DUKE??

In 30yrs we will come to be known as CHMEXAJAPAIANS
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:11:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bigcraig:

Originally Posted By oulufinn:
Don't hire the sunzabitches!!!!!

+1 bazillion


+1 Google

Beat that!
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:12:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 5:24:42 PM EDT by AlvinYorkII]
Let me ask a question, If the illegals worked as hard to solve their own country's problems as they do to try to get here Illegally we wouldn't have the problems we dowould we? But no they just leave their fucked up countrys to come here and start in on ours. Don't hire them, don't house them, don't stress our school systems to educate them and maybe they'll stop coming. My feelings are that if you willingly hire an illegal you are just as culpable (more so) as the illegal is and you should lose your rights and be jailed.


Alvin
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:31:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By lippo:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:

Originally Posted By lippo:
While I disagree with hiring illegals, it shouldn't be a felony for the business owner. They should be penalized, but a felony? Not like they killed someone.



Started drinking early tonight, eh?




So do you think someone should lose their firearm Rights if they hire a subcontractor who hired an illegal? Say you hire a sub-contractor to do your electrical while you are building your house and are acting as your own builder, they bring in an illegal, you and the sub get "instant" felon and lose your firearm Rights. And you didn't even know that you had an illegal.

Don't think it could get that bad? Better check the language before you po-po it. If the democrats figure this out, half of the people on this site would lose their firearm Rights. Probably including you.

Drinking yeah...right.


Don't hire illegals... + 1,000,000,000,000

But you could get screwed over and not even know it.



Ah flawed logic. When I generaled my house project, I did not "hire" anyone nor did I employ anyone. I established a conract for service from various companies, drywall, framers, etc. Any responsibility for using illegals falls squarely on the company, not those using the companies services. I paid all my subcontacters in cash, as it ensured lower prices, but am I responsible to the IRS if the subcontractor doesn't file their earnings? NO. I paid them for a service, their business practices are their responsibility not the person they provide a service to. Now if i went out and hired an illegal as a nanny...then yes I would be screwed. However, with what you describe, no.
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