Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Posted: 3/25/2006 2:11:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 2:14:08 AM EDT by mike1972]
Which would you say is better for a SHTF rifle.... Considering ruggedness, parts replacement, ease of maintenance.

I like the AR10 due to being able to have two uppers for it. One for CQC & the other for longer work. Plus, you would then have two bolts, uppers, ect. In case one went down.

But then again, I'm not so sure the AR is as rugged as the M1A.

Wasn't there an issue with AR mags?

Can ya help a guy out?

ETA: The search function didn't help much with this one.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 2:16:39 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 2:30:03 AM EDT by COZ]
AR10 for me! I've never had any problems with mine.

I also never heard of a mag problem? They are converted M1A mags anyway.

I have the AR10T and it WILL keep a 1/2" group at 100 yards. It is a great rifle.

Edited to add: I would have BOTH in a heartbeat and still may do that sometime.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 2:18:32 AM EDT
M1A for me, feels better in my hands.

IBTP
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 2:21:39 AM EDT
I would get an HK91 or a FAL.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 2:40:52 AM EDT
Yo Ho Ho, it's an M14 for me. AAAAAARRRGH!!!

In the long run I think it will be more durable as it was designed for that caliber. And it is a very nicely balanced weapon.

Now that decent rails are being made for it, optics are a wash and the M14 battle sights are hard to beat.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 2:45:42 AM EDT
Get both.
And a FAL just in case.
Might as well in toss in a 1919A4 for good measure.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 2:46:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STG77:
I would get an HK91 or a FAL.



I agree- have read enough about mag problems and mag prices with the AR-10, as well as overall concerns about the lug design not being strong enough to endure the .308's power, while it worked for 5.56 caliber guns.

I would choose the M1-A, but as makers like Springfield Armory are now using cast parts, I've read about plenty of people having early failures.

I think a DSA FAL would be the best choice on the consumer market now, as many HK's come from shady sources these days as well.

Link Posted: 3/25/2006 2:50:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NME:
Get both.
And a FAL just in case.
Might as well in toss in a 1919A4 for good measure.




+1
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:01:07 AM EDT
FAL
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:08:41 AM EDT
Well damn fellas, now ya got me goin & checkin out the FAL threads ;)
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:14:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mike1972:
Well damn fellas, now ya got me goin & checkin out the FAL threads ;)




Look into a DSA STG58A, they are the best deal out there in FALs.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:15:32 AM EDT
Get both!

(someone had to)

Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:16:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bonk2029:
Get both!

(someone had to)



Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:16:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STG77:

Originally Posted By mike1972:
Well damn fellas, now ya got me goin & checkin out the FAL threads ;)




Look into a DSA STG58A, they are the best deal out there in FALs.



Thanks STG77... I am checking them out in another thread I found on here now....
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:17:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fxntime:

In the long run I think it will be more durable as it was designed for that caliber.




BWAAAHAAHAAHAHAAAA!!!!
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:19:26 AM EDT
Without a doubt, FAL.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:21:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By STG77:

Originally Posted By mike1972:
Well damn fellas, now ya got me goin & checkin out the FAL threads ;)




Look into a DSA STG58A, they are the best deal out there in FALs.



Yep.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:23:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 3:27:22 AM EDT by mike1972]

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:

Originally Posted By fxntime:

In the long run I think it will be more durable as it was designed for that caliber.




BWAAAHAAHAAHAHAAAA!!!! hr


TheOtherDave, are you saying that you don't feel the M1A is more rugged?

Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to get everyones opinion on this one, as my 308 purchase will be my first, and also my last. I want one 308 for SHTF & range fun, and the abilty for descent long distance shooting, as well as being able to use it for CQC. I know that no gun will fill both bills perfectly. I am looking for something that will be a good balance between the two. Considering having to lug it around & all.

ETA: the DSAs' are looking pretty good right now, but I am really liking the idea of a M1A, or an AR for the mod-ability of it. Is any one rifle truly that much better than the other, or is it more of a preference thing? (like Ford & Chevy?)..... I'm a GM guy myself, but I do like some Fords too lol.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:26:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mike1972:

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:

Originally Posted By fxntime:

In the long run I think it will be more durable as it was designed for that caliber.




BWAAAHAAHAAHAHAAAA!!!!



TheOtherDave, are you saying that you don't feel the M1A is more rugged?

Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to get everyones opinion on this one, as my 308 purchase will be my first, and also my last. I want one 308 for SHTF & range fun, and the abilty for descent long distance shooting, as well as being able to use it for CQC. I know that no gun will fill both bills perfectly. I am looking for something that will be a good balance between the two. Considering having to lug it around & all.



I think TODave was just amused at the other poster's comment, considering the AR10 was also designed for .308, even before the first AR15 existed.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:27:13 AM EDT
Get both!






In reality you won't go wrong with either one-including a FAL.Try to shoot all of them then pick which ever feels best to you.AR10,M1A,HK91(or clone),FAL-they are all fine battle rifles and all will serve you fine.

We can argue all day long about the merits/drawbacks of all these weapons but the bottom line is they all are fine weapons.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:29:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GreyGhost:
Get both!

img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Hawk4357/M1A/AR10Bipod.jpg


img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/Hawk4357/M1A/M1A4.jpg

In reality you won't go wrong with either one-including a FAL.Try to shoot all of them then pick which ever feels best to you.AR10,M1A,HK91(or clone),FAL-they are all fine battle rifles and all will serve you fine.

We can argue all day long about the merits/drawbacks of all these weapons but the bottom line is they all are fine weapons.



Ok, that is pretty much what I was thinking. Just wanted to check with some of you guys first as I have never had a 308 yet.

Thank ya kindly gentlemen
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:29:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 3:36:22 AM EDT by gus]

Originally Posted By GreyGhost:
We can argue all day long about the merits/drawbacks of all these weapons but the bottom line is they all are fine weapons.



Whole heartedly agree.


ETA: You really need to shoot them all to know which one to buy for you. No matter which you choose, stay with a reputable high end builder/manufacturer. It costs more up front, but it's definately money well spent.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:31:53 AM EDT


Keep a complete spare headspaced M14 bolt on hand and you're good to go.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:37:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Different:
www.imageseek.com/m1a/gallery/albums/civilian/Mrs_Different_s_M14.sized.jpg

Keep a complete spare headspaced M14 bolt on hand and you're good to go.



Different, that is a nice looking rifle right there.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:57:09 AM EDT
AR10 - can't be beat for lightweight, CQB, and optics mounting capapbility as far as .308 battle rifles go.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:01:48 AM EDT
Neither. I would use my FAL. Never had a problem with it yet, and it's as rugged as they come.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:04:28 AM EDT
FAL: the Right Arm of the Free World.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:20:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 4:35:01 AM EDT by COZ]

Originally Posted By ED_P:

Originally Posted By STG77:
I would get an HK91 or a FAL.



I agree- have read enough about mag problems and mag prices with the AR-10, as well as overall concerns about the lug design not being strong enough to endure the .308's power, while it worked for 5.56 caliber guns.

I would choose the M1-A, but as makers like Springfield Armory are now using cast parts, I've read about plenty of people having early failures.

I think a DSA FAL would be the best choice on the consumer market now, as many HK's come from shady sources these days as well.




You sound like you dont know squat about the AR10.

The AR design is inherantly accurate all by itself. Go to a Highpower match. The majority are/have switched over to AR's. The first AR invented was a .308 (AR180), It was changed to .556 to allow Soldiers to carry more ammo.

As far as the FAL's I don't know, But I will add I've never seen anyone with one at a rifle match.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:24:40 AM EDT
Having owned and shot extensively the HK91, a few M1As. a couple AR10s and several FALs, I would definitely choose a FAL.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:37:13 AM EDT
Just got done doing some searching over on Battlerifles.com

Lots of threads about the AR10 being unreliable.... None about the M1A... the FAL doesn't look like a very comfortable ergonomic rifle from the pics (but I wouldn't make that call til I actually got to handle one) I am used to the AR15, so that was why I was thinking AR10 (ergoes & such).

But after searching the posts on the other board, I now have doubts about AR10 reliability (and that is an important issue as this would be a SHTF gun)
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:43:27 AM EDT
M1a. There is no way that an AR10 under harsh field conditions would survive as long as an M1a.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:44:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mike1972:
Just got done doing some searching over on Battlerifles.com

Lots of threads about the AR10 being unreliable.... None about the M1A... the FAL doesn't look like a very comfortable ergonomic rifle from the pics (but I wouldn't make that call til I actually got to handle one) I am used to the AR15, so that was why I was thinking AR10 (ergoes & such).

But after searching the posts on the other board, I now have doubts about AR10 reliability (and that is an important issue as this would be a SHTF gun)



I've had several jams with an M1A with crappy surplus ammo that both my FAL and HK91 fed with no problem. It's not as reliable as some people think IMHO. As for ergonomics, the FAL is a very comfortable gun to shoot.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:48:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 4:51:07 AM EDT by 53vortec]

Originally Posted By mike1972:
Just got done doing some searching over on Battlerifles.com

Lots of threads about the AR10 being unreliable.... None about the M1A... the FAL doesn't look like a very comfortable ergonomic rifle from the pics (but I wouldn't make that call til I actually got to handle one) I am used to the AR15, so that was why I was thinking AR10 (ergoes & such).

But after searching the posts on the other board, I now have doubts about AR10 reliability (and that is an important issue as this would be a SHTF gun)



We've also had member here have their SA M1A bolts disentigrate. There can be problems with any weapon platform, that's why you should test your weapon extensively.

My AR10 had an extraction issue when I got it. Since that has been fixed it has been a absolute slut when it comes to what it'll shoot without any issues - Mil Surp, Winchester, Remington, Black Hills. Hell, I've even bump fired the damn thing - it won't so much as stutter.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:01:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 53vortec:

Originally Posted By mike1972:
Just got done doing some searching over on Battlerifles.com

Lots of threads about the AR10 being unreliable.... None about the M1A... the FAL doesn't look like a very comfortable ergonomic rifle from the pics (but I wouldn't make that call til I actually got to handle one) I am used to the AR15, so that was why I was thinking AR10 (ergoes & such).

But after searching the posts on the other board, I now have doubts about AR10 reliability (and that is an important issue as this would be a SHTF gun)



We've also had member here have their SA M1A bolts disentigrate. There can be problems with any weapon platform, that's why you should test your weapon extensively.

My AR10 had an extraction issue when I got it. Since that has been fixed it has been a absolute slut when it comes to what it'll shoot without any issues - Mil Surp, Winchester, Remington, Black Hills. Hell, I've even bump fired the damn thing - it won't so much as stutter.



Hmmmmm, so she's a slut you say..... does she have a sister h.gif
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:02:57 AM EDT
This thread sure makes me glad I bought my M1A about 13 years ago, while they were still mostly made from surplus parts. The only thing non-USGI on mine was the flashhider, which I replaced. (I also want to add that I bought mine at a WalMart for just under $800)

Glad I have it, it's a great rifle. Of course, I'm glad I have my AR15's, and am working on my first FAL. But don't forget the 590A1, it could come in handy too.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:03:58 AM EDT
I too wanted a .308 semi.

In the end I bought a USGI parts kit and had Ron Smith make me a M1a.

Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:06:47 AM EDT
I'll have to go with the AR10...I have a DPMS Panther .308 that shoots 1/2" clover-leaf "same-hole" groups at 100 yards with a 10x scope.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:10:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LongueCarabine:
This thread sure makes me glad I bought my M1A about 13 years ago, while they were still mostly made from surplus parts. The only thing non-USGI on mine was the flashhider, which I replaced. (I also want to add that I bought mine at a WalMart for just under $800)



The times, they are a changin'.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:17:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 5:18:19 AM EDT by GreyGhost]

Originally Posted By GreyGhost:


In reality you won't go wrong with either one-including a FAL.Try to shoot all of them then pick which ever feels best to you.AR10,M1A,HK91(or clone),FAL-they are all fine battle rifles and all will serve you fine.

We can argue all day long about the merits/drawbacks of all these weapons but the bottom line is they all are fine weapons.




Forgot to add that I meant older,mostly USGI M1A's were fine weapons.I've heard too many horror stories about the current crop of Springfield M1A's(few GI parts) to chance buying one.

I've got all of the ones listed-an AR10A4,M1A-1993 all TRW,FAL in the Israeli heavy barrel configuration and an HK91.In a SHTF scenerio I'd grab the M1A 1st but only because it's "feels" more comfortable to me.In no way whatsoever would I feel bothered if I had to use one of the other weapons instead.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 8:00:24 AM EDT
I love FALs.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 8:47:48 AM EDT
Go M1A if U can find a decent mostly GI gun.

If not, FAL is the way to go.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 10:59:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 11:04:09 AM EDT by ED_P]

Originally Posted By COZ:

Originally Posted By ED_P:

Originally Posted By STG77:
I would get an HK91 or a FAL.



I agree- have read enough about mag problems and mag prices with the AR-10, as well as overall concerns about the lug design not being strong enough to endure the .308's power, while it worked for 5.56 caliber guns.

I would choose the M1-A, but as makers like Springfield Armory are now using cast parts, I've read about plenty of people having early failures.

I think a DSA FAL would be the best choice on the consumer market now, as many HK's come from shady sources these days as well.




You sound like you dont know squat about the AR10.

The AR design is inherantly accurate all by itself. Go to a Highpower match. The majority are/have switched over to AR's. The first AR invented was a .308 (AR180), It was changed to .556 to allow Soldiers to carry more ammo.

As far as the FAL's I don't know, But I will add I've never seen anyone with one at a rifle match.



Maybe I don't know squat about the AR-10, but unlike you, I pay attention to posters here who do know squat, and then some. Some pretty knowldegeable people here, (if I'm not mistaken, Brouhaha, of the Ammo oracle among them, but I may have him confused with another knowldegeable poster) have raised concern about the internal design of the AR-10 and the number and strength of the locking lugs being an issue. And yes, I'm well aware of the AR-10 having been a .308 design at first, once again proving I at least listen to those who know squat.

If you need more expert opinion from someone who knows more than "squat" about the AR-10, ask Bushmaster about their AR-10's, and why they aren't carrying them anymore.

Link Posted: 3/26/2006 12:48:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gus:

Originally Posted By mike1972:

Originally Posted By TheOtherDave:

Originally Posted By fxntime:

In the long run I think it will be more durable as it was designed for that caliber.




BWAAAHAAHAAHAHAAAA!!!!



TheOtherDave, are you saying that you don't feel the M1A is more rugged?

Not trying to stir the pot, just trying to get everyones opinion on this one, as my 308 purchase will be my first, and also my last. I want one 308 for SHTF & range fun, and the abilty for descent long distance shooting, as well as being able to use it for CQC. I know that no gun will fill both bills perfectly. I am looking for something that will be a good balance between the two. Considering having to lug it around & all.



I think TODave was just amused at the other poster's comment, considering the AR10 was also designed for .308, even before the first AR15 existed.



Yep!
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 2:06:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 2:21:59 AM EDT by 9245]

Originally Posted By ED_P:

Originally Posted By COZ:

Originally Posted By ED_P:

Originally Posted By STG77:
I would get an HK91 or a FAL.



I agree- have read enough about mag problems and mag prices with the AR-10, as well as overall concerns about the lug design not being strong enough to endure the .308's power, while it worked for 5.56 caliber guns.

I would choose the M1-A, but as makers like Springfield Armory are now using cast parts, I've read about plenty of people having early failures.

I think a DSA FAL would be the best choice on the consumer market now, as many HK's come from shady sources these days as well.




You sound like you dont know squat about the AR10.

The AR design is inherantly accurate all by itself. Go to a Highpower match. The majority are/have switched over to AR's. The first AR invented was a .308 (AR180), It was changed to .556 to allow Soldiers to carry more ammo.

As far as the FAL's I don't know, But I will add I've never seen anyone with one at a rifle match.



Maybe I don't know squat about the AR-10, but unlike you, I pay attention to posters here who do know squat, and then some. Some pretty knowldegeable people here, (if I'm not mistaken, Brouhaha, of the Ammo oracle among them, but I may have him confused with another knowldegeable poster) have raised concern about the internal design of the AR-10 and the number and strength of the locking lugs being an issue. And yes, I'm well aware of the AR-10 having been a .308 design at first, once again proving I at least listen to those who know squat.

If you need more expert opinion from someone who knows more than "squat" about the AR-10, ask Bushmaster about their AR-10's, and why they aren't carrying them anymore.




The origional AR-10 took 7.62 NATO yes, but it was also a completely different weapon, the Modern "AR-10" is just a big AR-15 that takes 7.62 NATO, the origional AR-10 was a different weapon that just looked like an AR-15, while there were alot of simularitys, there was also some noticeable differences for one namely that the origional AR-10 could be magazine or BELT-FED[/b....

Don't believe me?, heres an early Armalite promotional video, pay particular attention near the end of the video starting at about 12:34:

media.putfile.com/ar10promotionalvideo
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 2:23:58 AM EDT
FAL
Hands down
More rugged, less expensive (weapon and mags) and totally reliable
You will not regret it
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:26:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 9245:

Originally Posted By ED_P:

Originally Posted By COZ:

Originally Posted By ED_P:

Originally Posted By STG77:
I would get an HK91 or a FAL.



I agree- have read enough about mag problems and mag prices with the AR-10, as well as overall concerns about the lug design not being strong enough to endure the .308's power, while it worked for 5.56 caliber guns.

I would choose the M1-A, but as makers like Springfield Armory are now using cast parts, I've read about plenty of people having early failures.

I think a DSA FAL would be the best choice on the consumer market now, as many HK's come from shady sources these days as well.




You sound like you dont know squat about the AR10.

The AR design is inherantly accurate all by itself. Go to a Highpower match. The majority are/have switched over to AR's. The first AR invented was a .308 (AR180), It was changed to .556 to allow Soldiers to carry more ammo.

As far as the FAL's I don't know, But I will add I've never seen anyone with one at a rifle match.



Maybe I don't know squat about the AR-10, but unlike you, I pay attention to posters here who do know squat, and then some. Some pretty knowldegeable people here, (if I'm not mistaken, Brouhaha, of the Ammo oracle among them, but I may have him confused with another knowldegeable poster) have raised concern about the internal design of the AR-10 and the number and strength of the locking lugs being an issue. And yes, I'm well aware of the AR-10 having been a .308 design at first, once again proving I at least listen to those who know squat.

If you need more expert opinion from someone who knows more than "squat" about the AR-10, ask Bushmaster about their AR-10's, and why they aren't carrying them anymore.




The origional AR-10 took 7.62 NATO yes, but it was also a completely different weapon, the Modern "AR-10" is just a big AR-15 that takes 7.62 NATO, the origional AR-10 was a different weapon that just looked like an AR-15, while there were alot of simularitys, there was also some noticeable differences for one namely that the origional AR-10 could be magazine or BELT-FED[/b....

Don't believe me?, heres an early Armalite promotional video, pay particular attention near the end of the video starting at about 12:34:

media.putfile.com/ar10promotionalvideo



Wow, so ArmaLite made a Shrike for the AR-10 - I guess that means that the AR15 was designed to feel belt fed as well? Also, when you say "modern" AR-10, are you referring to the ArmaLite, Bushmaster/RRA, DPMS, or KAS weapons? Your statement that they're all just "a big AR-15" would infer that they are all the same, which they are not.

Could you also please elaborate on any of the actual mechanical differences between the original ArmaLite AR-10 and AR-15, besides the charging handle, magazine body, and furniture?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:30:23 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:32:52 PM EDT
I vote for the FAL.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:34:55 PM EDT
I always see FAL's mentioned, what's the story behind them? I never see them in gun stores (at least I never notice them). Are they built new or on older parts? Reliable? Any info would be great.
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:44:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/26/2006 4:56:27 PM EDT by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By ED_P:
If you need more expert opinion from someone who knows more than "squat" about the AR-10, ask Bushmaster about their AR-10's, and why they aren't carrying them anymore.





Bushmaster never made an AR-10. They unwisely called it a BAR-10 originally, but they figured out the lawyers would be the only ones to get rich off that misstep.

Neither did DPMS. They were smart enough NEVER to call it an AR-10, or use AR-10 in it's nomenclature. It has gone by LR-308 or AP4

In fact, the two that closely resemble the original AR-10 are the KAC SR-25 family and the Armalite AR-10B family.

The KAC offering was enhanced by Eugene Stoner himself, and the fellows at Knight's

The Armalite {Eagle Arms} offering, was enhanced by one of Armalite/Fairchild's engineers, and Mark Westrom.

The Bushmaster .308 was the creation of Rock River Arms, and is currently being sold as a RRA product -- the LAR-10. I suspect the lawyers will likely get rich before the name gets changed, or an agreement reached over RRA's choice of nomenclature.

You might know that AR-10 is trademark protected -- and that trademark is held by Armalite {Eagle Arms}.

BTW, Remington makes an autoloader .308 -- should we call it an AR-10 too? Or maybe we should call all PTR-91's -- HK91's? How hard is it to refer to the different makers by their chosen nomenclature?
Link Posted: 3/26/2006 4:53:42 PM EDT
My FN FAL or G3 are my go to 308 cals.
Arrow Left Previous Page
Page / 3
Top Top