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Posted: 3/24/2006 6:22:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 1:28:03 PM EDT by ggllggll]
I just watched a couple of the traffic stops gone bad video's circulating on the site tonight.

An eye for an eye may not be a sign of the times now days, but it sure comes to mind.

Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:25:01 PM EDT
no murder is murder reguardless of what the victim happens to do for a living
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:25:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2006 6:26:22 PM EDT by Hylton]
No. A human life is a human life regardless of what’s pinned on their chest
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:25:32 PM EDT
In a word no . And fuck any one that says a Police Officers life is worth more than mine just because he is a police officer.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:26:43 PM EDT
no....cops are people....Killing one should meet the same punishment as killing anyone else.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:27:42 PM EDT
The previou posters pretty well covered it.

Murder is murder.

death penalty and death penalty are both fine solutions.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:27:43 PM EDT
Absolutely not.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:28:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By yekimak:
no....cops are people....Killing one should meet the same punishment as killing anyone else.


Correct, it is a chosen profession after all.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:28:44 PM EDT
I say no as well.

If ALL murders were prosecuted like cop killers and manhunts were conducted for ALL murderers, like they are for cop killers the world would be a safer place.

Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:29:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2006 6:30:02 PM EDT by ChrisJ]
Mixed feelings - a life is a life, the shooting of a Police Officer shows deliberate intent to kill with zero regard for the law. If a person has no value for human life or the law, or the persons upholding the law then the criminal needs to spend no more time in society.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:29:30 PM EDT
No. Murder is murder is murder. Police aren't special. Killing a judge, a cop, a soldier, a political figure, or a clerk at the grocery should net you the same punishment.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:34:19 PM EDT
No, so special laws for LEO's.

What annoys me is how someone can kill a celebrity (like John Lennon, Robert Kennedy, etc.) and get jailed forever, but someone can kill a convenience store clerk and be out in less than ten years.

Oh, and high visibility killers like David Berkowitz never getting let out, but repeat violent offenders that never get seen anywhere but on your local news getting the prison revolving door treatment. Sorry for going slightly off-topic.

Scott

Disclaimer, I don't like R. Kennedy or Lennon, just using them as an example.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 6:41:23 PM EDT
No.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:01:11 PM EDT
I tend to think so, because of the special circumstances of the situation. You and I and John Doe aren't paid by the government to enforce laws and confront people who would love to kill us on a potentially daily basis. LE is charged with that task, so I think there should be a stiffer punishment for violating that higher expectation.

Let me put it in a different light: When you murder a random person, you "only" defy two things: a person's right to life, and the laws that protect that right. If you kill a cop, however, those same things are violated, except the difference is that in addition, you also - in the worst possible way - violate/destroy that which protects both of the aforementioned items. It's like taking it to the next level, violating 3/3 instead of 2/3. The same should apply for some other non-LE fields that are charged with using up-to deadly force to protect American social institutions/concepts, like on-duty military servicemen.

Personally, I say that the death penalty itself should be awarded equally for any (elligible) murder victims, regardless if they are LE/military/normal civilian. However, if I had my way, people who killed LE officers/servicemen would get a harsher method of death. What I always imagined is, once a year, we take all the cop murderers and lock them all naked in a bare concrete room with a steel door, and totally forget about them until a year later, when we send in the next batch (without cleaning the "leftovers" out)

Of course, that's just what I think. Please don't flame if you simply disagree, that's fine if you do.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:09:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By krpind:
I say no as well.

If ALL murders were prosecuted like cop killers and manhunts were conducted for ALL murderers, like they are for cop killers the world would be a safer place.




+1, Amen, well said.

Burn them ALL! Not just the ones who murder officers. Murder is murder no matter what uniform the victim wears.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:14:06 PM EDT
People are people regardless of race, age, or profession.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:15:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2006 7:17:01 PM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
no murder is murder reguardless of what the victim happens to do for a living



Except when the murder is done on a representative of our authority as a people. Our consent is the basis of government. Our permission is the basis of law. Thus those who enforce the law are enforcing our will.

When someone kills a police officer they aren't just killing a person, they are striking at our right to govern society.

As such, the penalty should be stiffer.

When someone shoots a cop, they aren't just shooting the cop. They are shooting at you and me. They are shooting at the foundation of our society.

But in a sense you are right: Murderers ought to suffer the death penalty. Murderers ought to be hunted down like dogs.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:20:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/24/2006 7:21:28 PM EDT by triburst1]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:
Except when the murder is done on a representative of our authority as a people. Our consent is the basis of government. Our permission is the basis of law. Thus those who enforce the law are enforcing our will.

When someone kills a police officer they aren't just killing a person, they are striking at our right to govern society.

As such, the penalty should be stiffer.



What about lawyers, judges, animal control, corrections, etc? They are all enforcing laws as well. For that matter, what about congressmen, city council, etc. They are writing our "will." What about ordinary citizens who elect the officials and whose taxes pay the salaries of all of the above?
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:33:55 PM EDT
No , but their should be special punishment for a LEO who breechs trust and kills those they swore to protect. The level of responsiblilty is much higher for the one taking an oath.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:54:17 PM EDT
The stiffer penalty for killing a LEO would not apply if the LEO were not on duty or acting in an official capacity when killed. The stiffer penalties are there because killing a person is generally considered a crime against that person. Killing a LEO while acting in that capacity is considered a crime against all of society. It does not exist because the law, or LEO's for that matter, feel that the life of a LEO is worth more than a non LEO. The penalties are stiffer because killing a LEO is considered an attack on our civilized society.

Flame on..........................................
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 7:55:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NavajoGunOwner:
No , but their should be special punishment for a LEO who breechs trust and kills those they swore to protect. The level of responsiblilty is much higher for the one taking an oath.



Beat me to it.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:05:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NavajoGunOwner:
No , but their should be special punishment for a LEO who breechs trust and kills those they swore to protect. The level of responsiblilty is much higher for the one taking an oath.



Good thing that's not a double standard
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:15:31 PM EDT
there shouldnt be a question: you kill someone, you die. simple as that. doesnt matter if they're LE, .mil, a homeboy, a redneck, whatever..... you kill somone, you get the chair
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:16:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
there shouldnt be a question: you kill someone, you die. simple as that. doesnt matter if they're LE, .mil, a homeboy, a redneck, whatever..... you kill somone, you get the chair



I think you mean murder someone.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:17:19 PM EDT
correct. manslaughter is different... but murder.... INTENTIONALLY killing someone: there should be no question
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:18:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bullitt3401:
No, so special laws for LEO's.

What annoys me is how someone can kill a celebrity (like John Lennon, Robert Kennedy, etc.) and get jailed forever, but someone can kill a convenience store clerk and be out in less than ten years.

Oh, and high visibility killers like David Berkowitz never getting let out, but repeat violent offenders that never get seen anywhere but on your local news getting the prison revolving door treatment. Sorry for going slightly off-topic.

Scott

Disclaimer, I don't like R. Kennedy or Lennon, just using them as an example.


*cough* ted Kennedy *cough*
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:23:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
no murder is murder reguardless of what the victim happens to do for a living



Except when the murder is done on a representative of our authority as a people. Our consent is the basis of government. Our permission is the basis of law. Thus those who enforce the law are enforcing our will.

When someone kills a police officer they aren't just killing a person, they are striking at our right to govern society.

As such, the penalty should be stiffer.

When someone shoots a cop, they aren't just shooting the cop. They are shooting at you and me. They are shooting at the foundation of our society.

But in a sense you are right: Murderers ought to suffer the death penalty. Murderers ought to be hunted down like dogs.



I don't believe in the type of situation you have in many states where a peon can be murdered and the perp gets 25 years out in 10, but murder a cop in the same manor and you get the needle. While you are correct that it represents a different level of violation against society, there is no greater harm that you can do to an individual than take their life in cold blood. Justice for that individual and all of society tells me there should not be a sentance for that that allows a man to walk the streets again under any circumstances.
Link Posted: 3/24/2006 8:24:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By phylodog:

Originally Posted By NavajoGunOwner:
No , but their should be special punishment for a LEO who breechs trust and kills those they swore to protect. The level of responsiblilty is much higher for the one taking an oath.



Good thing that's not a double standard



Glad you agree with me...
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:10:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NavajoGunOwner:

Originally Posted By phylodog:

Originally Posted By NavajoGunOwner:
No , but their should be special punishment for a LEO who breechs trust and kills those they swore to protect. The level of responsiblilty is much higher for the one taking an oath.



Good thing that's not a double standard



Glad you agree with me...



I don't think he's agreeing with you, Private Pyle. What you wrote is ridiculous.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:17:09 AM EDT
No.

Police should be treated just the same as the rest of us.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:20:23 AM EDT
Is a cop's life worth more than yours?
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:32:26 AM EDT
As someone who was a police officer of 16 years and prior military of 8 years, I can say without a doubt that if you kill a police officer, you should be put to death. For all of you who feel that a police officer's life is worth the same as a regular citizen, feel free to call your elected official, convenience store clerk, or your best friend Bubba next time someone perpetrates a crime against you. Then you will see how much justice you get.

Someone who kills a police officer will not think twice about ending your life. Flame away.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:34:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
no murder is murder reguardless of what the victim happens to do for a living



I concur.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 3:41:21 AM EDT
a crime = a crime. shouldn't matter who it was committed against (we're all supposed to be equal in the eyes of the law)
exceptions: anyone placed in a position of trust who violates that trust should be executed on the spot. (leo, fed, mil and politics)
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:18:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RED_5:
a crime = a crime. shouldn't matter who it was committed against (we're all supposed to be equal in the eyes of the law)
exceptions: anyone placed in a position of trust who violates that trust should be executed on the spot. (leo, fed, mil and politics)



That is so hypocritical. You expect me to believe that my life as a police officer is the exact same as an ordinary citizen yet you would hold me to a higher standard of punishment for violating "that trust". Granted, I have no love for bad cops and if found guilty should expect to suffer the full weight of the law, but if you want me to believe that for one second this double standard has any validity your sadly mistaken.

When you have taken the oath, dealt with the horrors that are perpetrated against civilians, and did it for the pay that is meagerly given for the services rendered then talk to me about your double standards.

Yeah I CHOSE this profession, if it weren't for people like me and the countless thousands out there fighting for YOUR rights, this country would be reduced to utter and complete anarchy. it sounds like a bunch of people have had run ins with some cops that weren't completely ethical, or maybe you just feel like the justice system let you down. You know what life ain't fair, deal with it and move on.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:29:45 AM EDT
These threads make me laugh

Sean
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:30:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By doom1430:
For all of you who feel that a police officer's life is worth the same as a regular citizen, feel free to call your elected official, convenience store clerk, or your best friend Bubba next time someone perpetrates a crime against you. Then you will see how much justice you get.



That makes no sense at all. I wouldn't call a convenience store clerk to do a cops job any more than I would call a cop to clean my pool or remove a tumor from my body. Everyone's job contributes to society in some way and it should have nothing to do with receiving equal justice under the law. A heart surgeon saves a hell of a lot more lives than a meter maid. Does that meen that you should get a stiffer penalty for killing a doctor?
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:33:58 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:40:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:
Is a cop's life worth more than yours?



And, as so often happens, my old buddy Rodent misses the point entirely.

As JW said, the murder of a Police Officer is an attack upon society itself, not just the murder of an individual.

Therefore, society is right in extracting a stiffer penalty for this crime.

It has absolutely nothing to do with "Is a cop's life worth more than yours?"
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:42:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Napoleon_Tanerite:
there shouldnt be a question: you kill someone, you die. simple as that.



No way is it as simple as that.

Some people need kill'in.

People could come up with hundreds of examples where premeditated revenge killing
would be acceptable with most people here.

Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:47:07 AM EDT
Well, if cops get special treatment when a crime is commited against them, then they should definately have special charges against them when THEY commit a crime...since they are the ones that should be enforcing law
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:47:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By Rodent:
Is a cop's life worth more than yours?



And, as so often happens, my old buddy Rodent misses the point entirely.

As JW said, the murder of a Police Officer is an attack upon society itself, not just the murder of an individual.

Therefore, society is right in extracting a stiffer penalty for this crime.

It has absolutely nothing to do with "Is a cop's life worth more than yours?"



How often do we hear in the news of a Police Officer violating a law
(drunk driving, excessive force, bad shooting, accepting bribes, etc)
where the officer isn't punnished as harshly as the rest of socitety would be?

Police Officers, in general, get the best of both worlds.

Crimes against them are dealt with more harshly, but crimes committed by them are often ignored.

Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:47:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcantu:
Well, if cops get special treatment when a crime is commited against them, then they should definately have special charges against them when THEY commit a crime...since they are the ones that should be enforcing law



Damn, you beat me in on that point.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:48:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By Rodent:
Is a cop's life worth more than yours?



And, as so often happens, my old buddy Rodent misses the point entirely.

As JW said, the murder of a Police Officer is an attack upon society itself, not just the murder of an individual.

Therefore, society is right in extracting a stiffer penalty for this crime.

It has absolutely nothing to do with "Is a cop's life worth more than yours?"



By that rationale, you would have to include ALL government employees.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:49:43 AM EDT
Nope. A cop's life is worth no more than anyone else's. Period.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:56:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

How often do we hear in the news of a Police Officer violating a law
(drunk driving, excessive force, bad shooting, accepting bribes, etc)
where the officer isn't punnished as harshly as the rest of socitety would be?

Police Officers, in general, get the best of both worlds.

Crimes against them are dealt with more harshly, but crimes committed by them are often ignored.




You are almost 100% wrong.

Police Officers caught committing crimes are dealt with more harshly than non-LEOs. At least that is true here in Texas.

And, on a related note, good cops support the harsher treatment of bad cops. No one hates bad cops more than the 99% that are good cops.

Some of you guys are so filled with hatred for Police Officers you will just spout any silly stuff as if it was the truth.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:57:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ggllggll:
I just watched a couple of the traffic stops gone bad video's circulating on the site tonight.

Got me thinking about how low that truly is. Sick to my stomach about it.

An eye for an eye may not be a sign of the times now days, but it sure comes to mind.




No...

Everyone who commits1st deg murder should get the same sentance ->
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:57:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By Rodent:
Is a cop's life worth more than yours?



And, as so often happens, my old buddy Rodent misses the point entirely.

As JW said, the murder of a Police Officer is an attack upon society itself, not just the murder of an individual.

Therefore, society is right in extracting a stiffer penalty for this crime.

It has absolutely nothing to do with "Is a cop's life worth more than yours?"



By that rationale, you would have to include ALL government employees.



I, and society, include all government employees that are enforcing the laws that society has chosen to govern itself with.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:58:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By junebug68:
Nope. A cop's life is worth no more than anyone else's. Period.



Another guy that doesn't understand the issue.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 6:00:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:

Originally Posted By doom1430:
For all of you who feel that a police officer's life is worth the same as a regular citizen, feel free to call your elected official, convenience store clerk, or your best friend Bubba next time someone perpetrates a crime against you. Then you will see how much justice you get.



That makes no sense at all. I wouldn't call a convenience store clerk to do a cops job any more than I would call a cop to clean my pool or remove a tumor from my body. Everyone's job contributes to society in some way and it should have nothing to do with receiving equal justice under the law. A heart surgeon saves a hell of a lot more lives than a meter maid. Does that meen that you should get a stiffer penalty for killing a doctor?



I wasn't trying to be glib or sarcastic in my statement. And of course it's absurd to call a clerk to do a cop's job. I'm trying to convey my sense of frustration that cops are always held to a higher standard when something goes wrong and when they get caught doing something wrong they should burn like a witch in Massachusetts. I'm just tired of all the is my life better worth more than yours arguments. It's like saying a Hollywierd star's life is more important than your average joe.

Police officers are the first and last line of defense in a world that is slowly but surely sinking into a shit hole state. After that, it's go for your won and hope for the best.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 6:03:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 11:05:49 AM EDT by mags]
Live in the real world of the USA justice system guys. Most cops take care of ea other, like a fraterinity. Fraternal order of police, I guess they are a fraternity!ferternal,fer-ter-nal Hence the special treatment.Kill your wife=20yrs. Kill a cop.....well, the CO's will put you in gen pop as a informant/cop and you'll be looking over your shoulder after a few beatings till your dead or released.
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