Deputies to deploy plate ID system
System compares car tags, databases to expose criminals
Friday, March 24, 2006
CAROL ROBINSON
News staff writer
The Jefferson County sheriff's department will equip several patrol cars with high-tech cameras capable of scanning thousands of license plates an hour.

The system, which could be operational within four to six weeks, compares the information on the tag against a database and alerts deputies quickly if a car is stolen or is somehow linked to a drug dealer, wanted felon or convicted pedophile from Alabama, Tennessee or Georgia. Deputies could then pull the driver over.

The device can be used to patrol the interstates or major thoroughfares. Deputies also can target a certain event or venue, such as a Legion Field football game, high-profile court trial or a controversial march or rally to see if criminals are there. Authorities said the system can be used in a range of investigations, from a rash of auto thefts to homicide and anti-terror efforts.

Sheriff's authorities said the technology is revolutionary.

"We recognize that criminals use the roadways and the highways," Sheriff Mike Hale said, "and this is going to have an impact."

The Jefferson County Commission is expected next week to approve $60,000 to outfit three patrol cruisers. The department will be the first law enforcement agency in the Southeast to use the system, said Trish Alverson, a partner at B&W Automation, which distributes the Automatic License Plate Recognition system.

Major police agencies already signed on include Los Angeles, Houston and Reno, Alverson said.

"Honestly, we have vendors come to us all of the time with different technology touting what they can do with this or that," sheriff's spokesman Sgt. Randy Christian said. "But when they demonstrated this to us, we were so excited. This is great stuff."

The computerized system is linked to the Alabama Criminal Justice Information Center databases, which store information from Alabama law enforcement agencies, agencies in other states and the FBI's National Crime Information Center.

As the patrol officer passes by, the system automatically reads the license plates and cross-references them with criminal databases. If the tag number is among those sought, an alarm will sound and direct the officer to pull over the car or further investigate. The computer screen in the police cruiser records the time, date and coordinates of where the license plate was scanned.

The system also stores the license plate information it has read, so investigators if needed can go back and find whether a vehicle was at a certain place at a certain time.

"We'll be able to move them anywhere we want in Jefferson County," Christian said. "The potential is really untapped right now."



Whoa!

Quoted: As the patrol officer passes by, the system automatically reads the license plates and cross-references them with criminal databases. If the tag number is among those sought, an alarm will sound and direct the officer to pull over the car or further investigate. The computer screen in the police cruiser records the time, date and coordinates of where the license plate was scanned. The system also stores the license plate information it has read, so investigators if needed can go back and find whether a vehicle was at a certain place at a certain time. "We'll be able to move them anywhere we want in Jefferson County," Christian said. "The potential is really untapped right now." Whoa!

What you said.

Hmm...

What do you think about it Bama?

Now that I think about it, unless the source code is admitted into court following the arrest of a perp while using this... they will probably get off.

Wow. I like it.

I don't see it as being a problem , as far as I know...if you are driving on the roads...you are fair game to have your plate run at anytime.  I have seen cops riding behind other cars (and my own) one lane over and 15-20 feet behind running the plates as they drive.
If there is a camera or something that just grabs all the plates that it sees and runs them...even better. No one says that a cop can't run your plate at anytime, anywhere. It's not an invasion of privacy.  besides, it'll seriously help with stolen plates, being on cars driven around that are not otherwise doing anything to draw suspicion.

I'm sure I'll be flamed.... go right ahead.

No Expert

I don't like it by default (tin foil, big brother, unintended consequences, yada yada), but I'm open to being convinced otherwise. I just don't have the energy to sit down and figure out why I might support such a thing right now.

Park & rides & mall parking lots are gonna see a lot of action in the future.

The system also stores the license plate information it has read, so investigators if needed can go back and find whether a vehicle was at a certain place at a certain time.

That part right there I would object to.  That amounts to a citizen tracking system and I will never support such a thing.  The rest of it I would have no objection to.  Why do they always want to turn it into a tracking system?

One Saturday afternoon while waiting for over an hour at a road block where the city cops were randomly searching cars, my father joked that in a 100 years (this around 1955) we'd have to file "driveplans" with the police in order to be allowed to travel.  We're moving in that direction inch by inch.  The judicial system has already decided we do not have a right to travel by driving our own car on a public road.

While I don't like this scanner, I think it's a much better use of police time and budget than random searches (aka road blocks).  The scanner doesn't delay you from several minutes to over an hour like the road blocks.  In other words, this thing won't make you late to work.  It also doesn't often false positive like the animals the cops use to search the cars at roadblocks.z

Automatic plate-scanning, I don't have a problem with. Keeping a record to track all vehicles, though, is a DEFINITE problem for me.

I have no objections to the system. Lets face it the plate is public and is there for ID purposes. We all know the cops can and do run the plates.

Quoted: The system also stores the license plate information it has read, so investigators if needed can go back and find whether a vehicle was at a certain place at a certain time. That part right there I would object to.  That amounts to a citizen tracking system and I will never support such a thing.  The rest of it I would have no objection to.  Why do they always want to turn it into a tracking system?

+1

The next system will read the bar codes off our foreheads. This new system only prepares us for that.

How much do you want to bet they're going to stop using it pretty quick because they end up pulling over a ton of minorities and illegals and someone complains?

On the tracking bit:

Is there already a way to determine where an officer was when he ran a plate while driving? If so, how far back can a department reasonably search?

Crusing parking lots, ball games, bars, hotels/motels all that scanning and logging going on.

Wild.

I still don't know what to think about it yet.

Quoted: I have no objections to the system. Lets face it the plate is public and is there for ID purposes. We all know the cops can and do run the plates.

Yes but do they log the date, time, and location of your vehicle every time they drive by and then store that in a computer until the end of time?

The article doesn't say what type of information will be displayed to the officer.  Will it show only outstanding warrants?  Or will the system show past speeding tickets or criminal records?  For example say someone had a DUI at one point and their plate is scanned, if it notifies the officer that the person had a DUI a couple years ago and let's say it's now 2:05am is that just cause to pull over the vehicle to see if the driver has been drinking?  I'm sure the officer could make up some excuse like you didn't use your blinker or your license plate light is out as a "legitimate excuse" for the stop.

This system is brought to you by the good folks at Remington Arms co. www.remingtonelsag.com/

Quoted: This system is brought to you by the good folks at Remington Arms co. www.remingtonelsag.com/

Pretty interesting, they also have fixed system that I guess could be set on the side of the road or at an event. This was snipped from the site:




Unique Capabilities of the Mobile System

• License Plate Reading (LPR) system operates independently of officer on board (in the background) - enhancing officer safety by keeping hands on the wheel and eyes on the scene.
 
• Works at patrol and highway speeds - oncoming differential speeds of in excess of 120MPH and passing speeds in excess of 75MPH+ (truly mobile-to-mobile). LPR translates the read plate data into a digital image, checks versus an onboard hotlist, and returns an alarm back to the operator in milliseconds for appropriate interdiction.
 
• Cameras are able to read up to 4 lanes of traffic with a single vehicle. Efficient High Speed cameras allow officers to read 8-10,000 plates in just one shift with just a single vehicle mount.
 
• Compact design allows reader/scanner to be fit in light bars on top of cars or as a standalone unit attached by magnetic clips. Unit is easily and rapidly transferable to a variety of police vehicles.
 
• Processor Unit is the size of a small box for easy storage in trunk of a vehicle.
 
• Low Power consumption: the unit requires 10W, 12V DC to function
 
• The LPR system has built-in capability to communicate with a police operations center for alarm notification and throughout the day for database update.
 

   

if it makes the job easier, that's great, but this stuff tends be be used for peripheral "projects" later on that i would not just agree with.

new haven CT put in all those cameras all over the city a few years back for the same reason. to find stolen cars and catch car theives. everyone though is was a grand idea until they started getting speeding tickets in the mail...

Here in Marco Island, FL the City Council has just approved
installing Plate scanners on all vehicles entering the Island on the bridge.
This will alert MIPD of any Sexual Offenders or parole violators, suspended licenses etc.
going into town. OUTSTANDING idea! Keeps the dirtbags out  

Quoted: i am against it. while the license plates are state property and an LEO can pretty much run them at will, it does require them effort and normally that comes with a REASON to run the plate. this to me seems to violate probable cause for search. Yes i veiw the random running of plates as a for of search. LEO's as i recall <it's been 20 years> are highly frowned upon for running plates and id's for no reason. I don't see this as any different other than it's automated for the department. running the plate automatically just for the hell of it i have a problem with. ESPECIALLY when they are logging and STORING the locations of where the vehicle is and has been. i am on the road frequently and have accounts in some VERY bad areas. I also end up responding to those accounts at weird hours for service calls. i am not really thrilled about the state keepeing a database of my movements through cracked out neighborhoods at 2am due to my job.

No P/C or reasonable suspicion is required. I randomly run plates on a nightly basis. The result is usually suspended/cancelled/expired registration or warrant/narcotics arrests.
You are absolutely entitled to you point of view but it is an acceptable practice.

Quoted: Here in Marco Island, FL the City Council has just approved installing Plate scanners on all vehicles entering the Island on the bridge. This will alert MIPD of any Sexual Offenders or parole violators, suspended licenses etc. going into town. OUTSTANDING idea! Keeps the dirtbags out

Alert the po po about the undersireables coming into town.

Hmmm. Big Brother?

First off, the data has always been stored. You can thank the hysteria over Racial Profiling (and other pet liberal causes) for that.  I think it's for 90 days locally.

Secondly, I don't need a reason to run your plate. In fact, from the moment I get in the car and start driving around I'm running plates with one hand.  Couple hundred a night.

The description is a little misleading howver.  It may have the capability of running thousands of plates, but your average officer is not going to have time to read them all, nor is your CAD system going to have the capability to process thousands of LP checks from each car.  Heck, on the weekends returns can take 10 minutes per check.

I don't see much point in cruising parking lots.  You can't arrest someone when they are not with the car you just ran, and I'm not going to sit up on one vehicle all night waiting for Joe Snuffy with traffic warrants.

We now return you to your normally scheduled tinfoil.  

Quoted: i am against it. while the license plates are state property and an LEO can pretty much run them at will, it does require them effort and normally that comes with a REASON to run the plate. this to me seems to violate probable cause for search. Yes i veiw the random running of plates as a for of search. LEO's as i recall <it's been 20 years> are highly frowned upon for running plates and id's for no reason. I don't see this as any different other than it's automated for the department. running the plate automatically just for the hell of it i have a problem with. ESPECIALLY when they are logging and STORING the locations of where the vehicle is and has been. i am on the road frequently and have accounts in some VERY bad areas. I also end up responding to those accounts at weird hours for service calls. i am not really thrilled about the state keepeing a database of my movements through cracked out neighborhoods at 2am due to my job.

For the first highlighted point.

Cops don't need a REASON to run a plate.... driving down the road, I know I've had my plate run several times by the fact that the cop car is shadowing me 15-20 behind and one lane over.  And I had done nothing wrong...just being the car near the cop.  It's a numbers game. They run plates as they are driving along...maybe something comes up...maybe not.  Everyone gets upset when a cop pulls them over for some "minor traffic infraction"....but those same stops sometimes gets the cops a chance to stop someone who may have tickets/warrants/etc. I was told by one cop, most bad guys don't always pay attention to "driving by the rules" and they can often catch up with guys because of those "minor traffic infractions". Those of us who DON'T have anything else going on, have a clean record, and maybe rolled through a stop sign, or some other "minor" thing, get stopped and usually the cop finds nothing and gives a warning...cause we were so nice and polite...right?

As for the second highlight.... yeah, the tracking issue could be abused, depending on how it's used. Then again, if they show up for a accident or major crime and the system automatically records all the plates it sees, maybe they can contact those people about what they may have seen.  

No Expert

Quoted: Quoted: i am against it. while the license plates are state property and an LEO can pretty much run them at will, it does require them effort and normally that comes with a REASON to run the plate. this to me seems to violate probable cause for search. Yes i veiw the random running of plates as a for of search. LEO's as i recall <it's been 20 years> are highly frowned upon for running plates and id's for no reason. I don't see this as any different other than it's automated for the department. running the plate automatically just for the hell of it i have a problem with. ESPECIALLY when they are logging and STORING the locations of where the vehicle is and has been. i am on the road frequently and have accounts in some VERY bad areas. I also end up responding to those accounts at weird hours for service calls. i am not really thrilled about the state keepeing a database of my movements through cracked out neighborhoods at 2am due to my job. No P/C or reasonable suspicion is required. I randomly run plates on a nightly basis. The result is usually suspended/cancelled/expired registration or warrant/narcotics arrests. You are absolutely entitled to you point of view but it is an acceptable practice.

And that is why it is scary.

Just remember to park in a manner where the do-hickie can't read your plates while at the gunshow because it might build a data base of who attends gunshows.  Kind of like a back door  to building files for gun owners.  I can piture a pull over where the dispatcher tells the cop, "Warning, suspect has visited 10 gunshows in the last two years and is possible armed, use extreme caution."  Sorry could resist.  

Quoted: Just remember to park in a manner where the do-hickie can't read your plates while at the gunshow because it might build a data base of who attends gunshows.  Kind of like a back door  to building files for gun owners.  I can piture a pull over where the dispatcher tells the cop, "Warning, suspect has visited 10 gunshows in the last two years and is possible armed, use extreme caution."  Sorry could resist.[ }:D]

I have one problem with this system.

I have brought this up once before in reference to the speed cameras.  The plate reading systems have a hard time deciphering the state as most of them are in letters about 3/4inch tall.  This becomes a problem as a lot of states use the same letter combinations.

I got a ticket in the mail for a vehicle busted for speeding in DC.  One look at the vehicle in the included picture told me it was not mine.  A look at the plate on the offending vehicle showed TEXAS and not VIRGINIA.  Until the system can determine that, it will be a problem.  

Granted it will be a tiny percentage of people wrongly stopped.  But, I will be extremely pissed if I get taken out of my vehicle at gun point and deatained because some asshole is wanted in another state and just happens to have the same combination of letters and numbers as my plate.  This can happen now, but there is at least some human saying oh, wait we are looking for a Texas plate this is not the guy.  Automate it and I bet someone will make the stop based on the computer beeping even if they see it is not the same plate.

A solution?  Start using european style plates.  Make the first 2 digits the state abbreviation.  That will insure no duplication.  Plus the text is larger making it easier for the computers to read.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: i am against it. while the license plates are state property and an LEO can pretty much run them at will, it does require them effort and normally that comes with a REASON to run the plate. this to me seems to violate probable cause for search. Yes i veiw the random running of plates as a for of search. LEO's as i recall <it's been 20 years> are highly frowned upon for running plates and id's for no reason. I don't see this as any different other than it's automated for the department. running the plate automatically just for the hell of it i have a problem with. ESPECIALLY when they are logging and STORING the locations of where the vehicle is and has been. i am on the road frequently and have accounts in some VERY bad areas. I also end up responding to those accounts at weird hours for service calls. i am not really thrilled about the state keepeing a database of my movements through cracked out neighborhoods at 2am due to my job. No P/C or reasonable suspicion is required. I randomly run plates on a nightly basis. The result is usually suspended/cancelled/expired registration or warrant/narcotics arrests. You are absolutely entitled to you point of view but it is an acceptable practice. And that is why it is scary.

You could always do what the ROT nutcakes do, Make your own license plates with a Sharpee and a piece of cardboard.

Can it pick out uninsured motorists?

Quoted: Can it pick out uninsured motorists?

No, but once they cross-reference it with the gun-owner list they have somewhere it can pick out us.

Quoted: First off, the data has always been stored. You can thank the hysteria over Racial Profiling (and other pet liberal causes) for that.  I think it's for 90 days locally. Secondly, I don't need a reason to run your plate. In fact, from the moment I get in the car and start driving around I'm running plates with one hand.  Couple hundred a night. The description is a little misleading howver.  It may have the capability of running thousands of plates, but your average officer is not going to have time to read them all, nor is your CAD system going to have the capability to process thousands of LP checks from each car.  Heck, on the weekends returns can take 10 minutes per check. I don't see much point in cruising parking lots.  You can't arrest someone when they are not with the car you just ran, and I'm not going to sit up on one vehicle all night waiting for Joe Snuffy with traffic warrants. We now return you to your normally scheduled tinfoil.

So you run every plate in your line of vision and store the details along with GPS coordinates?


Or were you using an example that has nothing to do with the automated scanning of all license plates and their location at that time of day?

Quoted: Can it pick out uninsured motorists?

In SC that's already computerized so it would be very simple to add a check for it.  I've ridden with two different people that got caught at roadblocks for not having insurance before we even made it to the officers doing the paperwork check and the searching.  An officer parked on the side of the road about 1/2 a mile behind the roadblock was checking plates as people slowed-down to stop for the line. In one case, the entry in the state DMV database was simply incorrect and in the other the insurance company had credited his payment to his wife's car insurance rather than his own.  In both cases the car was searched (err, the cop doing it used the word inventoried, but it was a search), towed, and impounded, and I had to call for a ride for us.

I guess this gets to another problem with the system.  State DMV databases, like the above example, aren't exactly noted for their correctness.  An automated system like this would make DMV mistakes much more likely to cause trouble for you.  Even a short tow and impound costs a lot of money.z

Quoted: No, but once they cross-reference it with the gun-owner list they have somewhere it can pick out us.

That’s the next step. They knock on your door and say sir we have you down as a registered firearms owner and your license plate was scan near a gun crime I need to take you down town. As a gun owner with a registered fire arm you are automatically pick up if your vehicle was near a gun crime. Watch it will happen. Were almost second class citizens today.

Quoted: Quoted: Can it pick out uninsured motorists? In SC that's already computerized so it would be very simple to add a check for it.  I've ridden with two different people that got caught at roadblocks for not having insurance before we even made it to the officers doing the paperwork check and the searching.  An officer parked on the side of the road about 1/2 a mile behind the roadblock was checking plates as people slowed-down to stop for the line. In one case, the entry in the state DMV database was simply incorrect and in the other the insurance company had credited his payment to his wife's car insurance rather than his own.  In both cases the car was searched (err, the cop doing it used the word inventoried, but it was a search), towed, and impounded, and I had to call for a ride for us. I guess this gets to another problem with the system.  State DMV databases, like the above example, aren't exactly noted for their correctness.  An automated system like this would make DMV mistakes much more likely to cause trouble for you.  Even a short tow and impound costs a lot of money.z

It's a small price to pay.  

Computer Databases are infalible and always properly cared for and checked for consistancy.

As a person heavily involved in IT and database apps, I well know how often they are filled with erroneous, incomplete, or mis-keyed data.  It's a constant problem.  Yet they are trusted as absolute wells of truth.  It's kinda funny really.

Time to go mudding

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: i am against it. while the license plates are state property and an LEO can pretty much run them at will, it does require them effort and normally that comes with a REASON to run the plate. this to me seems to violate probable cause for search. Yes i veiw the random running of plates as a for of search. LEO's as i recall <it's been 20 years> are highly frowned upon for running plates and id's for no reason. I don't see this as any different other than it's automated for the department. running the plate automatically just for the hell of it i have a problem with. ESPECIALLY when they are logging and STORING the locations of where the vehicle is and has been. i am on the road frequently and have accounts in some VERY bad areas. I also end up responding to those accounts at weird hours for service calls. i am not really thrilled about the state keepeing a database of my movements through cracked out neighborhoods at 2am due to my job. No P/C or reasonable suspicion is required. I randomly run plates on a nightly basis. The result is usually suspended/cancelled/expired registration or warrant/narcotics arrests. You are absolutely entitled to you point of view but it is an acceptable practice. And that is why it is scary. You could always do what the ROT nutcakes do, Make your own license plates with a Sharpee and a piece of cardboard.

Why? I have nothing to hide. Why should we mind if we are randomly checked for validity? Why would we object to having our movements tracked and known? How could you think that ramdomly checking people on the street is an invasion of privacy? It's public... Right?

What I find scary is that we have come to a point where reasonable people with knowledge of rights and the Constitution find random checks of Citizens to be an acceptable practice.

Quoted: On the surface it looks like an excellent tool to combat crime.  I hope it works wonderfully for exactly that.  BUT I am never comfortable with anything that may be potentially abused.  A device that automatically scans large samples of the population...hmm... Instinctually, I would vote no if it was up to me.

Gee, you mean like the traffic cameras that line freeways and major intersections in large cities? In Detroit they are EVERYWHERE, like every 1/4 to 1/2 mile on the freeways... Back in about 1996 I read an article in Guns and Weapons for Law Enforcement that had a sales blurb/product release for a patrol car based camera and laptop system that could log 3,000 plates an hour.

Any camera will do.

Dave

When I was on the "job" this would have been great. We had many major roads leading thru my area including a interstate. I ran a lot of plates when someone was from out of the area at odd times etc.
Abuses could happen with this type of system and time will show those, but overall for the officer this can save him lots of time and could improve safety.

Can I have a link to this story origin?

Quoted: Can I have a link to this story origin?

Link

Quoted: I don't like it by default (tin foil, big brother, unintended consequences, yada yada), but I'm open to being convinced otherwise. I just don't have the energy to sit down and figure out why I might support such a thing right now.

If this system targets known stolen vehicles or people with felony warrants on a public roadway, what is the harm? Maybe the police will start concentrating on known felons by license plate number rather than using pretext stops to see if the car or person is wanted. People on these boards often say something like, why don't the police target the criminals and leave the average citizen driving down the road alone. Well, this system just might be a step in that direction.

Should result in a lot of rollin-stolens getting recovered.

Quoted: On the tracking bit: Is there already a way to determine where an officer was when he ran a plate while driving? If so, how far back can a department reasonably search?

Well there is a GPS in my patrol car, and all radio transmissions are recorded.  So in theory, yes.

Son of Sam was caught because a parking ticket placed his vehicle near the scene of one of his crimes.

Fuck that shit.

If it comes into effect, I'll definately try to defeat the system somehow.

Quoted: Should result in a lot of rollin-stolens getting recovered.

Would it help in that area? Yes. I see a lot of potential stops for tag violations, warrants on the owner, insurance issues, Amber Alerts, etc...

But it just seems creepy to me.