Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Site Notices
Posted: 3/23/2006 7:18:56 AM EDT
My airline recently imposed some downright frightening rules about what may and may not be said, and they apply both on- and off-duty. So far four pilots have been charged:

1. A captain allegedly called his first officer a "hook-nose fucking jew" in the cockpit. The captain denied it. The first officer and a flight attendant testified otherwise. He was fired. (Aside: The first officer has a reputation for being very obnoxious and for baiting people into arguments.)

2. A pilot made a derogatory post on a website about a fellow employee who had undergone a trans-gender operation and was featured in a Business Week article. He was suspended for 90 days.

3. A pilot used the phrase "spearchuckers" in conversation with another employee. He was fired, but later reinstated after an arbitration and 14 months without pay.

4. A pilot posted a "highly critical" comment about a union official on a union website. He was fired.


Not that I'm advocating poor manners, but I think we've crossed a frightening line when we start firing good people for an out-of-line comment, especially if they're at home and off-duty, as #2 and #4 were. And it seems like there's not much of a burden of proof before someone's career gets trashed.

It also disturbs me that so many people have so little loyalty towards fellow employees. It sounds like the Hitler Youth Turn-in-your-Friends-and-Parents programs. It's the modern Smelling Out of witches.

I don't enjoy going to work like I used to. I'm just trying to keep my mouth shut and make it to retirement.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:22:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 7:22:30 AM EDT by mr_camera_man]

Originally Posted By Rodent:
I don't enjoy going to work like I used to. I'm just trying to keep my mouth shut and make it to retirement.



Not so fast... I'm forwarding this by email to your HR department. You're Fired!

Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:28:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 7:28:42 AM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By Rodent:


Not that I'm advocating poor manners, but I think we've crossed a frightening line when we start firing good people for an out-of-line comment, especially if they're at home and off-duty, as #2 and #4 were. And it seems like there's not much of a burden of proof before someone's career gets trashed.



On the other hand, a company/corporation should be able to make up whatever rules it wants to, and employees then have the choice to suck them up - or leave.

So it's almost like a clash of two valid principles that are coming into conflict.



But your #2 and #4 examples raise a very interesting issue, of where individual "freedom of speech" intersects with company policy and how much they can restrict individual expression at work (or even at home). I know a business school professor at a top school who is very interested in freedom of expression issues, and is currently writing a book on this very topic.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:32:11 AM EDT
#1 - #3 sound like dumbasses. Attorney might help #4.

Sounds like management has improvised the perfect "Divide and Conquer" tactic. Straights vs Gays, Fems vs Males, Black vs White, etc. "Keep 'em pissed at each other, we get by."
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:33:37 AM EDT
When employers enforce rules that govern what people do on their own time, they are in effect engaging in mind control. Say you are a racist, and at home you decidedly hate a certain creed. So long as you keep your opinions to yourself in the workplace....and those opinions in no way influence your production as an employee....why should what you feel inside matter?

I defy anyone to tell me what I can and cant say or do on my time.
My opinions are rarely popular, so I keep them to myself (except on this site)
When my employers tell me to change my opinions, its time to find alternative employment.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:35:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 7:36:17 AM EDT by phatmax]
Rodent,

You work for Anonymous Airlines and that is Rule 32 I think....


I would suggest you find another airline or another line of work. BOHICA, you are about to get F*CKED.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:37:28 AM EDT


rodent,

who do you work for again?
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:38:33 AM EDT
Someone photo shopped pics of the faces of our top two executives to a pic of two gay guys in the act of fudge packing. They then put copies of the pic in every unrinal and stall of the bathrooms.

I was one of the first ones interviewed about it.

I saw it was freedom of speech. Security did not.


PS. I did not do it, but I found out who did. And no I did not tell.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:44:51 AM EDT

I don't enjoy going to work like I used to. I'm just trying to keep my mouth shut and make it to retirement.


Amen brother. Between hauling the trailer park crowd, the poorly staffed ramps, the company beating us up about hauling a few hundred extra pounds of gas (based on an already incorrect burn rate), giving me an FO with 300 hours total time and a half hour of IMC, changing payable MX cancellations into non-pay WX cancels on the timesheet, flying with 5 MEL's that take 30 minutes to look up ( and then complaining about why I was 5 min. late off the gate)....and on and on....I have about had it.

Where in the hell is the FAA on all this nonsense? As much as I hate the concept...I sure wish the de-regulation experiment would come to an end.

- Anarki
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:52:44 AM EDT
Your airline is not the only place this is going on. All I can say is if your are in a work environment becareful of what you say, how you say it and who you say it to. Know your audience.

I know of an guy I used to work with who was a manager. This guy was kind of a loose cannon. He made a ethnic remark, was orverheard by an employee passing by. Next thing you know he wasn't a manager. They were going to make an example of him.

A lot of companies have diversity training, sexual harassment training. HR warnings about off color remarks and even video taping the work evironment. I had to go through all these training seminars along with the employees that worked for me. Every seminar made mention of disciplinary action up to and including termination of employment.

I don't know about posting on websites. Unless you did it on company time with their equipment. Then they can get you for missuse of the companies assests.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:56:59 AM EDT
I think 90% of "the sheeple" hate liberty and freedom. They destroy it whenever they find it.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:58:41 AM EDT
So I guess asking a flight attendant for a BJ while cruising at 30,000 feet is now a big no, no?
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:59:22 AM EDT
Some more random thoughts about all this:

1. A terminated employee loses his A-fund retirement plan. (Hmmm, the company saves a lot of money every time they fire a senior captain...)

2. This rule is a wonderful weapon for any co-worker with an axe to grind. (Don't ever date a flight attendant and piss her off when you dump her. Don't ever correct a gay/woman/minority who's not doing the job, etc.)

3. Me, and everyone I know, has made unguarded comments that are firing offenses under this rule.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:01:13 AM EDT
yah number 4 about the union sounds illegal
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:02:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rodent:

It also disturbs me that so many people have so little loyalty towards fellow employees. It sounds like the Hitler Youth Turn-in-your-Friends-and-Parents programs. It's the modern Smelling Out of witches.

I don't enjoy going to work like I used to. I'm just trying to keep my mouth shut and make it to retirement.



My thoughts exactly...
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:07:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise:
yah number 4 about the union sounds illegal




"...the first officer retained ... counsel for representation and ... asserted ... at arbitration:
(the web site) constitutes the virtual electronic union hall and is governed by the Labor-Management Reporting Disclosure Act (the “LMRDA”). Per the LMRDA, a union member has the right to free speech and the union cannot discipline a member for invoking that right.

...the arbitrator denied the grievance in its entirety and found that:

the LMRDA used very specific language and limited its protections to union actions – not company actions – therefore, the LMRDA does not govern the present situation..."
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:08:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
So I guess asking a flight attendant for a BJ while cruising at 30,000 feet is now a big no, no?



(*Deep sigh*)

Whatever happened to the good old days?
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 6:49:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
Someone photo shopped pics of the faces of our top two executives to a pic of two gay guys in the act of fudge packing. They then put copies of the pic in every unrinal and stall of the bathrooms.

I was one of the first ones interviewed about it.

I saw it was freedom of speech. Security did not.


PS. I did not do it, but I found out who did. And no I did not tell.



Unfortunately that would be a classic case of "hostile work environment" , and you can't ignore it because if it ever went to a trial or arbitration , the company or Department would have heads roll or $$$ out.

The problem being is that most activities that are borderline that get ignored become evidence of a pattern of behaviour where the company fails to enforce it's own policies. Failure to follow your policies is what wins the complainers the really big bucks. Somebody gets out of line in some way and they get clanged but good and the complainer isn't going to win any suits.

Repeat after me. the world isn't fair.
Top Top