Did California gun laws do this?

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Did California gun laws do this?

Posted: 3/22/2006 8:06:37 PM EDT

"California posted the largest decrease in the number of gun dealers of any state in the nation, dropping from 20,148 in 1994 to 2,438 in 2005—a drop of 88 percent. "

Posted: 3/22/2006 8:08:04 PM EDT

[#1]

Did it deter any crime? Or just kill a business?

Posted: 3/22/2006 8:08:14 PM EDT

[#2]

Yes.

Posted: 3/22/2006 8:08:39 PM EDT

[#3]

Quoted:
Did it deter any crime? Or just kill a business?

i'll take option B

Posted: 3/22/2006 8:16:55 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
"California posted the largest decrease in the number of gun dealers of any state in the nation, dropping from 20,148 in 1994 to 2,438 in 2005—a drop of 88 percent. "

I once had an FFL in California, it was EASY and cost me $33.00 to the ATF, a few bucks to a place for my "bound book" and around $10.00 for a DROS book (looked like a cops ticket book). I didn't have to jump through any other hoops.

Now, the FFL (Dealer) costs way more, The DOJ wants a "certificate of eligibility" plus a bunch of OTHER money for various DROS crap, plus there are now "county licenses" and zoning concerns, the day of the HOME FFL dealer is OVER. Factor in the above with required liability insurance and other crap that they pull along with strong arm tactics of compliance visits, even when you're totally SQUARED away, it's a nightmare to be an FFL dealer in California.

Posted: 3/22/2006 8:17:52 PM EDT

[#5]

I thought so.

Posted: 3/22/2006 8:24:17 PM EDT

[#6]

Not to mention that many of their best customers (like me) have moved

Posted: 3/22/2006 8:25:46 PM EDT

[#7]

the gun laws were part of it. alot of gun dealers are small mom and pop shops. The cost of doing buisness is mostly what has drove them out. Workers comp is un afordable as well as realestate. On the gun law side, alot of those dealers werelocated in what became large cities. Big cities = crime (atleast in CA) Alot of these cities would not renew FFL licences or permit new ones. They also passed "gun tax" laws that almost doubled the price of guns so most of them moved the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA where they could practice buisness freely. This was a move by CA legislation to drive them out. (25% of gun crimes come from CA see it worked he

I know spelling I am not at work so dont care

Posted: 3/22/2006 8:30:47 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
Quoted:
"California posted the largest decrease in the number of gun dealers of any state in the nation, dropping from 20,148 in 1994 to 2,438 in 2005—a drop of 88 percent. "

I once had an FFL in California, it was EASY and cost me $33.00 to the ATF, a few bucks to a place for my "bound book" and around $10.00 for a DROS book (looked like a cops ticket book). I didn't have to jump through any other hoops.

Now, the FFL (Dealer) costs way more, The DOJ wants a "certificate of eligibility" plus a bunch of OTHER money for various DROS crap, plus there are now "county licenses" and zoning concerns, the day of the HOME FFL dealer is OVER. Factor in the above with required liability insurance and other crap that they pull along with strong arm tactics of compliance visits, even when you're totally SQUARED away, it's a nightmare to be an FFL dealer in California.

Aint that the truth, I just went through a DOJ audit last month, and the past 2 days I had an ATF audit. We had no issues with either agency, but damn they are very presice, and are in no mood for joking around

Posted: 3/22/2006 8:32:19 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
"California posted the largest decrease in the number of gun dealers of any state in the nation, dropping from 20,148 in 1994 to 2,438 in 2005—a drop of 88 percent. "

I once had an FFL in California, it was EASY and cost me $33.00 to the ATF, a few bucks to a place for my "bound book" and around $10.00 for a DROS book (looked like a cops ticket book). I didn't have to jump through any other hoops.

Now, the FFL (Dealer) costs way more, The DOJ wants a "certificate of eligibility" plus a bunch of OTHER money for various DROS crap, plus there are now "county licenses" and zoning concerns, the day of the HOME FFL dealer is OVER. Factor in the above with required liability insurance and other crap that they pull along with strong arm tactics of compliance visits, even when you're totally SQUARED away, it's a nightmare to be an FFL dealer in California.

+1 Former FFL here too.

Posted: 3/22/2006 8:32:40 PM EDT

[#10]

Hopefully Ca will secede soon

Posted: 3/22/2006 8:33:23 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Not to mention that many of their best customers (like me) have moved

+1

Posted: 3/22/2006 8:57:20 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Hopefully Ca will secede soon

Yeah, that will fix everything.

Posted: 3/22/2006 9:17:44 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Hopefully Ca will secede soon

Yeah, that will fix everything.

Yeah, the rest of you guys can take the huge federal deficit, if we didn't have to give money to the fed we'd be rolling in cash.

Posted: 3/22/2006 9:21:45 PM EDT

[#14]

But, but , but... that's a good thing. Right?

Those bad people were illegitimate "kitchen-table" dealers who operated out of their homes or offices.

Posted: 3/22/2006 9:27:33 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Hopefully Ca will secede soon

Yeah, that will fix everything.

Yep, obviously California is the whole problem.

"The number of gun dealers in America has dropped by 190,726 since 1994 according to a new study released today by the Violence Policy Center (VPC)."

Posted: 3/22/2006 10:13:05 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
But, but , but... that's a good thing. Right?

Those bad people were illegitimate "kitchen-table" dealers who operated out of their homes or offices.

I read that too. Like somehow the small kitchen-table dealers suddenly went "off the grid" after they got their license and supplied all kinds of guns to ineligible gang-bangers, criminals and miscreants. The VPC sure loves to spin numbers. As my former boss liked to say "figures don't lie, but liars can figure."

Posted: 3/22/2006 10:21:36 PM EDT

[#17]

Just started dealing with a new dealer here in CA and get this... the store has been open for quite a while now, they had to get a storefront first AND THEN get their FFL. So you have to put all this money and time in a store to sell what? Ammo and accessories until you can get an FFL?

A friend of mine was a private FFL and he did it just for the ability to do it as a hobby. CA put pressure on him and now he is no longer an FFL. Sad.

Posted: 3/22/2006 10:24:31 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Just started dealing with a new dealer here in CA and get this... the store has been open for quite a while now, they had to get a storefront first AND THEN get their FFL. So you have to put all this money and time in a store to sell what? Ammo and accessories until you can get an FFL?

A friend of mine was a private FFL and he did it just for the ability to do it as a hobby. CA put pressure on him and now he is no longer an FFL. Sad.

Posted: 3/23/2006 12:37:42 AM EDT

[#19]

The Socialists in Sacramento are doing as they planned-since they can't just outright ban firearms without loads of challenges that take time and money, they just made the requirements for being a dealer so hard, the stores close.

I knew there was a good reason why I left CA besides the insane living costs and taxes...

Posted: 3/23/2006 12:38:23 AM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
But, but , but... that's a good thing. Right?

Those bad people were illegitimate "kitchen-table" dealers who operated out of their homes or offices.

Kitchen table gun dealers aren't the problem according to a DOJ field agent I spoke to. They have all their ducks in a row and keep everything on the up and up.

OTOH, I know of at least three brick and mortar gun stores busted for selling guns out the back door with no paperwork. Others have had their FFLs yanked for sloppy paperwork and other reasons. Some are done in by overly restrictive laws but some did themselves in.

Posted: 3/23/2006 1:52:28 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Kitchen table gun dealers aren't the problem according to a DOJ field agent I spoke to. They have all their ducks in a row and keep everything on the up and up.

Of course. Going after "kitchen table" gun dealers makes as much sense as shutting down mom & pop drug stores in order to cut down on illegal sales of crack, meth, heroin and other illegal drugs by street dealers.

Posted: 3/23/2006 3:41:13 AM EDT

[#22]

If CA sceeded you guys would be SOL. There are too many tree hugging, hippy wannabe, rich no nothings, worthless pieces of crap, and nirvana seekers in that state. Why do you think that CA is the way it is? Not saying that there aren't decent people trapped in CA's web, Those people are slowly leaving. IF CA were to seceed, the country wouldn't be loosing any resources. CA would die off, as they have nothing to provide the rest of the country, and they would most likely run out of $ after people stopped being able to get paid $ there like they are used to. I just don't think that CA is self sufficient. All the working class people need to leave. Can't make a living there and keep it. Too expensive. The rich are not worth anything. Once the working class leaves, CA is dead.

Posted: 3/23/2006 4:06:35 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
If CA sceeded you guys would be SOL. There are too many tree hugging, hippy wannabe, rich no nothings, worthless pieces of crap, and nirvana seekers in that state. Why do you think that CA is the way it is? Not saying that there aren't decent people trapped in CA's web, Those people are slowly leaving. IF CA were to seceed, the country wouldn't be loosing any resources. CA would die off, as they have nothing to provide the rest of the country, and they would most likely run out of $ after people stopped being able to get paid $ there like they are used to. I just don't think that CA is self sufficient. All the working class people need to leave. Can't make a living there and keep it. Too expensive. The rich are not worth anything. Once the working class leaves, CA is dead.

Where is California?, is that a country?

Posted: 3/23/2006 4:16:22 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
If CA sceeded you guys would be SOL. There are too many tree hugging, hippy wannabe, rich no nothings, worthless pieces of crap, and nirvana seekers in that state. Why do you think that CA is the way it is? Not saying that there aren't decent people trapped in CA's web, Those people are slowly leaving. IF CA were to seceed, the country wouldn't be loosing any resources. CA would die off, as they have nothing to provide the rest of the country, and they would most likely run out of $ after people stopped being able to get paid $ there like they are used to. I just don't think that CA is self sufficient. All the working class people need to leave. Can't make a living there and keep it. Too expensive. The rich are not worth anything. Once the working class leaves, CA is dead.

they provide shitpiles of fruits/veggies and most important-garlic!!!!!!!

Posted: 3/23/2006 7:13:45 AM EDT

[#25]

Also, many of the most profitable types of guns for dealers have been banned.

Example: a guy who buys a shotgun or deer rifle is going to need, at most, a very limited number of accessories and ammo. Beyond a scope, mounts, and a sling, there isn't a whole lot of options.

Someone buying an AR, AK, HK91, FAL, etc. are far more likely to buy magazines, ammo, optics, mounts, float tubes, sling swivels, and so on. Most of an FFL's profit comes from accessory and ammo sales, not sales of the guns themselves.

I haven't bought a gun in years now, because there really isn't anything that I want to buy that's still for sale.

-Troy

Posted: 3/23/2006 10:03:50 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

Example: a guy who buys a shotgun or deer rifle is going to need, at most, a very limited number of accessories and ammo. Beyond a scope, mounts, and a sling, there isn't a whole lot of options.
-Troy

Don't forget the one box of 20 rounds that a hunter will buy that takes him 3 to 4 years to shoot up versus the 1,000's of rounds an EBR shooter goes through in that same time. Heck, I blow through 4 to 5 thousand rounds or more of just 5.56 in a year alone!

I think the average gun has about an 8% to 10% margin, while the average accessory or box of ammo has something 25% to 35% margin. Sure, the gun being a much higher dollar ring means that the lower margin percentage still provides a larger margin in terms of dollars, but the velocity isn't there like accessories or ammo.

We all like to be believe the libtards are idiots, but let's not underestimate our enemy....

Posted: 3/23/2006 10:18:55 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
"California posted the largest decrease in the number of gun dealers of any state in the nation, dropping from 20,148 in 1994 to 2,438 in 2005—a drop of 88 percent. "

I am one of those statistics. The anti-gunners attacked localities by forcing them to require zoning of gun dealers and to make them have a store in a properly business-zoned location. Then they went further to require certain storage conditions, etc.

It isn't so much the law, as the anti-gunners.

My expired and unused FFL hangs in my safe. The city of Escondido said they would approve my local license, but when my FFL arrived, they changed their mind. Escondido city officials suck cock!!!

Posted: 3/23/2006 6:15:51 PM EDT

[#28]

I'ld have to agree that it was more local problems than State laws that did it.

Posted: 3/23/2006 6:17:41 PM EDT

[#29]

Yup.

Posted: 3/23/2006 6:24:50 PM EDT

[#30]

When I first started gun collecting 20 years ago, there were 42 storefront gun shops within a 30 minute drive of my house. Now there are only 11 and a couple of those barely pass as a gun shop.

Posted: 3/23/2006 6:26:53 PM EDT

[#31]

pushed a lot of gun owners east and west.

Posted: 3/23/2006 6:32:15 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Hopefully Ca will secede soon

Yeah, that will fix everything.

Yeah, the rest of you guys can take the huge federal deficit, if we didn't have to give money to the fed we'd be rolling in cash.

wouldn't we all.....

Posted: 3/27/2006 10:47:39 AM EDT

[#33]

Bill Clinton's fault.

Posted: 3/27/2006 10:55:54 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
"California posted the largest decrease in the number of gun dealers of any state in the nation, dropping from 20,148 in 1994 to 2,438 in 2005—a drop of 88 percent. "

Yes, it's almost impossible to get an FFL for a store-front dealership. Getting a home-based dealership going is not going to happen. The drop in FFLs is mostly the result of home-based dealers giving up.

In college, I worked for a guy who operated an FFL out of his Chevron station. He gave up in 1985 because there were too many regulations. I can imagine it's 100 times worse today.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Did California gun laws do this?

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