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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:31:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 1:18:44 AM EDT by Roland_O_Gilead]
I just read a review of this today over at National Review (here) and picked it up. I am through the first few chapters already (good writing) but I thought y'all would be interested in the plot and backstory.

First click here for the map that is on the inside cover of the book: Islamic Republic of America

Basically: on May 19th, 2015 New York and D.C. are obliterated by nukes. At the same time Mecca is hit with a dirty bomb. After a few weeks a "Zionist" conspiracy is unravelled . . . somehow Israel was behind both attacks and the US withdraws its protection. Then Europe and the Arabs invade Israel and drive the remaining Jews to refuge in Russia.

Social collapse occurs in the US and owing to the certainty provided by Islamic morals many people start converting. This process started first in Hollywood before the nuclear attacks but the turmoil afterwards accelerated it. A few years later we have a full out civil war between Christian southerners and newly converted Muslims named Jeff and Trey who die in Walmart parking lots thinking about 72 virgins. The book occurs 25 years after all of this.

The first line of the book is : "The second half of the Super Bowl began right after midday prayers."

I'll post a full report when I finish it.

Author is Robert Ferrigno.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 1:34:05 PM EDT
WOLVERINES!!!
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 1:50:38 PM EDT
Sounds good.

Let me know, also where did you pick it up.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 1:51:59 PM EDT
I'd be moving to the South.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 1:53:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
I'd be moving to the South.



+1...oh wait already AM.....(gotta move further south...)
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 1:58:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:
WOLVERINES!!!



+1!

BRING IT!
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 4:53:06 PM EDT
It would almost be worth it to see the faces of hard core leftist feminists as they are handed their burkas. 'But, But, we supported you..."
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:01:27 PM EDT
hmmm sounds interesting.....Ill have to check it out.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:02:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By happycynic:
WOLVERINES!!!



+1!

BRING IT!



Lock and load.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:03:48 PM EDT


Alt-Fiction isn't my thing....

But, I suppose it may enthrall some.

That's what good fiction is supposed to do, I suppose.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:05:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DriftPunch:
It would almost be worth it to see the faces of hard core leftist feminists as they are handed their burkas. 'But, But, we supported you..."


Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:08:35 PM EDT
By the time it was found it was an Israeli plot, there would be no Mooslims left in the U.S. to convert anybody.Also consider with D.C. and N.Y. gone, the country would probably be better off
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:14:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:20:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Jarhead_22:

Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:
Social collapse occurs in the US and owing to the certainty provided by Islamic morals many people start converting.


This is where you lost me.

I think the implication is a rigid social structure dominated by submission to god (and therefore imams).
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:22:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:28:00 PM EDT
It's a good book, but you have to come into it with some willing suspension of disbelief. Like Red Dawn, the interest isn't really in how the Russians and Cubans invaded America, it's in imagining the world given that that has happened.

There's a bitchin' web site that is "from" the era depicted in the book here: www.republicworldnews.com/.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:33:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2006 5:38:17 PM EDT by thedoctors308]

Riiiiiiight.
The first half of the book?
certainly plausible.
Americans converting to an alien religion?
please.

ETA: Jarhead22 pretty much summed it up.
I just don't see America converting to Islam, either through force, or through choice.
It just wouldn't happen.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:42:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
I'd be moving to the South.




Why dude, Stay up North You and me could round up a small group of guys for Some Guerrilla Ops.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 5:50:34 PM EDT
Wide spread conversion to Catholicism is far more plausible given the current demographic "trend".

Now this happening in Europe is far more likely.

At least Nevada remains a "Free State".

Link Posted: 3/22/2006 6:00:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 6:33:49 PM EDT
I have been reading further . . . no spoilers to tell yet . . .

The hero of the book is a Muslim from the I.R. of A. but a lapsed one who enjoys beer and Coca-Cola, which is contraband. By the way, the capital of the Bible Belt is Atlanta.

As for "Wolverines" and all that, I would be interested in hearing more about the civil war before the borders solidified. Apparently a major political event that started the shift was the new American president converting before entering office and being sworn in ON THE KORAN.

I don't think the idea is so farfetched. It mentions one country music star that converted to Islam and went on and on at an awards show about what a difference it had made to him . . . this started a small wave of conversion, as did other well planned celebrity and political conversions.

The intimation is that the Saudis had the patience to finance this and that they knew a domino effect could occur if enough people converted. As the author says in an interview, Latin America has several hundred million Catholics. How many were Catholic 200 years ago? 300 years ago? These changes can and do happen and it is difficult to know where the phase change is.

Link Posted: 3/22/2006 6:38:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MrClean4Hire:

Originally Posted By Zaphod:

Originally Posted By happycynic:
WOLVERINES!!!



+1!

BRING IT!



Lock and load.



LOL

All of a sudden, the "bible belt" isn't such a terrible place to be

the question is, do you limit the number of yanks allowed to migrate to the south?

and what do you do about Canadians? their bacon sucks, but they're generally ok people, right?
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 6:50:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:

Social collapse occurs in the US and owing to the certainty provided by Islamic morals many people start converting.



Bwahahah What, the certainty of regressing to the stone age? Blowing yourself up? Why do you read this stuff?
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 6:54:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Riiiiiiight.



As I said, you just have to go wth the original premise and enjoy the ride, like zombie movies.

Anyway, one of the author's points is that "you can abolish water, but you can't abolish thirst". Much of the western world has become post-Christian secularists, and what churches remain are wishy-washy shells of their former selves. There is a religious instinct in humans and if they don't get it in Christianity they go looking for it somewhere else. The book posits bad times--nukes going off in the US, biological warfare, civil war. You're broke, in fear of death, several members of your faimily have been killed, and your life has been turned upside down. You wander by the Christian church and the clergy themselves aren't so sure if God is still around. You stop by the mosque and they have a clear plan, plus lots of rules for how to live your life, and a sense of belonging. They have answers for people who don't know what to do.

In the book the areas with the strongest religious beliefs are the most resistant to Islam. The Catholics hold up well, as do the Protestants in the south and the Mormons. It's those without serious religious belief beforehand that tend to convert. (San Francisco turns into a hotbed of religious fundamentalism.) After the Islamic takeover it's a good career move to turn Islamic because Christians are overtly discriminated against.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 6:58:12 PM EDT
The return to religion is based partly on the safety of a big tribe

I think the author is a philosopy major.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 7:02:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:
I just read a review of this today over at National Review (here) and picked it up. I am through the first few chapters already (good writing) but I thought y'all would be interested in the plot and backstory.

First click here for the map that is on the inside cover of the book: Islamic Republic of America

Basically: on May 19th, 2015 New York and D.C. are obliterated by nukes. At the same time Mecca is hit with a dirty bomb. After a few weeks a "Zionist" conspiracy is unravelled . . . somehow Israel was behind both attacks and the US withdraws its protection. Then Europe and the Arabs invade Israel and drive the remaining Jews to refuge in Russia.

Social collapse occurs in the US and owing to the certainty provided by Islamic morals many people start converting. This process started first in Hollywood before the nuclear attacks but the turmoil afterwards accelerated it. A few years later we have a full out civil war between Christian southerners and newly converted Muslims named Jeff and Trey who die in Walmart parking lots thinking about 72 virgins. The book occurs 25 years after all of this.

The first line of the book is : "The second half of the Super Bowl began right after midday prayers."

I'll post a full report when I finish it.

Author is Robert Ferrigno.



WTF over? So we're supposed to believe that

Israel would attack America with nuclear weapons
Europe could invade a foreign country
Jews would seek refuge in Russia
Americans would convert to Islam

Yeah, I know it's just a story, but my suspension of disbelief only goes so far.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 7:04:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
I'd be moving to the South.



We've got plenty of room...c'mon down.

HH
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 8:42:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mace:

Yeah, I know it's just a story, but my suspension of disbelief only goes so far.


Seriously.

This is a story about the evil Muslims vs. the good Christians, kicked off by the evil Jews?

I know about half of this board will be jacking it over this though.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 8:48:26 PM EDT
"South Carolina: Standing alone against northern aggression (and islamo-fascists) since 1861."

Link Posted: 3/22/2006 8:53:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By verticalgain:

Originally Posted By mace:

Yeah, I know it's just a story, but my suspension of disbelief only goes so far.


Seriously.

This is a story about the evil Muslims vs. the good Christians, kicked off by the evil Jews?

I know about half of this board will be jacking it over this though.



Well the version of the background I gave is what is "known" as history to the main character - and much of the book is him discovering what really happened. Hint: Muslims in the future love conspiracy theories about the evil Jews just as much as those in the present do. Wouldn't terrorists today love to blame attacks on the Jews and Israelis so that we don't have the will to relatiate?

As for Islam providing "certainty" - that is what the book says via the main character and not my opinion at all. The author said that his point was that if we are going to be in a war against religious fundamentalists for decades to come we might need faith of our own to combat them. Hence why the Mormons and crazy Southern Baptists still live free. A few good quotes from my readings tonight:

About cops and handguns:

"His hand still rested on his pistol. Typical rookie. Handguns had been strictly prohibited under the new Bill of Rights, having one a capital offense for anyone other than police. Baby cops always took delight and comfort in their firepower, like religious pilgrims clutching chips from the thighbone of a saint, assuming they were protected from evil."

The Bill of Rights:

"Tacked to the bookshelf, out of direct line-of-sight to visitors, was a copy of the old Bill of Rights . . . The First Amendment had been gutted, according to Sarah, and the former protection of the others limited. Most people didn't seem to mind. Rakkim had once read that burning the flag actually used to be considered free speech. The complete elimination of the Second Amendment had been more controversial. There were old-timers still bitching about that, but they had turned in their guns, just like everybody else. No guns allowed, not for private citizens."

There is also a great quote about how many people come to pay tribute to the martyrs and how Americans before the Transition did not honor their heroes and their war dead properly. Very interesting . . .
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 8:54:22 PM EDT
What's shocking is that anyone would buy it.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:04:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
What's shocking is that anyone would buy it.



Why? It is a good read and a nice wake up call to people who don't think Islam is a threat. I hope that it sells well and engenders many hard conversations.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:04:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By verticalgain:

This is a story about the evil Muslims vs. the good Christians, kicked off by the evil Jews?



No, not really. Some of the Muslims are good, and a hero is Jewish. And things aren't exactly as they seem in chapter one.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:07:31 PM EDT
It is a good read. The Islamic United States is portrayed as sinking into second-rate-dom, swerving into third-rate-dom, and there are serious issues raised about the ability of moderate Muslims to resist the fundamentalists.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 1:14:13 AM EDT
Okay, I bought this book at 4 PM and I just finished it at 5 AM. I wasn't even reading straight through - I stopped for hapkido class. I guess it was good.

The ending was interesting. I still want to know who The Old One is. I also want to know what happens next to the Islamic Republic - if the freedoms lost are regained or if people stop being Muslim because they found out they were being lied to about their history.

I give it 11 imams out of 12.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 2:01:04 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 4:25:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Captain_Picard:
Wide spread conversion to Catholicism is far more plausible given the current demographic "trend".

Now this happening in Europe is far more likely.

At least Nevada remains a "Free State".




Hispanics (including illegals) are converting to Islam at a surprising rate - and also to evangelical Protestant Christianity.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 4:54:55 AM EDT


Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:
... owing to the certainty provided by Islamic morals many people start converting.



Very plausible. Islamic teachings appeal to people who are put off by the secularly materialistic AND those who have low self-esteem, low station in life. I've read a few articles citing each as reasons they converted. The most recent one I read was an American woman (IIRC some sort of medical professional) who converted b/c of the former reason - this was a National Geographic issue from a few years back.

The teachings of Islam give these people a way to get outside themselves and feel like they are daily part of something bigger than people. That can either be an improvement to their life or a dangerous thing, depending on how they are steered.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:05:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PBIR:

Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:
... owing to the certainty provided by Islamic morals many people start converting.



Very plausible. Islamic teachings appeal to people who are put off by the secularly materialistic AND those who have low self-esteem, low station in life. I've read a few articles citing each as reasons they converted. The most recent one I read was an American woman (IIRC some sort of medical professional) who converted b/c of the former reason - this was a National Geographic issue from a few years back.

The teachings of Islam give these people a way to get outside themselves and feel like they are daily part of something bigger than people. That can either be an improvement to their life or a dangerous thing, depending on how they are steered.



I don't think that the people who became atheists or agnostics by leaving their parents' religion are going to be the ones converting. But the children of atheists? Ripe for the picking . . .

Someone loan me a rocketship so I can leave this crazy assed planet.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:24:04 AM EDT
tag for home
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:27:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ODA_564:

Originally Posted By Captain_Picard:
Wide spread conversion to Catholicism is far more plausible given the current demographic "trend".

Now this happening in Europe is far more likely.

At least Nevada remains a "Free State".




Hispanics (including illegals) are converting to Islam at a surprising rate - and also to evangelical Protestant Christianity.



What's up with that? Personally, I'd become a Mormon before I'd become a Muzzie. At least I like Mormons.

Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:23:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:
Why? It is a good read and a nice wake up call to people who don't think Islam is a threat. I hope that it sells well and engenders many hard conversations.



I'll have to admit I don't see Islam as a threat. Our society is far to secular, the only thing your average American today cares about is what the TV tells them to care about. They aren't longing for religion or spiritual salvation from any source, they're looking for the next great reality show or wringing their hands over the bullshit spewed by the news.

We aren't going to have a holy war. We aren't going to fight the Muslims on our own soil, we aren't being indoctrinated by the gays, and while Democrats are certainly irritating they aren't the ones we'll be fighting either.

The federal government is the enemy. The government sees you as a source of income, no matter which party is at the head of it. They want you meek, working, taxpaying, and unable to fight back. Everything else is diversionary propaganda.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:55:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 2:14:19 PM EDT by General_Tso]

Originally Posted By mace:

Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:
I just read a review of this today over at National Review (here) and picked it up. I am through the first few chapters already (good writing) but I thought y'all would be interested in the plot and backstory.

First click here for the map that is on the inside cover of the book: Islamic Republic of America

Basically: on May 19th, 2015 New York and D.C. are obliterated by nukes. At the same time Mecca is hit with a dirty bomb. After a few weeks a "Zionist" conspiracy is unravelled . . . somehow Israel was behind both attacks and the US withdraws its protection. Then Europe and the Arabs invade Israel and drive the remaining Jews to refuge in Russia.

Social collapse occurs in the US and owing to the certainty provided by Islamic morals many people start converting. This process started first in Hollywood before the nuclear attacks but the turmoil afterwards accelerated it. A few years later we have a full out civil war between Christian southerners and newly converted Muslims named Jeff and Trey who die in Walmart parking lots thinking about 72 virgins. The book occurs 25 years after all of this.

The first line of the book is : "The second half of the Super Bowl began right after midday prayers."

I'll post a full report when I finish it.

Author is Robert Ferrigno.



WTF over? So we're supposed to believe that

Israel would attack America with nuclear weapons
Europe could invade a foreign country
Jews would seek refuge in Russia
Americans would convert to Islamjavascript:center();

Yeah, I know it's just a story, but my suspension of disbelief only goes so far.



Seems hard to believe, but look at Iran. I'm sure its rulers thought the samething before its conquest by Islamic forces.

ETA: You can see what's left of them in the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 2:08:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By verticalgain:

Originally Posted By Roland_O_Gilead:
Why? It is a good read and a nice wake up call to people who don't think Islam is a threat. I hope that it sells well and engenders many hard conversations.



I'll have to admit I don't see Islam as a threat. Our society is far to secular, the only thing your average American today cares about is what the TV tells them to care about. They aren't longing for religion or spiritual salvation from any source, they're looking for the next great reality show or wringing their hands over the bullshit spewed by the news.

We aren't going to have a holy war. We aren't going to fight the Muslims on our own soil, we aren't being indoctrinated by the gays, and while Democrats are certainly irritating they aren't the ones we'll be fighting either.

The federal government is the enemy. The government sees you as a source of income, no matter which party is at the head of it. They want you meek, working, taxpaying, and unable to fight back. Everything else is diversionary propaganda.



Our society is very secular. But look at American history to see how often a dominantly secular order has been overturned by any of the Great Revivals - mass religious awakenings occurring throughout the country. In the past these awakenings brought people into various "new" Protestant sects . . . Baptists, Pentecostals, 7th Day Adventists, etc. That was becuase all of our immigrants came from nominally Christian countries.

But there is nothing to say that the next Great Awakening in the U.S. has to be Christian. The Saudis and other Muslim groups are positioning themselves. What is going on with Latino conversion rates is probably the beginning of something.

I might note that in the book the best areas of the country after the Islamic takeover were those with the highest illegal immigrant population - because they clung to their Catholicism in greater numbers than the natives.

As to a civil war or any kind of physical conflict - it is not so hard to happen. Looking at the history of revolutions in this country and others it seems that a small but committed minority that justifies to themselves the use of force can generally take control of a larger indifferent population. Very few people in Iran were crazy hardliners, but the crazy hardliners did not hesitate to use force and terror disproportionate to their strength. Same in Russia, 1917.

I agree that the federal government is the enemy. But you have to decide whether the current federal government is worse than one that milks you dry with taxation because you are not Muslim and relegates you to second class citizenship. Write your representative? Get a fatwa on you.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 2:15:35 PM EDT
is it only in Hardback? might just wait for the cheaper smaller paperback version.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 2:35:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 2:53:56 PM EDT
Sounds plausible.

But then, I've always believed professional wrestling is real.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 3:15:16 PM EDT
Islamist who try to convert me will find themselves "Converted to Ambient Temperature!" or i will be but i ain't converting.

And if i am killed well i'll still have the last laugh as i return with christ during his second coming after dying for his sake and clean the gutter slime out along side him.

BTW, It won't just be the south killing the self propelled Bed linnens!
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 4:22:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 4:42:34 PM EDT by Belloc]

Originally Posted By verticalgain:

I'll have to admit I don't see Islam as a threat. Our society is far to secular, the only thing your average American today cares about is what the TV tells them to care about.



And it is just as bad here in Europe. In parts of France now 50% of those under 30 are Muslim. When they become 51% the Mohammadans and democracy are going to give Europe one hell of a wake up call. The Church is it attacked mercilessly because it teaches that marriage is between a man and a woman and slaughtering your unborn child is a moral poverty. Wait till they get a dose of Islamic "blue laws", and those great Burka fashions making the runways.


But can we be certain it is so decided? I doubt it very much. It has always seemed to me possible, and even probable, that there would be a resurrection of Islam and that our sons or our grandsons would see the renewal of that tremendous struggle between the Christian culture and what has been for more than a thousand years its greatest opponent.

Why this conviction should have arisen in the minds of certain observers and travellers, such as myself, I will now consider. It is indeed a vital question, "May not Islam arise again?"

In a sense the question is already answered because Islam has never departed. It still commands the fixed loyalty and unquestioning adhesion of all the millions between the Atlantic and the Indus and further afield throughout scattered communities of further Asia. But I ask the question in the sense "Will not perhaps the temporal power of Islam return and with it the menace of an armed Mohammedan world which will shake off the domination of Europeans_still nominally Christian_and reappear again as the prime enemy of our civilization?" The future always comes as a surprise but political wisdom consists in attempting at least some partial judgment of what that surprise may be. And for my part I cannot but believe that a main unexpected thing of the future is the return of Islam. Since religion is at the root of all political movements and changes and since we have here a very great religion physically paralysed but morally intensely alive, we are in the presence of an unstable equilibrium which cannot remain permanently unstable. Let us then examine the position.

I have said throughout these pages that the particular quality of Mohammedanism, regarded as a heresy, was its vitality. Alone of all the great heresies Mohammedanism struck permanent roots, developing a life of its own, and became at last something like a new religion. So true is this that today very few men, even among those who are highly instructed in history, recall the truth that Mohammedanism was essentially in its origins not a new religion, but a heresy.

Like all heresies, Mohammedanism lived by the Catholic truths which it had retained. Its insistence on personal immortality, on the Unity and Infinite Majesty of God, on His Justice and Mercy, its insistence on the equality of human souls in the sight of their Creator_these are its strength.



~ Hilaire Belloc
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