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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:34:05 PM EDT
[#1]
WOLVERINES!!!
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:50:38 PM EDT
[#2]
Sounds good.
Let me know, also where did you pick it up. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:51:59 PM EDT
[#3]
I'd be moving to the South.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:53:44 PM EDT
[#4]
+1...oh wait already AM.....(gotta move further south...) |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 1:58:37 PM EDT
[#5]
+1! BRING IT! 
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Posted: 3/22/2006 4:53:06 PM EDT
[#6]
It would almost be worth it to see the faces of hard core leftist feminists as they are handed their burkas. 'But, But, we supported you..."
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:01:27 PM EDT
[#7]
hmmm sounds interesting.....Ill have to check it out.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:02:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Lock and load. 
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:03:48 PM EDT
[#9]
 Alt-Fiction isn't my thing.... But, I suppose it may enthrall some. That's what good fiction is supposed to do, I suppose. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:05:09 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:08:35 PM EDT
[#11]
By the time it was found it was an Israeli plot, there would be no Mooslims left in the U.S. to convert anybody.Also consider with D.C. and N.Y. gone, the country would probably be better off
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:14:01 PM EDT
[#12]
This is where you lost me. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:20:22 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:22:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Oh, I caught the implication. I just don't think Americans are really into submission to much at all, as a group, especially a 7th century moon god. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:28:00 PM EDT
[#15]
It's a good book, but you have to come into it with some willing suspension of disbelief. Like Red Dawn, the interest isn't really in how the Russians and Cubans invaded America, it's in imagining the world given that that has happened.
There's a bitchin' web site that is "from" the era depicted in the book here: www.republicworldnews.com/. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:33:21 PM EDT
[#16]
 Riiiiiiight. The first half of the book? certainly plausible. Americans converting to an alien religion? please. ETA: Jarhead22 pretty much summed it up. I just don't see America converting to Islam, either through force, or through choice. It just wouldn't happen. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:42:56 PM EDT
[#17]
Why dude, Stay up North You and me could round up a small group of guys for Some Guerrilla Ops. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 5:50:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Wide spread conversion to Catholicism is far more plausible given the current demographic "trend".
Now this happening in Europe is far more likely. At least Nevada remains a "Free State".
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Posted: 3/22/2006 6:00:59 PM EDT
[#19]
I'll move north and form an army of Vermontagnards and liberate New England, then America.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 6:33:49 PM EDT
[#20]
I have been reading further . . . no spoilers to tell yet . . .
The hero of the book is a Muslim from the I.R. of A. but a lapsed one who enjoys beer and Coca-Cola, which is contraband. By the way, the capital of the Bible Belt is Atlanta. As for "Wolverines" and all that, I would be interested in hearing more about the civil war before the borders solidified. Apparently a major political event that started the shift was the new American president converting before entering office and being sworn in ON THE KORAN. I don't think the idea is so farfetched. It mentions one country music star that converted to Islam and went on and on at an awards show about what a difference it had made to him . . . this started a small wave of conversion, as did other well planned celebrity and political conversions. The intimation is that the Saudis had the patience to finance this and that they knew a domino effect could occur if enough people converted. As the author says in an interview, Latin America has several hundred million Catholics. How many were Catholic 200 years ago? 300 years ago? These changes can and do happen and it is difficult to know where the phase change is. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 6:38:12 PM EDT
[#21]
LOL All of a sudden, the "bible belt" isn't such a terrible place to be  the question is, do you limit the number of yanks allowed to migrate to the south? and what do you do about Canadians? their bacon sucks, but they're generally ok people, right? |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 6:50:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Bwahahah What, the certainty of regressing to the stone age? Blowing yourself up? Why do you read this stuff?
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Posted: 3/22/2006 6:54:22 PM EDT
[#23]
As I said, you just have to go wth the original premise and enjoy the ride, like zombie movies. Anyway, one of the author's points is that "you can abolish water, but you can't abolish thirst". Much of the western world has become post-Christian secularists, and what churches remain are wishy-washy shells of their former selves. There is a religious instinct in humans and if they don't get it in Christianity they go looking for it somewhere else. The book posits bad times--nukes going off in the US, biological warfare, civil war. You're broke, in fear of death, several members of your faimily have been killed, and your life has been turned upside down. You wander by the Christian church and the clergy themselves aren't so sure if God is still around. You stop by the mosque and they have a clear plan, plus lots of rules for how to live your life, and a sense of belonging. They have answers for people who don't know what to do. In the book the areas with the strongest religious beliefs are the most resistant to Islam. The Catholics hold up well, as do the Protestants in the south and the Mormons. It's those without serious religious belief beforehand that tend to convert. (San Francisco turns into a hotbed of religious fundamentalism.) After the Islamic takeover it's a good career move to turn Islamic because Christians are overtly discriminated against. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 6:58:12 PM EDT
[#24]
The return to religion is based partly on the safety of a big tribe
I think the author is a philosopy major. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 7:02:28 PM EDT
[#25]
WTF over? So we're supposed to believe that Israel would attack America with nuclear weapons Europe could invade a foreign country Jews would seek refuge in Russia Americans would convert to Islam Yeah, I know it's just a story, but my suspension of disbelief only goes so far. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 7:04:12 PM EDT
[#26]
We've got plenty of room...c'mon down. HH |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:42:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Seriously. This is a story about the evil Muslims vs. the good Christians, kicked off by the evil Jews? I know about half of this board will be jacking it over this though. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:48:26 PM EDT
[#28]
"South Carolina: Standing alone against northern aggression (and islamo-fascists) since 1861."
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:53:22 PM EDT
[#29]
Well the version of the background I gave is what is "known" as history to the main character - and much of the book is him discovering what really happened. Hint: Muslims in the future love conspiracy theories about the evil Jews just as much as those in the present do. Wouldn't terrorists today love to blame attacks on the Jews and Israelis so that we don't have the will to relatiate? As for Islam providing "certainty" - that is what the book says via the main character and not my opinion at all. The author said that his point was that if we are going to be in a war against religious fundamentalists for decades to come we might need faith of our own to combat them. Hence why the Mormons and crazy Southern Baptists still live free. A few good quotes from my readings tonight: About cops and handguns: "His hand still rested on his pistol. Typical rookie. Handguns had been strictly prohibited under the new Bill of Rights, having one a capital offense for anyone other than police. Baby cops always took delight and comfort in their firepower, like religious pilgrims clutching chips from the thighbone of a saint, assuming they were protected from evil." The Bill of Rights: "Tacked to the bookshelf, out of direct line-of-sight to visitors, was a copy of the old Bill of Rights . . . The First Amendment had been gutted, according to Sarah, and the former protection of the others limited. Most people didn't seem to mind. Rakkim had once read that burning the flag actually used to be considered free speech. The complete elimination of the Second Amendment had been more controversial. There were old-timers still bitching about that, but they had turned in their guns, just like everybody else. No guns allowed, not for private citizens." There is also a great quote about how many people come to pay tribute to the martyrs and how Americans before the Transition did not honor their heroes and their war dead properly. Very interesting . . . |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 8:54:22 PM EDT
[#30]
What's shocking is that anyone would buy it.
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Posted: 3/22/2006 9:04:25 PM EDT
[#31]
Why? It is a good read and a nice wake up call to people who don't think Islam is a threat. I hope that it sells well and engenders many hard conversations. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 9:04:40 PM EDT
[#32]
No, not really. Some of the Muslims are good, and a hero is Jewish. And things aren't exactly as they seem in chapter one. |
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Posted: 3/22/2006 9:07:31 PM EDT
[#33]
It is a good read. The Islamic United States is portrayed as sinking into second-rate-dom, swerving into third-rate-dom, and there are serious issues raised about the ability of moderate Muslims to resist the fundamentalists.
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Posted: 3/23/2006 1:14:13 AM EDT
[#34]
Okay, I bought this book at 4 PM and I just finished it at 5 AM. I wasn't even reading straight through - I stopped for hapkido class. I guess it was good.
The ending was interesting. I still want to know who The Old One is. I also want to know what happens next to the Islamic Republic - if the freedoms lost are regained or if people stop being Muslim because they found out they were being lied to about their history. I give it 11 imams out of 12. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 2:01:04 AM EDT
[#35]
Well... No shit. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 4:25:53 AM EDT
[#36]
Hispanics (including illegals) are converting to Islam at a surprising rate - and also to evangelical Protestant Christianity. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 4:54:55 AM EDT
[#37]
Very plausible. Islamic teachings appeal to people who are put off by the secularly materialistic AND those who have low self-esteem, low station in life. I've read a few articles citing each as reasons they converted. The most recent one I read was an American woman (IIRC some sort of medical professional) who converted b/c of the former reason - this was a National Geographic issue from a few years back. The teachings of Islam give these people a way to get outside themselves and feel like they are daily part of something bigger than people. That can either be an improvement to their life or a dangerous thing, depending on how they are steered. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 7:05:27 AM EDT
[#38]
I don't think that the people who became atheists or agnostics by leaving their parents' religion are going to be the ones converting. But the children of atheists? Ripe for the picking . . . Someone loan me a rocketship so I can leave this crazy assed planet. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 7:24:04 AM EDT
[#39]
tag for home
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Posted: 3/23/2006 7:27:30 AM EDT
[#40]
What's up with that? Personally, I'd become a Mormon before I'd become a Muzzie. At least I like Mormons. 
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Posted: 3/23/2006 10:23:15 AM EDT
[#41]
I'll have to admit I don't see Islam as a threat. Our society is far to secular, the only thing your average American today cares about is what the TV tells them to care about. They aren't longing for religion or spiritual salvation from any source, they're looking for the next great reality show or wringing their hands over the bullshit spewed by the news. We aren't going to have a holy war. We aren't going to fight the Muslims on our own soil, we aren't being indoctrinated by the gays, and while Democrats are certainly irritating they aren't the ones we'll be fighting either. The federal government is the enemy. The government sees you as a source of income, no matter which party is at the head of it. They want you meek, working, taxpaying, and unable to fight back. Everything else is diversionary propaganda. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 10:55:35 AM EDT
[#42]
Seems hard to believe, but look at Iran. I'm sure its rulers thought the samething before its conquest by Islamic forces. ETA: You can see what's left of them in the Metropolitan Museum of Art. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 2:08:48 PM EDT
[#43]
Our society is very secular. But look at American history to see how often a dominantly secular order has been overturned by any of the Great Revivals - mass religious awakenings occurring throughout the country. In the past these awakenings brought people into various "new" Protestant sects . . . Baptists, Pentecostals, 7th Day Adventists, etc. That was becuase all of our immigrants came from nominally Christian countries. But there is nothing to say that the next Great Awakening in the U.S. has to be Christian. The Saudis and other Muslim groups are positioning themselves. What is going on with Latino conversion rates is probably the beginning of something. I might note that in the book the best areas of the country after the Islamic takeover were those with the highest illegal immigrant population - because they clung to their Catholicism in greater numbers than the natives. As to a civil war or any kind of physical conflict - it is not so hard to happen. Looking at the history of revolutions in this country and others it seems that a small but committed minority that justifies to themselves the use of force can generally take control of a larger indifferent population. Very few people in Iran were crazy hardliners, but the crazy hardliners did not hesitate to use force and terror disproportionate to their strength. Same in Russia, 1917. I agree that the federal government is the enemy. But you have to decide whether the current federal government is worse than one that milks you dry with taxation because you are not Muslim and relegates you to second class citizenship. Write your representative? Get a fatwa on you. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 2:15:35 PM EDT
[#44]
is it only in Hardback? might just wait for the cheaper smaller paperback version.
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Posted: 3/23/2006 2:35:08 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 3/23/2006 2:53:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Sounds plausible.
But then, I've always believed professional wrestling is real. |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 3:15:16 PM EDT
[#47]
Islamist who try to convert me will find themselves "Converted to Ambient Temperature!" or i will be but i ain't converting.
And if i am killed well i'll still have the last laugh as i return with christ during his second coming after dying for his sake and clean the gutter slime out along side him. BTW, It won't just be the south killing the self propelled Bed linnens! |
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Posted: 3/23/2006 4:22:51 PM EDT
[#48]
And it is just as bad here in Europe. In parts of France now 50% of those under 30 are Muslim. When they become 51% the Mohammadans and democracy are going to give Europe one hell of a wake up call. The Church is it attacked mercilessly because it teaches that marriage is between a man and a woman and slaughtering your unborn child is a moral poverty. Wait till they get a dose of Islamic "blue laws", and those great Burka fashions making the runways. But can we be certain it is so decided? I doubt it very much. It has always seemed to me possible, and even probable, that there would be a resurrection of Islam and that our sons or our grandsons would see the renewal of that tremendous struggle between the Christian culture and what has been for more than a thousand years its greatest opponent. Why this conviction should have arisen in the minds of certain observers and travellers, such as myself, I will now consider. It is indeed a vital question, "May not Islam arise again?" In a sense the question is already answered because Islam has never departed. It still commands the fixed loyalty and unquestioning adhesion of all the millions between the Atlantic and the Indus and further afield throughout scattered communities of further Asia. But I ask the question in the sense "Will not perhaps the temporal power of Islam return and with it the menace of an armed Mohammedan world which will shake off the domination of Europeans_still nominally Christian_and reappear again as the prime enemy of our civilization?" The future always comes as a surprise but political wisdom consists in attempting at least some partial judgment of what that surprise may be. And for my part I cannot but believe that a main unexpected thing of the future is the return of Islam. Since religion is at the root of all political movements and changes and since we have here a very great religion physically paralysed but morally intensely alive, we are in the presence of an unstable equilibrium which cannot remain permanently unstable. Let us then examine the position. I have said throughout these pages that the particular quality of Mohammedanism, regarded as a heresy, was its vitality. Alone of all the great heresies Mohammedanism struck permanent roots, developing a life of its own, and became at last something like a new religion. So true is this that today very few men, even among those who are highly instructed in history, recall the truth that Mohammedanism was essentially in its origins not a new religion, but a heresy. Like all heresies, Mohammedanism lived by the Catholic truths which it had retained. Its insistence on personal immortality, on the Unity and Infinite Majesty of God, on His Justice and Mercy, its insistence on the equality of human souls in the sight of their Creator_these are its strength.  ~ Hilaire Belloc |
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