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Posted: 3/22/2006 9:15:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/25/2006 2:00:27 PM EDT by NAKED-GUNMAN]
I've got some questions about a deployment in 1984-85. I think I have a poser on another board just wanted to go over some facts and protocol to se if he's legit.


He got owned ..his lies got deeper and deeper, then another board member found someone who was on the ship he was supposed to be on. Anyway, he claimed he went to C school and was assigned to a Spruance class ship...he got owned with some more questions..he still did not quit. Amazing. I am now wondering if it is illegal to pose a navy sailor? He now blathers about how he cannot remember what an OBA was or what drills they performed..and cannot divulge the Spruance ship because of security.

He's a gotdammed liar. I just wish we could turn his putrid ass in to authorities.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:48:25 AM EDT
Wasnt in in 85, was busy with being 14 years old. But I'm in now so maybe I can help..
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:52:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2006 9:54:17 AM EDT by LWilde]
I deployed to the Western Pacific and the North Arabian Sea in 1985 aboard a Spruance class DD. We were part of the Constellation BG. We hit several ports all over the IO and Westpac during our cruise.

Send your questions.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:57:21 AM EDT
Active duty, travelled all over WESTPAC back then. Watcha wanna know?
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 10:19:47 AM EDT
P-3 orion anti submarine warfare.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 10:22:05 AM EDT
Submarine door gunner.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 10:22:59 AM EDT
Constellation BG 1981-83, on the USS Oldendorf.
What's your question?
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 11:21:16 AM EDT
Ok here goes the guy's credentials..he started out by telling he was a gunner's mate on the USS Detroit.

And here's the rest:

I have stated already on this board. I served under President Reagan. I graduated from Highschool class of 83. I was in bootcamp when the Marine bunker was hit in Beirut. I sailed with the New Jersey in the med in 84. I took part in the Multi National Peace Keeping Campaign Beirut Lebanon. I was a Gunners Mate in the Navy. I left the Navy with an Honorable Discharge.


I checked and while he was in bootcamp the Marine barracks were attacked. The Detroit shipped out and was in service from Oct. 20th until May the next year. The Barracks were attacked on October 23rd...while this guy was still in boot camp, so I ask him how did he get on his supposed "orders" to a ship are already in battle?

His reply:
I flew from Creat on a C-2 and landed on the JFK. I was taken by Sea Knight over to my ship the very next day.

Well then I asked why would they do that?

He says:

"My original orders were to go to Diego Garcia.....But the Med was my critical. My ships orders changed my mine did not. I was in Clark Airforce base trying to get to my ship when they told me , that my ship was not in the IO....13 days later in beautiful SUBIC BAY Uncle sam finaly got my orders straight....Left Manila to Japan, from Japan no stop flight to New York. Left New York to Phily....Phily to Scotland, ...Then to Creat....I left Creat on a C2 and landed on the JFK."


I am not sure of his NEC but he told us he was gunner's mate on the Detroit working with ammunition and oil??

Plus this:

My original orders were to go to Diego Garcia in the IO, so I can hook up with my ship. My ship was going to take part in Greneda, however the powers to be felt that they would better served by goint to the Med. In route to my ship I was stoped at Clark , that is were I had first knowledge that I was going to the freaking wrong Ocean. I spent 13 days in Subic...the goverment cut me a new set of orders. I have to add, there were 5 others besides myself that this happen to. Once we all got our new orders we left Subic to Manilla ....in route to my ship .

He said that he did not know what ship he was to be on until he got orders??


Can you USN's help you try to out this character? SOmething does not sound right...he keeps bashing the present military and acts as though he knows everything about everything.

Thanks.

Ask me anymore question if you'd like..I'd really like to expose this poser. I just know he is.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 11:22:25 AM EDT
Also this tidbit..we asked him why the orders were changed:

"The Detroit at one point in time was given orders to go to Greneda. Those orders changed.....or were canceled.....My orders were based upon a set of orders given to the Detroit that if would be in Diego Garcia. I was going to link up with my ship at Diego Garcia...That never happen....My orders stayed the same and the Detroits orders were changed."
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 11:28:15 AM EDT
He went right from bootcamp to the boat? What about A school, or am I getting the timeline mixed up?

But it does happen that guys are moved around via helo to their ship and to carriers as intermediate stops.. The Navy does some goofy shit and I would guess that GM's were in high demand on BB's right then..

Or he may be full of shit..

Link Posted: 3/22/2006 11:33:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Valkyrie:
He went right from bootcamp to the boat? What about A school, or am I getting the timeline mixed up?

But it does happen that guys are moved around via helo to their ship and to carriers as intermediate stops.. The Navy does some goofy shit and I would guess that GM's were in high demand on BB's right then..

Or he may be full of shit..




Yeah he said he did A school in the great lakes...but why would they put him directly into a battle group? A support ship for the New Jersey is what he said. Part of the mutli-national task force or whatever.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:33:52 PM EDT
First of the Detroit is not a BB. It's an AOE - Fast Combat Support Ship, basically carrying POL and Ammunition. It's Crete btw


From navysite.de/ships/aoe4.htm (Not sure how accurate it is, since it's a German site)

DETROIT departed Norfolk on 25 June 1981 for her eighth Mediterranean deployment. She serviced SIXTH Fleet and NATO units and participated in the missile exercises in the Gulf of Sidra, when two Libyan aircraft were shot down by F-14 Tomcats from USS NIMITZ (CVN 68). DETROIT returned to Norfolk on 8 November 1981.

In January 1982, DETROIT began her second shipyard overhaul at NORSHIPCO’s Berkeley Yard in Chesapeake, Virginia. The focus of this overhaul was in the engineering plant and the crew’s living quarters. Her defensive capability was also upgraded by the addition of two Vulcan-Phalanx Close-In Weapons Systems (CIWS). DETROIT left NORSHIPCO in January 1983.

On 20 October 1983, DETROIT departed for deployment with the SIXTH Fleet. While in the Mediterranean, DETROIT was the principal Combat Logistics Force ship supporting U.S. and Allied units of the Multi-National Peacekeeping Force, in Beirut, Lebanon.

Throughout the height of the crisis, DETROIT provided logistical support to two carrier battle groups, the NEW JERSEY (BB 62) Battle Group and the deployed Marine Amphibious Ready Group. When she returned to Norfolk on 2 May 1984, DETROIT had completed 301 replenishments, a new ship’s record.

In February 1985, DETROIT completed an extensive three-month repair availability. From July through October 1985, she participated in fleet exercises in the Caribbean, as well as in Ocean Safari 85 operating above the Arctic circle in Norway’s Vestfjord. In August 1985, DETROIT successfully completed the first Operational Propulsion Plant Examination given to an AOE by the CINCLANTFLT Propulsion Examination Board.

In March 1986, DETROIT departed Norfolk for her tenth deployment with the SIXTH Fleet in the Mediterranean. She supported in three carrier operations off the coast of Libya in March and April 1986. In September 1986, she returned to Norfolk. The summer of 1988 found DETROIT back in the European theater, participating in Exercise Teamwork 88 replenishing U.S. and NATO allies in the Norwegian fjords.

I'ld have to say there is a possibly moderate BS quotient in there about going the long wrong way around. It's not impossible, if he was traveling from his home of record in the western US after his getting out of school leave, and the Navy expected his ship to be going into the IO (Indian Ocean), they might route him via Clark and then on to Subic and then to Diego Garcia. If the ships orders were changed, and they then had to fly him to the ship, then going the long way around is possible and actually probably more likely than what appears to be the shorter logical route. We didn't have a lot of people or planes flying from Clark/Cubi to Singapore and on to Diego Garcia and even fewer flights/seats going from DGar. You had to have a damn high priority to go that way (the DGAR to Med segment) and a fresh out of school white hat would not have the priority. And yeah depending on what your routing was a lucky sailor could end up in Subic for a few weeks if your ships operational schedule was changing faster than the people moving system could react. While MAC would be flying probably daily flights and/or lots of chartered seats on commercial air from the PI back to the states, across the states and then to the Med. MAC or commercial to Crete and C-2 to the JFK and helo is very likely true.

It was in Spring of 84, I transferred into the CO MSC SouthEast Asia reserve unit as ACSO for Ops & Plans. COMSCSEA was operational and administrative commander of the SS Santa Juana, the ship that made the regular logistics run from Guam to Subic to singapore to DGar and back. Almost all regular priority freight went to DGar on the Santa Juana. High Priority items and most people would get flights out to DGar. So while not an expert on the details, I can substantiate that it was at least possible.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:38:43 PM EDT
Flying new guys to the nearest flat top and transferring them on to their ultimate ship by helo hasn't changed since then, either. I used to unload guys for my battle group all the time while on the Kitty Hawk circa 1998-2000. HSL-51 was always happy to have a reason to do a log run over to us, as we had their mail...
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:48:05 PM EDT
I went directly from A school to a CVA. Nothing odd about that.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 9:54:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/22/2006 9:57:32 PM EDT by JS98010]

Originally Posted By Unknown1Sailor:
Flying new guys to the nearest flat top and transferring them on to their ultimate ship by helo hasn't changed since then, either. I used to unload guys for my battle group all the time while on the Kitty Hawk circa 1998-2000. HSL-51 was always happy to have a reason to do a log run over to us, as we had their mail...



Ahh. . . "The Warlords"

Exercise Foal Eagle '97, it seems like they (U.S. Army, et. al) didn't like HSL-51's JANAP callsign and it was temporarily changed to "Warlord". Something about having "fire" in a callsign wasn't kosher.

Back to the subject at hand. . .

USS Detroit (AOE 4) carried lots o' boom-boom. So, I can see where a Gunner's Mate or two would be required onboard. The other reason to have some GMs would be for the small arms. Otherwise, I can't see the absolute "need" to get a boot GM out there right fuckin now to a ship that has no offensive / defensive weapons systems maintained by GMs. The NATO Sea Sparrow system is maintained by Fire Controlmen (FC) with the Navy Enlisted Classification (NEC) 1147. Unless they couldn't live without a GMGSA to do some magazine sprinkler PMS, the BS factor is about midscale (these are sea stories after all).

If he's telling the truth, he'd start his story with, "This is no shit. . ."

ex-ET2
USS Rodney M. Davis (FFG 60) 1997-2001
USN 1995 -2001



ETA: Maybe he did bootcamp, three weeks of "apprenticeship training" and went to the fleet undesignated? GM is a rate that you can OJT and strike for. . .
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 10:02:27 PM EDT
Direct from Japan to Philly?

I flew from Sig to Philly and we stopped for fuel in the Azores.
Link Posted: 3/22/2006 10:39:53 PM EDT
I was AO on the Nimitz with VF-84 from 80-83 and In Lebanon on and off in 83 and 84 with HC-4.
The JFK, New Jersey and Detriot where all part of the Battle Group on Station at the time

His Travel Orders seemed screwed, but anything was possible back then, I just dont ever remember meeting a lot of Sailors from the West Coast over in the Med, but like I said anything was possible

Link Posted: 3/23/2006 5:34:19 AM EDT
Thanks guys...there's really no way to call him on this. I feel like he has taken someone's else's service career and used it for himself. He is a flaming liberal that actually supports the terrorist actions against our nation. He constantly beats down our military, supports every moonbat theory and tries legitimize his post with "I served"...gets old. I cannot believe this guy every saluted the flag by the way he talks.

Dunno...wish I could find a way to get to the truth..other members have asked for patches, awards or whatever that he could take a picture of and post.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 5:45:52 AM EDT
Based on the info provided, he sounds legit.

I too was carted all over the Pacific and IO searching for my ship. I spent a couple of weeks in Subic (Tough duty! ) waiting for her to arrive. Then flew a C-141 to Deegar then BACK to Subic when my ship diverted there rather than visit Oz.

For now...I'd believe him. Nothing sounds too out of the ordinary.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 5:55:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:
Thanks guys...there's really no way to call him on this. I feel like he has taken someone's else's service career and used it for himself. He is a flaming liberal that actually supports the terrorist actions against our nation. He constantly beats down our military, supports every moonbat theory and tries legitimize his post with "I served"...gets old. I cannot believe this guy every saluted the flag by the way he talks.

Dunno...wish I could find a way to get to the truth..other members have asked for patches, awards or whatever that he could take a picture of and post.



Anyone know where GM A school was during that time frame?

Link Posted: 3/23/2006 6:07:04 AM EDT
Not former navy, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn once. Just because the guy is a moonbat liberal and disagrees with you doe not mean he did not serve. I have met many former military people who are flaming liberals. Some of them family (and yes I have seen the proof). So you got to have more information. My guess once he finished his schooling he was sent to his ship. The military is on the job training, they give you the basic skills and let the units you serve with hon those skills
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 6:17:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eagle1911:
Not former navy, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn once. Just because the guy is a moonbat liberal and disagrees with you doe not mean he did not serve. I have met many former military people who are flaming liberals. Some of them family (and yes I have seen the proof). So you got to have more information. My guess once he finished his schooling he was sent to his ship. The military is on the job training, they give you the basic skills and let the units you serve with hon those skills



Yes that is true...there are tons of raving liberals from all walks.

But I think he is specifically lying. DOn't know if it can be proved either way.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 6:21:09 AM EDT
I was in from feb 1986 to feb 1990 sounds legit I had orders to an ffg out of school which were changed to a fast attack sub tender. They do do weird shit. Guy sounds legit to me. Ask him what division he was in in boot camp or what duty section he was in on his ship. Ask him if he got a battle E during this time.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 6:22:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Valkyrie:

Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:
Thanks guys...there's really no way to call him on this. I feel like he has taken someone's else's service career and used it for himself. He is a flaming liberal that actually supports the terrorist actions against our nation. He constantly beats down our military, supports every moonbat theory and tries legitimize his post with "I served"...gets old. I cannot believe this guy every saluted the flag by the way he talks.

Dunno...wish I could find a way to get to the truth..other members have asked for patches, awards or whatever that he could take a picture of and post.



Anyone know where GM A school was during that time frame?






Great lakes
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:09:55 AM EDT
He said he had M-16's and mk75 grande launcher in their small arms lockers on board?? This was in 1984..could this be? He did not know what his self defense missile weapon was, "flying metal" is what he said and I mentioned he had the seasparrow..he then changed his story and said yeah, we had the sparrow. He did not even know what his missile defesne weapon on board was. It is getting good now.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:24:46 AM EDT
I think he finally slipped up, gun lockers in the 80's did have bloop guns but they didn't have
M-16's they had M-14's.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:28:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JoeTexas:
I think he finally slipped up, gun lockers in the 80's did have bloop guns but they didn't have
M-16's they had M-14's.



I cant vouch for that but it seems plausable since there still a bunch of M14's in our inventory. Hell, we have a ton used for lauching lines...
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:40:55 AM EDT
I think he is stunned right now..he is trying to laugh off the MK reference saying the ship's "security" had them.

ANd this..."We also had the Mark 75 greneda launcher, also m60, 50 cal. Shot guns and the 45 cal. I think we used a M14 for shark watch. "



Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:41:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/23/2006 7:42:54 AM EDT by NAKED-GUNMAN]
And this...
"prove it....prove they did not have m16s in the med. LOL "

Anyone have a answer for that?

"or go to the link I gave you.....Do you think that is the true speed of the ship. Or do you think that is the speed of the ship that the Navy wants you to know....It is on a need to know basis. The material that you are reading is on a need to know basis. If you are stating that the Navy did not have m16 on ship in their Armory then that is what the Navy wants you to know.

I am telling you that we were not able to pull into port...in some locations because we could neither confirm or deny that we had special weapons.......What is that telling you. The Navy does not give up all its secrets to the people who dont need to know. "

This smells of bull shit.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:44:05 AM EDT
"The only person that carried a gun on our ship , was the watch. He carried a 45, with three clips. No clip in the gun. The Armory had m16. with out going into to much detail. We had ordance aboard our ship. I can neither confirm or deny we had special weapons. In order to protect those special weapons if we did have them or if we didnt have them we had what we need to protect them."

??????????????
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 7:57:51 AM EDT
Back then the Navy had M-14's and the MARDET (Marines) had M-16's on board.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:00:42 AM EDT
The quarterdeck watch carried a .45 with 3 mags of 5 rounds each (gun was not loaded) The
same for the Rover in port. Ships had/have grenade launchers, M60s, .50 cals, pump 12 gauge
shotguns, 1911s and M14's (A FEW WERE AUTO). I'm not going to say that no ship had M-16s just that I was on a destroyer from 84-88 and amphib from 88-90 and I never saw an M-16 in a
gun locker. (The Marines had their M16's in secured racks in their berthing on the amphib).
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:26:08 AM EDT
We still have 20 odd M-14s in my air station's armory, including 2 with the happy switch. We also have a metric buttload of M-16s, most of which are M-16A3s (A1 lower [marked as such] with an A2 upper).
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:39:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JoeTexas:
The quarterdeck watch carried a .45 with 3 mags of 5 rounds each (gun was not loaded) The
same for the Rover in port. Ships had/have grenade launchers, M60s, .50 cals, pump 12 gauge
shotguns, 1911s and M14's (A FEW WERE AUTO). I'm not going to say that no ship had M-16s just that I was on a destroyer from 84-88 and amphib from 88-90 and I never saw an M-16 in a
gun locker. (The Marines had their M16's in secured racks in their berthing on the amphib).



He said his ship was the Detroit and he had no idea what missile defesne system was on that ship, he said they had "flying metal" as their defense system.

Claims to have the EBR M-16 or M-16 on board plus the blooper gun, M60 and .50 cal. And he did not tell me what he qualed in..he only said he qualed on the deck of the carrier.

Mumbles about ports and drinkng beer..gave no NEC and calls himself a knuckle dragger..I personally think he has taken someone's else's experiences as his own.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:43:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bwyatt:
P-3 orion anti submarine warfare.



Since you are from LA, any time in VP-94?
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:46:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:
He said he had M-16's and mk75 grande launcher in their small arms lockers on board?? This was in 1984..could this be? He did not know what his self defense missile weapon was, "flying metal" is what he said and I mentioned he had the seasparrow..he then changed his story and said yeah, we had the sparrow. He did not even know what his missile defesne weapon on board was. It is getting good now.



Generally his story sounds plausible. The "flying metal" sounds more like a CIWS reference than Sea Sparrow. Gunner's Mates don't do much with missiles though. M-16s vs. M-14s - maybe he remembers it wrong. I deployed on Detroit in Oct01-Mar02. The roving topside watch carried an M-14, but there were M-16s in the armory as well as SAWs, M-60s, and M-2s.

Ask him what the Detroit's nickname is/was and what her homeport was (Earle, NJ). Most folks who don't know what they are talking about will say Norfolk or Jax.

Ask if the Dirty D had "specials" onboard. If they did the Marine Security that would go with those weapons may have had M-16s.

Ask him what watches he stood underway and inport, where his berthing compartment was, what his UNREP station was, what his GQ station was. Ask him what an OBA is, what NIFTI is, and what to do in a man overboard situation. These are things that he wouldn't forget.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:52:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By H46Driver:

Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:
He said he had M-16's and mk75 grande launcher in their small arms lockers on board?? This was in 1984..could this be? He did not know what his self defense missile weapon was, "flying metal" is what he said and I mentioned he had the seasparrow..he then changed his story and said yeah, we had the sparrow. He did not even know what his missile defesne weapon on board was. It is getting good now.



Generally his story sounds plausible. The "flying metal" sounds more like a CIWS reference than Sea Sparrow. Gunner's Mates don't do much with missiles though. M-16s vs. M-14s - maybe he remembers it wrong. I deployed on Detroit in Oct01-Mar02. The roving topside watch carried an M-14, but there were M-16s in the armory as well as SAWs, M-60s, and M-2s.

Ask him what the Detroit's nickname is/was and what her homeport was (Earle, NJ). Most folks who don't know what they are talking about will say Norfolk or Jax.

Ask if the Dirty D had "specials" onboard. If they did the Marine Security that would go with those weapons may have had M-16s.

Ask him what watches he stood underway and inport, where his berthing compartment was, what his UNREP station was, what his GQ station was. Ask him what an OBA is, what NIFTI is, and what to do in a man overboard situation. These are things that he wouldn't forget.



Very good H46, could provide the answers to the acronyms for me? And remember this deployment was in '84-'85..he says they did not have Marines on board providing security. Were you deployed in that time frame? Any other info would be good..he is all over the place with his answers..says he played cards on top of seasparrows and gave powder to the Jersey for her guns. I think he is reading someone else's bio. He uses generalizations.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 8:58:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:

Originally Posted By H46Driver:

Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:
He said he had M-16's and mk75 grande launcher in their small arms lockers on board?? This was in 1984..could this be? He did not know what his self defense missile weapon was, "flying metal" is what he said and I mentioned he had the seasparrow..he then changed his story and said yeah, we had the sparrow. He did not even know what his missile defesne weapon on board was. It is getting good now.



Generally his story sounds plausible. The "flying metal" sounds more like a CIWS reference than Sea Sparrow. Gunner's Mates don't do much with missiles though. M-16s vs. M-14s - maybe he remembers it wrong. I deployed on Detroit in Oct01-Mar02. The roving topside watch carried an M-14, but there were M-16s in the armory as well as SAWs, M-60s, and M-2s.

Ask him what the Detroit's nickname is/was and what her homeport was (Earle, NJ). Most folks who don't know what they are talking about will say Norfolk or Jax.

Ask if the Dirty D had "specials" onboard. If they did the Marine Security that would go with those weapons may have had M-16s.

Ask him what watches he stood underway and inport, where his berthing compartment was, what his UNREP station was, what his GQ station was. Ask him what an OBA is, what NIFTI is, and what to do in a man overboard situation. These are things that he wouldn't forget.



Very good H46, could provide the answers to the acronyms for me? And remember this deployment was in '84-'85..he says they did not have Marines on board providing security. Were you deployed in that time frame? Any other info would be good..he is all over the place with his answers..says he played cards on top of seasparrows and gave powder to the Jersey for her guns. I think he is reading someone else's bio. He uses generalizations.



I was USN 1990-2000. Sub EM.

UNREP - Underway Replenishment (of course, subs didn't really do this more than tossing a few boxes of bananas from the tugboat).

GQ - General Quarters.

OBA - Oxygen Breathing Apparatus - insert canister into chestplate, pull tab on O2 starter candle, makes oxygen to breathe in a fire.

NFTI - Naval Firefighters Thermal Imager - guy with the NFTI directs the motions of the nozzleman on a fire hose because they can see where the fire is thru smoke. Also used to find people down.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:27:29 AM EDT
Ask him if it is true, that most Gunners Mates are wannabe Aviation Ordnanceman


That should get him fired up a little bit
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:28:23 AM EDT
Sir, having worked as a US Navy civilian for over thirty years, and having been stationed in Naples Italy, for seven years I do have some background of the circumstances you inquire. In the early eighties I was in the med onboard Nimitz quite a few times, and later the Eisenhower. As far as I know Detroit was home ported in Norfolk at that time, it wasn't until later in the eighties and early nineties they move some of the "combat support" ships to Earle, NJ.

According to the 1983 version of Janes I have at my dest Detroit was armed with NSSMS and CIWS systems at the time. I've had the opportunity to work on many ships deployed in the Med and SW asia both underway and inport, particularly when I was stationed in Naples. Inport roving watches in the Med commonly carried M-14s and shotguns, QD watches were usually armed with .45s. While I can't say for certain the ship's armory did not have M16s, but I believe it would be unlikely at that time. Other small arms in ships armories generally included most of those already mentioned. GMs are responsible for the armories and have little if anything to do with the ship's air defense systems.

Lastly, in the early eighties is was highly unusual for a CV battle group to traverse the Suez canal, at the time it would happen on a CVN almost never and only in the most dire emergency. Since we kept a carrier battle group deployed in the IO most of the time east coast carriers deployed there normally got there via the long way. Detroit however would be a different story. When conventionally powered CV battle groups are deployed they like to keep ships like Detroit near, however depending on the circumstances with a CV battle group also in the IO at the time the need for refueling can be daily. It all depends on how many of this type ship they have available for unreps. Transportation specialists in the US are the last to be informed of theater changes of individual ships, so sending him to the IO instead of the med would not be an uncommon snafu. Back in the early '80s transport to DG via Hickam and Clark AFB was normal, but since we moved out of PI last time I went to DG was by MAC from Norfolk, via Azores, Rota, Naples, Sigonella, and Bahrain.

Combat support ships generally did not have marine detachments aboard unless Special Service ammunition was also aboard. CVs or CVNs normally had marine detachments aboard for that purpose because they also had the delivery systems, smaller ships generally did not.

Detroit also normally had two CH-46s stationed onboard while deployed. Helo transport between ships is quite common so it would be routine for passenger transport with the mail to the smaller ships of the BG. Mail is normally delivered to the CV via COD from Sigonella on the C2s. The CV then distributes it to the other ships of the BG and helo would be the most common means of transport. I personally have flown from an airport to a carrier underway and also from one ship to another many times aboard a wide variety of aircraft.

Air transport to a ship underway in the arabian Gulf is normally via the Bahrain deployed "Desert Ducks". If the ship is in the northern IO, air transport is normally via Fujarrah, UAE. Depending on the location of the ship air transport from Souda Bay in Crete or Sigonella in Sicily is provided by aircraft from those two locations.

In summary, except for having M16s in the ships armory your friends story sounds quite plausible. HTH, 7zero1.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:46:24 AM EDT
Something that I had completly forgotten about until you guys started talking about "flying metal".
We had a missle defense system in addition to CIWS onboard USS Goldsborough DDG-20. It
was simply a cluster of tubes on each side of the signal bridge. If a missle were inbound and
right on top of us, they could fire a cloud of aluminum foil chaffe either port or starboard. The
theory being is that it would fool the missle into aiming for the center of the cloud instead of the ship.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:53:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JoeTexas:
Something that I had completly forgotten about until you guys started talking about "flying metal".
We had a missle defense system in addition to CIWS onboard USS Goldsborough DDG-20. It
was simply a cluster of tubes on each side of the signal bridge. If a missle were inbound and
right on top of us, they could fire a cloud of aluminum foil chaffe either port or starboard. The
theory being is that it would fool the missle into aiming for the center of the cloud instead of the ship.



USS GOLDSBOROUGH (DDG 20) never had CIWS or any other "point defense" system. The only missile defense she had was her Standard 1 missiles and her two 5" 54cal Mk 42 mod 10 guns. After her conversion in 1984, she had a 3rd missile channel installed as part of the Mk 86 GFCS.

The tubes of which you speak were for the Super-Rapid-Blooming-Chaff or SRBOC. As you mentioned, she had them on either side of the signal bridge.

Now...how would I know? Well, I should since I was one of the Tactical Action Officers in DDG 20 after her '80s conversion. Goldy Maru was my home for almost three years.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 10:58:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Ask him if it is true, that most Gunners Mates are wannabe Aviation Ordnanceman


That should get him fired up a little bit



Hah!

A fargin BB stacker! (aka a "Redshirt")
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:01:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LWilde:

Originally Posted By dpmmn:
Ask him if it is true, that most Gunners Mates are wannabe Aviation Ordnanceman


That should get him fired up a little bit



Hah!

A fargin BB stacker! (aka a "Redshirt")




I was always told "Red Shirts Rule, All Others Drool"



Just remember without AO's it is just another unscheduled flight

Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:16:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LWilde:

Originally Posted By JoeTexas:
Something that I had completly forgotten about until you guys started talking about "flying metal".
We had a missle defense system in addition to CIWS onboard USS Goldsborough DDG-20. It
was simply a cluster of tubes on each side of the signal bridge. If a missle were inbound and
right on top of us, they could fire a cloud of aluminum foil chaffe either port or starboard. The
theory being is that it would fool the missle into aiming for the center of the cloud instead of the ship.



USS GOLDSBOROUGH (DDG 20) never had CIWS or any other "point defense" system. The only missile defense she had was her Standard 1 missiles and her two 5" 54cal Mk 42 mod 10 guns. After her conversion in 1984, she had a 3rd missile channel installed as part of the Mk 86 GFCS.

The tubes of which you speak were for the Super-Rapid-Blooming-Chaff or SRBOC. As you mentioned, she had them on either side of the signal bridge.

Now...how would I know? Well, I should since I was one of the Tactical Action Officers in DDG 20 after her '80s conversion. Goldy Maru was my home for almost three years.



I don't know about the Goldy but on the Berkeley the EW supervisors had authority to launch the chaff.

This guy sounds legit to a point, and some of the answers he gives may be vauge, but I would probably answer them the same way, esp considering special weapons.

Some ships were moving to the M-16 from the M-14 early on in the 80's also remember this was a fast combat support ship, they had munitions and arms of all sorts.

.45's were as described and the standard load out and carry procedure was correct.

And the GM's were not the brightest lights on the tree.......

No offense to any GM's on board, they knew their job well, but didn't seem to aware of other things around them.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:18:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolf_Warrior:

Originally Posted By bwyatt:
P-3 orion anti submarine warfare.



Since you are from LA, any time in VP-94?



No, lot of good friends that were.I spent my time in VP-68 and VP-MAU. Sadly VP-94 along with most reserve p-3 outfits was recently shut down.Main reason being for 94 at least was Katrina.The rest of the fleet is being parked daily due to airframe fatigue.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:28:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By epeescott:

Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:

Originally Posted By H46Driver:

Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:
He said he had M-16's and mk75 grande launcher in their small arms lockers on board?? This was in 1984..could this be? He did not know what his self defense missile weapon was, "flying metal" is what he said and I mentioned he had the seasparrow..he then changed his story and said yeah, we had the sparrow. He did not even know what his missile defesne weapon on board was. It is getting good now.



Generally his story sounds plausible. The "flying metal" sounds more like a CIWS reference than Sea Sparrow. Gunner's Mates don't do much with missiles though. M-16s vs. M-14s - maybe he remembers it wrong. I deployed on Detroit in Oct01-Mar02. The roving topside watch carried an M-14, but there were M-16s in the armory as well as SAWs, M-60s, and M-2s.

Ask him what the Detroit's nickname is/was and what her homeport was (Earle, NJ). Most folks who don't know what they are talking about will say Norfolk or Jax.

Ask if the Dirty D had "specials" onboard. If they did the Marine Security that would go with those weapons may have had M-16s.

Ask him what watches he stood underway and inport, where his berthing compartment was, what his UNREP station was, what his GQ station was. Ask him what an OBA is, what NIFTI is, and what to do in a man overboard situation. These are things that he wouldn't forget.



Very good H46, could provide the answers to the acronyms for me? And remember this deployment was in '84-'85..he says they did not have Marines on board providing security. Were you deployed in that time frame? Any other info would be good..he is all over the place with his answers..says he played cards on top of seasparrows and gave powder to the Jersey for her guns. I think he is reading someone else's bio. He uses generalizations.



I was USN 1990-2000. Sub EM.

UNREP - Underway Replenishment (of course, subs didn't really do this more than tossing a few boxes of bananas from the tugboat).

GQ - General Quarters.

OBA - Oxygen Breathing Apparatus - insert canister into chestplate, pull tab on O2 starter candle, makes oxygen to breathe in a fire.

NFTI - Naval Firefighters Thermal Imager - guy with the NFTI directs the motions of the nozzleman on a fire hose because they can see where the fire is thru smoke. Also used to find people down.


NFTI's weren't around in '84-'85.

I was in the IO in '85 on an SSN, sounds like he is just pumping up a rather mundane assignment on an AO. Hell it was rather mundane on an SSN, lots of ocean in the IO but the cold war was on and we did do "things".

Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:40:49 AM EDT
Good point about the NFTI.

I don't think I saw them in boot camp, and I don't think my first boat had them when I got there - they arrived later.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:48:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NAKED-GUNMAN:

Very good H46, could provide the answers to the acronyms for me? And remember this deployment was in '84-'85..he says they did not have Marines on board providing security. Were you deployed in that time frame? Any other info would be good..he is all over the place with his answers..says he played cards on top of seasparrows and gave powder to the Jersey for her guns. I think he is reading someone else's bio. He uses generalizations.



Looks like you got your acronyms decoded. Was I deployed in '84-85?

I'm old, but not crusty old like PaDanby and LWilde. I "deployed" in July of '85 to my home-away-from-home on the Severn, USNA.
Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:53:10 AM EDT
I was a VP sailor. I would have been in Misawa during the 84/85 timeframe. Sandwiched in between two Dodge deployments. He travel arrangements don't seem all that odd, although flying out of Manila sounds a bit shakey since there was so much military transport in and out of PI it doesn't make a lot of sense for him to have been sent commercial. But stranger things have been down by the Navy.

Link Posted: 3/23/2006 11:56:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GarethB:
Submarine door gunner.



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