www.breitbart.com/news/2006/03/22/060322081757.e1blb1k1.html

President George W. Bush said he was opposed to amnesty or automatic citizenship for the some 12 million undocumented immigrants in the United States.

Amid an intense debate over the issue among US lawmakers, Bush on Tuesday ruled out amnesty for illegal immigrants but said he favored a "guest worker" program that would provide legal status for workers for a limited time period.

"In my judgment, amnesty would be the wrong course of action," Bush told a news conference.

He said "a whole industry" of exploitation had emerged with workers being smuggled across the US border in dangerous conditions.

"The best way to do something about it is to say that if an American won't do a job and you can find somebody who will do the job, they ought to be allowed to do it legally on a temporary basis," Bush said.

Asked about those undocumented workers who have lived in the US for more than a decade, Bush said: "One of the issues is going to be to deal with somebody whose family has been here for a while, raised a family, and that'll be an interesting debate.

"My answer is: That person shouldn't get automatic citizenship."

Bush's comments came as a showdown looms in Congress over rival proposals on immigration reform and a day after the Mexican government bought full-page advertisements in major US newspapers to set out their stance on the issue.

"Mexico does not promote undocumented migration," the advertisement read in the New York Times and other newspapers.

Mexico supports "a safe, orderly guest worker program" but acknowledges the need for incentives such as housing credits to encourage the return of temporary workers to Mexico, said the advertisement, which was based on a document produced by Mexican legislators, government officials, academics and other experts.

"A guest worker program designed to process the legal temporary flow of workers will allow Mexico and the United States to better comabt criminal organizations specialized in the smuggling of migrants and the use of false documents...," the advertisement said.

The issue has split Bush's fellow Republicans in Congress, some of whom have pushed for strict enforcement measures on the US-Mexico border without providing the possibility of legalizing those undocumented workers already settled in the United States.

The Senate Judiciary Committee has yet to agree on reforms while the House of Representatives has already voted for the construction of a wall along the US border with Mexico to stop illegal immigration, as well as severe penalties for violations of immigration laws.

Bush warned that illegal immigration was "an emotional issue" and if the debate was "not conducted properly," it would "send signals that I don't think will befit the nation's history and traditions."

People can hate this man for a varity of reasons. I like him because he is a man of principle and I think he really cares and thinks for himself about what comes out of his mouth.

Quoted: www.breitbart.com/news/2006/03/22/060322081757.e1blb1k1.html President George W. Bush said he was opposed to amnesty or automatic citizenship for the some 12 million undocumented immigrants in the United States. Amid an intense debate over the issue among US lawmakers, Bush on Tuesday ruled out amnesty for illegal immigrants but said he favored a "guest worker" program that would provide legal status for workers for a limited time period. "In my judgment, amnesty would be the wrong course of action," Bush told a news conference. He said "a whole industry" of exploitation had emerged with workers being smuggled across the US border in dangerous conditions. "The best way to do something about it is to say that if an American won't do a job and you can find somebody who will do the job, they ought to be allowed to do it legally on a temporary basis," Bush said. Asked about those undocumented workers who have lived in the US for more than a decade, Bush said: "One of the issues is going to be to deal with somebody whose family has been here for a while, raised a family, and that'll be an interesting debate. "My answer is: That person shouldn't get automatic citizenship." Bush's comments came as a showdown looms in Congress over rival proposals on immigration reform and a day after the Mexican government bought full-page advertisements in major US newspapers to set out their stance on the issue. "Mexico does not promote undocumented migration," the advertisement read in the New York Times and other newspapers. Mexico supports "a safe, orderly guest worker program" but acknowledges the need for incentives such as housing credits to encourage the return of temporary workers to Mexico, said the advertisement, which was based on a document produced by Mexican legislators, government officials, academics and other experts. "A guest worker program designed to process the legal temporary flow of workers will allow Mexico and the United States to better comabt criminal organizations specialized in the smuggling of migrants and the use of false documents...," the advertisement said. The issue has split Bush's fellow Republicans in Congress, some of whom have pushed for strict enforcement measures on the US-Mexico border without providing the possibility of legalizing those undocumented workers already settled in the United States. The Senate Judiciary Committee has yet to agree on reforms while the House of Representatives has already voted for the construction of a wall along the US border with Mexico to stop illegal immigration, as well as severe penalties for violations of immigration laws. Bush warned that illegal immigration was "an emotional issue" and if the debate was "not conducted properly," it would "send signals that I don't think will befit the nation's history and traditions."

Wait a second...wasn't mexico handing out pamphlets and having tv commercials on how to sneak into the united states a while ago? What a load of crap.

How about instead of a guest worker program, we have a guest inmate program...if you are an 'undocumented alien' you can be a guest in the nearest federal pound me in the ass prison.

Quoted: ... I like him because he is a man of principle and I think he really cares and thinks for himself about what comes out of his mouth.

bwahahahahahh

I needed a good laugh this morning.

Thanx.

( he did a great job on immigration as governer of Tx- didn't he???)

Dupe...www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=448072

Its a start. Jorge seems to be backpeddling a little in the correct direction

Quoted: I like him because he is a man of principle and I think he really cares

Agreed...

Quoted: and thinks for himself about what comes out of his mouth.

I'm not so sure about that.

We have to come to reality here...No person is going to ever give us what we want, a secure border.

As much as I want a wall that goes 40 feet down and 100 feet up...it aint going to happen.

For me, I like hearing that Bush doesn't want to hand out amnesty. You can bash him all you want on the other stuff, fine...But I must say as the leader of this country, amongst others, he is the only one saying that.

McCain? He is a democrate that wont do a thing either, as all of them prior.

Clinton? She aint going to do a thing either.

They can all make promises, but the only promise keepers I know of so far has been Reagan and Bush.

I wish his handlers would make up their mind on this issue alerady!  

Quoted: Quoted: Asked about those undocumented workers who have lived in the US for more than a decade, Bush said: "One of the issues is going to be to deal with somebody whose family has been here for a while, raised a family, and that'll be an interesting debate." In other words, "I don't want to talk about that part of it yet. We'll jam this down America's throat one unsavory bite at a time."

An interesting debate?  How about get the fuck out?

If you want to come here as a foreigner, do it legally (like I did).

Quoted: I listened to his whole speech yesterday.  I was about 80+% in agreement with his ideas.  I'd readily vote for this man for a third term if it was possible.

Same here.

Quoted: Quoted: I listened to his whole speech yesterday.  I was about 80+% in agreement with his ideas.  I'd readily vote for this man for a third term if it was possible. Same here.

Agreed +3

I'm with some of the above posts. It's not that Americans won't do the jobs, its that employers don't want to pay American wages when they can pay 4 'guest workers' the same wage as 1 citizen.

Here in Panama City Florida, construction workers frequently call local AM talk shows and let people know that they want their job, and need to work, and are willing to work, but the contracting companies have figured out that they can line their pockets by paying the same wage that they would normally pay one person to two or three or four illegal immigrant workers. The condo business is booming here, but the construction is being done by 'guest workers' who cram 12 people into one apartment and work for 1/4 what a legal U.S. citizen usually gets paid.

And our local LE has their hands tied, anytime they pick up some illegals they are told to transport them to Jacksonville where ICE and INS are based. Neither of these two organizations will come to us. When our small City and County police forces inform ICE and INS that they do not have the resources to transport 40 illigal aliens to Jacksonville, ICE and INS tell them: "Hold them yourself, or cut 'em loose, we can't come get them'. Since our LE cannot trasport large amounts of illegals, they also can't hold them, so they let them go.

So far it hasn't affected our crime rates noticebly, but then drugs, prostitution and several other undesirable criminal activities have been flourishing in certain parts of town for years. I'm guessing we'll just see a rise in those areas soon.

P.S. our good 'ol boy loacal gov is enjoying the extra revenue that is generated by the new condos used by tourists, that are built by illegals and my tax dollar which helps pay for non-english speaking children to attend over-crowded schools which have the lowest GPAs in the state.  

It's just the usual political two-faced double-speak.

They've redefined the meaning of the word "amnesty" so they can now claim that they are not in favor of it.


What they ARE in favor of, is letting illegals stay legally in the U.S. for an unlimited amount of time (for all practical purposes).  Yeah, that sure doesn't sound like "amnesty" to me.  

Quoted: It's just the usual political two-faced double-speak. They've redefined the meaning of the word "amnesty" so they can now claim that they are not in favor of it. What they ARE in favor of, is letting illegals stay legally in the U.S. for an unlimited amount of time (for all practical purposes).  Yeah, that sure doesn't sound like "amnesty" to me.

guest worker=amnesty.

I'll believe it when he does more than offer lip service.

Quoted: It's just the usual political two-faced double-speak. They've redefined the meaning of the word "amnesty" so they can now claim that they are not in favor of it. What they ARE in favor of, is letting illegals stay legally in the U.S. for an unlimited amount of time (for all practical purposes).  Yeah, that sure doesn't sound like "amnesty" to me.

+1

The devil is in the details folks. Don't get fooled by all the political double talk, because the President's position on illegals has not changed one bit!  

Quoted: Quoted: "The best way to do something about it is to say that if an American won't do a job and you can find somebody who will do the job, they ought to be allowed to do it legally on a temporary basis," Bush said. This is backwards logic. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. There are just jobs the wages for which illegal immigrants have driven down to the point where they're not worth the money offered. There's a HUGE difference between the two. I have split and stacked wood, dug ditches, done landscaping, cleaned chicken coops in the summertime and framed houses. None of these were very pleasant, but this was 20+ years ago, before illegals drove down the wages for such work to the vanishing point.

+1.  You know we're in big trouble when even the President is spouting this uninformed drivel.  Yeah Americans don't want to work under the table for $2/hr because it's ILLEGAL just like these people's PRESENCE.

I love the free market folks saying that "they're here to do jobs Americans" won't do.  Pay me $40/hr and benefits and I'll pick fruit or haul concrete.

Illegal immigration in this country has two purposes.

1) Subsidize Mexico so they won't politically and ecomonically implode

2) Destroy organized labor

I've been given a staunch warning on ARFCOM in regards to my anti illegal alien stance. In light of that I now say:

Amnesty for all immigrants!

w00t!




The new and improved pro-illegal alien undocumented migrant 89grand.

Quoted: Asked about those undocumented workers who have lived in the US for more than a decade, Bush said: "One of the issues is going to be to deal with somebody whose family has been here for a while, raised a family, and that'll be an interesting debate."

WTF!???

Oh go fuck yourself you double-talking, Mexico-butt-kissing ASSHOLE!!!

When do we ever have an "interesting debate" about what to do with law-breakers who have a family????

Car thieves have a family and have been here a long time too and so do we now have to have an "interesting debate" about whether to arrest and imprison them!???

Embezzelers have a family and have been here a long time too and so do we now have to have an "interesting debate" about whether to throw them in jail!???

Tax-evaders have a family and have been here a long time too and so do we now have to have an "interesting debate" about whether to throw them in jail!???

Muggers, burglars, purjorers, identity-thieves, bank robbers, drug-dealers, prostitutes, shoplifters... they ALL have families and they ALL have been here a long time and so do we now have to an "interesting debate" about whether to ENFORCE ANY OF THESE LAWS and arrest and punish any of THESE criminals too!???????

Mr. President, with no due respect - you are a fucking retard and traitor to our nation's laws!!!

Go fuck yourself and the illegal-alien horde you rode in on you cocksucking, Aztlan-supporting, border-erasing, America-destroying ASSHOLE!!!!

Quoted: How about instead of a guest worker program, we have a guest inmate program...if you are an 'undocumented alien' you can be a guest in the nearest federal pound me in the ass prison.

Yeah, spend my tax dollars to jail these scum and see how I feel about it then.

Quoted: Quoted: "The best way to do something about it is to say that if an American won't do a job and you can find somebody who will do the job, they ought to be allowed to do it legally on a temporary basis," Bush said. This is backwards logic. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. There are just jobs the wages for which illegal immigrants have driven down to the point where they're not worth the money offered. There's a HUGE difference between the two. I have split and stacked wood, dug ditches, done landscaping, cleaned chicken coops in the summertime and framed houses. None of these were very pleasant, but this was 20+ years ago, before illegals drove down the wages for such work to the vanishing point.

There are plenty of high school dropouts who won't even take a dishwashing job because it is "beneath their dignity", as if there is any dignity in taking welfare all their lives.

Just because you and I would bust our asses doing any kind of job, there are plenty who think it is more dignified to sit at home and collect undeserved benefits.

Quoted: Its a start. Jorge seems to be backpeddling a little in the correct direction

His name is George and he is not backpedaling.  You apparently believed all the media bullshit about how he would grant amnesty, etc.

Quoted: I wish his handlers would make up their mind on this issue alerady!

Maybe you should stop listening to the media telling you what he has supposedly said in the past.

Quoted: You apparently believed all the media bullshit about how he would grant amnesty, etc.

His "guest-worker" plan IS amnesty! There's no way it's NOT an amnesty!

According to the Bush Plan outlined in another thread,  he favors a "guest worker" program that would provide legal status for workers for a limited time period.

And THEN what!??

What happens when the time limit runs out?..... they become "ILLEGAL" again. And we're right back at square one - 10,000,000 "ILLEGAL" immigrants who need to be rounded up and deported.

Bullshit. ANYTHING offered by this adminstration for dealing with illegal immigrants is simply a facade. It's kicking the can down the road by giving illegal aliens 3, 4, or 6 years of a free ride here.

And THEN when their new "guest worker visa" expires they're expected to just willingly go back to Mexico and get in line and wait a year or so for citizenship!!!??? What a crock of shit!

And in the mean time, where do these illegal aliens live and work and commit the crimes that Americans don't want to for the 3,4 or 6 years that they are GRANTED "guest worker" status!?? Not in Mexico like all the others who are trying to immigrate here LEGALLY! They get to stay here, live here, work here AND collect all the WELFARE BENEFITS, FREE SCHOOLING and FREE MEDICAL CARE that NO OTHER PERSON in Mexico awaiting legal immigration gets to have!

All this does is simply DELAY the enforcement of CURRENT immigration laws, ENCOURAGE even more illegal immigrants,  REWARDS these criminals and felons for continuing to break our laws by coming here illegally and REWARDS employers for continuing to encourage and enable these criminals to remain here.

Quoted: Quoted: You apparently believed all the media bullshit about how he would grant amnesty, etc. His "guest-worker" plan IS amnesty! There's no way it's NOT an amnesty! According to the Bush Plan outlined in another thread,  he favors a "guest worker" program that would provide legal status for workers for a limited time period. And THEN what!?? What happens when the time limit runs out?..... they become "ILLEGAL" again. And we're right back at square one - 10,000,000 "ILLEGAL" immigrants who need to be rounded up and deported. Bullshit. ANYTHING offered by this adminstration for dealing with illegal immigrants is simply a facade. It's kicking the can down the road by giving illegal aliens 3, 4, or 6 years of a free ride here. And THEN when their new "guest worker visa" expires they're expected to just willingly go back to Mexico and get in line and wait a year or so for citizenship!!!??? What a crock of shit! And in the mean time, where do these illegal aliens live and work and commit the crimes that Americans don't want to for the 3,4 or 6 years that they are GRANTED "guest worker" status!?? Not in Mexico like all the others who are trying to immigrate here LEGALLY! They get to stay here, live here, work here AND collect all the WELFARE BENEFITS, FREE SCHOOLING and FREE MEDICAL CARE that NO OTHER PERSON in Mexico awaiting legal immigration gets to have! All this does is simply DELAY the enforcement of CURRENT immigration laws, ENCOURAGE even more illegal immigrants,  REWARDS these criminals and felons for continuing to break our laws by coming here illegally and REWARDS employers for continuing to encourage and enable these criminals to remain here.

I rarely +1 to a thread, but in this case +1.

Quoted: Its a start. Jorge seems to be backpeddling a little in the correct direction

Rule #1 re politicians. It ain't what they say, it's what they DO.

ETA

..All this does is simply DELAY the enforcement of CURRENT immigration laws, ENCOURAGE even more illegal immigrants, REWARDS these criminals and felons for continuing to break our laws by coming here illegally and REWARDS employers for continuing to encourage and enable these criminals to remain here...

That about sums it up, Mac.

Quoted: Quoted: Its a start. Jorge seems to be backpeddling a little in the correct direction His name is George and he is not backpedaling.  You apparently believed all the media bullshit about how he would grant amnesty, etc.

What word would you use to describe a program that allows criminal illegal aliens to legally live and work in the United States?

Quoted: Quoted: Its a start. Jorge seems to be backpeddling a little in the correct direction His name is George and he is not backpedaling.  <Snip>

If he was an American Indian his name would be "Lying Buffalo That Walks Backwards".

Quoted: Quoted: There are plenty of high school dropouts who won't even take a dishwashing job because it is "beneath their dignity", as if there is any dignity in taking welfare all their lives. Just because you and I would bust our asses doing any kind of job, there are plenty who think it is more dignified to sit at home and collect undeserved benefits. That's a completely different issue, and one not likely to be solved by screwing with immigration policy.

It addresses the statement that there are no jobs that Americans won't take.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Its a start. Jorge seems to be backpeddling a little in the correct direction His name is George and he is not backpedaling.  <Snip> If he was an American Indian his name would be "Lying Buffalo That Walks Backwards".

And yours would be "full of shit and knows nothing".

Quoted: And yours would be "full of shit and knows nothing".

I know enough to capitalize someone's Indian name, thus proving you are dull of wit and speaking with a forked tongue.

Quoted: Quoted: And yours would be "full of shit and knows nothing". I know enough to capitalize someone's Indian name, thus proving you are dull of wit and speaking with a forked tongue.

No, I purposely used lower case when applying it for you.

Quoted: Quoted: It addresses the statement that there are no jobs that Americans won't take. No, you're trying to change the terms of the debate in midstream. You're trying to address the problem that there are Americans who won't take the job no matter what the wage is. I'm trying to address the problem that there are Americans who want to work, but can't find a job that will pay a decent wage because illegal immigrants have driven down wages. Two separate issues, like I said. Anytime you want to have an honest debate on the facts, I'm your man.

I was addressing this one remark:

There are no jobs that Americans won't do.

I don't agree with that statement.  I am not trying to change anything, just disagreeing with that remark because there are jobs that some Americans won't do out of some inflated sense of self-worth regardless of any other issue.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: And yours would be "full of shit and knows nothing". I know enough to capitalize someone's Indian name, thus proving you are dull of wit and speaking with a forked tongue. No, I purposely used lower case when applying it for you.

Oh.  Well, in that case I'd better not argue with you Larry: it's obvious that you're just too sharp for me!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: It addresses the statement that there are no jobs that Americans won't take. No, you're trying to change the terms of the debate in midstream. You're trying to address the problem that there are Americans who won't take the job no matter what the wage is. I'm trying to address the problem that there are Americans who want to work, but can't find a job that will pay a decent wage because illegal immigrants have driven down wages. Two separate issues, like I said. Anytime you want to have an honest debate on the facts, I'm your man. I was addressing this one remark: There are no jobs that Americans won't do. I don't agree with that statement.  I am not trying to change anything, just disagreeing with that remark because there are jobs that some Americans won't do out of some inflated sense of self-worth regardless of any other issue.

If that was truly the case, who used to do all of these jobs before the illegal invasion?

Have we not always had resturants, hotels, fast food joints, lawn services, etc?

Name one thing we did NOT have in this country before illegal aliens invaded? Bet you can't name one. Maybe you should peddle the pro-Bush, pro-illegal stuff somewhere else because it doesn't seem like many are buying into it.

This was a great give-an-take with the audience.

GW's doing a great job of getting the message out and this message will PO Fox bigtime.

HH

Quoted: Quoted: Asked about those undocumented workers who have lived in the US for more than a decade, Bush said: "One of the issues is going to be to deal with somebody whose family has been here for a while, raised a family, and that'll be an interesting debate." WTF!??? Oh go fuck yourself you double-talking, Mexico-butt-kissing ASSHOLE!!! When do we ever have an "interesting debate" about what to do with law-breakers who have a family???? Car thieves have a family and have been here a long time too and so do we now have to have an "interesting debate" about whether to arrest and imprison them!??? Embezzelers have a family and have been here a long time too and so do we now have to have an "interesting debate" about whether to throw them in jail!??? Tax-evaders have a family and have been here a long time too and so do we now have to have an "interesting debate" about whether to throw them in jail!??? Muggers, burglars, purjorers, identity-thieves, bank robbers, drug-dealers, prostitutes, shoplifters... they ALL have families and they ALL have been here a long time and so do we now have to an "interesting debate" about whether to ENFORCE ANY OF THESE LAWS and arrest and punish any of THESE criminals too!??????? Mr. President, with no due respect - you are a fucking retard and traitor to our nation's laws!!! Go fuck yourself and the illegal-alien horde you rode in on you cocksucking, Aztlan-supporting, border-erasing, America-destroying ASSHOLE!!!!

I agree.

I generally like the guy and agree with him.

But that son of a bitch needs to do secure the borders and our nation TODAY!!!

Before there are more illegals than Americans.

I'm just curious when the tipping point is. When our society starts to go under enough for most people to notice. I hope it doesn't but does anyone forsee a time when regular people just say f-it.

I'm referring to the injustice of the fact that illegals can do basically whatever they want without repercussions. I wonder if anyone else ever feels that our illegals are the only true free people left in America.

Quoted: I'll believe it when he does more than offer lip service.

Don't hold your breath.

Apparently he has most here hoodwinked.

PAGING LARRYG...PAGING LARRYG

Still waiting for your response to my last post. On this thread and other thread.

Too Little Too Late, IMHO!

There are no jobs that Americans won't do.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I don't agree with that statement. I am not trying to change anything, just disagreeing with that remark because there are jobs that some Americans won't do out of some inflated sense of self-worth regardless of any other issue.

LARRYG-
No way.  If you believe in a free market, then you have to have to understand supply and demand.  Illegal immigration is simply a way for employers to skip out of the supply and demand contract because illegals will work for less and depress wages.  Without illegals, the jobs would go unfilled until some mechanism (increased wages or mechanization) would eliminate the requirement to fill the job.

Bush et al don't see the illegal problem because:

1) Their job isn't affected
2) Their children's schools aren't affected
3) Their hospital and emergency services aren't affected
4) The are able to undercut the cost of labor in the US and reap the windfall
5) Their property values aren't affected.

Illegal immigration is the one of the top three issues facing the American body politic, and Bush has spent years tap dancing around the issue.  Look, I'll give credit to the President when due (he was correct on the Dubai PW issue and he was right on Social Security reform) but immigration isn't one of them.

Immigration shows how beholden the Republican Party is to certain interests.

Quoted: I've been given a staunch warning on ARFCOM in regards to my anti illegal alien stance. In light of that I now say: Amnesty for all immigrants! w00t! The new and improved pro-illegal alien undocumented migrant 89grand.

I think you're correcting yourself because you can't make a very good decision as to their legal or illegal status