Sometimes I think many members here day dream and masturbate about the thought of someone walking across their yard just so they can kill someone.

Quoted: I believe you are hitting on an important point here. In my grandfather's day, if you were on a neighbor's lawn and the neighbor did not want you there, your parents would first warn you sternly, and then whoop your tail if the neighbor caught you on his lawn again. If that still didn't teach you, they would force you to be the man's slave for a weekend helping care for his lawn. If you still didn't get the point, they would enslave you for longer periods of time, take away anything you liked, and generally make your life extremely unpleasant until you got the message. In that day, kids had respect for adults. You spoke to an adult with respectful terms, and when they told you to stop something, you listened. Because your parents would wear you out double if they found out you were disrespectful. You didn't mess with people. You didn't mess with their property. If you did, your parents would come down on you like the fist of an angry God. We don't see that happening today. It is high time we dusted that concept off and re-introduced it to modern society.

How true you are.

I live on the end of the cul-de-sac and have kids walking through my yard all the time.  I put up a fence to keep them out of my yard.

Last week I saw kids walking up my driveway, head for the fence, and as soon as I said hey, they broke, ran for the fence and jumped over.

I almost caught the fat bastard, but couldn't find where they went.

I felt old as I told them they need to learn some respect.  

Wish parents taught their kids respect for other people's property, whether it is real estate or other material posessions.

Quoted: Martin, 66, allegedly told police he had several times had problems with neighbors walking on his lawn

I heard the report too.  They said he was involved in a "dispute" with the neighbors.  I suppose this would be the one time the media gets the story 100% right and fully reports all the facts huh?

Whatever,  Maybe the whole neighborhood was in danger of him busting out the 410 for looking at his grass wrong.  I'm betting there was far more back-story.  I've never seen a case like this where there wasn't.

Harrassing for 5 years? totally unacceptable.  Beware of who you harass. Karma's a bitch

I bet everyone stays off his yard now.  

It isn't right but if you keep messing with someone long enough then they are going to react.  And the longer it takes them to react the more severely they are going to react.

I'm 18 and kids have no respect today.  

-Dan.

Quoted: he had several times had problems with neighbors walking on his lawn There's more to this story than the Anti-Gun Media wants to tell us.

Yep...alot more, I 'd be willing to wager that we won't hear much of it though.

Quoted: Sometimes I think many members here day dream and masturbate about the thought of someone walking across their yard just so they can kill someone.

Where do you get that?  I haven't seen one post in support of his use of deadly force.

Nowadays 15 is hardly a 'child', and I am sure he wasn't just running on to the lawn to retrieve a pop-fly ball from the pickup sandlot baseball game across the street.  If my neighbor asks me to stay off their lawn, that's what I do.

Having said that, I also hate crazy old people, and had several run ins with a guy just like this as a kid.  When I was growing up we lived about three blocks from a city park, and used to walk there all the time.  The park was on a lake, and there were lots of ducks and geese there.  One old man used to hang out at the park all day and harass the kids who came to play there for 'scaring the ducks'.  He called the police numerous times apparently, because they stopped responding to his complaints after a while.  He would follow us around cursing us under his breath and IIRC grabbed my cousin by the arm and shook him once while I was not there.

Quoted: I bet everyone stays off his yard now.

Dan, the old man won't be around to know if anyone's walking on his grass now.  Hopefully, he'll die in prison.

HH

Quoted: Not that I approve of him killing the kid, but this needs to be a wakeup call to little shits who harrass the wierd old guy in their neighborhood. It's all fun and games fucking with the old man till you take two shells to the chest. Everyone has their snapping point... live your life with respect for other people and you have a lot better chance of not dying young. JMHO

+1

Having some kid fuck with something I obviously care about for 5+ years would piss me off too.  

Are the parents morons, or do they also let the kid fuck with neigbors?

As far as we know, this was the first time the kid walked on his lawn.  Maybe the guy is nuts.  Maybe he was pissed that kids in general (not necessarily this kid) was walking on his lawn.  There is nothing to suggest that the kid was at fault in any way.

Whatever the reason, pops should fry.

Quoted: Quoted: I bet everyone stays off his yard now. Dan, the old man won't be around to know if anyone's walking on his grass now.  Hopefully, he'll die in prison. HH

Guess no one ever fucked w/ you just to fuck w/ you.

He had a reasonable request.  It was an unreasonable response.  But . . .

-Dan.

Quoted: One this is for sure. In the occupied state of MD, this guy would be charged with murder, unless he can prove his life was at risk. That little SOB walking in the guys yard, however irritating and childish it might have been didn't justify shooting.  It was just the last straw for the homeowner.

There is not a state in the Union where this guy would not be charged with murder 1 for shooting someone for walking on their lawn.

Quoted: Quoted: Not that I approve of him killing the kid, but this needs to be a wakeup call to little shits who harrass the wierd old guy in their neighborhood. It's all fun and games fucking with the old man till you take two shells to the chest. Everyone has their snapping point... live your life with respect for other people and you have a lot better chance of not dying young. JMHO I believe you are hitting on an important point here. In my grandfather's day, if you were on a neighbor's lawn and the neighbor did not want you there, your parents would first warn you sternly, and then whoop your tail if the neighbor caught you on his lawn again. If that still didn't teach you, they would force you to be the man's slave for a weekend helping care for his lawn. If you still didn't get the point, they would enslave you for longer periods of time, take away anything you liked, and generally make your life extremely unpleasant until you got the message. In that day, kids had respect for adults. You spoke to an adult with respectful terms, and when they told you to stop something, you listened. Because your parents would wear you out double if they found out you were disrespectful. You didn't mess with people. You didn't mess with their property. If you did, your parents would come down on you like the fist of an angry God. We don't see that happening today. It is high time we dusted that concept off and re-introduced it to modern society.

Oh, it still happens today, it's just isolated.

ALL of my sons can tell you that they got MANY O' behind the woodshed whoopin's for disrespect, messing with people and generally being goofballs which helped them learn thier manners "johnny on the spot". The 24 yr old, the 18 year old and the 16 year old will call YOU "Sir" or "Mr. <Insert your last name here>, the 18 and 24 year old will address YOU that way until you tell them to address you otherwise. The 16 year old will STILL call you SIR or Mr. regardless if you tell him he can call you by your first name, until he's a man, that's the rule. They've grown to become some very polite young men with good manners and respect for others. (Probably better men than I am) They will tell you "Oh no! Dad doesn't play that modern stuff and I've got the boot prints to prove it". Now, the 4 year old daughter, she'll learn the ways of being polite and respectful as needed as she gets older. I've slacked in MANY things, but,  my kids wern't one of 'em. I've got some good boys, IMHO.

Meh, I don't really feel sorry for either party here.

what a stupid thing to do

i find this funny though
ORINGINALLY POSTED BY: CLEMENT
"I never had any problems with him, and I don't know that anyone else did," he said.
Copyright 2006 by The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

a more recent update of the story from cincinnati enquirer online

link


'I just killed a kid'
This time when 15-year-old Larry Mugrage walked by, Charles Martin had a shotgun
BY WILLIAM A. WEATHERS | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER
UNION TOWNSHIP - Fifteen-year-old Larry Mugrage was on his way home to get a video game when he was shot dead, said a neighbor whose teenage stepsons and brother were regular playmates of the victim.

"He was just walking home," Alicia Holt said.

The afternoon shooting followed a confrontation four hours earlier between the teen and another neighbor, 66-year-old Charles Martin, after Mugrage had stepped on the lawn of Martin's Hawthorne Drive home, Holt said.


"He came out cussing at Larry," said Holt, 24, who lives several houses away from Martin's and Mugrage's homes on the same side of the street. "They just had words."

Union Township police have charged Martin with murder. Police said Martin fired two rounds from a .410-gauge shotgun at the teen. An autopsy will determine if more than one blast struck the victim.

Martin called 911 Sunday to report the shooting.

"I just killed a kid," he calmly told the 911 operator.

Martin said the victim, his parents and other youths had been harassing him for five years.

"I shot him with a (word deleted) .410 shotgun twice," Martin said. "He's laying in the yard."

Investigators plan to present the case to a grand jury Wednesday, Lt. Scott Gaviglia said.

Martin was arraigned Monday afternoon in Clermont County Municipal Court. Judge James A. Shriver ordered him held without bond pending a Thursday hearing.

Martin, handcuffed and dressed in an orange jail uniform, did not speak during the hearing. He remains in the Clermont County Jail.

Assistant Clermont County Prosecutor Mark Tekulve had requested that Martin be held without bond, calling the shooting "essentially a premeditated act" that was both "cruel" and "cowardly."

"We understand the young man was in the street when the shooting occurred," Tekulve said.

Assistant Public Defender Lauri Viney told the judge that Martin was a retired employee of the Ford Motor Co., where he had worked for 30 years, and that he had no criminal record.

Residents of Hawthorne Drive said Martin lived alone, and they would often see him walking in the neighborhood.

John Abegglen, assistant superintendent of the West Clermont School District, said the Clermont County Crisis Response Team spent the day at Glen Este High School, where Mugrage was a freshman in the School of American Studies.

Ten counselors were on hand to assist students and staff who expressed a need to talk about Mugrage's death. Three of the counselors were assigned to attend all of Mugrage's classes in case they were needed during conversations in the classroom. Abegglen expects the crisis team to be at school for a few more days.

"He was a very good student," Abegglen said of Mugrage. "He loved to play soccer. He was well-liked by his schoolmates."

In a letter sent home Monday with students, Glen Este Principal Dennis Ashworth outlined crisis resources available to the district's students and gave parents advice on how to help their children deal with the traumatic event.

"The West Clermont community experienced a great loss yesterday with the sudden death of one of our ninth-grade students, Larry Mugrage," Ashworth's letter said. "This news has saddened our community. Larry will be greatly missed."

Sunday, Holt's 13-year-old brother, who also lives in the neighborhood, was walking with Mugrage when Martin first confronted them about walking in his yard. The boys told Alicia Holt about the incident, she said.

Mugrage, who spent the four hours between the confrontation and shooting at her house, "was a good kid," Holt said. "He played soccer. He was good in school. All the kids - even the little ones (in the neighborhood) - loved him. He was best friends with my 14-year-old (step)son. They sat on the (school) bus together."

Mugrage's family declined to speak to reporters Monday.

Holt said she was aware of one other incident when Martin had complained about kids walking across his lawn.

He spoke to her husband, saying he would appreciate it if he'd keep the kids from running through his yard, she recalled.

Martin's lawn is void of ornamentation except for a pole flying American and U.S. Navy flags.

"This is a quiet street," Holt said. "Nothing ever happens here."

Quoted: As far as we know, this was the first time the kid walked on his lawn.  Maybe the guy is nuts.  Maybe he was pissed that kids in general (not necessarily this kid) was walking on his lawn.  There is nothing to suggest that the kid was at fault in any way. Whatever the reason, pops should fry.

Agreed

Disagree - To an extent.  (you are correct that we don't know with certainty so I can't argue that)  Just gut instinct.

The news did a pretty long segment on it this morning and several people said there was some kind of ongoing issue with the kid / shooter / kid's family.

Like I said.  I lived in a samll fued-filled little town and not one time was there a case where the teens of the families involved were not vandalizing or otherwise tormenting the other party.  Like when my grandmother's AC unit went up in flames after a coat hanger was placed in the motor and gasoline poured into it.  All over a petty dispute going back 30 years with people who were not even alive at the time it took place.

Shit like that happened all over town.  Elderly were always targets because they were perceived as easy targets that would just yell and shake their fists.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Lesson of the day....RESPECT PEOPLES PROPERTY! Was shooting the kid stupid? Sure... But if the kid wasn't walking across the old guys lawn, there would have been no problem.... So shooting the mailman is ok also ? If you think walking on his lawn was all that went on your are as dense as a rock.  Dollars to dougnuts this was an ongoing little fued and the parents were involved in all as well. The point is walking across the lawn is what caused pops to lose it. Ive had fueds with the little hood rats running around here. I guess im not dense as a rock as i havent shot any of them yet over minor childish bullshit. You are dense because you equate the mailman walking across the yard to being harrased by a teen and his parents as though the only issue was that a kids foot touched his lawn.   I also never said it was right, just that it is what can happen to you if you keep pushing people's buttons.  I doubt the mailman was ever in any danger. Martin, 66, allegedly told police he had several times had problems with neighbors walking on his lawn

  And the cops did NOTHING.  So gramps did it himself.  I don't condone gramps actions but if the kid stayed off the lawn or the cops made the kid stay off the lawn then it would have all worked out O.K..  Tough shit to the family of the brat.  Teach your kids some respect or deal with consequences.  

Quoted: Martin, 66, allegedly told police he had several times had problems with neighbors walking on his lawn   And the cops did NOTHING.  So gramps did it himself.  I don't condone gramps actions but if the kid stayed off the lawn or the cops made the kid stay off the lawn then it would have all worked out O.K..  Tough shit to the family of the brat.  Teach your kids some respect or deal with consequences.

inital reports here indicated police had not filed a report since 2003

Quoted: Quoted: Martin, 66, allegedly told police he had several times had problems with neighbors walking on his lawn   And the cops did NOTHING.  So gramps did it himself.  I don't condone gramps actions but if the kid stayed off the lawn or the cops made the kid stay off the lawn then it would have all worked out O.K..  Tough shit to the family of the brat.  Teach your kids some respect or deal with consequences.   inital reports here indicated police had not filed a report since 2003

 How many times were cops called to house since 2003?  Just because they didn't make a report doesn't mean they weren't called out.  

Tough one. As a victim of an ongoing fued/harassment, I can understand why the old guy flipped his lid and did something awful. People just have zero respect for others or their property nowadays, in my experience, and the generally don't teach their kids such respect either. I'm sure there are rare exceptions, but I don't see them around here.

Was the shooter/old guy in the wrong, you bet. Was the kid wrong, you bet. I'd bet good money the kid's parents didn't teach him about respect, and when you don't you get kids who run wild like animals.

You harass a guy long enough, and he can't get any resolution through peaceful means, he may just snap on you. Bad things tend to happen. I'd be willing to listen to a temporary insanity defense in such cases if a long history of harassment could be documented, personally.

I feel no pity for the teenager.  Actually, I'm glad that I'll never have to put up with his shit as an "adult".  The shooter was, of course, stupid for doing what he did because of what it will cost him.

People tend not to take this to heart.  

Dennis Jenkins

Quoted: Not that I approve of him killing the kid, but this needs to be a wakeup call to little shits who harrass the wierd old guy in their neighborhood. It's all fun and games fucking with the old man till you take two shells to the chest. Everyone has their snapping point... live your life with respect for other people and you have a lot better chance of not dying young. JMHO

Quoted: a more recent update of the story from cincinnati enquirer online link 'I just killed a kid' This time when 15-year-old Larry Mugrage walked by, Charles Martin had a shotgun BY WILLIAM A. WEATHERS | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER UNION TOWNSHIP - Fifteen-year-old Larry Mugrage was on his way home to get a video game when he was shot dead, said a neighbor whose teenage stepsons and brother were regular playmates of the victim. "He was just walking home," Alicia Holt said. The afternoon shooting followed a confrontation four hours earlier between the teen and another neighbor, 66-year-old Charles Martin, after Mugrage had stepped on the lawn of Martin's Hawthorne Drive home, Holt said. "He came out cussing at Larry," said Holt, 24, who lives several houses away from Martin's and Mugrage's homes on the same side of the street. "They just had words." Union Township police have charged Martin with murder. Police said Martin fired two rounds from a .410-gauge shotgun at the teen. An autopsy will determine if more than one blast struck the victim. Martin called 911 Sunday to report the shooting. "I just killed a kid," he calmly told the 911 operator. Martin said the victim, his parents and other youths had been harassing him for five years. "I shot him with a (word deleted) .410 shotgun twice," Martin said. "He's laying in the yard." Investigators plan to present the case to a grand jury Wednesday, Lt. Scott Gaviglia said. Martin was arraigned Monday afternoon in Clermont County Municipal Court. Judge James A. Shriver ordered him held without bond pending a Thursday hearing. Martin, handcuffed and dressed in an orange jail uniform, did not speak during the hearing. He remains in the Clermont County Jail. Assistant Clermont County Prosecutor Mark Tekulve had requested that Martin be held without bond, calling the shooting "essentially a premeditated act" that was both "cruel" and "cowardly." "We understand the young man was in the street when the shooting occurred," Tekulve said. Assistant Public Defender Lauri Viney told the judge that Martin was a retired employee of the Ford Motor Co., where he had worked for 30 years, and that he had no criminal record. Residents of Hawthorne Drive said Martin lived alone, and they would often see him walking in the neighborhood. John Abegglen, assistant superintendent of the West Clermont School District, said the Clermont County Crisis Response Team spent the day at Glen Este High School, where Mugrage was a freshman in the School of American Studies. Ten counselors were on hand to assist students and staff who expressed a need to talk about Mugrage's death. Three of the counselors were assigned to attend all of Mugrage's classes in case they were needed during conversations in the classroom. Abegglen expects the crisis team to be at school for a few more days. "He was a very good student," Abegglen said of Mugrage. "He loved to play soccer. He was well-liked by his schoolmates." In a letter sent home Monday with students, Glen Este Principal Dennis Ashworth outlined crisis resources available to the district's students and gave parents advice on how to help their children deal with the traumatic event. "The West Clermont community experienced a great loss yesterday with the sudden death of one of our ninth-grade students, Larry Mugrage," Ashworth's letter said. "This news has saddened our community. Larry will be greatly missed." Sunday, Holt's 13-year-old brother, who also lives in the neighborhood, was walking with Mugrage when Martin first confronted them about walking in his yard. The boys told Alicia Holt about the incident, she said. Mugrage, who spent the four hours between the confrontation and shooting at her house, "was a good kid," Holt said. "He played soccer. He was good in school. All the kids - even the little ones (in the neighborhood) - loved him. He was best friends with my 14-year-old (step)son. They sat on the (school) bus together." Mugrage's family declined to speak to reporters Monday. Holt said she was aware of one other incident when Martin had complained about kids walking across his lawn. He spoke to her husband, saying he would appreciate it if he'd keep the kids from running through his yard, she recalled. Martin's lawn is void of ornamentation except for a pole flying American and U.S. Navy flags. "This is a quiet street," Holt said. "Nothing ever happens here."

Not that it would have been justified if he had been on the lawn.  I am beginning to wonder about the number of sociopaths we have on this board.

Martin said the victim, his parents and other youths had been harassing him for five years.

So this kid has been harassing this guy from the age of 10?  Sounds like everyone was out to get this guy.  Conspiracy of the lawn tresspassers!

This guy lays in wait for the kid to come out for 4 hours (after walking on his lawn) and then shoots him.  And some of you see the logic in this?

I am glad some of you don't live in my neighborhood--

My family had a feud with some neighbors a long time ago, I was about 10 and the neighbor’s kids were like 6 and 8.  They would ride their bikes through our yard because the tree had an exposed root right near the house that they liked to jump.  We asked them 10+ times not to do it, finally one day I grabbed a stick and as the older one went to jump it I ran out and stuck it in the spokes of his bike, the little fucker flew off and got a few scratches.  That ended it!  That wasn’t the only things those kids had done to us, they would play with the fuse box, throw rocks at the house and trash in the yard, not to mention they had run into our car before while doing jumps.  Their parents were crack heads and were tons of fun to deal with also

Quoted: I am beginning to wonder about the number of sociopaths we have on this board.

Its a facade. Internet commando tough guys. They probably are hen pecked husbads, or very bitter lonely men with no romance in their lives. Of course some are probably true psychos with some chubby chick in a  hole in the basement.