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Posted: 3/19/2006 6:43:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 6:43:00 PM EDT by Hawkeye]
So, we go out to my friends buddies land on Saturday so we can relax and unload now that spring is near.

We were just about done shooting when a Sheriff trucks pulls up near where our cars were parked. Two of my friends go to check it out while we pack up our stuff. As we are walking out we are greeted by having an M16A1 drawn on us.

Two sheriffs aproach us, and ask us what we were doing.
"Shooting at targets",

"Okay, so if we bring a dog out here we won't even find a feather."

"Well, we are in the woods, birds die naturally."

So we set our guns down, per the instructions from the sheriff, and he asks us to make sure they're unloaded.

We asked why they were here, someone had called the police on us, and they were worried.
He said most people don't know that it's perfectly legal to shoot out in the country on private land.

Okay, so why are we being treated like criminals?

So, they have us open up the gun cases to make sure all guns are unloaded.

We had.

2 - AR15's 9mm&223
1- H&K USP .45
1- Springfield 1911 .45
1- WASR-10 w/drum mags and like a bazillion magazines.
1- Rem side by side 12 gauge.

All unloaded.

So we make small chitchat with these guys, and somehow I get to talking to him about his M16, he says that the department will be going to MP4's pretty soon. I said "Humm, never heard of those."

So they "escort" us back to their vehicles after they run our licenses. 3 of us were clean, the guy whos land we were on came back as having a felony for traffic violations or something.

We get back to the car and they open all the guns and run the serial numbers.

Somehow my AR comes back as 3 guns having the same serial number stolen, in a .45 .22. and .40 cal or something like that.

Well, they say they're going to have to seize my guns, the 1911 and the AR, because they were used in a crime, "What! What crime?"

"Well your friend said he shot it, so it will be used as evidence in court."

"What, he never shot that, I know for a fact, because I don't let anyone shoot it besides me."

Okay, well we've got to make out an evidence sheet.

Well, somehow they go from seizing both my guns, to just taking my pistol for some reason.

So the kid whos land we were on was locked up, and I felt bad, because honestly I don't even think he shot my 1911 anyway. In fact, I know he didn't. Because I only had 3 mags, and I shot them all.

We went to the Sheriffs station to give him his wallet, and it turns out that he will get another felony for "shooting a gun."


Long story short. Don't go to ANYONES land who has a traffic ticket because you will get your fucking Stainless Steel 1911 seized because you're the only one who shot it.

And if you're looking for M16s on the market, some may come from this station, because these guys are getting H&K Mp4's..


I hope I get my pistol back soon, and sucks for the kid, but I guess he must have known.

Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:36:28 AM EDT
Hmm...... that sounds pretty bad, but the "shooting gun" part sounds stupid to me. I dont think there is anything that says that they can take you gun becasue he shot it.....

Post this over in the LEO forum see what they have to say about this.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:37:32 AM EDT
I would be talking to the Sheriff.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:38:16 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:38:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 11:39:07 AM EDT by gaspain]
Dude, are you some kind of dumbass or something? Stop fucking around on the nternet and go get an NRA approved attorney.

at least go TALK to one and get a consult to see if they can help you.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:39:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DM1975:
I would be talking to the Sheriff.



That would be a great idea. Also you might want to ask a lawyer friend if thats even with in leagal boundaries
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:39:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DM1975:
I would be talking to the Sheriff.



that is what you will have to do. and the DA and maybe a lawyer.
lawyer fee may be as high as $1000.00

but did you have fun before the popo showed up?
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:41:53 AM EDT
Go talk to thye Sheriff first, then if you cant get anywhere then talk to the DA and/or a lawyer. I would deffinately be talking to the NRA for sure right now.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:45:46 AM EDT
Where was this in WI???

That is really bad they took your gun.


Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:45:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 11:46:27 AM EDT by Stickman]
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:46:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 11:47:58 AM EDT by MoNkEyTurbo]
Winnebago Co.

Stickman, why would my gun be seized if he didn't even shoot it?

Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:46:43 AM EDT
In most states a felon cannot "be in control" of a firearm. This includes shooting them. He was in control of a firearm. Don't be surprised if you end up charged with something as well. You let a convicted felon shoot your gun, you may want to get to know your shooting buddies a little better.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:48:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:50:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:50:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By MoNkEyTurbo:

3 of us were clean, the guy whos land we were on came back as having a felony for traffic violations or something.

"Well your friend said he shot it, so it will be used as evidence in court."





Don't hang out with felons, the guy with the felony conviction isn't allowed to be around firearms, so yes, there was a crime, and your weapon is evidence of it.

It sounds to me like someone called the police because they knew your friend is a felon. The case is legit, and the seizure of your firearm is legit as well because it was used in a crime (felon in possesion of a firearm). Look at the bright side, it could have been a lot worse.


PS- You don't get a felony for traffic tickets.



In some places, reckless endangerment and extreme speeds can be prosecuted as a Felony. CA is on of those places.

And yes, don't hang out with felons.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:51:05 AM EDT

Lawyer up.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:53:00 AM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:53:58 AM EDT
Thanks for the info guys, not a whole lot of thinking going on durring the whole thing, because I was kinda awestruck as to why there were seizing my 1911.


Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:54:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 11:57:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 11:57:34 AM EDT by Stickman]
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:01:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MoNkEyTurbo:

Long story short. Don't go to ANYONES land who has a traffic ticket because you will get your fucking Stainless Steel 1911 seized because you're the only one who shot it.



Dont let convicted felons near your guns. It doesnt sound like a traffic warrant to me. It sounds like your friend has a felony conviction on his record and as such is prohibited from possessing firearms. Sounds like your "friend" fucked you and told the cops he had been shooting your guns.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:02:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By MoNkEyTurbo:

Long story short. Don't go to ANYONES land who has a traffic ticket because you will get your fucking Stainless Steel 1911 seized because you're the only one who shot it.



Dont let convicted felons near your guns. It doesnt sound like a traffic warrant to me. It sounds like your friend has a felony conviction on his record and as such is prohibited from possessing firearms. Sounds like your "friend" fucked you and told the cops he had been shooting your guns.



+1
Know who is handling your weapons.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:02:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 12:09:22 PM EDT by AR15fan]

Originally Posted By Carter226:
I dont think there is anything that says that they can take you gun becasue he shot it.....




If he in fact shot, or even handled the weapons, they would be evidence/instumentality of the crime in a charge of Felon possess firearm. Did he handle your firearms at all? Even to just admire them? Are they going to find his finger print on them?

I dont think his mere presence near your weapons meets the elements of the crime for Felon possess firearm. However if he handled or shot them, even for a moment, it does.

If the cops are at all competant they will test your friends hands for gunshot residue. they will fingerprint the weapons and obviosly they would have asked hi which weapons belonged to himand which ones he had shot or handled. He may have changed his story on the last one which would explain why they initially were going to take two but finally only collected one as evidence. Should be able to pull good prints off a stainless slide.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:07:49 PM EDT
Stickman is right. One doesn't have to be in ACTUAL POSSESSION of a firearm to be charged with the crime. If the felon has access to the firearm he is as good as guilty (CONSTRUCTIVE POSSESSION). Just as if your friend was in your vehicle and knew the guns were in there also. The firearms were readily availble to the felon.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:11:32 PM EDT
Oh, what's your friends screen name?
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:14:24 PM EDT
You are known by the company you keep. Christ, I sound like my father.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:20:28 PM EDT
I let my roomate borrow a .40 when I was younger, he had a CCW.

The dipshit got pulled over leaving a ND football game and blew a .10. He told them about the gun and the cop took it.

I called the station on Monday and went down there with my receipt from when I had purchased it and they actually gave it back to me. Minus the ammo and a little talk about letting people borrow firearms.



When I was 16 I got caught with my dad's single six shooting rabbits, the cop knew me and just put me in the car and took me home.

Everything was cool because my dad knew I had it, the cop really didn't care he just thought Ihad taken it without my old man knowing.

Small town is a good thing now and then.

Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:21:50 PM EDT
that sucks man sorry to hear that. guess he wasn't your friend after all
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:23:00 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:24:24 PM EDT
I have a few friends that have been in some trouble. Wouldn't take them shooting though. I know you didn't know he was a felon, so there does not seem like much you can do at this point. If I were in your situation, I would go take my receipt and go talk to the sheriff, and politely ask for your gun back. If you act level-headed and treat people decently, you'll be suprised what they will do for you.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:26:09 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:26:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
They aren't going to give back evidence of a crime until after the case is over.

Probably right
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:30:18 PM EDT
Was the guy a convicted felon or did he only have a felony warrant. The outcome for your weapons could be very different for each situation.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:31:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:
Was the guy a convicted felon or did he only have a felony warrant. The outcome for your weapons could be very different for each situation.

How so? I'm interested in the outcome in this.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:32:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By akethan:
I let my roomate borrow a .40 when I was younger, he had a CCW.

The dipshit got pulled over leaving a ND football game and blew a .10. He told them about the gun and the cop took it.

I called the station on Monday and went down there with my receipt from when I had purchased it and they actually gave it back to me. Minus the ammo and a little talk about letting people borrow firearms.







You got lucky.

A friend of mine a DUI. He had a CCW permit but the judge ordered the pistol destoyed as part of the plead bargain on the DUI charge. He also lost his CCW permit obviously and is disqualified fromever getting another under his states "shall issue" law.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:33:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:36:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By wildearp:

In some places, reckless endangerment and extreme speeds can be prosecuted as a Felony. CA is on of those places.





Yes, but that is a crime, its no longer just a traffic vioaltion. The last guy who came back with felon warrants I dealt with who said "I owe on a traffic ticket" really meant he had taken a plea to vehicular homicide. The initial charge was murder.



In Florida if you are a Habitual Traffic Offender it is a 3rd degree felony. Basicaly too many tickets and suspensions on drivers license.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:36:22 PM EDT
Democrats want to make possesing a 1911 , or a AR-15 a "felony"
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:37:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:

Originally Posted By Hostile1:

Originally Posted By FlyingFive0:
Was the guy a convicted felon or did he only have a felony warrant. The outcome for your weapons could be very different for each situation.

How so? I'm interested in the outcome in this.



There is a big difference between being charged with a crime, and being found guilty of it. Of course its very possible that the answer is "both".

I guess there is no point in speculation then. We'll just have to wait to see the outcome of the case?
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:39:21 PM EDT
It sounded like he stated the guy had a felony warrant, no one gets arrested for being a convicted felon, and if he is not a convicted felon then there was no crime committed, if however he is a convicted felon then so sorry.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:39:27 PM EDT
That sucks man, but I too have been guilty of jumping at the chance to shoot/hunt on a "friends" land. Never even considered the possible down sides to the offer.
Actually, I did it twice, on farm land owned by the Aunt of a friend during dove season, and we bagged our limit on both days with ease. I knew 3 of the 5 people we were hunting with, but other than the usual caution when hunting with unknowns, I really enjoyed the time.

Looking back, I can see now where I should have been a little more cautious, but honestly, how do you ask the question "There wont be any felons with us will there?".

I know my friends dont hang out with felons, in fact, most of my friends, with a few exceptions, are current or former military and a few are cops in the civilian world. I guess I expect that they all use the same judgement with their friends and friend of friends that I do with mine.

Tough lesson to learn, but thanks for sharing it with the rest of us.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:42:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Stickman:
Don't hang out with felons, the guy with the felony conviction isn't allowed to be around firearms, so yes, there was a crime, and your weapon is evidence of it.

It sounds to me like someone called the police because they knew your friend is a felon. The case is legit, and the seizure of your firearm is legit as well because it was used in a crime (felon in possesion of a firearm). Look at the bright side, it could have been a lot worse.


PS- You don't get a felony for traffic tickets.



Absolutely right. Your friend screwed you by not telling you he has a felony conviction or you did it to yourself by being ignorant. A felon who shoots a gun is already way into felony territory before he pulls the trigger. It is illegal for him to knowingly be in the presence of firearms let alone handle and shoot them.

Unfortunately, it's going to be a big, expensive battle for you to get those guns back and it's a distinct possibility you won't.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:51:50 PM EDT
even out here in AZ, where i think are some of the most lenient gun laws around, a felon is not supposed to be anywhere near a firearm. a few years ago my cousin was caught doing some stuff that earned him some years in jail and felonies(SP?) on his record. before he was released, the place he was going to live once he got out had to sign some court document that guaranteed there would be no firearms in the residence. now every couple of years my cousin writes the courts in hopes of getting his rights back, but they deny him and i really can't blame them....
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 12:52:57 PM EDT
It doesnt matter the state you live in, a felon can not own a gun period, it might be written into state law also but as far as I know it is federal.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 1:00:51 PM EDT
Well, the best thing you can do right now is use it as a learning experience......

life man........

Link Posted: 3/19/2006 1:03:43 PM EDT
Talk to the DA. Offer to testify against the felon. Ask for your gun to be returned after conviction and immunity for the testimony. If you are a credible witness, you should be able to work that deal.


Too late to worry about being a snitch, etc. The felon f'd you. It's now every man for himself and you want to get in front of it quick.


Link Posted: 3/19/2006 1:04:35 PM EDT
Sorry for the loss man....my 1911s are like my children to me

1. Yes, the police were within the law (and following procedure) when they confiscated the pistol as evidence. End of story. (I am assuming it was confiscated for the felon issue, NOT for the serial number mix-up)

2. Do not bother with an attorney at this stage, unless they will work for free - too expensive compared to the value of the firearm (we arent talking a RR here).

3. Do some investigating. Try and locate the State statute pertaining to the return of evidence used in criminal proceedings. The volumes containing all of your state's laws can usually be found: (1) Public library, (2) law school, (3) State legislature website.

It would be advisable to call the Sheriff's dept., local PD, the DA's office, etc., to try and find an actual statute citation, as it will be difficult to locate it by random searching. You will most likely have to speak with someone "in charge" (or better) to get this kind of information.

Once you've found this, you'll have an idea where you stand. Whether you can get the gun back will most likely hinge on several issues: (1) Did the felon actually use the gun (and can it be proven)? (2) Did you provide the weapon to him knowing he was a felon? (3) Other confusing legal stuff that will take too much time to explain right now.

It would be difficult to predict the outcome not knowing the laws in your state, but if you had no knowledge that the guy was a felon, and no additional crimes were committed by the felon using the firearm with your permission, there is a chance you will get the pistol back.

Just to be realistic, though, I can provide the outcome of a similar case in Colorado. A man loaned his friend a handgun to take for defense/target shooting on a camping trip. Unbeknownst to the man, the friend had a conviction for felony habitual traffic offender (yes, felony TRAFFIC conviction). The friend was pulled over, admitted to having the pistol, it was confiscated, and the friend was arrested. The man, of course , was pissed and wanted his pistol back. Request denied. The police contended that the pistol was knowingly given to the man, and it was used in the commission of a crime (crime being possession of a firearm by felon, NO other crime was committed). The man did not challenge the contention of the police in court, as this would have cost a far greater sum of money than the pistol was worth, but it likely would have ended the same either way. The pistol was melted down. The message being sent is: be careful who you allow to shoot, or borrow, your firearms.

Good luck to you, I hope you get it back.


Link Posted: 3/19/2006 1:09:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DM1975:
It doesnt matter the state you live in, a felon can not own a gun period, it might be written into state law also but as far as I know it is federal.



It is a Fed law that felons cannot possess any firearms or ammunition. However, some state laws differ. In OK, the law was just updated this year to prohibit felons from possessing lang guns. Before this year, a felon could not possess a pistol/ but rifles and shotguns were OK. And the feds would not pick up most cases we ran into of felons possessing long guns unless there were some other circumstances that interested them.

I don't know about WI laws. I do know you guys eat lots of cheese and drink lots of beer.

I hope you get your guns back eventually, but you should pick your friends better. I imagine in your state you can look up his convictions on line to see what he was convicted of (you might be hangin' with chester). It's all public record.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 1:26:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/19/2006 1:29:30 PM EDT by vegas1037]

Originally Posted By MoNkEyTurbo:

Somehow my AR comes back as 3 guns having the same serial number stolen, in a .45 .22. and .40 cal or something like that.




I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Maybe you misunderstood the deputy. But if it's possible that your .45 is stolen the PoPo can hold until proven otherwise. If it was only seized as evidence against the felon you should be getting it back once the case is adjudicated providing you can prove ownership (read as save your receipts).

NCIC is kinda screwy sometimes. I seized a 9mm handgun in a weapons brandishing a month or so ago. During a check it came up clean. About a week later I got an NCIC message showing it was stolen out of CA years before.
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 1:32:51 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/19/2006 1:37:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PCR-00:
Didn't you say this was on the "felon's" property......Wouldn't that construe possession even without him touching it?



That would mean that if you CCW somewhere where the owner is a felon that they could confiscate your weapon. Doesn't sound right to me. I sure hope that's not the case, but that area of the law is not my specialty, so I don't know.
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