Quoted: My S&W 500hr

+1

I really think you ought to reconsider that shotgun as a candidate.  I don't know shit about bears, but I think 2 points are obvious: (1) you have to hit them.  (2) you have to hit them with something powerful.  That Serbu has no sights and a very short barrel.  You really need to answer the following questions:  

Do you really think that you could reliably hit a charging bear in the vitals with that thing?  

And will it have sufficient power out of that barrel to do the job?

Quoted: I really think you ought to reconsider that shotgun as a candidate.  I don't know shit about bears, but I think 2 points are obvious: (1) you have to hit them.  (2) you have to hit them with something powerful.  That Serbu has no sights and a very short barrel.  You really need to answer the following questions:   Do you really think that you could reliably hit a charging bear in the vitals with that thing?   And will it have sufficient power out of that barrel to do the job?

But everyone knows the racking noise will make the bear shit itself and run away.

Quoted: Quoted: I really think you ought to reconsider that shotgun as a candidate.  I don't know shit about bears, but I think 2 points are obvious: (1) you have to hit them.  (2) you have to hit them with something powerful.  That Serbu has no sights and a very short barrel.  You really need to answer the following questions:   Do you really think that you could reliably hit a charging bear in the vitals with that thing?   And will it have sufficient power out of that barrel to do the job? But everyone knows the racking noise will make the bear shit itself and run away.

Hell, just the rumor speading around the bear population that you may be carrying a 10/22 and a .38 will make them shit in the woods.

You might consider an inch pattern FAL in 7.62 x 51 with 30 round bren mags.....class 3 fire control available for those who qualify....or maybe a real BAR in 30-06.

That's it, we need...

BEAR BOX_O_TRUTH

A little background on me:
Durring the summer of 2004 I spent 2.5 months doing grizzly research in the Bob Marshal Wilderness in northwestern Montana.
Before starting I spent a solid week being trained by some of the leading bear experts in the country. Training focussed on how to avoid bears, how to read them in an encounter, how to avoid an attack based on that reading, and if an an attack occurred how to respond based on your reading of the bears body langauge, movement, ect.
The nature of the work was living in the wilderness (30-50 miles from the nearest road at all times) carrying large qualities of bear bait on my back day in and day out. The bait consisted of 2 parts cowblood and one part fish juice, both of which had "ripened" for a year. This shit stank and the 3 liter nagene bottles couldn't contain the smell. Our packs, clothing, and everything else smelled like bear bait. Over the summer I saw alot of bears and I can promise you jumping a bear at close range is nothing to take lightly.

So if you are serious about staying alive in bear country pay attention.
The best defense is avoidance, only a fool wants a close encounter with a griz. Hang your food, keep a clean camp, etc. Learn everything you can about bears before going into bear country.

Forget the idea of 50 yard shots. Most encounters happen at close range in very thick cover. To give you an idea of how thick it can be. I jumped a bear that ran from my 10 oclock to my 2 oclock at less than 10 yards and I couldn't see it well enough to identifiy it as black or grizzly. Not to mention, if you start shooting at a bear at 50 yards the Game Warden isn't going to buy your self the defense story.  You can also forget the notion of  "but I have 30 shots" If you have never seen a bear move up close you have no idea just how fast they really are.  In a bear attack if you get 2 seconds before it hits you then you are pretty lucky.

From what I have learned from experts and my own personal experiance, the best primary defensive tool other than your brain is good pepper spray in a hip holster that can be fired FROM THE HIP if needed. Obviously if you have time to remove if from your holster then do so but you may not have time so be sure it can be discharged directly from the holster. Buy counter assualt brand pepper spray, its pretty much as good as it gets. DO NOT buy the cheap stuff.

If you are able to carry it I would also suggest a 12 gauge shotgun with FULL STOCK loaded with brennekke style slugs (not fosters)  or a rifle that you can handle fastly and accurately in a caliber such as .338 Mag or .375 HH.  Do not take a 7.62x39 or .308 Win, remember you aren't trying to kill the bear, you are trying to stop it RIGHT THE FUCK NOW. In an close attack, unless the rifle is already IN YOUR HANDS it will probably do you no good. Thats why pepper spray in the best first choice. Its fast, always ready at hand, your don't really have to aim it, and 90+ percent effective.

Now if you want to carry a handgun for when all else fails and the bear in chewing on your leg, then by all means to do but don't carry it as your primary defense.

I'm sure there is some internet comando out there reading this thinking "bull shit, I'll just take my .44 Mag (or other wonder gun) and pity the bear that wants to mess with me." For anybody who wants to argue for a handgun as a primary beer defense weapon, I'll offer you this challenge.

Find the thickest brush you can find in an area you can shoot safely in. Set up a clay pigeon thrower so it throws pigeons waist high along the very edge of the brush. If the thrower is manually operated, set up a string so the pigeon can be thrown safely from the showing position.  20 yards infront of the thrower, walk 3 yards into the brush. With your pistol holstered, release the bird, draw and fire before the pigeon passes your position. Thats pretty much what you will have to do in a bear attack, as the target area you have that will DROP a bear with a pistol is pretty dang small. If you can do this and break the pigeon 90 percent of the time I will agree that for you a pistol is better than pepper spray.

Quoted: <snip>

Two words:  You don't fuck around in the Bob.  It's eaten better men than you.
ETA:
Hmmm...post 762.  Shouldn't I have voted for the krink then?

Quoted: You might consider an inch pattern FAL in 7.62 x 51 with 30 round bren mags.....class 3 fire control available for those who qualify....or maybe a real BAR in 30-06.

Way too heavy,  This choice is made in mind that a bad encounter is unlikely, and that a gun is just another piece of gear that I'll have to pack.

Quoted: So if you are serious about staying alive in bear country pay attention. The best defense is avoidance, only a fool wants a close encounter with a griz. Hang your food, keep a clean camp, etc. Learn everything you can about bears before going into bear country.

I do all that.  Like I said, where I am, bears aren't a major concern, but they are possible factor.  And a real serious factor, if they occur.  Which prompts this thread.

Growing up, my dad and his friends packed .44's during the summers, but I have better options, and I figured the ultimate bear gun is is a SOCOM .458.  But that's cumbersome with exotic ammo.  I reckon a small 12 gauge or a krink would be better general options, for worst-case scenarions.  The least heavy least intrusive.  I normally hike around without any sort of gun at all.

Quoted: Quoted: <snip> Two words:  You don't fuck around in the Bob.  It's eaten better men than you. hr

And by that you mean what? Are you in agreement or trying to say I am a piece of shit and I should keep my ass out of the bob?

If the latter..... I spent 2.5 months solid in the bob, was there before you could take a horse over most of the passes, put in a minimum of 750 miles on foot, dealt with everything it had to dish out, and walked out with my head held high and in better mountain backpacking condition than damn near anybody. If you want to belittle what I have done then I ask you just what you have done in the Bob that makes you to fit to judge me as unworthy?

If you are in agreement with me in that going into bear country is nothing to take lightly then please disregard the above, but if you are in agreement I don't get the "its eaten better men than you" part.

308 NATO........ any thoughts?

Quoted: Quoted: So if you are serious about staying alive in bear country pay attention. The best defense is avoidance, only a fool wants a close encounter with a griz. Hang your food, keep a clean camp, etc. Learn everything you can about bears before going into bear country. I do all that.  Like I said, where I am, bears aren't a major concern, but they are possible factor.  And a real serious factor, if they occur.  Which prompts this thread. Growing up, my dad and his friends packed .44's during the summers, but I have better options, and I figured the ultimate bear gun is is a SOCOM .458.  But that's cumbersome with exotic ammo.  I reckon a small 12 gauge or a krink would be better general options, for worst-case scenarions.  The least heavy least intrusive.  I normally hike around without any sort of gun at all.

I do not think that either the serbu or Krink would be much less unobtrusive than their full size counterpart, but in the same vein, you might want to look up the bushwhacker from wild west guns.

Now if someone would make a .454 or better in Scandium....yea baby.

Ah, that's EXACTLY the sort of gun I had in mind! Thanks yek.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: <snip> Two words:  You don't fuck around in the Bob.  It's eaten better men than you. And by that you mean what? Are you in agreement or trying to say I am a piece of shit and I should keep my ass out of the bob? If the latter..... I spent 2.5 months solid in the bob, was there before you could take a horse over most of the passes, put in a minimum of 750 miles on foot, dealt with everything it had to dish out, and walked out with my head held high and in better mountain backpacking condition than damn near anybody. If you want to belittle what I have done then I ask you just what you have done in the Bob that makes you to fit to judge me as unworthy? If you are in agreement with me in that going into bear country is nothing to take lightly then please disregard the above, but if you are in agreement I don't get the "its eaten better men than you" part.

Beg pardon.  The "you" is a generic, directed towards a reader blithely unfamilar with the true hazards of  actual raw wilderness, not something they saw on Disney.  I apologize I didn't make this clear.

I grew up thereabouts.

Most guides or hunters that have Game on the ground use that fifty yards(as if it gets that close it will get some .375H&H or 35 Whelan real quick)!

And the 12guage with the right slug will get the job done(up close) but .375 H&H or a 35 cal will get you better penetration from farther away(which is the idea)!

But to answer your question yes little bears(even big bears can be killed with )30/30's,even 7.62x39's)  But even though the 7X39 might show the same Vel as a 30/30 it will never fire a 170 grain bullet!!!

With bears  bigger is allways better!!!

Bob

geerhed,
Thanks for the correction,
You are a lucky man to have grown up near the Bob. Next to some places I have been in Alaska it is maybe the best place I have ever been to.
Matt

Quoted: img301.imageshack.us/img301/5929/leadcopy2zh.jpg

after thinking about it further.... i would say a good 10/22 would get the job done just fine..... who needs a 308? lol


all ya gotta do is put one thru the eye sockethippie.gif