Which Party? - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Which Party? (Page 2 of 6)

Posted: 3/17/2006 11:14:02 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
So everyone is too lazy, too apathetic or finds themselves stuck in the same conundrum?

Afterall, we are getting inot deep doodoo and no one seems to have the answers, nor does anyone seem willing to provide the leadership.

My personal opinion is that we are so far gone that only wiping the slate clean and starting over will solve any of the major issues that we are currently stuck with. However, since stareting the 3rd american revolution on my own seems a useless and unpalatable option, I would like to put some effort into building a party with more traditional values into a political powerhouse.

Repubs? Betrayal is not something I EVER forgive GWB is a sever dissapointment, but most here were all to familiar with daddy Bush. I still wonder why many are suprised GWB is no different

Dems? Hahahahah Socialists hijack, their are few actual democrats left

Libertarians? Their stance on the border and immigration is enough to keep me from ever voting for them. At least the latinos come looking for work.

Constitutionalists? Perhaps. A little preachy, heavy on the christian value thing but that is not all bad. Any reason not to vote for them or work for their Party?

Party of raving fundies, somehow due to our conversations you would not fit

I would say Green or Libertarian for you. You are more a libertarian than even you might think, if your posts are any indicator of the real you.

Posted: 3/17/2006 11:30:53 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:
Quoted:
We live in a two party system. When you go outside the party to make a statement you are doing nothing more than blabbering into the wind. An outside vote is a wasted vote. IF you're not happy with the party you have a moral and ethical responsiblity to TRY to fix it. How many people here are committee persons? How many people are active with in their individual party?

Patty

You are wrong Patty. The currently entrenched power structure works not for the people but for special interests. The entire thing is so corrupt that it can no longer be fixed before I am rotting in the grave. I cannot, will not, accept that.

If I can get another party moving forward at this point I would consider it the greatest service I could do my nation other than overthrowing the current gov't by violent revolt.

Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll vote for a Republican President until a 3rd party can put up a viable cantidate.

+1 lesser of 2 evils by very little anymore

The difference is so minimal that it is inconsequential.
It is not a 2 party system, it is a 1 party system anymore. The only difference is who gets their fucking handout.

That is completely intolerable IMO.

You could start by shedding your populist pipe dreams. First, start local. Then move up the power structures and rid your state of the teat-sucking cheeseheads, starting with Governor Doyle who couldn't work his way out of a wet paper bag, much less a supply-side problem with heating oil. Hell, the problem is your state has only ONE REFINERY, that being the Superior Refinery and that is a trifling 33,000 BPD. Even North Dakota has twice the refining throughput...

Then get rid of Senator Feingold, the grenade-lobbing circle-jerk instigator who wouldn't stick around to see his proposed censure take root (as if it had a chance anyhow). He is too busy stirring the cesspool and not at all concerned with solving problems.

Yes, I can see why you have a jaundiced view on politics. Being shut inside all winter eating cheese curds and drinking Leinenkugle Red can do that to you. Damn, I thought we had some fat Hispanics in Texas but they are nowhere near as fat as the typical Kroll's patron. Yes, I have visited your state. Make it better by getting rid of Governor Doyle and the grenade-lobbing senator.

Posted: 3/18/2006 12:14:12 AM EDT

[#3]

Constitution party! The Republicans and Democrats are opposite sides of the same maxed-out credit card.

Posted: 3/18/2006 3:58:43 AM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
We live in a two party system. When you go outside the party to make a statement you are doing nothing more than blabbering into the wind. An outside vote is a wasted vote. IF you're not happy with the party you have a moral and ethical responsiblity to TRY to fix it. How many people here are committee persons? How many people are active with in their individual party?

Patty

Patty,

I would have to disagree with you on this one (and I never thought I would ever disagree with you

). If more people voted third party and did not adopt a "lesser of two evils" method of voting, then the Republicans would have straightened themselves out a long time ago.

Yes, you do have an obligation to try and fix your party, but when it comes right down to it, voting for the other guy is a real attention getter, and if more people did it the Republican party would get the message.

Look at what is happening to the Democraptic party, their fringe is voting Green and that is forcing the party to move even further to the Left.

My opinion only of course....

Posted: 3/18/2006 4:21:03 AM EDT

[#5]

Why did I click on this thread?

Posted: 3/18/2006 4:24:45 AM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
"Many political words are similarly abused. The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable."
George Orwell

Common perception means nothing.

99% of the population of this nation don't even know where money originates or how it is put into circulation.

I'm taking a shot here, but isn't new money created by selling our debt on the foriegn market and when big lending institutions decide to lend imaginary money?

I'm not stating i know for certain or trying to flame, just genuinely intersted.

Speed

Posted: 3/18/2006 4:36:25 AM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
I have come to the conclusion that I will never vote for a Republican again.
Of course, I decided that about Dems a long, long time ago.

I would continue to vote GOP -- lesser of two evils. I am pretty pissed at that party as well, especially the Senate. They have a majority and have been squandering it. If the dems were in their place, they would be sticking it to the GOP to no end. The Repubs make we want to puke.

Posted: 3/18/2006 5:37:43 AM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:
We live in a two party system. When you go outside the party to make a statement you are doing nothing more than blabbering into the wind. An outside vote is a wasted vote. IF you're not happy with the party you have a moral and ethical responsiblity to TRY to fix it. How many people here are committee persons? How many people are active with in their individual party?

Patty

+1

Plus, anyone crowing about special interests is retarded. Wake up! The NRA and GOA are SPECIAL INTERESTS! Every lobbying group isn't designed to somehow corrupt the system. Plenty of them give good causes a louder voice.

ETA: I didn't read the GOP=fascist comments until now. Man! IQs have dropped on here since I was on vacation.

Posted: 3/18/2006 6:07:40 AM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
We live in a two party system. When you go outside the party to make a statement you are doing nothing more than blabbering into the wind. An outside vote is a wasted vote. IF you're not happy with the party you have a moral and ethical responsiblity to TRY to fix it. How many people here are committee persons? How many people are active with in their individual party?

Patty

Patty,

I would have to disagree with you on this one (and I never thought I would ever disagree with you ). If more people voted third party and did not adopt a "lesser of two evils" method of voting, then the Republicans would have straightened themselves out a long time ago.

Yes, you do have an obligation to try and fix your party, but when it comes right down to it, voting for the other guy is a real attention getter, and if more people did it the Republican party would get the message.

Look at what is happening to the Democraptic party, their fringe is voting Green and that is forcing the party to move even further to the Left.

My opinion only of course....

I've never advocated for voting for the lessor of the two evils. What I'm saying is FIX THE PARTY if the party isn't working for you. The foundation for the GOP fits my idiology. It has swung way to moderate and this bi partism BS is nothing more then a buzz word for sheeple. Rather than ditching my idiologies and my party - its my responsiblity to FIX the party and believe you me, you can fix it. It would take work but it would be much easier to motivate 100 Republicans into fixing something within their own party then to ditch their party and vote for a 3rd party candidate that can only spoil the outcome of an election.

Patty

*ETA*

Don't be disagreeing with me!

J/K

*ETAA* [that would be Edited to Ad Again!] I know how to fix the party too.

Posted: 3/18/2006 7:27:42 AM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:
So everyone is too lazy, too apathetic or finds themselves stuck in the same conundrum?

Afterall, we are getting inot deep doodoo and no one seems to have the answers, nor does anyone seem willing to provide the leadership.

My personal opinion is that we are so far gone that only wiping the slate clean and starting over will solve any of the major issues that we are currently stuck with. However, since stareting the 3rd american revolution on my own seems a useless and unpalatable option, I would like to put some effort into building a party with more traditional values into a political powerhouse.

Repubs? Betrayal is not something I EVER forgive GWB is a sever dissapointment, but most here were all to familiar with daddy Bush. I still wonder why many are suprised GWB is no different

I know. Been telling people that for years but only now are they getting it. Same shit.

Dems? Hahahahah Socialists hijack, their are few actual democrats left

Couldn't agree more.

Libertarians? Their stance on the border and immigration is enough to keep me from ever voting for them. At least the latinos come looking for work.

Some. Some work, some mild the system, some DO BOTH!
Cut off their source of income and send the losers here with 'em.

Constitutionalists? Perhaps. A little preachy, heavy on the christian value thing but that is not all bad. Any reason not to vote for them or work for their Party?
Party of raving fundies, somehow due to our conversations you would not fit

Fundies?
Not fit?
Expound please.

I would say Green or Libertarian for you. You are more a libertarian than even you might think, if your posts are any indicator of the real you.

Greens? Why. I am heavy into the environment I will sure admit but what else do they stand for besides more socialism. Doesn't sound like they are for me.

I have said for a long time that the Repubs should change their attitude on the environment. I think they would be surprised at how many votes they might get and it is the right thing to do. Within reason of course.

Libertarian?
Nope. There are a few of their platforms that just will not ever fit into my way of thinking, the most pronounced being their immigration and open borders platform.

Posted: 3/18/2006 7:34:42 AM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We live in a two party system. When you go outside the party to make a statement you are doing nothing more than blabbering into the wind. An outside vote is a wasted vote. IF you're not happy with the party you have a moral and ethical responsiblity to TRY to fix it. How many people here are committee persons? How many people are active with in their individual party?

Patty

You are wrong Patty. The currently entrenched power structure works not for the people but for special interests. The entire thing is so corrupt that it can no longer be fixed before I am rotting in the grave. I cannot, will not, accept that.

If I can get another party moving forward at this point I would consider it the greatest service I could do my nation other than overthrowing the current gov't by violent revolt.

Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll vote for a Republican President until a 3rd party can put up a viable cantidate.

+1 lesser of 2 evils by very little anymore

The difference is so minimal that it is inconsequential.
It is not a 2 party system, it is a 1 party system anymore. The only difference is who gets their fucking handout.

That is completely intolerable IMO.

You could start by shedding your populist pipe dreams. First, start local. Then move up the power structures and rid your state of the teat-sucking cheeseheads, starting with Governor Doyle who couldn't work his way out of a wet paper bag, much less a supply-side problem with heating oil. Hell, the problem is your state has only ONE REFINERY, that being the Superior Refinery and that is a trifling 33,000 BPD. Even North Dakota has twice the refining throughput...

Then get rid of Senator Feingold, the grenade-lobbing circle-jerk instigator who wouldn't stick around to see his proposed censure take root (as if it had a chance anyhow). He is too busy stirring the cesspool and not at all concerned with solving problems.

Yes, I can see why you have a jaundiced view on politics. Being shut inside all winter eating cheese curds and drinking Leinenkugle Red can do that to you. Damn, I thought we had some fat Hispanics in Texas but they are nowhere near as fat as the typical Kroll's patron. Yes, I have visited your state. Make it better by getting rid of Governor Doyle and the grenade-lobbing senator.

Asshole!

Too funny though.
And damn true. You ought to have to do pelvics on these fat skanks, Blecchhh

Krolls? Mmmmmm...haven't had one of their burgers since I was a kid growing up in Green Bay. Long time ago.

Kohl is the one up for re-election and he is far worse than Feingold. Feingold has 5 years left. He promised me he would not vote for another AWban if that means anything to you. Just telling you what he wrote.

Doyle? Yeah, now that is the enemy. I have it from very reliable sources that his level of corruption is unsurpassed and that it is all going to come out in this years election. I was told he doesn't stand a chance of re-election but that doesn't take into account the foaming at the mouth socialists we have in Milwaukee and Madison. Give 'em their handout and they'll vote for Lucifer himself. I suspect oneday they might actually do that.

Posted: 3/18/2006 7:38:33 AM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

*ETAA* [that would be Edited to Ad Again!] I know how to fix the party too.

And how would that be?

I am listening.
Though I still do not plan on voting for Republicans again.

Posted: 3/18/2006 7:44:28 AM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They are not the same.

The Democrats are socialists.

The Republicans are fascists.

You have a choice.

Isn't democracy wonderful?

If voting really changed anything it would be illegal.

Are you shitting me, fascist is a hell of a label to put on anybody...especially when it is bullshit

fascism n.1 any system of government in which property is privately owned, but all industry and labor are regulated by a strong national government, while all opposition is rigorously suppressed.

I give you the federal reserve system.

You don't have to be a Nazi to be a fascist.

Free market capitalism requires a free market for capital.

Bullshit is what the GOP is feeding you and telling you is apple pie.

You are kidding right? That definition is the exact wording of what the democrap party stands for.

Posted: 3/18/2006 7:47:58 AM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They are not the same.

The Democrats are socialists.

The Republicans are fascists.

You have a choice.

Isn't democracy wonderful?

If voting really changed anything it would be illegal.

Are you shitting me, fascist is a hell of a label to put on anybody...especially when it is bullshit

fascism n.1 any system of government in which property is privately owned, but all industry and labor are regulated by a strong national government, while all opposition is rigorously suppressed.

I give you the federal reserve system.

You don't have to be a Nazi to be a fascist.

Free market capitalism requires a free market for capital.

Bullshit is what the GOP is feeding you and telling you is apple pie.

You are kidding right? That definition is the exact wording of what the democrap party stands for.

Yes it is, I will agree.

Posted: 3/18/2006 8:48:23 AM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
So everyone is too lazy, too apathetic or finds themselves stuck in the same conundrum?

<snip 'cause we know the two-party system sucks>

Libertarians? Their stance on the border and immigration is enough to keep me from ever voting for them.

Constitutionalists? Perhaps. A little preachy, heavy on the christian value thing but that is not all bad. Any reason not to vote for them or work for their Party?

If I had a choice, I would refer to myself as "a little 'l' libertarian". Witness the recent move of the party to modify its party platform on immigration. That's the biggest issue I have with them, considering that they recognize an individual state's rights to limit issues like drug use and abortion (as long as the fed.gov stays out of it), IIRC.

I'd vote Constitution Party if they actually adhered to the ideas of the Founding Fathers, but unfortunately, their own moral code forbids it. They have most of the right ideas, but I think their party would be better named the "Modern Baptist Party". Every one of the folks I've met that was involved was a great person and a patriot, but I think their focus on "values" issues clouds their judgement (even when I agree with their values).

To those of you who think the Republican party is the answer, I say: "those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it". Take a look at the origins of the Republican party. They have always had the Whig goals of protectionist trade and public subsidies for private enterprises (their own). [ETA: Does that sound like "facsism" to you? It sounds pretty close to me.] The leadership of today's Republican Party are no different from those of 150 years ago.

The more I read of what Patrick Henry had to say about things, the more I think we should bag the current Constitution and return to life under the Articles of Confederation. It's too bad that the anti-federalists were unable to convince the populace. Not only would we'd have been better off, but we probably would have avoided the last "Civil War" as well as the next one.

Posted: 3/18/2006 8:54:23 AM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We live in a two party system. When you go outside the party to make a statement you are doing nothing more than blabbering into the wind. An outside vote is a wasted vote. IF you're not happy with the party you have a moral and ethical responsiblity to TRY to fix it. How many people here are committee persons? How many people are active with in their individual party?

Patty

Patty,

I would have to disagree with you on this one (and I never thought I would ever disagree with you ). If more people voted third party and did not adopt a "lesser of two evils" method of voting, then the Republicans would have straightened themselves out a long time ago.

Yes, you do have an obligation to try and fix your party, but when it comes right down to it, voting for the other guy is a real attention getter, and if more people did it the Republican party would get the message.

Look at what is happening to the Democraptic party, their fringe is voting Green and that is forcing the party to move even further to the Left.

My opinion only of course....

I've never advocated for voting for the lessor of the two evils. What I'm saying is FIX THE PARTY if the party isn't working for you. The foundation for the GOP fits my idiology. It has swung way to moderate and this bi partism BS is nothing more then a buzz word for sheeple. Rather than ditching my idiologies and my party - its my responsiblity to FIX the party and believe you me, you can fix it. It would take work but it would be much easier to motivate 100 Republicans into fixing something within their own party then to ditch their party and vote for a 3rd party candidate that can only spoil the outcome of an election.

Patty

*ETA* Don't be disagreeing with me! J/K

*ETAA* [that would be Edited to Ad Again!] I know how to fix the party too.

Patty, I can only dream of you slapping me then kissing me.

Posted: 3/18/2006 9:12:20 AM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

How does anything I have said or done make me a hypocrite?

I do not reward betrayal. To Hell with the Republican Party. They are the same as the Dems now and I find your view of the two party system simplistic at best.

As for my vote in the next two upcoming elections I don't care that a Republican doesn't win. AFAIC they can lose every seat they hold currently. Suits me just fine.

What exactly is this "betrayal" that you speak of?

and you really think if we had 20% republicans and 75% democrats in power now instead of the current ratios there wouldn't be any difference in the laws enacted and policies carried out?

who is the simplistic idealist now?

Posted: 3/18/2006 9:30:48 AM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:
Quoted:

How does anything I have said or done make me a hypocrite?

I do not reward betrayal. To Hell with the Republican Party. They are the same as the Dems now and I find your view of the two party system simplistic at best.

As for my vote in the next two upcoming elections I don't care that a Republican doesn't win. AFAIC they can lose every seat they hold currently. Suits me just fine.

What exactly is this "betrayal" that you speak of?

I would start with

illegal immigration

and

failure to secure our borders

total betrayal of the public trust.

then add on, the betrayal of our gov't overall in other things of which both parties are guilty

9/11
Medicare presciption handout for losers/vote buy
Attempt to hand over our ports to UAE
Clinton's give away of secrets and tech to the Chicoms
Dismantling the CIA
AWban
GCA
MGBan
Reagan amnesty
The entire Carter Admnistration
Viet Nam War
Great Society

And don't even try unloading all of that on only one party.

and you really think if we had 20% republicans and 75% democrats in power now instead of the current ratios there wouldn't be any difference in the laws enacted and policies carried out?

Not much.
Perhaps if that were the case we'd have moved beyond all this socialist BS by now. Fact is, both are taking us down the same path, just a matter of velocity.

who is the simplistic idealist now?

Umm, sounds like you.
I am selling Koolaid for $5 a cup

Posted: 3/18/2006 9:37:17 AM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
I'll vote for a Republican President until a 3rd party can put up a viable cantidate.

I'm also going to vote for Rick Perry for governor of Texas and he is a Republican. He's a damn good one too! He's earned the respect of gun owners in this state by supporting every pro gun law that has come across his desk (including a law to allow Texans to carry pistols in their cars without a CHL) and he literally told the radical homosexuals that if they didn't like the laws in Texas that they should find another state more hospitable to their lifestyle (almost his exact words). I wish Rick Perry would run for President in 2008. I'd not only vote for him but I'd feel good about doing it.

I may be inclined to vote for a 3rd party for lower offices, but I can't really say any bad things about the Republicans here in Texas. They have moved gun rights forward, fought off the radical gay agenda and Jerrymandered the Demonrats almost completely out of business.

Yep, we got us a damn fine state here and the Republicans deserve some credit. Just too bad ain't no one built a wall on our side of the Rio Grande yet.

This is something to applaud them for? Fucking politicians.

Posted: 3/18/2006 9:43:36 AM EDT

[#20]

Instead of bitching about how bad the republican party is, we need to work within to change it. Hell look how much the democratic party has changed. They have turned into full blown socialist/communists we should work to make the republican party the polar opposite.

Also we are also ignoring history. Keep in mind the Republican party wasn't always the party of small government. Look at Nixon. He was just as big government as Clinton. Nixon signed the endangered species act, created the EPA and started gas and energy rationing. Ronald Reagan was the one who started the conservative take over from the country club republicans. Newt also had a lot to do with moving the Republican party to the right as well with the contract with America. We must rally around those who express the idea of individual freedom and free market economics and restricted government spending and kick out or vote out those who are against those core principles.

Posted: 3/18/2006 9:44:15 AM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I have come to the conclusion that I will never vote for a Republican again.
Of course, I decided that about Dems a long, long time ago.

Now my first inclination was to just not vote but then the fuckers would win.
Here's a clue: The fuckers win no matter what. The only thing you have any chance to affect is which fucker.

Sucks, don't it?

It's just like on South Park...

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:06:54 AM EDT

[#22]

Peanuts Party.

OOps, wrong topic. Never mind.

______________________________

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:12:36 AM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:

Peanuts Party.

OOps, wrong topic. Never mind.

______________________________

Hey, I say give 'em a shot. Couldn't do any worse.

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:14:29 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
Instead of bitching about how bad the republican party is, we need to work within to change it. Hell look how much the democratic party has changed. They have turned into full blown socialist/communists we should work to make the republican party the polar opposite.

The Republican Party isn't interested in what you think. They are choosing a new electorate.

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:33:24 AM EDT

[#25]

Bull Moose Party.
Where is TR when you need him? He understood corporations were as sick and corrupt as governments and beat back (trust-buster) their control of the nation (preventing a communist revolution here that, if successful, would have plunged the world into darkness).
He loved the outdoors and realized that the nation as a whole had an interest in preserving the environment for future generations.
Was strong on defense and understood isolationism is crap, a do'er not a sayer, a giver not a taker, bit of a pompous loudmouth but could back it up so who cares.
Justice to all, favors to none.
Hated by the Republican Aristocracy.
Hated by the Democratic Aristocracy.
Definitely not a Libertarian.
Progressive/liberal in the correct sense of the words, not current welfare/socialism.
He loved the USA and the Constitution.
A leader not a poll taker.

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:33:42 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:

The Republican Party isn't interested in what you think. <Snip>

Exactly.

If they gave a rat's ass what the American people thought they would have closed the southern border in January 2001. It's not that they CAN'T do it. They WON'T do it. They won't even attempt a good faith EFFORT to do it. Why? Because our all-seeing, all-knowing, omniscient overlords know what's best for us, right? "We the people" are just to myopic and hopelessly stupid to ever see the benefits of being invaded by a shithole 3rd world nation, right?

[French Accent] But of course! [French Accent/]

Until recently I bought into that "lesser of two evils" crap, too. No more. I shouldn't HAVE to vote for some bastard/bitch who everyone knows and freely admits is EVIL and I'm no longer going to. Period.

The only way to EVER get a viable 3rd party is to start voting for a 3rd party. So, that's what I'm going to do for the foreseeable future.

In the end every citizen (and every illegal alien voting with a fake ID) must make his or her own decision. I've made mine.

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:38:25 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Instead of bitching about how bad the republican party is, we need to work within to change it. Hell look how much the democratic party has changed. They have turned into full blown socialist/communists we should work to make the republican party the polar opposite.

The Republican Party isn't interested in what you think. They are choosing a new electorate.

I am sure people told Reagan that as well.

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:42:16 AM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I'll vote for a Republican President until a 3rd party can put up a viable cantidate.

I'm also going to vote for Rick Perry for governor of Texas and he is a Republican. He's a damn good one too! He's earned the respect of gun owners in this state by supporting every pro gun law that has come across his desk (including a law to allow Texans to carry pistols in their cars without a CHL) and he literally told the radical homosexuals that if they didn't like the laws in Texas that they should find another state more hospitable to their lifestyle (almost his exact words). I wish Rick Perry would run for President in 2008. I'd not only vote for him but I'd feel good about doing it.

I may be inclined to vote for a 3rd party for lower offices, but I can't really say any bad things about the Republicans here in Texas. They have moved gun rights forward, fought off the radical gay agenda and Jerrymandered the Demonrats almost completely out of business.

Yep, we got us a damn fine state here and the Republicans deserve some credit. Just too bad ain't no one built a wall on our side of the Rio Grande yet.

This is something to applaud them for? Fucking politicians.

I think so. The Demonrats are seditous, opportunistic, blood sucking vermin who want to give our national sovergeinty away for free and subject the United States to the will of nations and people who hate us. They want to steal what we have earned and give it to those who have done nothing, strip us of anything resembeling self sufficency and make us slaves to the will of government. The Demonrats do not deserve a level playing field because they are nothing more than fifth columnists for every cause which seeks to destroy us. Giving the Demonrats any foothold is suicide.

"When we hang the last capitalist, he will sell us the rope!" - Lenin

There is a lesson to be learned in that quote.

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:45:41 AM EDT

[#29]

If voting would change anything it'd be outlawed.

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:46:30 AM EDT

[#30]

3 parties and 4th parties will NEVER work today.

It is Republican or Democrat......and lets hope that it stays Republican.

Third parties will never work because typically they run on single issues. Today will could have a 3rd party that has several issues in their platform but their main issue might be secure the boarders or balance the budget. Then during the election as the Republicans and Democrats begin to select their candidate through primaries and conventions the issues from the 3rd party will be pushed to the American public.

If the American public begins to like the issues of the 3rd party....the Dems or Republicans will swallow up the 3rd party issue and will add it to their platform, depending if the 3rd party is more left or right.

So the 3rd party gets the wind taken out of their sales because they do not have the money or support to challenge the Republicans or Democrats, also once the 3rd party looses their main issue....there goes the support of the third party.

There will always be people who will vote Libertarian or for the Green Party because that is the platform they identify with. But for the most part 3rd parties are only good to use as a tool to push a single issue to the American public and to get the two major parties to adopt those issues in their platforms.

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:55:00 AM EDT

[#31]

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I'll vote for a Republican President until a 3rd party can put up a viable cantidate.

I'm also going to vote for Rick Perry for governor of Texas and he is a Republican. He's a damn good one too! He's earned the respect of gun owners in this state by supporting every pro gun law that has come across his desk (including a law to allow Texans to carry pistols in their cars without a CHL) and he literally told the radical homosexuals that if they didn't like the laws in Texas that they should find another state more hospitable to their lifestyle (almost his exact words). I wish Rick Perry would run for President in 2008. I'd not only vote for him but I'd feel good about doing it.

I may be inclined to vote for a 3rd party for lower offices, but I can't really say any bad things about the Republicans here in Texas. They have moved gun rights forward, fought off the radical gay agenda and Jerrymandered the Demonrats almost completely out of business.

Yep, we got us a damn fine state here and the Republicans deserve some credit. Just too bad ain't no one built a wall on our side of the Rio Grande yet.

This is something to applaud them for? Fucking politicians.

I think so. The Demonrats are seditous, opportunistic, blood sucking vermin who want to give our national sovergeinty away for free and subject the United States to the will of nations and people who hate us. They want to steal what we have earned and give it to those who have done nothing, strip us of anything resembeling self sufficency and make us slaves to the will of government. The Demonrats do not deserve a level playing field because they are nothing more than fifth columnists for every cause which seeks to destroy us. Giving the Demonrats any foothold is suicide.

"When we hang the last capitalist, he will sell us the rope!" - Lenin

There is a lesson to be learned in that quote.

I'm not arguing issues...in this regard, it doesn't matter to me if Republicans hail pancakes while Democrats hail biscuits. A majority party twisting the system to maintain their power is the kind of political shit that disgusts me about both groups.

I see where you're coming from, but I'm on a different island.

Posted: 3/18/2006 10:56:49 AM EDT

[#32]

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Instead of bitching about how bad the republican party is, we need to work within to change it. Hell look how much the democratic party has changed. They have turned into full blown socialist/communists we should work to make the republican party the polar opposite.

The Republican Party isn't interested in what you think. They are choosing a new electorate.

I am sure people told Reagan that as well.

The difference was Reagan WAS a conservative!

Posted: 3/18/2006 11:05:54 AM EDT

[#33]

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Instead of bitching about how bad the republican party is, we need to work within to change it. Hell look how much the democratic party has changed. They have turned into full blown socialist/communists we should work to make the republican party the polar opposite.

The Republican Party isn't interested in what you think. They are choosing a new electorate.

I am sure people told Reagan that as well.

The difference was Reagan WAS a conservative!

That is my point. The Republican establishment in the 60's and 70's didn't want to listen to what Reagan had to say because he was conservative. People told him he had no chance of being governor of California or even president. The republican establishment hated Reagan. No one can tell me or convince me that conservatism and limited government ideology has been completely lost from the republican party.

Look at all of us. We bitch and moan about stuff like this all the time. We need to go back to the grass roots level and start the house cleaning from the bottom up only putting conservative republicans up for nomination and voting the bums out. Hell some of us here on arfcom are experienced enough to run for office. Maybe not governor or Senate but as a state delegate or even for US Congress that is what happened during the 1994 take over. We should also figure out a way to get term limits passed for congress.

Posted: 3/18/2006 11:36:31 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:

If the American public begins to like the issues of the 3rd party....the Dems or Republicans will swallow up the 3rd party issue and will add it to their platform, depending if the 3rd party is more left or right.

So the 3rd party gets the wind taken out of their sales because they do not have the money or support to challenge the Republicans or Democrats, also once the 3rd party looses their main issue....there goes the support of the third party.

There will always be people who will vote Libertarian or for the Green Party because that is the platform they identify with. But for the most part 3rd parties are only good to use as a tool to push a single issue to the American public and to get the two major parties to adopt those issues in their platforms.

That is acceptable to me. If voting 3rd Party does this effectively then I am ALL FOR IT!

Posted: 3/18/2006 11:42:43 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
Quoted:

The Republican Party isn't interested in what you think. <Snip>

Exactly.

If they gave a rat's ass what the American people thought they would have closed the southern border in January 2001. It's not that they CAN'T do it. They WON'T do it. They won't even attempt a good faith EFFORT to do it.

Yeah, it can't be done....

We beat back the two powerhouses of their era in a two front war in WWII
We built a nuclear weapon in a couple of years of research
We went from shooting basketball size objects into orbit to landing a manned craft on the moon

....and we can't secure our borders?

These people are the enemy of America.

Why? Because our all-seeing, all-knowing, omniscient overlords know what's best for us, right? "We the people" are just to myopic and hopelessly stupid to ever see the benefits of being invaded by a shithole 3rd world nation, right?

Pretty much sums it up.

Until recently I bought into that "lesser of two evils" crap, too. No more. I shouldn't HAVE to vote for some bastard/bitch who everyone knows and freely admits is EVIL and I'm no longer going to. Period.

Me either

The only way to EVER get a viable 3rd party is to start voting for a 3rd party. So, that's what I'm going to do for the foreseeable future.

In the end every citizen (and every illegal alien voting with a fake ID) must make his or her own decision. I've made mine.

Same here. There is only one other option at this point.

Posted: 3/18/2006 12:06:49 PM EDT

[#36]

In order to fix the problem we first need to come to a consensus of what exactly it is we would like our party to stand for. In order of importance if you will.

Next you must start a propaganda campaign to sell this to the party members. An inexpensive but affective way to do this would be to produce a DVD outlining our objective and portraying it in a positive, sexy, enthusiastic manner [Why Reagan was so effective].

Next we must unit the party members together. How? Organize, organize, Organize. Communicate, communicate, communicate.

Last fund raise. Money, money money

It will work. But it will be work.

*ETA* AmericanPatriot1776

Posted: 3/18/2006 12:20:12 PM EDT

[#37]

Green Party Platforms I am not an advocate of but they are not communists or soft-facist.

Constitution Party They are great on RKBA and states rights but they want to embed religion into the government to a disturbing degree.

Posted: 3/18/2006 12:41:04 PM EDT

[#38]

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So everyone is too lazy, too apathetic or finds themselves stuck in the same conundrum?

<snip 'cause we know the two-party system sucks>

Libertarians? Their stance on the border and immigration is enough to keep me from ever voting for them.

Constitutionalists? Perhaps. A little preachy, heavy on the christian value thing but that is not all bad. Any reason not to vote for them or work for their Party?

If I had a choice, I would refer to myself as "a little 'l' libertarian". Witness the recent move of the party to modify its party platform on immigration. That's the biggest issue I have with them, considering that they recognize an individual state's rights to limit issues like drug use and abortion (as long as the fed.gov stays out of it), IIRC.

I'd vote Constitution Party if they actually adhered to the ideas of the Founding Fathers, but unfortunately, their own moral code forbids it. They have most of the right ideas, but I think their party would be better named the "Modern Baptist Party". Every one of the folks I've met that was involved was a great person and a patriot, but I think their focus on "values" issues clouds their judgement (even when I agree with their values).

I can understand the concern. I do, however, think that would be one of the easier things to moderate given the Constitution and would expect that as people moved to that party we would see some change.

Yeah, they are a little heavy on the religious right bit but there are worse things.

Posted: 3/18/2006 12:41:51 PM EDT

[#39]

Borders, immigration, spending, deficits, etc. aren't really the issue.

The issue is the underlying requirement that debt inflation continue to accelerate to keep the system liquid due to the fact that debt is the basis of our money supply.

That's what's driving policy. The need for population growth and a continuous, exponential growth curve on the total debt burden in the economy to avoid recession, deflation and collapse.

That's why interest rates have been, and still are in real terms, at historic lows. That's also why the Fed has stopped publishing the M3 money supply figures. What kind of market economy is it if a key indicator is now classified?

The difference between the parties is only what they intend to do with all the money they're borrowing, that's all.

This economy is like an individual that's been rolling credit card debt from one card to another for many years, and is starting to fall behind. For a long time it improved his standard of living, when you're a superpower and you're good buddies with the bank president your credit is pretty good, but eventually it catches up with you, you start having trouble paying your bills, your crediters decide to say enough, and then start calling, and unless you have a rich uncle somewhere to bail you out bankruptcy usually follows.

We're at that stage where we're willing to do just about anything to keep the bills current so we don't get cut off by our creditors, we know it's time to take our lumps and institute significant monetary reform, but our girlfriends would leave us if we gave up our lifestyle built on credit....

If you really care about immigration the way to get there is monetary reform, our monetary system sucks, it's the lifeblood of the welfare/warfare state, it's dishonest, it's the root cause of most of the injustices BOTH parties benefit greatly from offering relief from, to different groups, dividing the population against itself and keeping them blind to the real issues, and it's failing, and taking the republic with it one piece at a time.

Posted: 3/18/2006 12:45:27 PM EDT

[#40]

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They are not the same.

The Democrats are socialists.

The Republicans are fascists.

You have a choice.

Isn't democracy wonderful?

If voting really changed anything it would be illegal.

Are you shitting me, fascist is a hell of a label to put on anybody...especially when it is bullshit

fascism n.1 any system of government in which property is privately owned, but all industry and labor are regulated by a strong national government, while all opposition is rigorously suppressed.

I give you the federal reserve system.

You don't have to be a Nazi to be a fascist.

Free market capitalism requires a free market for capital.

Bullshit is what the GOP is feeding you and telling you is apple pie.

You are kidding right? That definition is the exact wording of what the democrap party stands for.

That definition is straight out of the dictionary, and it fits the Republicans better than the Democrats, the Democrats are the same but they don't believe in private property.

Posted: 3/18/2006 12:55:05 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
Quoted:
"Many political words are similarly abused. The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies "something not desirable."
George Orwell

Common perception means nothing.

99% of the population of this nation don't even know where money originates or how it is put into circulation.

I'm taking a shot here, but isn't new money created by selling our debt on the foriegn market and when big lending institutions decide to lend imaginary money?

I'm not stating i know for certain or trying to flame, just genuinely intersted.

Speed

Yeah, it's loaned into existence, at compound interest. Every dollar in existence has somebody somewhere paying interest on the loan that created it. In fact there is far more debt due to the creation of money than money itself, because once interest starts to accrue there is no longer enough money to repay the loan.

When you borrow money from a bank, they can take the loan agreement to the fed and borrow new money, money that nobody earned, money that was basically printed, and use it to fund your loan. Then they charge you interest for the next 30 years for the privilege. That's the driving mechanism behind inflation.

That's why anyone who says anything about paying down the national debt doesn't know what they're talking about, debt is permanent once it's created, it can only be transferred from one party to another, defaulted on, or inflated away. If the total debt burden in the economy were to decline, or even stop increasing, the money supply would contract, if the debt burden were to decline by 25% or so, the money supply would be zero.

Posted: 3/18/2006 12:57:05 PM EDT

[#42]

If a third party candidate is taking stands on issues I identify with I will vote for them. I vote for the candidate I identify with not the party.

Posted: 3/18/2006 1:11:20 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
Borders, immigration, spending, deficits, etc. aren't really the issue.

The issue is the underlying requirement that debt inflation continue to accelerate to keep the system liquid due to the fact that debt is the basis of our money supply.

That's what's driving policy. The need for population growth and a continuous, exponential growth curve on the total debt burden in the economy to avoid recession, deflation and collapse.

That's why interest rates have been, and still are in real terms, at historic lows. That's also why the Fed has stopped publishing the M3 money supply figures. What kind of market economy is it if a key indicator is now classified?

The difference between the parties is only what they intend to do with all the money they're borrowing, that's all.

This economy is like an individual that's been rolling credit card debt from one card to another for many years, and is starting to fall behind. For a long time it improved his standard of living, when you're a superpower and you're good buddies with the bank president your credit is pretty good, but eventually it catches up with you, you start having trouble paying your bills, your crediters decide to say enough, and then start calling, and unless you have a rich uncle somewhere to bail you out bankruptcy usually follows.

We're at that stage where we're willing to do just about anything to keep the bills current so we don't get cut off by our creditors, we know it's time to take our lumps and institute significant monetary reform, but our girlfriends would leave us if we gave up our lifestyle built on credit....

If you really care about immigration the way to get there is monetary reform, our monetary system sucks, it's the lifeblood of the welfare/warfare state, it's dishonest, it's the root cause of most of the injustices BOTH parties benefit greatly from offering relief from, to different groups, dividing the population against itself and keeping them blind to the real issues, and it's failing, and taking the republic with it one piece at a time.

Possibly the best post in this thread.

I disagree with being unable to pay down the debt(another post) though but that is another topic.

Posted: 3/18/2006 1:15:25 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
We live in a two party system. When you go outside the party to make a statement you are doing nothing more than blabbering into the wind. An outside vote is a wasted vote. IF you're not happy with the party you have a moral and ethical responsiblity to TRY to fix it. How many people here are committee persons? How many people are active with in their individual party?

Patty

I used to be a Republican, back before I got active in the party. I served as a precinct chairman and was a delegate to the state convention a couple times (I even met Chuck Norris there once). What I learned is that you can't "fix" the party because it's doing what the people who own it want it to do.

If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

Posted: 3/18/2006 1:24:46 PM EDT

[#45]

Quoted:
I hate to throw off negative vibs here, but most of the time I'm voting AGAINST a candidate by voting for his opponent than actually voting FOR a candidate. The whole lesser of 2 evils thing.

OK so we don't like Mr. Bush. Would anyone with the mental capacity to put the right shoe on the right foot have chosen Gore or Kerry to spite the party? How stupid would that be? Would you vote for Hillary to spite the party? How do you think that scum bag Clinton won? People wasted their vote against him and threw it at that little clown from Texas.

I didn’t like Bush I at all and I’ve never been that excited about Bush II. I’m 52 and in my lifetime, there has never been a candidate from the Democratic Party, winner or looser who belonged in the White House. All those who won election were disasters. The last two to run were horrific ass holes. Thank God they both lost!

We have little choice but to vote against the communists and socialists who have taken over the Democratic Party. All you have to do is see who supports this party and you know it’s the wrong one.

There are lots of Republicans I don’t like, mostly because they’re RINOs. I’ve never seen the Democrats run someone against them who isn’t much worse.

It really is simply the selection of the lesser of two evils. If you throw away your vote on a hopeless 3rd party, you’ve just let the enemy gain a little more ground. To me it’s obvious, we have to vote against the Democrats at every opportunity, even if their Republican opponents aren’t exactly the kind of people we’d want sitting at our dinner table with the kids.

The terrible truth about politics is we’ll never have great representatives again because those most qualified have better things to do with their time and don’t want to associate with the Washington scum. Ever since the Pepsi Generation grew up and began to move into politics, the game has become self-serving. In the past, the Greatest Generation was more focused on service, honor and pride. We have a cultural issue to overcome that runs deep in both parties.

Posted: 3/18/2006 1:26:52 PM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
We live in a two party system. When you go outside the party to make a statement you are doing nothing more than blabbering into the wind. An outside vote is a wasted vote. IF you're not happy with the party you have a moral and ethical responsiblity to TRY to fix it. How many people here are committee persons? How many people are active with in their individual party?

Patty

False. That is the crap that the two parties want you to believe. The republicans were a third party and the underdogs until Lincoln got elected. Funny thing is back then they were the liberals.

Posted: 3/18/2006 1:29:55 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:
Quoted:
We live in a two party system. When you go outside the party to make a statement you are doing nothing more than blabbering into the wind. An outside vote is a wasted vote. IF you're not happy with the party you have a moral and ethical responsiblity to TRY to fix it. How many people here are committee persons? How many people are active with in their individual party?

Patty

I used to be a Republican, back before I got active in the party. I served as a precinct chairman and was a delegate to the state convention a couple times (I even met Chuck Norris there once). What I learned is that you can't "fix" the party because it's doing what the people who own it want it to do.

If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas.

Thanks for that post. I am sure we would all like to hear more.

Posted: 3/18/2006 1:32:16 PM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
Quoted:
We live in a two party system. When you go outside the party to make a statement you are doing nothing more than blabbering into the wind. An outside vote is a wasted vote. IF you're not happy with the party you have a moral and ethical responsiblity to TRY to fix it. How many people here are committee persons? How many people are active with in their individual party?

Patty
False. That is the crap that the two parties want you to believe. The republicans were a third party and the underdogs until Lincoln got elected. Funny thing is back then they were the liberals.

That was a really long time ago...

Posted: 3/18/2006 1:33:21 PM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
Quoted:
I hate to throw off negative vibs here, but most of the time I'm voting AGAINST a candidate by voting for his opponent than actually voting FOR a candidate. The whole lesser of 2 evils thing.

OK so we don't like Mr. Bush. Would anyone with the mental capacity to put the right shoe on the right foot have chosen Gore or Kerry to spite the party? How stupid would that be? Would you vote for Hillary to spite the party? How do you think that scum bag Clinton won? People wasted their vote against him and threw it at that little clown from Texas.

I didn’t like Bush I at all and I’ve never been that excited about Bush II. I’m 52 and in my lifetime, there has never been a candidate from the Democratic Party, winner or looser who belonged in the White House. All those who won election were disasters. The last two to run were horrific ass holes. Thank God they both lost!

We have little choice but to vote against the communists and socialists who have taken over the Democratic Party. All you have to do is see who supports this party and you know it’s the wrong one.

There are lots of Republicans I don’t like, mostly because they’re RINOs. I’ve never seen the Democrats run someone against them who isn’t much worse.

It really is simply the selection of the lesser of two evils. If you throw away your vote on a hopeless 3rd party, you’ve just let the enemy gain a little more ground. To me it’s obvious, we have to vote against the Democrats at every opportunity, even if their Republican opponents aren’t exactly the kind of people we’d want sitting at our dinner table with the kids.

The terrible truth about politics is we’ll never have great representatives again because those most qualified have better things to do with their time and don’t want to associate with the Washington scum. Ever since the Pepsi Generation grew up and began to move into politics, the game has become self-serving. In the past, the Greatest Generation was more focused on service, honor and pride. We have a cultural issue to overcome that runs deep in both parties.

And you want us to vote for more of that?
That is what the problem is in the first place.

Posted: 3/18/2006 1:43:32 PM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We live in a two party system. When you go outside the party to make a statement you are doing nothing more than blabbering into the wind. An outside vote is a wasted vote. IF you're not happy with the party you have a moral and ethical responsiblity to TRY to fix it. How many people here are committee persons? How many people are active with in their individual party?

Patty
False. That is the crap that the two parties want you to believe. The republicans were a third party and the underdogs until Lincoln got elected. Funny thing is back then they were the liberals.

That was a really long time ago...

I think that the term "2 party system" has been beaten into us for so long that it has been accepted as truth, when history proves that it isn't. It is crap. Kinda like "We are a nation of laws" and "Guns kill people" etc. It limits our ability to think and we see it here. Everyone is afraid to vote for another party because everyone believes that we are just a 2 party system. There are no laws to that effect, no mention of Democrats and Republicans in the constitution.

No one on this board has said that they are a dyed in the wool republican or democrat, every single reply to this thread has been stating basically that people here begrudgingly vote republican because that they are the party that ore closely holds up the values they are looking for, but it is similar to having to choose between sharing a desert island with either Michael Moore or Rosie O'Donnell.

I have yet to meet anyone who fully supports the Republican party and most do it because it is not the Democratic party.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Which Party? (Page 2 of 6)

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