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Posted: 3/16/2006 9:54:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 9:55:59 AM EDT by Old_Painless]
I had some friends from the HS2000/XDTalk Forum contact me about some ammo they were interested in testing. My friend DJDan said that if I would be willing to test some, he would arrange for the purchase of the ammo.

This ammo is expensive. Here is a picture of what I received:



That small pile cost $73.97 delivered to my door. (More on cost later.) The cost was paid by a group of guys on the XD forum that were interested in the results. It so happens that I met the owner of the company that makes the Extreme Shock ammo at the SHOT Show and he indicated that he was willing to send me some free ammo to test. He sure seemed to be a nice fellow. But I felt that if he did so, it might appear that I was prejudiced before the testing. This way, I can be totally honest in what I find.

I have two different types of ammo. The first is Extreme Shock 9MM 124FF, advertised as "Explosive Entry Fang Face, Enhanced Penetration". It is a "compressed Tungsten-NyTrillium Composite" fragmenting round.

They said that the bullet "fragments upon impact, leaving a wound channel of catastrophic proportions. The expansive fragmentation characteristics of the Extreme Shock rounds transfer the bullets energy in a far faster time span than conventional hollowpoints. The resulting stopping power is utterly devastating. E-Shock rounds are engineered to expend maximum energy into soft targets, turning the density mass into an expanding rotational cone of NyTrilium matrix particles, causing neurological collapse to the central nervous system."

The second ammo was "9MM 85AFR, R2LP-Air Freedom Round". This round will "reduced over-penetration and reduced ricochet characteristics of these rounds are nothing short of revolutionary. Over-penetration is minimized as the complete energy of the AFR bullet, including the fragmented bullet itself are typically contained within the target. The risk to EMS personnel is reduced because the rounds don't leave the many glove-shredding, razor sharp fragments of traditional rounds. The ExtremeShock™ AFR round disintegrates when it hits hard targets such as many interior walls and airplane skins, but retains astonishing stopping power on organic targets." Additionally they say, "is the best choice for home or urban carry. The rounds frangible and reduced ricochet characteristics provide a greater level of safety. A miss on a target won't penetrate through several walls, and potentially injure a sleeping family member."

Okay, sorry for the long information, but we need to know what this stuff is supposed to be able to do so we will know what to look for.

I cannot test for every possible variable, but we will look at two main issues. We will test for penetration in drywall (sheetrock) and we will test for penetration in water. I will shoot some other brands of rounds to use as a comparison.

I will shoot all rounds out of my Springfield XD, to make the guys at the XD Forum happy. (It's a fine little pistol.)



I had to dig out the old original Box O' Truth and cut up some 5/8 inch sheetrock to fill it with. It holds 12 sheets of drywall.



First, a round of Winchester Ranger SXT 9mm, +P+, 127 grain. Why this round? Because that is what I carry in my 9mms. I believe that it is the "best of the best" for now, in non-trick ammo.

As expected from past shoots, it went through all 12 sheets of drywall and the hole it made exiting indicated that it was expanded.

Next, a round of 9mm Glaser Blue Tip. These are also designed to reduce penetration.

It penetrated 6 sheets of drywall and bounced off the 7th.



Then a round of the ES Fang Face. We were surprised that it penetrated 11 sheets of drywall and bounced off the 12th. I sure am glad it stopped at 11, because we were able to recover the bullet. Here it is:



As you can see, it failed to upset and acted like a solid. I was so surprised at the results, that we shot another one.



It did the same thing.

Lastly a round of ES-R2LP-Air Freedom Round. It penetrated 4 boards and bounced off the 5th.



Here's what we recovered from that round.



Tman and I called an "audible" and we decided to try something we hadn't planned. We set up the box with a gallon of water first and followed by one "wall" of spaced drywall boards. This would indicate what happened if the rounds met resistance and then had a wall behind them.

Here's the set-up.



Here I am cutting lose with a Air Freedom round:



It blew up the jug and then bounced off the "wall".



Then we tried a Fang Face round. It also blew up the water jug and pieces of it stuck in the face of the "wall".



How about a test using water? We drug out the Waterbox O' Truth and bought a bunch of water jugs. We added some material in front, cotton towel and blue jeans to simulate clothing.



DocGKR, a recognized expert, once told me, "Be aware that water generally reveals the maximum upset which can occur to a projectile in soft tissue -your actual result in living tissue may be somewhat less. You can also use the water testing to get a rough estimate of bullet penetration depth in soft tissue--bullets penetrate approximately 1.6 to 2 times as much in water as in soft tissue".

So, we'll look at penetration using those standards.

First a round of Ranger SXT:



It penetrated 3 jugs, or approximately 10 inches of ballistic gelatin. It expanded just as expected:



Then a round of Glaser Blue Tip. It blew up the first jug and left pellets in the floor of the box.



Then a round of ES Fang Face. It blew up the first jug and stopped in the second jug. Here are the parts of jacket and powder from the bullet.



Lastly a round of ES-R2LP-Air Freedom. It blew up the first jug and dented the second jug. I cut away the jug so you could see the left over powder and jacket.




Lessons Learned:

The Extreme Shock ammo makes a couple of claims and we will look at the results. Please allow me to "paraphrase" some claims.

1. Claim: Their rounds are supposed to penetrate walls less than standard ammo.

Findings: The Fang Face penetrated 11 drywall boards, or over 5 interior walls without expanding or fragmenting. The Air Freedom round penetrated 4 boards, or 2 walls.

Less than a standard JHP round which penetrated all 12 boards, but still some penetration.

2. Claim: They are supposed to be able to penetrate a bad guy enough to be effective Stoppers.

Findings: Both the Fang Face and Air Freedom rounds only fully penetrated 1 jug and slightly entered the second jug. This is equilivant of 3 or 4 inches of penetration in ballistic gelatin. Some experts have doubts that this is enough penetration to reach the vital organs of a bad guy.

3. Claim: They are advertised as worth their cost.

Finding: The cost for this ammo averaged about $1.85 per round, delivered. I see this as a big problem with "Specialty" ammo. We all know that it is very important to function test any carry ammo through your firearm. Who will or can afford to run 50 or 100 rounds of this stuff through a firearm to be sure it functions without a hitch?

Even if someone buys enough ammo to fill their magazine, it is unlikely that they will thoroughly test the functionality of the ammo.

I'm sure this ammo costs a lot to manufacture. Is it worth the cost? You be the judge.


One thing for sure…..Shooting stuff is fun.

Thanks to my friends at HS2000/XDTalk Forum for sponsoring these tests. And, as always, thanks to Tman for the photo and water hauling help.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 9:54:49 AM EDT
EXTREME
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 9:57:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:00:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 10:01:22 AM EDT by thelastgunslinger]
awesome testing, as always.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:00:26 AM EDT
excellent write-up OP. i saw the donation thread on hs2000 and was anxious for the results.


i think i'll stick with the ranger +P+ as well.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:00:48 AM EDT
Old_Painless: The Unblinking Light O'Truth In An Advertising Hype World

(and I'm in advertising, too... )
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:01:22 AM EDT
Excellent testing as usual.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:01:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 10:03:40 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]
Doc did some gelatin testing of that ammo that pretty much demonstrates your results. It only penetrated 3 or 4 inches, which is WAAAY too shallow.

Good post as usual, O_P.

Lesson number 4 from this: When something is labeled "Explosive Entry Fang Face" or "Air-Freedom Round" don't buy it.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:02:21 AM EDT
Thanks for doing the test. I think it probably reinforced what many of us believed about specialty ammo with "extreme style" advertisements.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:02:28 AM EDT
$1.85 per round !!





Seems like about $1.50 of that was hype.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:02:34 AM EDT
I am somehow NOT surprised
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:02:52 AM EDT
cool!
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:05:02 AM EDT
So, the Glaser blue tip is essentially "frangible" ammo? It sounds like if your goal is to reduce any threat of over-penetration, frangible is just as effective as the EXTREME SHOCK at about 10% of the price. Please correct me if I am wrong in my anaylsis, here.

I would suggest you stick with the SXTs, O_P.

Thanks for the report. I hope you don't mind if I print it out for my Defensive Handgun class.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:05:03 AM EDT
Tag for the "shock" and awe some will have as a result of this test.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:05:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
$1.85 per round !!





Seems like about $1.50 of that was hype.



Hey, now! They have to pay somebody something to come up with cool names for mediocre performing bullets!! I mean, would YOU think to call that abomination "Explosive Entry Fang Face"??? I think not! It takes a special kind of joe to come up with that, mr. PHD!
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:05:12 AM EDT
Thanks OP, very good test. Also, amny thanks to the HS2000 guys for forking over the $$ for the ammo.

It may be worth noting that the president of Extreme Shock says that standard penetration tests do not show the performance of their ammo. They claim that the ammo is so effective in inducing traumatic shock, that tradtional levels of penetration are not required for incapacitation. I don't necessarily believe the claim, just wanted to mention it.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:06:31 AM EDT
appreciated your thorough testing and great pictures.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:06:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Thanks OP, very good test. Also, amny thanks to the HS2000 guys for forking over the $$ for the ammo.

It may be worth noting that the president of Extreme Shock says that standard penetration tests do not show the performance of their ammo. They claim that the ammo is so effective in inducing traumatic shock, that tradtional levels of penetration are not required for incapacitation. I don't necessarily believe the claim, just wanted to mention it.



Gee....That sounds an AWFUL lot like what the Blended Metal guys kept saying, didn't it???
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:07:37 AM EDT
I was expecting thoose results... that ammo is nothing but hype.


Well... I got one surprise... The ammo had enough energy after penetrating the jug to damage the area behind the jug. I was expecting it to expend all it's energy only after half the jug and therefore just put on an exelent water show.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:09:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Thanks OP, very good test. Also, amny thanks to the HS2000 guys for forking over the $$ for the ammo.

It may be worth noting that the president of Extreme Shock says that standard penetration tests do not show the performance of their ammo. They claim that the ammo is so effective in inducing traumatic shock, that tradtional levels of penetration are not required for incapacitation. I don't necessarily believe the claim, just wanted to mention it.



Gee....That sounds an AWFUL lot like what the Blended Metal guys kept saying, didn't it???



So, the only real way of proving its effectiveness is the "Human O Truth?"
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:09:38 AM EDT
About what I've come to expect from specialty ammo. I think I'll stick with my current loads.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:10:08 AM EDT
Great test and I use the Ranger 127 +p+. I'll stick with it.

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:10:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 10:11:28 AM EDT by Old_Painless]

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
So, the Glaser blue tip is essentially "frangible" ammo? It sounds like if your goal is to reduce any threat of over-penetration, frangible is just as effective as the EXTREME SHOCK at about 10% of the price. Please correct me if I am wrong in my anaylsis, here.



I would re-state that this way.....Glasers will blow-up before penetrating very much. Like some other "frangible" ammo.

However, many experts feel that this is the problem with that type of ammo.....it doesn't penetrate "enough" to reach the vital organs of a bad guy.


I would suggest you stick with the SXTs, O_P.


Don't worry. No change at this time.


Thanks for the report. I hope you don't mind if I print it out for my Defensive Handgun class.


Of course not. Please mention my site: www.theboxotruth.com/index.htm
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:11:07 AM EDT
Interesting that the first two "Fang Face" rounds appear to have collapsed on itself instead of expanding.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:11:17 AM EDT
Thanks
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:11:37 AM EDT
As always, thank you
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:12:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By triburst1:
Thanks OP, very good test. Also, amny thanks to the HS2000 guys for forking over the $$ for the ammo.

It may be worth noting that the president of Extreme Shock says that standard penetration tests do not show the performance of their ammo. They claim that the ammo is so effective in inducing traumatic shock, that tradtional levels of penetration are not required for incapacitation. I don't necessarily believe the claim, just wanted to mention it.




our stuff does not penetrate as much as other bullet, but thats ok because your test parameters aren't up the the level of our ammo....

what a joke.

pardon me while I laugh in your general direction Mr Extreme Shock

Good test and writeup as usual OP.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:12:38 AM EDT
If I had more money I'd buy OP some of that fancy shotgun ammo (flechettes, primer tipped, chainshot etc) just to see the results.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:13:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 10:14:00 AM EDT by phatmax]
THATS EXTREME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -ly expensive
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:13:13 AM EDT
Awesome write up as always O.P. !

O.P. and Tman in 08'
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:14:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
$1.85 per round !!





Seems like about $1.50 of that was hype.



Hey, now! They have to pay somebody something to come up with cool names for mediocre performing bullets!! I mean, would YOU think to call that abomination "Explosive Entry Fang Face"??? I think not! It takes a special kind of joe to come up with that, mr. PHD!



I have to admit, that "Explosive Entry Fang Face" is a pretty bitchin' name for a bullet!

S&W should totally have called their new AR-15 the "Extreme Tactical Smackdown Shooter" - they'd be selling like hotcakes.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:16:43 AM EDT
I want to see how it penetrates in snake oil.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:17:12 AM EDT
Reminds me of the Pin Grabber and Glaser rounds.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:18:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:
So, the Glaser blue tip is essentially "frangible" ammo? It sounds like if your goal is to reduce any threat of over-penetration, frangible is just as effective as the EXTREME SHOCK at about 10% of the price. Please correct me if I am wrong in my anaylsis, here.



I would re-state that this way.....Glasers will blow-up before penetrating very much. Like some other "frangible" ammo.

However, many experts feel that this is the problem with that type of ammo.....it doesn't penetrate "enough" to reach the vital organs of a bad guy.



Roger that. That's why Factory ammo such as Speer GD, Win SXT and Fed HST are developed over years and years to do exactly what the EXTREME SHOCK claims to do. IMO, a good COM hit will cause the above mentioned bullets to expand as they are designed to and transfer the majority of their energy to that target before exiting. What little energy may be left if a bullet "overpenetrates" will be much less lethal than when it was fired if you have a "good hit".

Thanks again for the info! Shooting stuff IS fun!

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:21:30 AM EDT
I was waiting for you to test this.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:25:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By UH_SALT_RIFLE:
Awesome write up as always O.P. !

O.P. and Tman in 08'




+1

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:25:46 AM EDT
O_P,

As always, your information is the best provided on this board.

Have you ever thought of running for Governor or POTUS? If so, you've got my vote!

HH
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:38:07 AM EDT
"Fang Face"..if that aint .
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:38:46 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
O_P,

As always, your information is the best provided on this board.

Have you ever thought of running for Governor or POTUS? If so, you've got my vote!

HH



Thanks a lot, HH.

UH_SALT_RIFLE and HermanSnerd seem to think I have a chance at the POTUS.

Do you suppose I could have a range put in behind the White House?

If so, I might be interested.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:40:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mcnielsen:

So, the only real way of proving its effectiveness is the "Human O Truth?"




We do have a test subject that does post in the Minnesota boards and comes out to the range with us on a regular basis



Someone want to call death451 and talk him into this

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:40:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
O_P,

As always, your information is the best provided on this board.

Have you ever thought of running for Governor or POTUS? If so, you've got my vote!

HH



Thanks a lot, HH.

UH_SALT_RIFLE and HermanSnerd seem to think I have a chance at the POTUS.

Do you suppose I could have a range put in behind the White House?

If so, I might be interested.



President Lincoln used to shoot behind the White House.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:40:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
O_P,

As always, your information is the best provided on this board.

Have you ever thought of running for Governor or POTUS? If so, you've got my vote!

HH



Thanks a lot, HH.

UH_SALT_RIFLE and HermanSnerd seem to think I have a chance at the POTUS.

Do you suppose I could have a range put in behind the White House?

If so, I might be interested.



I'd even help you build it!



HH
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:41:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:41:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:
President Lincoln used to shoot behind the White House.



I think I'll pass on filling Lincoln's shoes.

Especially the Ford Theater part.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:44:50 AM EDT
super cool OP.
tag for home.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:45:29 AM EDT
O_P!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you have one or two Fang Face rounds left...

How about putting a jug of water behind the forth layer of sheet rock?

Dave S
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:48:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By HoustonHusker:
O_P,

As always, your information is the best provided on this board.

Have you ever thought of running for Governor or POTUS? If so, you've got my vote!

HH



Thanks a lot, HH.

UH_SALT_RIFLE and HermanSnerd seem to think I have a chance at the POTUS.

Do you suppose I could have a range put in behind the White House?

If so, I might be interested.



President Lincoln used to shoot behind the White House.



Where did TR shoot when he was in office?

...

No matter. I want to be "Secretary Of Handing Old Painless Clean Guns To Shoot"
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:48:41 AM EDT
nice looking firearm! Im a hs2000talk member also
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:50:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DaveS:
O_P!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you have one or two Fang Face rounds left...

How about putting a jug of water behind the forth layer of sheet rock?

Dave S



While I wouldn't mind doing that, surely you can appreciate the infinite number of combinations of sheetrock and water jugs that could be imagined.

I tried to use the most obvious main combinations today. Many, many more would be possible.

The old 80-20 rule would apply. More and more combinations would result in less and less additional learnings.

But thanks for the suggestion anyway,
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:50:13 AM EDT
Forget a range behind the White House. Think what you could do with the Mall!
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:51:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
No matter. I want to be "Secretary Of Handing Old Painless Clean Guns To Shoot"



I always wanted a Gun Hander.

You have dibs.
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