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Posted: 3/15/2006 7:15:58 PM EDT
I have an 18 month old son and two dogs,i have had these dogs for 5 years. Tonight one of the dogs growled and snapped at my son. I dont know what to do. he has never done this before, i smacked him in the head when he did it. I dont know what to do, He has never been aggresive before, i dont know what the deal is. This really sucks.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:19:48 PM EDT
One of my dogs recently bit me for the first time, really really hard, was bleeding all over and everything. He was a six year old chocolate lab that never had any history of any aggressive behavior. I let that one slide, but a few weeks later, he bit my 2 year old nephew real hard as well. I shot him a few minutes afterwards.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:20:43 PM EDT
the dog is used to his place as being below you. Now he is below another animal. He is trying to figure out where his place is. If you have ANY thoughts he might bite, find him a new home.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:26:09 PM EDT
many people will tell you to get rid of the dogs because your sons life is more valuable.

while that is true, i'm not sure what i'd do. they obviously view him as a heirarchical hurdle, at the very least i'd keep a very close eye on things for awhile.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:26:22 PM EDT
If he had bitten my son i would have shot him then and there,but i think i will give him another chance.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:29:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 7:32:29 PM EDT by bastiat]
There are things you can do to teach your dog that his place is below you and your family - e.g, you feeding your child and eating yourself before feeding your dogs, taking your son in and out of the house before the dogs, etc. If you don't keep this up they will get the idea that they are higher up in the 'pack' than your children.

Someone here probably knows them all, or you can find it at google. In the meantime,though, be extra careful with the dogs around the kid.

ETA: Check this out

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/topdogchild.htm
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:33:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I have an 18 month old son and two dogs,i have had these dogs for 5 years. Tonight one of the dogs growled and snapped at my son. I dont know what to do. he has never done this before, i smacked him in the head when he did it. I dont know what to do, He has never been aggresive before, i dont know what the deal is. This really sucks.



Theres a sad end that has to come harry. It will only become sadder if he bites your son.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:36:42 PM EDT
That really sucks, sometimes dog's do things that you can't explain and never will.
It could be what the other posters are saying here. and it could not be.
when I was just a little kid ,I watched my friends dog bite him in the face once for no reason what so ever, Never was explained but his father shot it a while later.
I wish I could be more help
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:41:19 PM EDT
I was fortunate. My Black Lab would protect and love our newborn baby girl, and Kelsey was 5 years old at the time. She'd gently kiss her and was incredibly gentle.

I wouldn't tolerate a dog for ONE SECOND that didn't show love and gentleness for me or my family.

YMMV.

HH
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:45:41 PM EDT
Find dog a home. Or shoot it in the head and bury in backyard. Your childs life is more important
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 7:57:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 8:03:14 PM EDT by 1IV]
Try working with the dog a little. Show pack favoritism to your Son, and beat that dog down the instant he expresses agression. It has to be instant. It will get the mesage.



Originally Posted By adair_usmc:
One of my dogs recently bit me for the first time, really really hard, was bleeding all over and everything. He was a six year old chocolate lab that never had any history of any aggressive behavior. I let that one slide, but a few weeks later, he bit my 2 year old nephew real hard as well. I shot him a few minutes afterwards.



It is Hard to do.
Thanks for ending the cycle.
Been there.....
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:03:51 PM EDT
What was the circumstances of the dog snapping at your little boy? What kind of dog?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:23:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1IV:
Try working with the dog a little. Show pack favoritism to your Son, and beat that dog down the instant he expresses agression. It has to be instant. It will get the mesage.



Yup. Tha'ts good advice.

Remember, your dog is a responsiblity too, if you care about it help it to understand. It's not challenging your son to be a jerk, it's confused about its place in the pack and is in turmoil. A dog will accept being the bottom of the pack, but he needs to know that's where he belongs. You do that by reprimanding him, first off, and showing him some support when he behaves himself there because that teaches him that being the low man on the ladder isn't a bad thing.

Also, obviously, you have to be careful with him and not trust him around your children....not at first anyway. He will have to earn that trust.

Don't give up on the dog, do some research, work with him and he may turn out to be your children's protector instead of a problem.

Been there, done that.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 8:34:11 PM EDT
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs. This is a golden retriever and my son was not doing anything to the dog that should bring out this behavior. The dog has always got the message pretty fast when he is not supposed to be doing something, i hope he learns this one pretty quick.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:23:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs.



No one's debating that with you.

All I'm trying to say is understand your dog's nature, and it may not be necessary to do away with a family pet. There's no reason he can't learn, if you're willing to put in the time.

Dogs aren't people, they operate on instinct 99.9% of the time. If you understand that instinct, and deal with it in a way that the dog understands, GENERALLY you can avoid aggression between pack members (your dog and your children).

But, if you wanna drag the mutt outside and cap its ass (as was suggested by the 40IQ folks above), then have at it.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:49:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs.



No one's debating that with you.

All I'm trying to say is understand your dog's nature, and it may not be necessary to do away with a family pet. There's no reason he can't learn, if you're willing to put in the time.

Dogs aren't people, they operate on instinct 99.9% of the time. If you understand that instinct, and deal with it in a way that the dog understands, GENERALLY you can avoid aggression between pack members (your dog and your children).

But, if you wanna drag the mutt outside and cap its ass (as was suggested by the 40IQ folks above), then have at it.



how do i make the dog understand his place in the family?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:51:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs.



No one's debating that with you.

All I'm trying to say is understand your dog's nature, and it may not be necessary to do away with a family pet. There's no reason he can't learn, if you're willing to put in the time.

Dogs aren't people, they operate on instinct 99.9% of the time. If you understand that instinct, and deal with it in a way that the dog understands, GENERALLY you can avoid aggression between pack members (your dog and your children).

But, if you wanna drag the mutt outside and cap its ass (as was suggested by the 40IQ folks above), then have at it.



how do i make the dog understand his place in the family?



I already posted a link:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/topdogchild.htm

20 or so things you can do. Saying "bad dog" isn't going to cut it.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:56:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs.



No one's debating that with you.

All I'm trying to say is understand your dog's nature, and it may not be necessary to do away with a family pet. There's no reason he can't learn, if you're willing to put in the time.

Dogs aren't people, they operate on instinct 99.9% of the time. If you understand that instinct, and deal with it in a way that the dog understands, GENERALLY you can avoid aggression between pack members (your dog and your children).

But, if you wanna drag the mutt outside and cap its ass (as was suggested by the 40IQ folks above), then have at it.



how do i make the dog understand his place in the family?



I already posted a link:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/topdogchild.htm

20 or so things you can do. Saying "bad dog" isn't going to cut it.



That does not tell me much,the dog knows that i am in charge but how do i teach him that the kid is?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:01:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs.



No one's debating that with you.

All I'm trying to say is understand your dog's nature, and it may not be necessary to do away with a family pet. There's no reason he can't learn, if you're willing to put in the time.

Dogs aren't people, they operate on instinct 99.9% of the time. If you understand that instinct, and deal with it in a way that the dog understands, GENERALLY you can avoid aggression between pack members (your dog and your children).

But, if you wanna drag the mutt outside and cap its ass (as was suggested by the 40IQ folks above), then have at it.



how do i make the dog understand his place in the family?



I already posted a link:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/topdogchild.htm

20 or so things you can do. Saying "bad dog" isn't going to cut it.



That does not tell me much,the dog knows that i am in charge but how do i teach him that the kid is?



Did you even bother to read it? About half the 24 things on the list apply directly to children, and other others can be applied indirectly as well.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:10:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

I already posted a link:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/topdogchild.htm

20 or so things you can do. Saying "bad dog" isn't going to cut it.



That does not tell me much,the dog knows that i am in charge but how do i teach him that the kid is?



Read the suggestions on that link, and follow them.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:11:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs.



No one's debating that with you.

All I'm trying to say is understand your dog's nature, and it may not be necessary to do away with a family pet. There's no reason he can't learn, if you're willing to put in the time.

Dogs aren't people, they operate on instinct 99.9% of the time. If you understand that instinct, and deal with it in a way that the dog understands, GENERALLY you can avoid aggression between pack members (your dog and your children).

But, if you wanna drag the mutt outside and cap its ass (as was suggested by the 40IQ folks above), then have at it.



how do i make the dog understand his place in the family?



I already posted a link:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/topdogchild.htm

20 or so things you can do. Saying "bad dog" isn't going to cut it.



That does not tell me much,the dog knows that i am in charge but how do i teach him that the kid is?



Did you even bother to read it? About half the 24 things on the list apply directly to children, and other others can be applied indirectly as well.



Yes i read it,and we the humans always eat before the dogs. I am still trying to figure out how i can get my 18 month old to feed the dogs. None of that shit can help me and the dog in the situation we are in. What i am saying is there is no way for me to make my baby establish dominence over this dog. This dog is the alfa male and i my son is not old enough to take control of him. I wish i knew how to spell most of the words i just used.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:13:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs.



No one's debating that with you.

All I'm trying to say is understand your dog's nature, and it may not be necessary to do away with a family pet. There's no reason he can't learn, if you're willing to put in the time.

Dogs aren't people, they operate on instinct 99.9% of the time. If you understand that instinct, and deal with it in a way that the dog understands, GENERALLY you can avoid aggression between pack members (your dog and your children).

But, if you wanna drag the mutt outside and cap its ass (as was suggested by the 40IQ folks above), then have at it.



how do i make the dog understand his place in the family?



I already posted a link:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/topdogchild.htm

20 or so things you can do. Saying "bad dog" isn't going to cut it.



That does not tell me much,the dog knows that i am in charge but how do i teach him that the kid is?



Did you even bother to read it? About half the 24 things on the list apply directly to children, and other others can be applied indirectly as well.



Yes i read it,and we the humans always eat before the dogs. I am still trying to figure out how i can get my 18 month old to feed the dogs. None of that shit can help me and the dog in the situation we are in. What i am saying is there is no way for me to make my baby establish dominence over this dog. This dog is the alfa male and i my son is not old enough to take control of him. I wish i knew how to spell most of the words i just used.



Then maybe you should just get rid of the dogs until you figure this all out.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:17:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs.



No one's debating that with you.

All I'm trying to say is understand your dog's nature, and it may not be necessary to do away with a family pet. There's no reason he can't learn, if you're willing to put in the time.

Dogs aren't people, they operate on instinct 99.9% of the time. If you understand that instinct, and deal with it in a way that the dog understands, GENERALLY you can avoid aggression between pack members (your dog and your children).

But, if you wanna drag the mutt outside and cap its ass (as was suggested by the 40IQ folks above), then have at it.



how do i make the dog understand his place in the family?



I already posted a link:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/topdogchild.htm

20 or so things you can do. Saying "bad dog" isn't going to cut it.



That does not tell me much,the dog knows that i am in charge but how do i teach him that the kid is?



Did you even bother to read it? About half the 24 things on the list apply directly to children, and other others can be applied indirectly as well.



Yes i read it,and we the humans always eat before the dogs. I am still trying to figure out how i can get my 18 month old to feed the dogs. None of that shit can help me and the dog in the situation we are in. What i am saying is there is no way for me to make my baby establish dominence over this dog. This dog is the alfa male and i my son is not old enough to take control of him. I wish i knew how to spell most of the words i just used.



Then maybe you should just get rid of the dogs until you figure this all out.



Maybe you should STFU, i am trying to say that the story in the link you posted has nothing to do with the way things are in this house.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:23:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 10:23:34 PM EDT by bastiat]

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs.



No one's debating that with you.

All I'm trying to say is understand your dog's nature, and it may not be necessary to do away with a family pet. There's no reason he can't learn, if you're willing to put in the time.

Dogs aren't people, they operate on instinct 99.9% of the time. If you understand that instinct, and deal with it in a way that the dog understands, GENERALLY you can avoid aggression between pack members (your dog and your children).

But, if you wanna drag the mutt outside and cap its ass (as was suggested by the 40IQ folks above), then have at it.



how do i make the dog understand his place in the family?



I already posted a link:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/topdogchild.htm

20 or so things you can do. Saying "bad dog" isn't going to cut it.



That does not tell me much,the dog knows that i am in charge but how do i teach him that the kid is?



Did you even bother to read it? About half the 24 things on the list apply directly to children, and other others can be applied indirectly as well.



Yes i read it,and we the humans always eat before the dogs. I am still trying to figure out how i can get my 18 month old to feed the dogs. None of that shit can help me and the dog in the situation we are in. What i am saying is there is no way for me to make my baby establish dominence over this dog. This dog is the alfa male and i my son is not old enough to take control of him. I wish i knew how to spell most of the words i just used.



Then maybe you should just get rid of the dogs until you figure this all out.



Maybe you should STFU, i am trying to say that the story in the link you posted has nothing to do with the way things are in this house.



And I'm saying that if you can not extrapolate those 24 tips to your situation, then perhaps you should either seek the help of a professional dog handler or get rid of your dogs.


1. The middle child must now be the only one to feed the dogs. She must give the dogs a command before she gives them their food. If a dog does not follow her command (i.e. to sit), he does not eat.

2. All humans must eat Before the dogs, as the leader always eats first. When you give your dog its food eat a small snack first while he is watching, lay the snack near the dogs food so that he thinks you are eating out of his bowl (the leader always eats first)

3. No table scraps should be fed to the dogs during a meal.

4. Feedings must be at a scheduled time. (no self feeding dog food dispensers should be used, as this allows The Dog to Choose when he eats.)

5. The child must not let the dog go through any doorways first. Dogs must always go through the doorways After the humans, as the leader of the pack always goes first. The dog must be told to "stay" and given the command to "come" after all humans have passed through. (Read Training to find out the necessary basic commands all dogs should know)

6. When you have left the house or the room, even for a minute and come back in the room, ignore the dog for a few minutes.

7. A simple obedience command such as “Sit” should be given before any pleasurable interaction with the dog. (i.e. play session, petting, feeding or a walk etc…) The children should give the dogs commands at least once a day and reward with a treat when the command is followed. A simple “Sit” will do. No treat should be awarded if the dog does not follow the command.

8. The children should not lay on the floor to watch TV when the dog is around and no one should roll around the floor playing with the dogs, as a human should never put himself in an equal or lesser height position than the dog.

9. You are the one who greets newcomers first, the dog is the last who gets attention (the pack leader is the one who greets newcomers and lets the rest know when it is safe to greet the newcomer)

10. If a dog is laying in your path, the dog Must get up and move out of your way. Do not step over the dog even if you can. In the wild, the pack leader always makes the lower dogs in the pack move.

11. During the time the child is establishing her higher pack position, no hugs should be given to the dog by the child, as a dominant dog may consider this a challenge of power.

12. If you establish eye contact with the dog, the dog must avert his gaze first. If the human averts first this reinforces the dogs higher power position. Tell the children Not to have staring contest with the dog, as if they avert or blink first, it will only reinforce, in the dogs mind, that He is Top Dog.

13. Dogs must not sleep in your bed. The comfortable bed is reserved for the higher humans.

14. Dogs must never be allowed to mouth or bite anyone at any time, including in play.

15. Any attention given to the dog, including petting should be given when the Human decides attention is to be given (absolutely No Petting when the dog nudges or paws you or your hand. This would be letting the dog decide and reinforcing, in his mind, that he is higher on the scale than the human.)

16. Games of fetch or play with toys must be Started and Ended by the Human.

17. Dogs should not be allowed to lie on your furniture, as the leader of the pack always gets the most comfortable spot. Dogs belong on the floor.

18. No tug-of-war, as this is a game of power and you may lose the game giving the dog a reinforcement (in the dog's mind) of top dog.

19. Dogs need to be taught a “Drop it” or release command. Any objects the dog has in his possession should be able to be taken away by all humans.

20. Dogs own no possessions, everything belongs to the humans. They are all on "loan" from the human family. You should be able to handle or remove any item at all times from the dog with no problems from the dog. Even if you are taking a chicken bone out of the dog's mouth.

21. Dogs should not be allowed to pull on the leash. When they do this they are leading the way and it is the humans that need to lead the way and show they're higher up in the pack order. (In the wild, the leader of the pack always leads the way; the leader leads the hunt.)

22. When on a walk, a dog must not be allowed to sniff or eliminate anywhere he wishes. One marking against a tree is enough for male dogs.

23. Small dogs or puppies who demand to be picked up or put down should Not get what they want until they sit or do another acceptable quiet behavior. They should not be put down unless they are settled quietly in your arms.

24. Dogs should Never be left unsupervised with children or Anyone who cannot maintain leadership over the dog.

Holy crap. Can you not see that "eat before your dog" = feed your child before your dog, "stay abvoe dogs eye level" = "keep your child above dog's eye level", "enter / leave rooms before your dog" = take child in / out of room before your dog"??????

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:26:28 PM EDT
Umm your not a picking up what we are puting down. Your dog growled and snapped. He was "Talking" to your boy. He was chalenging the new "puppy " trying to say Im not going to tollerate you comeing near me. Pick your son up in your arms and help him hold the treat to feed the dog. Feed the dog left overs from the babys food. His scent will be on the food, and the dog will realize his food is dependent on the childs "kill"/ leftovers. Starve the dog for two days, and help your son hand feed the dog for two more days. Play around with the dog and your son at the same time on the floor. Help that little baby play and pet that dog. Help the dog to understand he is to serve this member of the family too. But here is the key to training the dog. Treat him like a prisoner until he accepts the boy as a sourse of food, affection, and dicipline.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:32:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By bastiat:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs.



No one's debating that with you.

All I'm trying to say is understand your dog's nature, and it may not be necessary to do away with a family pet. There's no reason he can't learn, if you're willing to put in the time.

Dogs aren't people, they operate on instinct 99.9% of the time. If you understand that instinct, and deal with it in a way that the dog understands, GENERALLY you can avoid aggression between pack members (your dog and your children).

But, if you wanna drag the mutt outside and cap its ass (as was suggested by the 40IQ folks above), then have at it.



how do i make the dog understand his place in the family?



I already posted a link:

http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/topdogchild.htm

20 or so things you can do. Saying "bad dog" isn't going to cut it.



That does not tell me much,the dog knows that i am in charge but how do i teach him that the kid is?



Did you even bother to read it? About half the 24 things on the list apply directly to children, and other others can be applied indirectly as well.



Yes i read it,and we the humans always eat before the dogs. I am still trying to figure out how i can get my 18 month old to feed the dogs. None of that shit can help me and the dog in the situation we are in. What i am saying is there is no way for me to make my baby establish dominence over this dog. This dog is the alfa male and i my son is not old enough to take control of him. I wish i knew how to spell most of the words i just used.



Then maybe you should just get rid of the dogs until you figure this all out.



Maybe you should STFU, i am trying to say that the story in the link you posted has nothing to do with the way things are in this house.



And I'm saying that if you can not extrapolate those 24 tips to your situation, then perhaps you should either seek the help of a professional dog handler or get rid of your dogs.


1. The middle child must now be the only one to feed the dogs. She must give the dogs a command before she gives them their food. If a dog does not follow her command (i.e. to sit), he does not eat.

2. All humans must eat Before the dogs, as the leader always eats first. When you give your dog its food eat a small snack first while he is watching, lay the snack near the dogs food so that he thinks you are eating out of his bowl (the leader always eats first)

3. No table scraps should be fed to the dogs during a meal.

4. Feedings must be at a scheduled time. (no self feeding dog food dispensers should be used, as this allows The Dog to Choose when he eats.)

5. The child must not let the dog go through any doorways first. Dogs must always go through the doorways After the humans, as the leader of the pack always goes first. The dog must be told to "stay" and given the command to "come" after all humans have passed through. (Read Training to find out the necessary basic commands all dogs should know)

6. When you have left the house or the room, even for a minute and come back in the room, ignore the dog for a few minutes.

7. A simple obedience command such as “Sit” should be given before any pleasurable interaction with the dog. (i.e. play session, petting, feeding or a walk etc…) The children should give the dogs commands at least once a day and reward with a treat when the command is followed. A simple “Sit” will do. No treat should be awarded if the dog does not follow the command.

8. The children should not lay on the floor to watch TV when the dog is around and no one should roll around the floor playing with the dogs, as a human should never put himself in an equal or lesser height position than the dog.

9. You are the one who greets newcomers first, the dog is the last who gets attention (the pack leader is the one who greets newcomers and lets the rest know when it is safe to greet the newcomer)

10. If a dog is laying in your path, the dog Must get up and move out of your way. Do not step over the dog even if you can. In the wild, the pack leader always makes the lower dogs in the pack move.

11. During the time the child is establishing her higher pack position, no hugs should be given to the dog by the child, as a dominant dog may consider this a challenge of power.

12. If you establish eye contact with the dog, the dog must avert his gaze first. If the human averts first this reinforces the dogs higher power position. Tell the children Not to have staring contest with the dog, as if they avert or blink first, it will only reinforce, in the dogs mind, that He is Top Dog.

13. Dogs must not sleep in your bed. The comfortable bed is reserved for the higher humans.

14. Dogs must never be allowed to mouth or bite anyone at any time, including in play.

15. Any attention given to the dog, including petting should be given when the Human decides attention is to be given (absolutely No Petting when the dog nudges or paws you or your hand. This would be letting the dog decide and reinforcing, in his mind, that he is higher on the scale than the human.)

16. Games of fetch or play with toys must be Started and Ended by the Human.

17. Dogs should not be allowed to lie on your furniture, as the leader of the pack always gets the most comfortable spot. Dogs belong on the floor.

18. No tug-of-war, as this is a game of power and you may lose the game giving the dog a reinforcement (in the dog's mind) of top dog.

19. Dogs need to be taught a “Drop it” or release command. Any objects the dog has in his possession should be able to be taken away by all humans.

20. Dogs own no possessions, everything belongs to the humans. They are all on "loan" from the human family. You should be able to handle or remove any item at all times from the dog with no problems from the dog. Even if you are taking a chicken bone out of the dog's mouth.

21. Dogs should not be allowed to pull on the leash. When they do this they are leading the way and it is the humans that need to lead the way and show they're higher up in the pack order. (In the wild, the leader of the pack always leads the way; the leader leads the hunt.)

22. When on a walk, a dog must not be allowed to sniff or eliminate anywhere he wishes. One marking against a tree is enough for male dogs.

23. Small dogs or puppies who demand to be picked up or put down should Not get what they want until they sit or do another acceptable quiet behavior. They should not be put down unless they are settled quietly in your arms.

24. Dogs should Never be left unsupervised with children or Anyone who cannot maintain leadership over the dog.

Holy crap. Can you not see that "eat before your dog" = feed your child before your dog, "stay abvoe dogs eye level" = "keep your child above dog's eye level", "enter / leave rooms before your dog" = take child in / out of room before your dog"??????




I do all of these things with the dogs, maybe this dog is retarded? The dogs know that me and my GF are in charge,but this one dog seems to have a problem with my son. There is no dought that i am in charge of them,when i walk they get out of the way. One dog just does not seem to understand that the boy is above him,and i do not know what else to do.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:34:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 1IV:
Umm your not a picking up what we are puting down. Your dog growled and snapped. He was "Talking" to your boy. He was chalenging the new "puppy " trying to say Im not going to tollerate you comeing near me. Pick your son up in your arms and help him hold the treat to feed the dog. Feed the dog left overs from the babys food. His scent will be on the food, and the dog will realize his food is dependent on the childs "kill"/ leftovers. Starve the dog for two days, and help your son hand feed the dog for two more days. Play around with the dog and your son at the same time on the floor. Help that little baby play and pet that dog. Help the dog to understand he is to serve this member of the family too. But here is the key to training the dog. Treat him like a prisoner until he accepts the boy as a sourse of food, affection, and dicipline.



I am just thrown off because this just came up today even though my son has been interacting with them for 4 months now.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:42:40 PM EDT
Hey look no dog is safe. Period. Never believe otherwise.

People say golden retrievers and labs are the most loyal and friendly to humans. But even that is ultimately BS.

I'll give you a short example. This was MY fault and I learned a lesson from it. I was at a coffee shop with my bro and my 4 year old daughter was playing around in the outside patio. She and another kid walked up to this golden retriever that was leashed up to the fence. It seemed nice enough to them because they started petting it's back. The dog just sat there and didn't really react. My daughter and the kid went off somewhere and came back again to pet the dog. Imagine this. This golden retriever dog busted out with the most ferocious bare-fanged growl that you can imagine. I thought it was going to eat my daughter. In less than half a second I had already sprinted over to the situation and yelled at the dog like this quote "FUCKING DOG" "GET OUT OF HERE". That's just the first thing that came out of my mouth. But trust me it was as loud as a man can yell. When I was yelling I was preparing myself for the dog to attack me. I really thought it was going to attack me and I was thinking of my benchmade in my knife sheath. But the dog didn't attack. It was so scared by my yelling that it yanked the fence out of the ground which it was attached to with a leash. It ran off into the parking lot dragging about 5 feet of metal fence behind it and it would have kept on going except for the fact that it got wedged in between two cars.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 11:07:02 PM EDT
You could get a dog like mine.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 11:16:05 PM EDT
Man-card..... Now . Just leave it on the table and get out.

<­img src=/images/smilies/icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>
Just kiddiing. I grew up with a Cocker Poodle mix .
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 11:17:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MOGWAR:
You could get a dog like mine.
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/MOGWAR/DSCN2488.jpg



Owning that dog doesn't make you gay.

Giving it clothes does.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 11:22:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 11:23:19 PM EDT by MOGWAR]

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By MOGWAR:
You could get a dog like mine.
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/MOGWAR/DSCN2488.jpg



Owning that dog doesn't make you gay.

Giving it clothes does.


Owning that dog makes me straight, buying it clothes gets me laid, suck on that beeeotch!
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 4:14:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By swingset:

Originally Posted By MOGWAR:
You could get a dog like mine.
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/MOGWAR/DSCN2488.jpg



Owning that dog doesn't make you gay.

Giving it clothes does.



+1

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 4:20:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 4:23:57 AM EDT by Hokie]
Your dog just needs to relearn it's place in the pecking order.

I don't think you smacked him hard enough. I only smack my dog on very rare occasions now. It gets the point clearly now and I only have to make eye contact with the dog to convey my opinion on the matter.

My dog is also 5 and I have a 1 year old daughter with another kid due in September. I have no worries - neither does the dog!

Dogs need tough discipline & rewarding affection. There's absolutely no middle ground with dogs.

It's the only way to make a existing dog work with a new child in the house. If that doesn't work for you then you'll be looking for a new home for your dog. You won't sleep at night until you fix this. I know I wouldn't.

Good luck!
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 4:22:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MOGWAR:
You could get a dog like mine.
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/MOGWAR/DSCN2488.jpg






sorry man, I don't mean to laugh....but come on....tell me you don't shake your head in wonderment sometimes!!!!

"...I coulda had a black lab....."
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 5:30:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs. This is a golden retriever and my son was not doing anything to the dog that should bring out this behavior. The dog has always got the message pretty fast when he is not supposed to be doing something, i hope he learns this one pretty quick.



What exactly happened? In order to fix the problem I need to understand. Was the dog sleeping and boy stumbled over him? Was the dog just randomingly being agressive? What exactly did he do? Did he growl, did he snap, did he bear his teeth?

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 5:37:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs. This is a golden retriever and my son was not doing anything to the dog that should bring out this behavior. The dog has always got the message pretty fast when he is not supposed to be doing something, i hope he learns this one pretty quick.



What exactly happened? In order to fix the problem I need to understand. Was the dog sleeping and boy stumbled over him? Was the dog just randomingly being agressive? What exactly did he do? Did he growl, did he snap, did he bear his teeth?




The dog was sitting next to the couch and my son walked over and put his hands on the dogs back,he growled and showed his teeth,thats when i smaked him. The boy was not doing anything wrong to the dog. After reading the 24 things lin the list with a clear head i see a couple things that i am doing wrong.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 5:45:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By pattymcn:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs. This is a golden retriever and my son was not doing anything to the dog that should bring out this behavior. The dog has always got the message pretty fast when he is not supposed to be doing something, i hope he learns this one pretty quick.



What exactly happened? In order to fix the problem I need to understand. Was the dog sleeping and boy stumbled over him? Was the dog just randomingly being agressive? What exactly did he do? Did he growl, did he snap, did he bear his teeth?




The dog was sitting next to the couch and my son walked over and put his hands on the dogs back,he growled and showed his teeth,thats when i smaked him. The boy was not doing anything wrong to the dog. After reading the 24 things lin the list with a clear head i see a couple things that i am doing wrong.




How old is your little boy?

I would necessarily advocate smacking your dog if he shows any signs of aggression. Hitting him doesn't send the message you need to send. The message you need to send is YOU are subservant to me and my family. If he shows any signs of dominance or agression grab him by the throat throw him on his back and choke him down and pin him down by his neck. Point your finger at him and stare into his eyes and make him fear you. Once he submits to your superiority then allow him to lay at your feet.

How much obedience training does the dog have? Is he crate trained?
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 5:53:40 AM EDT
Get rid of the dog. Now. Today.

Yes, this is extreme and you probably really love your dog, but ask yourself two simple questions:

1) Can I live with myself if I get rid of the dog?

2) Can I live with myself if I keep the dog & it maims or kills my child?

I have reviewed a couple of child deaths from dog attacks - unpleasant in the extreme, and the owners never expected it.

IMHO, your dog has given you fair warning. In your shoes I wouldn't gamble with my child's life, but YMMV.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 5:57:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:

Originally Posted By pattymcn:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I thought we had already established that the boy came before the dogs. This is a golden retriever and my son was not doing anything to the dog that should bring out this behavior. The dog has always got the message pretty fast when he is not supposed to be doing something, i hope he learns this one pretty quick.



What exactly happened? In order to fix the problem I need to understand. Was the dog sleeping and boy stumbled over him? Was the dog just randomingly being agressive? What exactly did he do? Did he growl, did he snap, did he bear his teeth?




The dog was sitting next to the couch and my son walked over and put his hands on the dogs back,he growled and showed his teeth,thats when i smaked him. The boy was not doing anything wrong to the dog. After reading the 24 things lin the list with a clear head i see a couple things that i am doing wrong.




How old is your little boy?

I would necessarily advocate smacking your dog if he shows any signs of aggression. Hitting him doesn't send the message you need to send. The message you need to send is YOU are subservant to me and my family. If he shows any signs of dominance or agression grab him by the throat throw him on his back and choke him down and pin him down by his neck. Point your finger at him and stare into his eyes and make him fear you. Once he submits to your superiority then allow him to lay at your feet.

How much obedience training does the dog have? Is he crate trained?



What does crate trained mean? I have never heard that before. The dogs both do as they are told and i have never had any problems with them before,they have been good, well behaved dogs. My son is 18 months.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:04:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 6:05:44 AM EDT by pattymcn]

Originally Posted By HarrySacz: How much obedience training does the dog have? Is he crate trained?

What does crate trained mean? I have never heard that before. The dogs both do as they are told and i have never had any problems with them before,they have been good, well behaved dogs. My son is 18 months.



Crate trained means he will go into a crate on command. A crate is typically a hard plastic box made to hold dogs.

Crate training a dog helps with social dominance issues. A dog that is crate trained tends to be more laid back and more submissive to others dominance. I would recommend immediately to start crate training your dogs.

Next, putting a dog through a series of obedience exercises exerts your authority over them and instills the notion that they are subservent to you. I would recommend working withyour dog on come, sit, stay, heel and down and get it to where you can snap out these commands and he'll quickly comply. Give affection for reward, not food.

How old is your dog? Is he neutered?
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:06:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
If he had bitten my son i would have shot him then and there,but i think i will give him another chance.



Yeah, you can always shoot it after it gives your son scars.

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:08:59 AM EDT
The dogs do all of these things already,they are trained to do what i tell them. I dont have a crate but they go into the kennel when told to do so. The dog is nearly 5 years old and he has been neutered.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:12:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz: How much obedience training does the dog have? Is he crate trained?

What does crate trained mean? I have never heard that before. The dogs both do as they are told and i have never had any problems with them before,they have been good, well behaved dogs. My son is 18 months.



Crate trained means he will go into a crate on command. A crate is typically a hard plastic box made to hold dogs. www.floridadogacademy.net/images/vari_kennels.jpg

Crate training a dog helps with social dominance issues. A dog that is crate trained tends to be more laid back and more submissive to others dominance. I would recommend immediately to start crate training your dogs.

Next, putting a dog through a series of obedience exercises exerts your authority over them and instills the notion that they are subservent to you. I would recommend working withyour dog on come, sit, stay, heel and down and get it to where you can snap out these commands and he'll quickly comply. Give affection for reward, not food.

How old is your dog? Is he neutered?



My dog started out crate trained. Works great. Dogs are so much more behaved when they start out this way.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:13:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I have an 18 month old son and two dogs,i have had these dogs for 5 years. Tonight one of the dogs growled and snapped at my son. I dont know what to do. he has never done this before, i smacked him in the head when he did it. I dont know what to do, He has never been aggresive before, i dont know what the deal is. This really sucks.


Get him trained, I had a similar problem with mine and braught ina behavior specialist that dealt with aggressive dogs. He just needs to learn his place. Kids also need to be trained on how to act, what to do and what not to do around the dogs. Mine used to lay there and hug the dog and put his face in the dogs face until he got bit. We were told that staring a dog in the eyes like that is considered by the dog as a challenge. Anyway we had them both trained (kid and dog) and no problems since.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:14:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn

I would necessarily advocate smacking your dog if he shows any signs of aggression. Hitting him doesn't send the message you need to send. The message you need to send is YOU are subservant to me and my family. If he shows any signs of dominance or agression grab him by the throat throw him on his back and choke him down and pin him down by his neck. Point your finger at him and stare into his eyes and make him fear you. Once he submits to your superiority then allow him to lay at your feet.



pattymcn knows of which she speaks.

You don't "whack" your dog, it does nothing.

Pin them down by the neck, I usually put my weight on them and throw in a nice deep
growl for good measure.

I've done this countless times over the years with my sled dogs and it usually takes one time
for the dog to get the message.

GM

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:15:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
The dogs do all of these things already,they are trained to do what i tell them. I dont have a crate but they go into the kennel when told to do so. The dog is nearly 5 years old and he has been neutered.



That's good they do these things. I recommend making them do them directly at least once a day. Again its more of a ploy to get them to be submissive to you. You need to retrain your dog's brain that he's not as high up on the pecking order as he thinks he is.

If you ever watch dogs in packs you'll see that they'll all be laying around seemingly quiet and peaceful and all of the sudden the Alpha Bitch will pounce on one of them, pin them to the ground and chew its ass something fierce. Why? No one really knows if there was some undetected communications or not but I suspect she felt it was just time to teach JR a lesson.

So my recommendation is daily with out warning make your dog go through a series of submissive commands. Make him obey perfectly and do not give him any rewards [ie treats] until you're completely done and then just give him praise. Good boy, ruffle the ears is more then enough. He needs to submit to your commands because he loves you, not because you give him hot dogs.

Patty
PS at 5 years of age I would watch him closely and get rid if him if he has any other signs of aggression towards your son. You said the dog came after the baby so who knows if the dog was raised with babies. Who knows what the dog was preprogramed but its not worth the risk.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:18:28 AM EDT
This all reminds me of my old neighbors,they had a dog that they had no control of. They would chase him around the yard and he would taunt them by waiting until they got right up to him and then he would take off. One night i stepped out to have a smoke and the dog jumped up on me so gave him a hard shove into the ground,from then on when they would be chasing the dog around i would tell it to lay down and it would run back to their steps and sit there.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:21:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
The dogs do all of these things already,they are trained to do what i tell them. I dont have a crate but they go into the kennel when told to do so. The dog is nearly 5 years old and he has been neutered.



That's good they do these things. I recommend making them do them directly at least once a day. Again its more of a ploy to get them to be submissive to you. You need to retrain your dog's brain that he's not as high up on the pecking order as he thinks he is.

If you ever watch dogs in packs you'll see that they'll all be laying around seemingly quiet and peaceful and all of the sudden the Alpha Bitch will pounce on one of them, pin them to the ground and chew its ass something fierce. Why? No one really knows if there was some undetected communications or not but I suspect she felt it was just time to teach JR a lesson.

So my recommendation is daily with out warning make your dog go through a series of submissive commands. Make him obey perfectly and do not give him any rewards [ie treats] until you're completely done and then just give him praise. Good boy, ruffle the ears is more then enough. He needs to submit to your commands because he loves you, not because you give him hot dogs.

Patty
PS at 5 years of age I would watch him closely and get rid if him if he has any other signs of aggression towards your son. You said the dog came after the baby so who knows if the dog was raised with babies. Who knows what the dog was preprogramed but its not worth the risk.



No,the dogs were here before the baby. Thanks for your help.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:29:25 AM EDT
I'm sorry I thought I read that the baby was first. That helps to know that the dog has been around the baby from the get go.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:45:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MOGWAR:
You could get a dog like mine.
i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/MOGWAR/DSCN2488.jpg



I'm with you!



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