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Posted: 3/15/2006 11:57:23 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 12:00:28 PM EDT by IAMLEGEND]
I have referred to the video "Deadly Weapons: Firearms and Firepower" a lot when various discussions have come up here on ARFCOM.
Here's a video clip (from that movie) of Alex Jason getting shot by a 308 from an FN FAL at point blank range while wearing a rifle rated vest. He gets shot twice, once while balancing on one leg.

I posted this in the ammo forum but I thought others here in GD might like it.

I think Deadly Weapons: Firearms and Firepower is a great video and recommend it. It dispels a lot of Hollywood nonsense about firearms.


linkeroo

ETA: I almost forgot the main point. The energy of the bullet won’t knock you down, off your feet, blow you through a plate glass window etc. Your reaction to it might.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 11:59:04 AM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 11:59:31 AM EDT
tag for when i'm not remote desktoping from the library
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:05:47 PM EDT
I'm not sure I would volunteer to be on the receiving end, even with the vest.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:06:52 PM EDT
That is a great video. I like it when he show how worthless full auto is on targets at the slightest distance. The part where the 50BMG tumbles through the brush was pretty cool too.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:09:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoHarmNoFAL-01:
That is a great video. I like it when he show how worthless full auto is on targets at the slightest distance. The part where the 50BMG tumbles through the brush was pretty cool too.



+1

I could hardly believe the 50 BMG tumbled.

And the handgun rounds that wouldn't make it through a car door? DAMN!


The gun so powerful it can crack an engine block! Not...
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:18:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
I'm not sure I would volunteer to be on the receiving end, even with the vest.



Nope. Products fail.... shit happens.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:29:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 12:31:16 PM EDT by realist]

Yikes.. his second shot to the vest standing on one leg looked like he almost missed hitting towards the edge of the vest ... no thank you.... Interesting how hollywood blows people off their feet when hit...
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:31:43 PM EDT
tg
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:34:16 PM EDT
tag for home
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:34:45 PM EDT
cool
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:40:11 PM EDT
tag for later
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:46:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
I'm not sure I would volunteer to be on the receiving end, even with the vest.



Nope. Products fail.... shit happens.

+1
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:49:27 PM EDT
Darwin candidates if I ever saw one
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:49:29 PM EDT
i saw this back in the early 90's... good vid..
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:52:01 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:53:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 52brandon:

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By cheaptrickfan:
I'm not sure I would volunteer to be on the receiving end, even with the vest.



Nope. Products fail.... shit happens.

+1



Sorry, pointing and firing a gun at a human being to sell a product....don't think so.

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 12:57:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By realist:
Yikes.. his second shot to the vest standing on one leg looked like he almost missed hitting towards the edge of the vest ... no thank you.... Interesting how hollywood blows people off their feet when hit...



I saw that, thats a pretty fucking stupid thing to do.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:01:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 1:11:28 PM EDT by cruze5]


I don't think i could volunteer for that
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:01:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:04:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SirDrinksAlot:

Originally Posted By realist:
Yikes.. his second shot to the vest standing on one leg looked like he almost missed hitting towards the edge of the vest ... no thank you.... Interesting how hollywood blows people off their feet when hit...



I saw that, thats a pretty fucking stupid thing to do.



But you have to admit that's effective marketing. And that's how bowling pin shooting was created. Richard Davis (2nd Chance founder) would shoot himself with a .44 mag, then turn and shoot pins off a table, to show that the rounds were "real", and that he could react and move after being shot.

Stupid or not, if you are a potential buyer, and you see the owner of the company shooting himself / getting shot with his own products, that's effective marketing.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:10:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
Darwin candidates if I ever saw one



his company, what is the point of buying a soft armor vest if the owner/ pres. of the company doesn't believe they would save his own life?

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:19:47 PM EDT
I love it
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:24:20 PM EDT
nice shorts.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:30:10 PM EDT




Bigfeet
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:31:25 PM EDT

Richard Davis (2nd Chance founder) would shoot himself with a .44 mag, then turn and shoot pins off a table, to show that the rounds were "real", and that he could react and move after being shot.


Saw that on the History Channel just a few weeks ago.
That pretty much sold the idea to PD's that vests are a good thing for cops.

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:39:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By danonly:

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
Darwin candidates if I ever saw one



his company, what is the point of buying a soft armor vest if the owner/ pres. of the company doesn't believe they would save his own life?




No flame to you, brother danonly, but his company is in bankruptcy due to failures of his product. Just my .02, nothing more...
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:53:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:54:20 PM EDT
eh.....BS
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:18:33 PM EDT
Better him than me.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:31:22 PM EDT
I used to own that video. I also had one where these guys were showing how easy it was to make a full auto from a Garand, and I think either a Mini14 or an M1 carbine using string. They also showed a lightning link in use. It was not an instructional video but a video to show how ridiculous the 1968 GCA was.That was a cool video too.

I loaned both out and never got them back.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:37:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
Darwin candidates if I ever saw one



Yeah, that one round is only a few inches on the plate.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:48:21 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:49:11 PM EDT
That is so incredibly stupid on so many levels.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:01:12 PM EDT
I find it very interesting that so many of you comment about the foolishness of allowing the guy to get shot. You are all correct, of course.

But what I found interesting, many years ago when I first saw this video, is what it demonstrates.

It is a true "Box O' Truth" demonstration. Many people, even on this board, will argue until they are blue in the face that a .308 will "blow you off your feet". This guy shows that this is totally false.

You gotta admit, he was an early Mythbuster.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:11:41 PM EDT
Rats. I wish I'd seen this before I got my FAL. Wonder what it'll bring in trade for a .458 Win Mag?

Nah. there's no milsurp for that.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:13:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pale_pony:

Originally Posted By danonly:

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
Darwin candidates if I ever saw one



his company, what is the point of buying a soft armor vest if the owner/ pres. of the company doesn't believe they would save his own life?




No flame to you, brother danonly, but his company is in bankruptcy due to failures of his product. Just my .02, nothing more...



The problem was that they started using a new, unproven material (along with almost all other armor companies) and tried to cover it up when the vests started failing. All armor companies were affected in some way by the Zylon fiasco.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:14:19 PM EDT
The video is just over 20 years old now, and it's been more than 15 years since I've seen it, but I think that it has footage of the first time Richard Davisd shot himself while wearing one of his vests, he silenced the naysayers who said soft body armor wont work, the impact will stop your heart, the blunt force will incapacitate you, etc.

Second Chance was a great company for 20+ years


The first Second Chance® "save" was Detroit undercover street cop, Gary Boiger, who wasn’t shot, but stabbed in his Model "X" armor.

The first shooting "save" was Detroit officer Ron Jagielski, when in 1973 his Model "Y" stopped a .38 slug.

Save 700

Trooper Angela Watson who stopped very early one morning in Ohio to check on a man walking along a highway. As she approached, he pulled a .44 magnum handgun from his waistband and fired. She was hit in the lower left front panel of her newly-issued Second Chance Monarch II vest, but drew her weapon and returned fire, striking her assailant. Other than bruises, she suffered no additional injuries.

The save counter is currently at 980



The there was Zylon


Officer Tony Zeppetella



The makers of body armor who are being sued by the widow of a slain Oceanside police officer will be able to view the vest worn by the officer when he was killed, a Vista Superior Court judge ruled Thursday.

Attorneys for Second Chance Body Armor, which made the Ultima II body armor worn by Officer Tony Zeppetella, and Toyobo Co., which manufactured the Zylon fiber inside the vest, said they want to see the position of a bullet hole and the condition of the material.

The 27-year-old officer was shot 13 times during a shootout with an ex-convict in Oceanside on June 13, 2003.

One of the bullets penetrated the body armor and caused a fatal wound, according to testimony in the criminal trial of Adrian Camacho, who was convicted of first-degree murder and, last month, sentenced to death.

A trial in the civil suit, in which Jamie Zeppetella alleges the companies knew that Zylon was ineffective, is scheduled for Aug. 4.

With the criminal trial over, the firms wanted a chance to examine the vest and the fiber inside.

Judge Joan Weber granted their motions, allowing them to view the vest and a mannequin that displays the entry and exit points of Zeppetella's wounds, on March 8. The session will not be open to the public or media.

The attorneys will be allowed to slit open the side of the vest and pull out a panel of material. The vest needs to remain somewhat intact while Camacho pursues his criminal appeals.

"At this point, we're just looking to see if (the bullet) passed through the fiber" instead of surrounding material, said John Griffin, a lawyer in Orange who represents Second Chance Body Armor.

Attorney Greg Emerson, who represents Jamie Zeppetella, said there's a hole in the officer's shirt, a hole in the vest with "an inch-and-a-half blob of Zylon sticking out" and an opening in his chest that all line up.

"It couldn't be any clearer that there's a hole in the vest that caused the fatal injury to Tony," Emerson said.

Second Chance, which was bought by Armor Holdings Inc. last year, and Toyobo, which is based in Japan, appear to be blaming each other for the vest's failure, Emerson said.

It was known by 2003 that Zylon deteriorated rapidly when exposed to light, heat and humidity, but Second Chance continued to sell vests that contained the fiber, the lawyer said.

Jamie Zeppetella wants to hold those responsible for her husband's death accountable and will press forward with the lawsuit, he said.

She settled with a distributor of the vest for $165,000 but declined to sue the Oceanside Police Department or the city of Oceanside, Emerson said.



In August of 2005 Armor Holdings, Inc aquired substantially all of the domestic assets of Second Chance Body Armor, Inc., including intellectual property but excluding any Zylon releted assets and all claims, for $45 million.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:18:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
I find it very interesting that so many of you comment about the foolishness of allowing the guy to get shot. You are all correct, of course.

But what I found interesting, many years ago when I first saw this video, is what it demonstrates.

It is a true "Box O' Truth" demonstration. Many people, even on this board, will argue until they are blue in the face that a .308 will "blow you off your feet". This guy shows that this is totally false.

You gotta admit, he was an early Mythbuster.



What?

You mean .308 doesn't have any "knock down" power???

What a wimpy "poodle-shooter" the .308 turned out to be after all.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:55:13 PM EDT
Waste of time and effort. If you believe Newton, then you know the answer as soon as you fire the .308. Are you still standing?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:59:45 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:02:18 PM EDT
wow
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:14:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rjroberts:
Waste of time and effort. If you believe Newton, then you know the answer as soon as you fire the .308. Are you still standing?



Many on this board will argue with Mr. Newton.

They're a lot smarter than he was. At least they believe so.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:18:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rjroberts:
Waste of time and effort. If you believe Newton, then you know the answer as soon as you fire the .308. Are you still standing?



Not everyone reasons things out so well.

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:24:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:


Many on this board will argue with Mr. Newton.

They're a lot smarter than he was. At least they believe so.

No kidding!
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:24:36 PM EDT
Great post. I'm gonna have to try and track down this video.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:28:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 4:29:39 PM EDT by C-4]

Originally Posted By danonly:

Originally Posted By pale_pony:
Darwin candidates if I ever saw one



his company, what is the point of buying a soft armor vest if the owner/ pres. of the company doesn't believe they would save his own life?




+1000

We climb into our cars every day and the risk of death is far greater.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:44:39 PM EDT
I would have kicked his ass for hitting that close to the edge of the vest BOTH times!!!
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:51:22 PM EDT
Tag
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:58:02 PM EDT
WTF? How dumb can you be?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 6:01:17 PM EDT
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