User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 6:55:26 AM EDT
[#1]
Drums? Try more like storage tanks. But even these stores are tiny compared to the pipeline inventory, that being the quantity of fuel necessary to fill the pipeline. The person you buy from is himself buying from the pipeline terminal operator who is buying it from the pipeline itself which is filled from the refineries. Prices MUST reflect the TOTAL supply sutuation, otherwise there would be shortages (MUCH worse than paying an extra $.50 a gallon) or a glut at the refinery, forcing a shutdown. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 6:59:06 AM EDT
[#2]
$2.47 in Lansing MI
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:01:22 AM EDT
[#3]
You have any idea how hard it is to build new refineries? There are federal, state and local policies to deal with. Then you have local citizens groups, environmental do-gooders and the ESA which the envirowackos use as a trump card. Find an endangered species, and shut the project down. The GOVERNMENT caused this problem, not the industry. It is far cheaper, minus the legal costs, to build a new refinery than to de-bottleneck existing refineries. But unfortunately, only the latter can be done because of red tape from top to bottom. The loss of capacity is only furthering the shortages. Until the prices rise to the point the sandy manginas will allow new construction, fuel is a bargin. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:08:58 AM EDT
[#4]
Oddly enough, it's just as hard to build a new power plant but it happens every day. If oil companies really wanted to build refineries, they would be pouring concrete. They could also add capacity to their existing refineries, I have a refinery right up the road doing this very thing. Why don't they all do it? They just don't want to spend the money. Why would they? They are making record profits with the system working the way it is. Too bad the American consumer & economy are the ones that suffer. This BS excuse does not hold water. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:12:23 AM EDT
[#5]
$2.49/gal for the cheap stuff at my local station.
I got it on the way home last night for $2.42/gal at Costco. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:13:49 AM EDT
[#6]
Just broke $2.30 two days ago, and it's steadily climbing. WTF we get nailed by another hurricane?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:22:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Bull. Refineries are a LOT harder to permit and build than a power plant. First of all, they catch fire with much greater regulatity than power plants. Second, they process a lot more fuel per day than a power plant consumes. Third, they boil, vaporize and react hydrocarbons with chemicals like sulfuric acid, hydrofluoric acid, HYDROGEN, carbon monoxide, and a slew of of other nasties.
True, the same regulations face new power plant construction BUT when you have crude entering a plant with refined fuels, lubricants and other products exiting the plant, you have a greater than double hazard. The power plants are only consumers of fuel, be it #2 distillate, natural gas or coal. Their product leaves the plant in spill-proof, leak proof power lines. When a power line breaks, it doesn't contaminate the surrounding land. BIG difference. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:33:26 AM EDT
[#8]
WHAT?!?!?!?!?! WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?! Maybe localized "booster" powerplants that use NATURAL GAS turbines, but a SERIOUS powerplant does not go up "every day". I work with a large construction firm (~2 Billion in yearly gross) and we do fast (but good) work. An 8000 seat church takes 2 years to build. Powerplants and refineries are some of the most complex things in the world to build because of all the safety issues invovled. Redundant systems, emergency equipment. THEN you have to deal with all the legal bullshit. The EPA, local "women's groups" Trial lawyers out for a buck with "cancer" lawsuits. They would be "pouring concrete" please..... just on a simple thing the price of concrete has nearly TRIPLED in the last few years. A load that cost $69 now cost over $200. Steel prices have doubled. My father worked in the oil industry for a decade until 1981. BACK THEN environmental rules were killing oil companies and that is what killed Getty Oil. For almost 30 years the oil companies have had to bow to EVERY rule that some whacko thinks up to "protect" some sort of animal. These whackos are ANTI-PROGRESS and USE environmental issues to FUCK with the economy. this is a quote from an arizona paper: "Arizona Republicans voted for and Democrats against a federal measure that could help increase oil refinery capacity in the United States. " THAT WAS TWO YEARS AGO You are talking out your ass about construction and oil refineries. Learn who the problem is. (hint: it is the government and lawyers and leftists) ETA: it is Gas-fired plants all over the US going up. Here is a PDF about gas-fired capacity here But the cliffs notes is an increase from 50 GW of production in 1999 to 381 GW in 2004. And you wonder why Natural gas prices have skyrocketed...... Basically they are building HUNDREDS of little powerplants with jet engines all over the country to take the burden from the big plants. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:33:37 AM EDT
[#9]
you can try to rationalize the rise in gas prices with corporate bullshit, these record profits are nothing but flat out gouging and profiteering during a war.  |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:34:05 AM EDT
[#10]
They follow the prices the wholesalers follow, and the wholesalers follow the prices on the NY and Chicago commodity exchanges. My uncles runs a gas station plus a fuel delivery business for local farmers. He has a PC in his house connected to a satellite which downloads all the wholesaler prices for a 5-state area around his station so he can buy the cheapest gas. Those prices fluctuate every minute, even on Christmas Day! I think four major things are going on. First, some refineries are offline to get maintenance done before summer season. This is a good thing. Second, demand for gas in the US continues to be high. Just check out how much people drive every day and how they drive (jackrabbit starts, speeding, etc.). This makes sense...the economy is cooking, GDP and employment are up. People are richer today than they were last year or 5 years ago. Third, I don't think we have recovered all our refining capacity from Katrina. I bet we are still off 10-15 percent in those Gulf refineries. Last, we were getting less gas imports from overseas. We got a lot of arbitraged gas from Europe imported into the US last Sept.-Dec. If prices go up enough here this summer we will get more arbitraged gas from foreign sources. Again, folks, don't get stuck on stupid: gas prices are determined by commodities exchanges where hundreds of thousands of buyers and sellers and millions of trades happen each day. Same as wheat, corn, pork bellies, and frozen orange juice concentrate. Meanwhile gasbuddy.com is your friend. Where I live I can get gas for $2.26. If I could drive to another part more rural of Maryland gas today might be as cheap as $2.12. In high-tax, high-cost Montgomery County 10 miles away from me gas is up to $2.70. GunLvr |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:36:47 AM EDT
[#11]
No, it isn't. It is relatively easy to build a new gas-turbine power plant (but when they needed to build one up here there were 6 years worth of lawsuits before construction started). But are coal-fired or nuke plants built every day? No way. GunLvr |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:39:09 AM EDT
[#12]
If you really believe that you should buy some oil stocks and join the party. Publically traded companies are owned by stockholders, who decide what to do with the profits (aka dividends). GunLvr |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:39:16 AM EDT
[#13]
|
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:41:22 AM EDT
[#14]
I think this statement proves my point. Power plants get built everyday. Why? Because utilities and private power producers cannot just raise prices when they have shortages. The only way they make money is by producing the required demand more efficiently. The exact opposite is true for the oil business. If they have any kind of a hick-up they automatically & dramatically raise prices. Based on their record profits for the past few years, these "Shortages" are only helping their bottom line. Why would a oil company want to go through the expensive process of building new refineries when the system as it stands today actually rewards them for even the slightest hick-up (Real or imagined)? I have worked at fossil fuel plants that have an on site storage capacity of ten million gallons of bunker C. A fleet of oil barrages coming through a state park and nature preserve constantly maintains this supply. You cannot even try to imply the EPA regulations on this plant were any “Easier” than at a refinery. This plant is currently in the process of adding on a thousand megawatts and more storage tanks. If they can do it to meet the demand, why can’t the oil companies themselves? I will answer my own question… Because it will not reward them in the short term. Spending money only hurts their bottom line and the system rewards them for any “Shortage” anyway. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:42:51 AM EDT
[#15]
You people bitching about "record profits" are full of shit. The average profit of oil companies (precentage) compared to most other industries is LOWER.
 Some of you are so goddamned ignorant of economics it is pitiful. And here is some perspective for you - want to bitch about other industries? www.kpcnews.net/special-sections/reflections1/reflections11.html |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:51:40 AM EDT
[#16]
I think you just proved my point. Yes, it takes years to build a new plant. It's an expensive process with lots of time spent in courtrooms, but guess what? They get built everyday. Nuclear plants have not been built for years, but over twenty are going through the process now. Coal plants are built everyday. My company has already gotten a new one permitted just a few months ago. So, if power plants (Which face the same legal & environmental obstacles as refineries) can and are being built. Why can't the oil companies build refineries? I think I have answered that question enough in my prior posts. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:53:28 AM EDT
[#17]
Sounds like retooling time for summer gas. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:53:50 AM EDT
[#18]
Gosh, they were heating Crude oil to 400 degrees F and piping all the results to different locations??? ALL while shipping the fuel through a park....??? One thing is COMPLETELY different from the other. Refineries are EXTRAORDINARILY dangerous places where super-volatile fluids and gases get pumped through hundreds of miles of pipe to get stored for shipment. So the plant that you worked at that was ALREADY BUILT (probably many years before) is adding some burners and turbines and fuel tanks to a site that the EPA already considered trashed. So yes, we don't even have to imply that the regulations were easier for that plant, because they are due to grandfathering clauses. That is why the oil companies are still running plants that were built DECADES ago and try in increase cpacity there, because they don't have to follow ALL the guidelines for NEW plants. It is like the AWB and high cap mags made before 1994. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 7:57:27 AM EDT
[#19]
Amen Brother!!! and looking at that chart....I AM PRETTY PISSED AT "BIG FOOD" those greedy bastards. We should not have to pay a dime over what it costs to produce food...and beer. damn it I want my profitless beer NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And don't get me started on my BANK wanting to MAKE money.... I mean...damn they have tons of it in their vaults at all times, why do THEY need to make a PROFIT. FUCKING CAPITALISTS. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:03:22 AM EDT
[#20]
Oil refineries require much more environmental preparation than a power plant, period. The product a refinery makes can explode, burn spill and contaminate the environment. Not so with a power plant. The overall margin for a refinery is MUCH smaller than a power plant's. Yes, they are making record profits NOW but just 8 years ago, every damn one of them was LOSING money every day for YEARS. When you average the profits, including even in this record time of profits, over 20+ years, you will find the profits are not obscene. You cannot have it both ways. Either you buck up and pay higher prices when the supply is fat, like in 1997-2000, or you enjoy those obscenely low prices for fuel with the realization they WILL go up. Back in 1998, crude was going for $11 a barrel while gas was $0.73 a gallon. Using that ratio, we should be paying $4.31 a gallon based on crude being $65 a gallon. You are getting a BARGIN right now yet you are bitching? Wash the sand out of your mangina. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:06:52 AM EDT
[#21]
 (1.)#1 U.S. Oil company: Profit at Exxon Mobil jumped 44 percent to $7.86 billion (2.) #2 U.S. Oil company: ChevronTexaco company reported net income of $1.74 billion, or $1.63 per share, up 92 percent compared with net income of $904 million, or 85 cents, in the year-earlier period. (3.)#3 U.S. Oil company: ConocoPhillips, the third-largest U.S. oil company, yesterday said its profit jumped 80 percent to a record $2.91 billion. (4.) Europe's second-largest oil company: Shell's net income including inventory gains rose 42 percent to $6.67 billion. Today's report was Shell's first under International Financial Reporting Standards accounting. It's kind of hard to argue that they are not making "Record Profits", at least with a straight face.  |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:08:08 AM EDT
[#22]
I think a HONDA PRIUS might be better choice...just like the fool on the Sean Hannity Show. BTW, Toyota makes the Prius and Geo (GM) made the Metro. I think the fuel price hysteria has clouded your view of the market. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:13:22 AM EDT
[#23]
Wait.... their profits have not increased to 44% of their GROSS. it is a 44% increase of 8 or 9 PERCENT of their gross. That is like getting a pay raise of 5% and then havinhg your boss increase your pay raise by 44%. NOT YOUR PAY. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:14:39 AM EDT
[#24]
2.399 three days ago
2.499 today! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:18:08 AM EDT
[#25]
This statement only proves you have zero idea what your talking about. The last fossil fuel plant that I worked had onsite storage of over ten million gallons of extremely low-grade bunker C. This amount of storage had to be resupplied every three days at a minimum. The re-supply barrages came through a state park and nature preserve. You don't think it has the ability to: explode, burn, spill or contaminate the environment? Yet, they are in the process of adding both storage capacity and megawatts.
I would love for you prove this statement.
I will take this personal attack as your "White Flag" of surrender. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:19:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Are you driving less? If not, why? |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:19:55 AM EDT
[#27]
Thats complete BS and I hope your smart enough to know that. Some of your guys take defending these profits way over the top. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:31:33 AM EDT
[#28]
Oil companies have zero pricing power. As explained above. Electrical utilities have all the pricing power in the world. They are monopolies. You obviously failed Econ 101. GunLvr |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:37:36 AM EDT
[#29]
I am, and I can't walk to work either. fun driving was cancelled 6 months ago. I can't cut My driving anymore than it is now and they are still rifling my pockets for $.30 in a day per gallon or more in hikes .....again same thing with Diamonds, there is no true shortage, only manipulation of the prices and holding of oil releases for consuption. Greed and profiteering. pure and simple. We sure as shit aren't only held hostage by the arabs, that's for sure. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:39:56 AM EDT
[#30]
No one here remembers the late 1990s. This is when the last major mergers were the ONLY option to keep the majors ALIVE. Hell, there were MASSIVE layoffs. I kept my job only because I took a management postion without a raise, effectively taking over the position of my boss who was let go. I was glad I had a job even though one of my first responsibilityies was a 25% reduction in force of my business group, a cost center. Yuck. All because you childish ingrates were buying gasoline at $0.72 a gallon. I had many friends that left the industry after that downswing who only recently returned. Defending the profits? Hell yes, I want these corporations to SURVIVE the next downturn. But you sandy manginas don;t care until you drive up to the pump and have to pay now for the discounts of yesterday. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:41:40 AM EDT
[#31]
I know you’re more than a little arrogant and used to bullying your way through most discussions, but you’re out of your league on this one. Electrical utilities cannot just raise their rates whenever they choose. The vast majority are regulated utilities or provide power under existing contracts with utilities. They have to go through a long process through the PSC to raise their rates. That’s a process that can take many months or even years. When a few of the top oil companies collectively raise their prices, that’s the true monopoly. Stay in your end of the pool. You might drown in my end. These statements clearly illustrate that you don't have a damn clue what you’re talking about in this tread. It's either that or your a damn liar. Which is it? You obviously failed Power Production 101. Thank God, I passed it. |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:44:30 AM EDT
[#32]
Just WHERE are they "holding" this oil? In your ass? Bull. We have but a 30 day supply of petroleum, after that, all tanks, pipelines and refineries are bone dry. It isn't ANYTHING like diamonds. Serious mistake there. It isn't greed, its SURVIVAL. And assuring the people who NEED fuel and can PAY will GET the FUEL they NEED. It would suck if your house caught fire and the fire department couuldn't get there because the pumps are dry all because you wanted cheap gas. But until you experience that, you will continue to whine. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:47:21 AM EDT
[#33]
sounds like the only reason you are so behind these rises is your job and those profits you'll get a part of. No wonder you are so vehemently behind this profiteering by big oil. 
|
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:49:41 AM EDT
[#34]
by cutting what they pull from the ground. holding production down keeps the prices high, just like diamonds. I'll bow out now, it seems you have one main reason for backing this profiteering bullshit. your job.
|
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:50:04 AM EDT
[#35]
You obiviously don't read your bills. Energy prices for electricity and natural gas HAVE gone up just like transportation energy. Natural gas even moreso. Electricity is fairly immune from a direct linkage to petroleum because most oil fired systems can also use natural gas and even these are but a small fraction oof baseload. The baseload is diversified among coal, nuclear and hydroelectric which are distinct from petroleum. Natural gas tracks oil due to the interchangeability of the two in baseload generation. And NG is the choice for peak load generation, making electricity far more expensive per kW*H than in the late 1990s, even normalizing fuel costs. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 8:55:05 AM EDT
[#36]
No, it isn't my job. It is the rise of the independents who are better suited to react to the market than the majors. When prices are depressed, as they were in the late 1990s, the independents were purchased by the majors, killing new developments and making us vulnerable to the situation we have today! The situation WILL change when the developing economies in Asia cannot withstand the increased prices as well as the developed economies AND our domestic independent production rises. Want cheap gas? Move to Iraq. |
|||||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 9:05:20 AM EDT
[#37]
Damn dude, give it a rest you sound like a P.R. guy for Exxon for Gods sake. I am sorry you had some tuff times at work in the 90's. If you think the oil industry has it bad for a short time then you never worked the aerospace industry. I made more money 5 years ago then I do today I work more hours and have less benifits. This oil BS is effecting everyone except the very rich. Some of these execs of these corps and other industries are making 100's of millions of dollars year or more while there employess are getting little to no increase in pay while working more with less benifits. It's called greed and it is destroying our Country. Many CEO's would screw there mother over to save a buck. The reason the average Joe is so upset is that everything has gone up in price, but most of our pay has stayed the same or even has been reduced. Most people I know including me have side jobs just to help make the bills. I hope you are getting paid a shit load because you are going to need it when gas is $5+ at the pump. |
||||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 9:18:08 AM EDT
[#38]
This is fucking hilarious....
All this bitching and guess what? Not a damn thing we talk about is going to affect you at the pump. ETA: Oooops, except who you vote into congress and your state .gov, because a THIRD of the cost of a gallon of gas is TAXES. That would put gas back below 2 bucks a gallon.... I think we already pay enough taxes. EETA: Oh yeah, and don't forget who wanted to drill for oil in the Gulf and in Alaska....OIL COMPANIES. Who stopped them..... POLITICIANS |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 9:18:46 AM EDT
[#39]
Back in 2000, domestic production was 2.8 billion barrels per annum. Currently, all domestic production totals from the past year were 2.93 billion barrels. Oil is a commodity traded on the WORLD market and with Asia consuming far more today than in 2000, we have a shortage. Every damn well that can pump IS pumping. And wells than cannot pump are being reworked at alarming rates to the effect owners cannot find service crews, materials or equipment. Every workover rig is booked SOLID for the next 18 months. Gee, you might want to check FACTS before pulling something out of your ass. We all know they are NOT "hording" oil in there, despite its size. |
|||||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 9:29:06 AM EDT
[#40]
I am NOT in PR, engineering. And no, I do not work for any E&P corporation. In the past quarter, I have purchased less than 23 gallons of gas and less than 30 gallons of diesel. In fact, I increased my average fuel economy to a bit over 57 miles per gallon. So no, I am not getting paid a "shitload" and I need not worry until gas/diesel is over $10 a gallon. Back in the late 1990s, I saw the writing on the wall and carefully planned my vehicle purchase and use. But the rest of you saw the cheap prices of fuel and bought what you thought you needed, basing your future on the current costs of energy. Starting to sound like an Aesop fable, isn't it? Now its winter and the grasshoppers are starving. You should have purchased the cheap energy stocks when the taking was good. They are returning well today. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 9:29:25 AM EDT
[#41]
Why are you bothering to explain my job to me? You also don't seem to have it right in the first place. Electricity prices may have risen over the years, but only slightly. Actually the company I work has had to lower its base rates. We have had to raise the fuels portion of our rates; these additional costs are passed right on to consumers. Yes the price consumers are paying for electricity has gone up, but the "Base Rate" that a utility sees as profit might be the same. How this can be compared to gas prices rising 150% in a few years is beyond me.
This statement is more than a little incorrect. First off natural gas rates per deco-therm of gas normally trend in the same direction as oil. It's not a direct correlation, but to make it simple when oil goes up natural gas usually follows. Most plants also do not get to automatically decide on their fuel IF they are duel fuel capable. Some can, but it's not the norm. At any rate fuel costs are normally 90% of a fossil fuel plants yearly OM budget so any spike in prices hurts them immediately. I don't know where you got your info on base loaded plants. The amount that are base loaded and what fuel they use is a very utility & regional thing. For example the company I work has about an even 50/50 split between Nuc/Oil for base load. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 9:50:08 AM EDT
[#42]
So, where is all this oil they are hoarding? Production is UP all around. The result of running refineries at capacity for 6 months is taking its toll and then couple in the summer blend changeovers and we have a supply problem. With the spring breakers consuming more, prices HAD to rise. I would hope you complainers will at sometime have to stand in lines miles long to purchase 8 gallons. But alas, the current market system PREVENTS these situations we once endured back in the 1970s. |
||||||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 10:04:20 AM EDT
[#43]
You’re still avoiding the obvious. Yes, the refineries in place now are at full capacity. That does not excuse the oil industry for its refusal to build more plants or add capacity to the existing plants. This could very well make America more susceptible to a terrorist attack on our oil infrastructure and should be a national security issue. It seems like nothing more than a way to: (A.) Avoid spending the money - Hurts the short term bottom line (B.) Keeps prices artificially high and even allows for huge “Short Term” prices increases for even the slightest hick-ups in production (Real or imagined). |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 10:18:20 AM EDT
[#44]
It takes 5-8 years from first site preparation to first oil for any new refinery. It takes anywhere from 10 to 20 years for permiting just to get to initial site construction. Just as sure as spring follows winter, these shortages will decline and we will be in a glut. It has happened over 5 times in the past 40 years...who would gamble building a new refinery today with that future on ROI? It makes far better economic sense to debottleneck existing refineries. Now if domestic demand keeps current for another 5 years, we could see new construction IF the capital expenditures offered tax incentives. But that isn't possible so we will not see any new refineries by the majors. In fact, the majors have DIVESTED in refinery operations after the late 1990's collapse. Valero, once a gas supplier, completely divested itself in the gas market and became the largest refniner in North America by purchase of refining assets. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 10:33:29 AM EDT
[#45]
Everybody needs a boogeyman.
This thread is like all the others here now. The whiney left on the board is crying cause gas goes up. The conservatives show up with with logic proving for the millionth time what you libs think is BIG OIL is really BIG GOVERNMENT. Some simple suggestions for the reactionary simpletons: 1. Stop driving to Mickey D's every day blowing $6.00 at lunch making yourself fatter (try fasting, the pounds come off quicker and if you can't, make a sandwich for $0.75). 2. In ten workdays you'll have enough to buy one share of EXXON stock (not counting the gas you saved). 3. Repeat I won't bore you with details, but I've done well on EXXON stock |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 10:34:08 AM EDT
[#46]
Shakes head and walks away.
b u l l s h i t. this is supply manipulation, plain and simple. |
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 10:54:59 AM EDT
[#47]
[crickets]Waiting on proof...[/crickets] |
|
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 11:02:25 AM EDT
[#48]
KEITH!!! Gosh... it is PLAIN AND SIMPLE!!! You don't NEED PROOF when it is PLAIN AND SIMPLE. Damn that certainly makes discussions one sided, doesn't it. I wish we could go up to people and tell them that it is PLAIN and SIMPLE that they should give us their money. When they ask why, just tell them again, it is PLAIN and SIMPLE. |
||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 11:03:02 AM EDT
[#49]
Those numbers are outrageously high. No way in hell would it take 10-20 years for permitting or 5-8 years to build a plant. In my experience with power plants (That are VERY similar in regards to permitting/environmental impact studies/construction/start-up) is three years should be considered a high end for permitting. Construction would be the same or less. These should be considered high-end estimates. I have seen power plants that small segments of a community did not want get built substantially faster. We have been talking about this for two years now at least. If the oil industry really wanted to help America they might be pouring concrete by now.
Who in God's earth is going to believe the demand is going to drop in our life time? Nation & world wide demand is steadly increasing. This is not a gamble, even if the oil industry would like us to think so.
Why in the hell would the taxpayers of America have to give tax incentives to oil companies to build refineries? Record profits aren’t enough? So, the oil industry holds us hostage to their back room BS and we have to pay for them to build? This is nothing but corporate welfare for a booming industry and the millions of dollars they spend in lobbyists. Obviously, they don't want to pay for them. Building refineries would take way their newfound excuse to raise prices every time the wind blows. Selling them off allows each company to claim, "We don't have the refinery capacity" with a straight face. When in reality they have just sold some off and refused to build new ones for add capacity to the existing plants. |
|||
|
|
|
Posted: 3/16/2006 11:19:35 AM EDT
[#50]
Facts. Here we go..the first new construction in 30 years is still in the red tape stage...
And Arizona was chosen because of its location to demands and supplies PLUS it had the lowest red tape. The crude pipeline would be from Mexico, limiting the federal red tape but not eliminating it. Trying to get a new refinery in your area would take as long or longer than I stated. |
|||||
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
