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Posted: 3/14/2006 8:05:38 PM EDT
Looks like one of our favorite guys, Charles Schumer along wth Lindsey Graham are proposing a bill that would impose a 27.5% tariff against China if they keep undervaluing their currency. Good idea ? Why not ? The full articles can be seen at the addresses below.


U.S. senators Lindsey Graham, a Republican from South Carolina, and Charles Schumer, a Democrat from New York, are sponsoring legislation in Congress that would impose tariffs on Chinese goods unless the yuan is allowed to rise more rapidly.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000087&sid=am9JGVPVXfoE




Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., reacting to the surging U.S. trade deficit, has proposed imposing a blanket 27.5% tariff on Chinese imports if Beijing doesn't allow its currency to appreciate.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/world/2006-03-14-protection-cover-usat_x.htm?csp=34

Link Posted: 3/14/2006 8:07:00 PM EDT
If Chuck Schummer is behind it then it's a bad idea.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 8:08:39 PM EDT
I hate Schumer but i all for tariffs on chinese crap
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 8:11:11 PM EDT
Tariffs are a bad idea. Talk about pandering to the unions under the guise of a "solution."
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 8:11:55 PM EDT
Tag.
Seems like a good idea. But if Schumer's behind it you gottta wonder.....
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 8:12:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
I hate Schumer but i all for tariffs on chinese crap



Generally agree but with Schumer involved it is fucked.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 8:14:58 PM EDT
Just thought of something what do you want to bet it is a "Pro Union" piece of legislation anf has no NatSec provisions at all.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:09:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 9:11:45 PM EDT by No-Worries]
Brilliant -

Piss of the Chinese so they dump our T-Bills and Treasuries and bankrupt America in one fell swoop. Get your economic house in order BEFORE you piss off the bank. Knee jerk emotional liberal at the helm.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:20:34 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:57:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
If Chuck Schummer is behind it then it's a bad idea.



+10 zillion googlplexes times a hundred.

Schummer is a total fuckwad and anything he says, thinks, feels, imagines or theorizes is totally, totally bogus. My response to this thread is bogus because it contains a mere reference to Schummer The Dickhead's name.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 11:02:50 PM EDT
I hate Chuck as much as the next guy, but hating tariffs?

Everyone hates paying taxes too, but lemme remind you, tarrifs is what funded this country until WWI.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 1:22:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Remember freedom is good. And that includes the markets.



There are no free markets without a free currency market. And everyone manipulates their currencies (including the US and China), so the idea of free markets is really a myth.

Link Posted: 3/15/2006 3:10:55 AM EDT
China's money is severely undervalued. If its exchange rates floated, its value would have to increase as it piles up massive currency reserves from all their trade with us. But that doesn't happen. They've let it rise a LITTLE bit, but nowhere near what it should. Here's the latest "Big Mac Index" of PPP from The Economist magazine

economist.com/markets/bigmac/displayStory.cfm?story_id=5389856

In comparison to the US dollar, China's the most undervalued currency on this index! The Swiss franc is the most over-valued.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:04:44 AM EDT
Sounds good to me. Being from NY, you find a lot to actually like about the guy. If you call him, you get a response. If you neeed help he rolls up his sleeves, jumps into the trenches along side you, and fights with you. Now if we could just change his politics. Like his predecesor, republican Alphonse DaMato, a quirky kind of guy, but I would actually trust him if he were on my side in a street fight. Now as to the junior senator from NY................
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:11:10 AM EDT
For me personally, I would definitely see what is cooking with this bill, the Republican camp comes up with some pretty hare-brained ideas also. But realistically, based on party lines and what is proposed, it would be pretty tough sell for Chuck to get the bill into law.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:41:54 AM EDT
Just da-da-damn.

Why in the last few years [having been a conservative from day one] do I start believing thar Rush is wrong on this whole "FREE EXCHANGE" NAFTA etc stuff........

And, that Patrick J. Buchanan has his finger on the proper economic method to deal with the world which is mostly against us?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:42:23 AM EDT
Chuck is wrong again.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:48:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DaveS:
Just da-da-damn.

Why in the last few years [having been a conservative from day one] do I start believing thar Rush is wrong on this whole "FREE EXCHANGE" NAFTA etc stuff........

And, that Patrick J. Buchanan has his finger on the proper economic method to deal with the world which is mostly against us?



Buchanan's views are mainly rooted in a 1930's view of the world.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:11:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 5:11:40 AM EDT by PAEBR332]

Originally Posted By raven:

Originally Posted By DaveS:
Just da-da-damn.

Why in the last few years [having been a conservative from day one] do I start believing thar Rush is wrong on this whole "FREE EXCHANGE" NAFTA etc stuff........

And, that Patrick J. Buchanan has his finger on the proper economic method to deal with the world which is mostly against us?



Buchanan's views are mainly rooted in a 1930's 1830's view of the world.



Fixed it.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:17:41 AM EDT
Yes. I would love to see my cost of living increase. That is a wonderful plan.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:31:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:
Tariffs are a bad idea. Talk about pandering to the unions under the guise of a "solution."



And it is about time.

Thank god I hope this passes, maybe my old job will call me back in.

This economy sucks big time.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:32:12 AM EDT
Protectionism will send our economy in a downward spiral. Think prices are high right now, wait until manufactured goods rise by 25%.

I case y'all didn't know, tariffs were part of the reason for the great depresson.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:54:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By slaughter:
And it is about time.

Thank god I hope this passes, maybe my old job will call me back in.

This economy sucks big time.



No, actually, the economy is strong, and unemployment extremely low. Unfortunatly, you have an occupational specialty that is either A) No longer needed, or be B) can be done cheaper elsewhere.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 5:57:32 AM EDT
All you free trade tards listen up:


There is no parity with goods and services we ship to other countries, as they do to us.

Protectionism is rampant in ALL countries save OURS.

Wake up to the fact that unbalanced trade practices are KILLING this country and our ability to produce anything. Saying that proper tariffs are for the unions is utter and complete HORSECRAP.

There is NO PARITY in regards to FREE TRADE.

Countries are DUMPING their goods here and we are locked out of their markets.

Wake up and smell the coffee folks, they will bury us under a mountain of cheap goods until America is a 3rd rate country.

With the complicity of our own elected officials.

Wait and see what this produces when all the jobs are gone in this country.

Wait and see when the manufacturing base has been leveled to the dust.

I hate unions just as bad as anyone, but it isnt about them at all.

FREE TRADE is great and all, BUT ONLY IF IT GOES BOTH WAYS WHICH IT DOESNT.

Dram out
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 6:00:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dramborleg:
All you free trade tards listen up:


There is no parity with goods and services we ship to other countries, as they do to us.

Protectionism is rampant in ALL countries save OURS.

Yeah and how well are they fairing? We have 17 quarters or positive and even robust GDP growth and an unemployment rate under 5% while most of Europe, Canada etc have unemployment around 7-12% because of their socialist/protectionist economies. Our economy is growing because of free trade.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 6:06:29 AM EDT
Tarrifs are really bad economics. You notice Schumer never proposed one while Clinton was President. Know why? Because he doesn't want a trade war or the economy tanking when a Dem is President.

If I were a nasty GOPer who didn't care out our national economy I'd pass a tariff the day before Hitlery took over. She could then deal with the 15 percent unemployment and the huge deficits which would result from a stagnant economy.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 6:07:44 AM EDT
Name one free-market economy that is sucessfull with protectionist policies.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 6:38:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:09:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 10:13:32 AM EDT by zaphar]

Originally Posted By mattja:

Originally Posted By sherrick13:
Remember freedom is good. And that includes the markets.



There are no free markets without a free currency market. And everyone manipulates their currencies (including the US and China), so the idea of free markets is really a myth.




True... true...

Everyone should play by the same rules
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:22:56 AM EDT
In theory tariffs are a good idea. You can cut the budget deficit and trade deficit at that same time.

In practice they lead to trade wars, higher unemployment and budget deficits.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:40:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
China's money is severely undervalued. If its exchange rates floated, its value would have to increase as it piles up massive currency reserves from all their trade with us. But that doesn't happen. They've let it rise a LITTLE bit, but nowhere near what it should. Here's the latest "Big Mac Index" of PPP from The Economist magazine

economist.com/markets/bigmac/displayStory.cfm?story_id=5389856

In comparison to the US dollar, China's the most undervalued currency on this index! The Swiss franc is the most over-valued.



Economists don't like terms like "over-valued" if the currency is freely floating. The value is what the market says it is, and the Swiss Franc has been expensive for my entire lifetime. There are other Big Mac Indexes out there, including this one which compared wages at McDonalds to the cost of the food. According to that measurement the most "under-valued" currency is the Pakistani rupee, and the Indian rupee would seem to be very "under-valued" compared to the Yuan:

rising-hegemon.blogspot.com/2005/06/how-long-does-it-take-to-buy-big-mac.html

Notice that India isn't in the Big Mac Index (they have several sandwiches similar to the Big Mac but none have beef patties--BTW their Veggie Mac sandwich has almost as many calories as the US Mig Mac). This writer includes the Indian sandwiches and shows that the Rupee (which floats freely) is on par with the Yuan:

wetware.blogspot.com/2005/06/new-big-mac-index-and-india.html

In an Indian McDonalds you can get their equivalent of two Value Meals for about $3 ($1.50 each). Before India let their currency float the official rate was about 8 rupees to the dollar. After they let it float it when to 30 rupees and eventually almost 50 rupees to the dollar and now it is around 44.

There is also the "Tall Latte" index which shows the Yuan is on par with the Dollar:

economist.com/markets/bigmac/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2361072

And yes the Chinese are hurting themselves by keeping their currency pegged. It is a long-term unsustainable policy for them (but sustainable for the USA forever).

GunLvr
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:44:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Dramborleg:
All you free trade tards listen up:

There is no parity with goods and services we ship to other countries, as they do to us.

Protectionism is rampant in ALL countries save OURS.



Ignoring the ad hominum I will note that they give Nobel Prizes in Economics, but not in Protectionism.

I just had this discussion with a rather dim-witted employee here yesterday (you know the type--you can explain to her for a hour why motor oil needs to be changed a few times a year, and after all that she still won't believe you since some respected authority figure told her 30 years ago that oil changes were just a scam to make garage owners rich). Her argument boiled down to: since some other country wants to shoot themselves in the foot, we should shoot ourselves in both feet.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:10:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 2:14:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:
Tariffs are a bad idea. Talk about pandering to the unions under the guise of a "solution."



BINFUCKINGO
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:16:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2006 4:17:39 PM EDT by gaweidert]
China is not playing with us on a level court. The government sets the exchange rate over there. It is not allowed to float on the market like most of the world's currencies. Thye have found a way to level our factories in a cost effective efficient way. Even bombed out factories in German and Russia continued making war materials. Our factories are completely shut down and the equipment usually soldto China. Meanwhile we all stand by and cheer because "el Rushbo" tells us too.

Industry is the key to our independence. No industry = no independence. Throught the last 500 years, the country that lead the world's industries, called the shots. Today that country is China. Anybody notice that China is now trying to oust one of the permanent members of the security council and demand a permanent seat for itself. Of course el Rushbo won't tell you that either. It's not one of the republican talking points. We all know that China is out friend.

Since we no longer want to pay the price for our independence, we will lose it. It was our industrial strength that allowed us to kepp the world's best military in the field. Now we are taking the road that Russia followed. We can no longer afford to finance all the programs plus a competitive military. I would guess that free drug for granny is going to hasten our downfall.

Hell, my son hurt his back in aparachute jump at Ft. Bragg four weeks ago. In order to control medical costs, the military's response is "tough it out." So while he still has shooting pains running up and down his back plus back spasms, he has to go on maneouvers carrying a full battlepack and live on the ground for several days. Maybe if they sent him for proper medical care, he would be fully functional by now.

Sorry for the rants, but nobody but Shumer has had the guts to stand up and ask what the hell is going on here. It seems as long as Rush and his fat cat CEO friends get their hefty bonuses all is well. Maybe if they were forced to compete against Chinese CEO and talking head wages to keep their jobs they would suddenly see the light too. If the minimum wage kept pace with CEO compensation over the last 15 ears, it would be over $35/hour.

Everybody seems to think that business and industry are the same thing. Business good. Industry is hurting very badly in this country.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:23:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gaweidert:


Sorry for the rants, but nobody but Shumer has had the guts to stand up and ask what the hell is going on here. It seems as long as Rush and his fat cat CEO friends get their hefty bonuses all is well. Maybe if they were forced to compete against Chinese CEO and talking head wages to keep their jobs they would suddenly see the light too. If the minimum wage kept pace with CEO compensation over the last 15 ears, it would be over $35/hour.

Everybody seems to think that business and industry are the same thing. Business good. Industry is hurting very badly in this country.

Do you have a chip on your shoulder or something?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 4:23:59 PM EDT
The only thing Senator Schumer could do that is right would be to leave office immediately.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:57:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 11:07:58 AM EDT by GunLvrPHD]

Originally Posted By gaweidert:
Industry is the key to our independence. No industry = no independence. Throught the last 500 years, the country that lead the world's industries, called the shots. Today that country is China. Anybody notice that China is now trying to oust one of the permanent members of the security council and demand a permanent seat for itself. Of course el Rushbo won't tell you that either. It's not one of the republican talking points. We all know that China is out friend.



The US produces more industrial output today (measured as value of production) than it has in any time in our history. The difference is that we are doing it with a lot less people, and firms who can't produce with a lot less people (like GM) are going to be in trouble.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 9:11:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 9:11:41 AM EDT by CK1]
CHINA'S YUAN IS ARTIFICIALLY DEPRESSED.

In fact, the yuan's value is pegged to the US dollar to induce a trade deficit. Stuff that into your free market model and smoke it.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 9:21:36 AM EDT
I wonder if he is trying to position himself for the VP nod in '08?

THAT would suck.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:11:56 AM EDT
Okay!!!!!!!!! I'm back on track:

www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams091703.asp


I thought I smelled mold every da-da-damn time Pat opened his mouth.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:52:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By VTHOKIESHOOTER:
Name one free-market economy that is sucessfull with protectionist policies.



Name a true free-market economy.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 10:59:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DaveS:
Okay!!!!!!!!! I'm back on track:

www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams091703.asp


I thought I smelled mold every da-da-damn time Pat opened his mouth.



HA HA.

Walt Williams lands yet another blow to the protectionists' 'nads.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 11:10:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CK1:
CHINA'S YUAN IS ARTIFICIALLY DEPRESSED.

In fact, the yuan's value is pegged to the US dollar to induce a trade deficit. Stuff that into your free market model and smoke it.



Look, the Yuan appears to be pegged but it is not clear that it is "under-valued". Every other Asian country which attempted to artificially "under-value" their currency against the dollar had the experience that when their currency was floated the value of their currency fell. Examples are countries like India and Singapore (probably South Korea and Taiwan too).

And in the purchasing power parity data above it looks like China and India are about on par which makes me wonder if China isn't really too far from the "true" value of their currency with their peg.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 11:15:19 AM EDT
I like the idea, personally.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 12:02:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gaweidert:
China is not playing with us on a level court. The government sets the exchange rate over there. It is not allowed to float on the market like most of the world's currencies. Thye have found a way to level our factories in a cost effective efficient way. Even bombed out factories in German and Russia continued making war materials. Our factories are completely shut down and the equipment usually soldto China. Meanwhile we all stand by and cheer because "el Rushbo" tells us too.

Industry is the key to our independence. No industry = no independence. Throught the last 500 years, the country that lead the world's industries, called the shots. Today that country is China. Anybody notice that China is now trying to oust one of the permanent members of the security council and demand a permanent seat for itself. Of course el Rushbo won't tell you that either. It's not one of the republican talking points. We all know that China is out friend.

Since we no longer want to pay the price for our independence, we will lose it. It was our industrial strength that allowed us to kepp the world's best military in the field. Now we are taking the road that Russia followed. We can no longer afford to finance all the programs plus a competitive military. I would guess that free drug for granny is going to hasten our downfall.

Hell, my son hurt his back in aparachute jump at Ft. Bragg four weeks ago. In order to control medical costs, the military's response is "tough it out." So while he still has shooting pains running up and down his back plus back spasms, he has to go on maneouvers carrying a full battlepack and live on the ground for several days. Maybe if they sent him for proper medical care, he would be fully functional by now.

Sorry for the rants, but nobody but Shumer has had the guts to stand up and ask what the hell is going on here. It seems as long as Rush and his fat cat CEO friends get their hefty bonuses all is well. Maybe if they were forced to compete against Chinese CEO and talking head wages to keep their jobs they would suddenly see the light too. If the minimum wage kept pace with CEO compensation over the last 15 ears, it would be over $35/hour.

Everybody seems to think that business and industry are the same thing. Business good. Industry is hurting very badly in this country.



I hate to say it but I have to agree with Shumer on this one. There is nothing fair or free with the present trade situation. We are getting screwed big time. This countries industry is a shadow of what it was just 20 years ago. This will have serious consequences in the future for this country.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 1:11:00 PM EDT
All we are doing when we buy Chinese crap is build up the country that swore to destroy us economically; the chinese swore to "hang the last capitalist with the rope they sold us."
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 1:23:31 PM EDT
I think it's OK to use our government to fight economic "wars" on countries who have done so against us. How many "state" run companies who receive HUGE subsidies from their governments have hurt our "free market" modeled companies?

Japan, Europe, and China all do it to us, are we wrong to fight back?

That aside, Chuck Schumer needs to get a new job.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 1:44:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By johnrj:
All we are doing when we buy Chinese crap is build up the country that swore to destroy us economically; the chinese swore to "hang the last capitalist with the rope they sold us."



Um, that is not a Chinese quote. V. I. Lenin said it nearly 100 years ago.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 2:36:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By gaweidert:
Sounds good to me. Being from NY, you find a lot to actually like about the guy. If you call him, you get a response. If you neeed help he rolls up his sleeves, jumps into the trenches along side you, and fights with you. Now if we could just change his politics. Like his predecesor, republican Alphonse DaMato, a quirky kind of guy, but I would actually trust him if he were on my side in a street fight. Now as to the junior senator from NY................




Being from NY, I can say that, without a doubt, I hate that man like a gun hates rust. But the above is correct. He really does do things from time to time that may actually be interpreted as looking out for his constituents. He does write back, he actually knows how to find upstate NY on a map - and comes here every now and again, and he has taken a stand on a few issues that are important to us.

This is in contrast to Hitlery who couldnt find upstate NY with both hands if it was tattooed on her ass. While I hate both of them, and I will never forgive Schumer for his performance at the Waco hearings, I can at least have a little bit of grudging respect for him.

As for tariffs, I'm kind of OK with it. Maybe we can use the money we get from it to buy more F-22's and cruise missils for the coming conflict with them.



-K
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 11:49:49 AM EDT
Is Chucky Schumer doing something right ...


Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
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