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Posted: 3/13/2006 8:05:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 8:06:11 AM EDT by peasant]
One of my least fun jobs as a pastor is visiting people in jail(sigh). No, my problem is NOT with the people locked up in the jail. It's the JAILERS! Why do I as a law abiding citizen and taxpayer get treated like and spoken to like I DID SOMETHING WRONG and am worthy of utter contempt? Honestly, the convicts are at least glad to see me! Why do these people(jailers) continue to work somewhere if they're so stinking miserable working there? And WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYBODY ChOOSE TO GO TO JAIL EVERYDAY? Rant over.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:09:39 AM EDT
I'm pretty sure we have a couple of jailers here. If not, I know we have plenty of cops around who know them. They'll be able to explain this to you better than I can.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:10:17 AM EDT
I hated going to the jail. The sound of those doors clanging behind me gave me the willies.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:11:11 AM EDT
They probably act like that b/c of who they spend every day around.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:11:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
I'm pretty sure we have a couple of jailers here. If not, I know we have plenty of cops around who know them. They'll be able to explain this to you better than I can.



The thing is when you deal with shit heads all day long it does have tendency to carry over in your reactions with others. Hard to turn it on and off like a light switch.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:15:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
I'm pretty sure we have a couple of jailers here. If not, I know we have plenty of cops around who know them. They'll be able to explain this to you better than I can.



The thing is when you deal with shit heads all day long it does have tendency to carry over in your reactions with others. Hard to turn it on and off like a light switch.



Yup.. my step father was a jailer for 20 years.. Got in at least 1 fight per week.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:16:29 AM EDT
SubNetMask - I really would like to have this explained to me. Basically, I have a job to do and so do the jailers and LEOs. I have NO problem with that. A little professional courtesy would go a long way, though. And BTW, I'm not the one who did something wrong. But, this happens EVERY TIME I have to go to the jail.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:17:47 AM EDT
One day we got a service call to work on a refigerator at the local jail. They instructed that I DO NOT show up in a blue shirt and jeans (because that was the uniform for the inmates at the time) Well guess what my uniform was?

Anyway this was a section that was under construction and YES I agree with you, they were kinda rude to me. I guess that these guys are callous to the world because of the scumbags they have to deal with.

I know it is no excuse but they must take on a persona when they walk inside that building and those walls because I have met a few of these guys outside those walls and when I am in their home fixing appliances, they are calm, relaxed people.

Matter of fact just went to one of their homes last week.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:18:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:
The thing is when you deal with shit heads all day long it does have tendency to carry over in your reactions with others. Hard to turn it on and off like a light switch.



I have the opposite problem, the people I work with are good people. Oh wait, you didn't mean coworkers.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:18:16 AM EDT
Oh,I thought you were playing Monopoly .
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:20:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By peasant:
SubNetMask - I really would like to have this explained to me. Basically, I have a job to do and so do the jailers and LEOs. I have NO problem with that. A little professional courtesy would go a long way, though. And BTW, I'm not the one who did something wrong. But, this happens EVERY TIME I have to go to the jail.



they have the legitimate job of overseeing criminals that have broken the law of the land. You are not in the equation at all. You are there to comfort the inmates. your presence is not vital to the function of the system.

Understand?
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:22:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 8:29:56 AM EDT by warlord]
I used to work with a former LASD/LASO(Los Angeles Sherrifs) Deputy III, he was like a lead deputy with 10 or so other people under him with 10-15 years experience as a deputy, and the job he hates the WORST is the jail detail. He told me that you don't know how many mentally ill people are there in the general population and in jail, he goes it is incredible amount. This was 20 years ago at least.

BTW: for some people also wondering, what is the best job in the LASD/LASO, it was working the courts, the Sheriffs provides security there. They work a standard 9a-5p shift. But I spoke with some of those folks, and some of them get bored with it also. So it depends.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:25:13 AM EDT
I hate going to jail too but I do not get on the internet and whine about it
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:31:57 AM EDT
As a former reserve deputy assigned to the jail, It's not personal, you have to be an ass, they will take advantage of you otherwise. Hard to turn on and off. Not very complicated.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:32:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 8:35:29 AM EDT by TheTracker]
Don't be so sensitive about it, Look where you are and what is delt there with everyday
that you don't see.
And with all due respect pastor you're just another thing that a CO has to deal with
when maybe there not in the mood
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:32:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By peasant:
One of my least fun jobs as a pastor is visiting people in jail(sigh). No, my problem is NOT with the people locked up in the jail. It's the JAILERS! Why do I as a law abiding citizen and taxpayer get treated like and spoken to like I DID SOMETHING WRONG and am worthy of utter contempt? Honestly, the convicts are at least glad to see me! Why do these people(jailers) continue to work somewhere if they're so stinking miserable working there? And WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYBODY ChOOSE TO GO TO JAIL EVERYDAY? Rant over.


Well,one thing that works for me ( of course take this for what it's worth and I do not have the job you do so....you know. ) is I carry myself with self-respect. Head up high but not arrogant,good posture but not corn cobbish and call everyone sir or mamm. I also try to talk to people like I've known them all my life.
You of course have a harder job than I do and deal with people who well...lets face it have not been exactly model citizens so.....
Keep up the god work. I mean good work!
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:33:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JFP:
I hate going to jail too but I do not get on the internet and whine about it


Sorry JFP, but I'm not whining. I've had this problem before and I don't just get on the internet about it. Generally, if the situation calls for it, I go directly to the Sheriff about it. As I said before, I have a job to do and I do it.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:36:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JFP:
I hate going to jail too but I do not get on the internet and whine about it


Thanks for letting us know.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:36:28 AM EDT
thats strange. every time i go to jail the jailors are generally fine. nice to talk to even. I am polite and curt with them and they normally show me the same respect. There are always some but you just gotta remember where you are. then again I wasn't going to jail to pray. Haven't been in a while and don't plan on going back. One jailor said to me you seem like a nice enough kid...but I don't ever wanna see you again.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:37:55 AM EDT
<----------------------------------------------------------------------
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:40:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By peasant:
One of my least fun jobs as a pastor is visiting people in jail(sigh). No, my problem is NOT with the people locked up in the jail. It's the JAILERS! Why do I as a law abiding citizen and taxpayer get treated like and spoken to like I DID SOMETHING WRONG and am worthy of utter contempt? Honestly, the convicts are at least glad to see me! Why do these people(jailers) continue to work somewhere if they're so stinking miserable working there? And WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYBODY ChOOSE TO GO TO JAIL EVERYDAY? Rant over.



A few things here.

First, as an ex-prisoner, clergy visits are extremely important to the incarcerated - thank you for the willingness to take your time in those conditions to help ease others!

Second, Camy is a DO here for MCSO (Maricopa County Sheriff's Office) and I have seen a big digression in her attitude the last 6 months. It seems like she has this mentality that anyone not LE is beneath her, and she flys off the handle easily. Like others have mentioned, I chalk it up to dealing with inmates all night long. It has to be a hard job dealing with liars that tell you anything you ant to hear one moment, and then say something completey opposite behind your back to another DO.

Finally, don't let their attitudes get you down, sir. 80% of the DO's Camy work with are there for one reason only: because they are little people without the uniform that cannot cope with the realities of life without being in charge. I'm not painting with a broad brush, I know this first hand.

The other 20% are consumate professionals who honestly strive to teach the inmates a beter way to live, and extend respect and even kindness.

You can rant in my ear anyday... I have more than a few of my own. As I told Camy just last night, if she can't start leaving that attitude at work, she's going to have to move. I've spent 7 years straightening myself out, and am now pretty well respected. I refuse to be treated like second class.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:40:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Pangea:

Originally Posted By peasant:
SubNetMask - I really would like to have this explained to me. Basically, I have a job to do and so do the jailers and LEOs. I have NO problem with that. A little professional courtesy would go a long way, though. And BTW, I'm not the one who did something wrong. But, this happens EVERY TIME I have to go to the jail.



they have the legitimate job of overseeing criminals that have broken the law of the land. You are not in the equation at all. You are there to comfort the inmates. your presence is not vital to the function of the system.

Understand?



First off, not everyone in jail has broken the law. Innocent until PROVEN guilty, no? Secondly, any diversion from 'criminal school' in the thought processes of those jailed should be welcomed by the staff. It's time spent not dreaming up ways to screw with the staff. Not vital, but none the less a diversion.

Last, there is no excuse for bad manners. Especially from the class of people who are charged with enforcing civil behavior in scociety.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:42:05 AM EDT

Why do I as a law abiding citizen and taxpayer get treated like and spoken to like I DID SOMETHING WRONG and am worthy of utter contempt?

Because you're not a LEO. If you're not one of them, then you're one of the criminals. The blue line just keeps getting thicker.

JFP, why insult him? He's going there to try to help the inmates so maybe they won't end-up back in jail. He's one of the good guys.z
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:44:27 AM EDT
Seems most of the corrections guys I know absoulutely hate their jobs, I don't blame them.
Other than the paycheck, what satisfaction do these poor bastards get from their job? Inmates hate em, street cops think of them as babysitters, and the public distrusts everyone with a badge.
Tough job.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:45:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DrFrige:

I know it is no excuse but they must take on a persona when they walk inside that building and those walls because I have met a few of these guys outside those walls and when I am in their home fixing appliances, they are calm, relaxed people.




Probably something to this. If they drop their guard for a minute, even around you, it places them in danger. I would probably be a little high strung also in that environment. Dont take it personally.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:49:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pcsutton:

Originally Posted By Pangea:

Originally Posted By peasant:
SubNetMask - I really would like to have this explained to me. Basically, I have a job to do and so do the jailers and LEOs. I have NO problem with that. A little professional courtesy would go a long way, though. And BTW, I'm not the one who did something wrong. But, this happens EVERY TIME I have to go to the jail.



they have the legitimate job of overseeing criminals that have broken the law of the land. You are not in the equation at all. You are there to comfort the inmates. your presence is not vital to the function of the system.

Understand?



First off, not everyone in jail has broken the law. Innocent until PROVEN guilty, no? Secondly, any diversion from 'criminal school' in the thought processes of those jailed should be welcomed by the staff. It's time spent not dreaming up ways to screw with the staff. Not vital, but none the less a diversion.

Last, there is no excuse for bad manners. Especially from the class of people who are charged with enforcing civil behavior in scociety.



If they are in jail it is usally because they were CONVICTED of a crime. Except for small number waiting to be bonded out or being held without bond. Again this would be a very small percentage of the overall population.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:37:13 AM EDT
You are causing them more work. If you don't visit, they don't have to deal with you or the security issues you cause. That and they have to look up peoples rectums and other places during searches. That right there would make me short with everyone.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:38:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By peasant:
One of my least fun jobs as a pastor is visiting people in jail(sigh). No, my problem is NOT with the people locked up in the jail. It's the JAILERS! Why do I as a law abiding citizen and taxpayer get treated like and spoken to like I DID SOMETHING WRONG and am worthy of utter contempt? Honestly, the convicts are at least glad to see me! Why do these people(jailers) continue to work somewhere if they're so stinking miserable working there? And WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYBODY ChOOSE TO GO TO JAIL EVERYDAY? Rant over.


Maybe its because they detect your contempt of them.
When I was a CO we didn't have any problems with any minister who didn't allow himself to be duped by the inmates.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:48:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
I'm pretty sure we have a couple of jailers here. If not, I know we have plenty of cops around who know them. They'll be able to explain this to you better than I can.



The thing is when you deal with shit heads all day long it does have tendency to carry over in your reactions with others. Hard to turn it on and off like a light switch.



+1 My Sister-In-Law was dating a "Corrections Officer" for a while. I don't think he was REALLY a bad guy but he could be quite abusive in the way he talked to people outside of work. My S-I-L broke up with him because (as she put it) she got tired of being treated like a prisoner.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 10:31:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JFP:
I hate going to jail too but I do not get on the internet and whine about it




Don't be an ass.

What the guy does is good work.

TXL
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 10:43:46 AM EDT
Because you mean extra work to them, while the cons con you for whatever.

Link Posted: 3/13/2006 11:08:11 AM EDT
I've only had 1 Priest in 10 years of DOC work that has caused me to act anything other than nice. This man thought that the offenders were being treated unfairly because we would pat them down, make them clear metal detectors etc. When he said something to the effect of I was not acting very christian like I replied, "We have something nea in this country called seperation of church and state." I then pointed at the patch on my arm and said "See this word that says Indiana, thats a state!" BTW, about 6 months later this man was arrested and later convicted of Child Molesting.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 11:09:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TxLewis:

Originally Posted By JFP:
I hate going to jail too but I do not get on the internet and whine about it




Don't be an ass.

What the guy does is good work.

TXL


trying not to be an a$$, just dont like using the internet to bit.........damn now you're making me do it
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 11:10:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 11:11:46 AM EDT by John_Wayne777]

Originally Posted By peasant:
One of my least fun jobs as a pastor is visiting people in jail(sigh). No, my problem is NOT with the people locked up in the jail. It's the JAILERS! Why do I as a law abiding citizen and taxpayer get treated like and spoken to like I DID SOMETHING WRONG and am worthy of utter contempt? Honestly, the convicts are at least glad to see me! Why do these people(jailers) continue to work somewhere if they're so stinking miserable working there? And WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYBODY ChOOSE TO GO TO JAIL EVERYDAY? Rant over.



Well thank goodness somebody DOES go every day.

And being in an environment where 90% of the people would kill you if they had the chance doesn't exactly make one the warm and fuzzy type, you know??

When you are at work in those prisons, you have to be on edge and on alert all the time. That's life.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 11:34:52 AM EDT
20 years ago, I used to be a computer repairman, and one of our accounts was the county jail. It was the only time I have ever been to jail. While they were not rude or verbally abusive to me, it was not a nice place to be. They treated me like I was a pain in their ass, even though I was showing up to help them with their problem or for a maintenance issue.

In the county, many deputies fresh out of the academy have to do 1 year at the jail before they go out on the streets. Also, jail duty is where they stick guys that screw up on the street but not bad enough to get fired. So you have some of the worst officers training the rookies. I don't know if it is the same for city cops. I am sure some of them pick jail duty because of the regular hours, but it does have that reputation in this town.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 1:19:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mejames:
In the county, many deputies fresh out of the academy have to do 1 year at the jail before they go out on the streets. Also, jail duty is where they stick guys that screw up on the street but not bad enough to get fired. So you have some of the worst officers training the rookies. I don't know if it is the same for city cops. I am sure some of them pick jail duty because of the regular hours, but it does have that reputation in this town.


City PDs do not generally maintain correctional facilities. At most they'll have a temporary lock-up for people waiting to see the judge.

"Regular hours"? You think the jail just shuts down and everyone goes home? Theres someone there 24/7.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 1:21:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Bama-Shooter:

Originally Posted By SubnetMask:
I'm pretty sure we have a couple of jailers here. If not, I know we have plenty of cops around who know them. They'll be able to explain this to you better than I can.



The thing is when you deal with shit heads all day long it does have tendency to carry over in your reactions with others. Hard to turn it on and off like a light switch.



The same thing happens at most gun stores.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 1:22:32 PM EDT
The COs here are unfailingly polite and professional, not just to lawyers, but to the other visitors I see them deal with. Sorry to hear that that's the exception.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 1:43:19 PM EDT
hmmm, Maybe they are just being cautious. It's not unheard of for even clergy to smuggle contraband into prison. A Rabbi got caught bringing in drugs inside health and comfort items to give to the state inmates. Now he gets to chat with the inmates real often.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 1:46:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JFP:
I hate going to jail too but I do not get on the internet and whine about it



Another ARFCOM deep thinker.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 1:56:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 1:58:05 PM EDT by peasant]
QUOTE:Maybe its because they detect your contempt of them.
When I was a CO we didn't have any problems with any minister who didn't allow himself to be duped by the inmates.END QUOTE.
I have the utmost respect for any person who earns his own way in this world. And I am fully in favor of locking up people who victimize others and realize it's a dirty job to deal with the criminals in this world and I'm thankful somebody is willing to do it. But, as I said before, this is MY job. And generally, it is not the Sheriff and Chief of Police I have problems from. Both of them happen to be personal friends of mine. I just think us good guys need to treat each other with simple courtesy. After all, I'm out here trying to be a positive influence so we don't have to lock people up in the first place. That's a tough job, too.
ETA : and again, I'm not whining. I found out a loooong time ago that nobody wants to listen to it. I'm the guy that other people whine TO!
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 2:00:57 PM EDT
I had a job interview down at the county jail to work in the infirmary (I'm a nurse). After the interview, they offered me the job on the spot. I tentatively agreed to take it. A tour of the jail followed. Everything was pretty cool, but I ended up not taking the job. It seemed like it would be too depressing reporting to work 5 days a week in such a dreary place.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 5:18:17 PM EDT
This subject has been well researched. Every psych student gets to read about the Zimbardo Prison Experiment. It's long but a good read.

www.prisonexp.org/
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 5:39:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By peasant:
I just think us good guys need to treat each other with simple courtesy. After all, I'm out here trying to be a positive influence so we don't have to lock people up in the first place. That's a tough job, too.
ETA : and again, I'm not whining. I found out a loooong time ago that nobody wants to listen to it. I'm the guy that other people whine TO!



You may not be whining, but the viewpoint is, no offense, overly simplistic, and I am sure that the officers probably view you as being somewhat gullible for thinking that, considering who they deal with on a daily basis.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:40:17 PM EDT
Bottomline: They view you as a " Do-Gooder "
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:43:43 PM EDT
I do prison ministry and our jailers are nice
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:46:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 6:47:41 PM EDT by 13thWarrior]
No man should be caged.

Anything to do with a crime over 100,000 dollars you get a bullet in the head.

You kill someone you get a bullet in the head.

All others extreme fines it's more effective.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:56:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 6:59:38 PM EDT by Turnkey]

Originally Posted By 13thWarrior:
No man should be caged.



Oh I agree why should we pay for Heat and Air-Conditioning let them sleep in tents

Bring back Chain Gangs and Convict Labor ! ( This way they get plenty of exercise and fresh air )
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:56:35 PM EDT
I work for a metro Atlanta S.oO. I must qualify this post by saying I have never worked in the jail as a C.O. I was hired directly into patrol division, but here is my two cents worth. If you look at the majority of our jail staff they are young, 18-23 y/o and most of them have never been in the military or served in any managerial or high stress situations. So what do they do when they are given authority over others, they abuse it. But, I truly believe they don't know any better, I think many believe they are trying punish those in the jail, but that isn't their job. And lets be honest our C.O.'s make $9 an hours, so you often get exactly what you pay for. Also our turnover rate is so high, that the experience necessary to be a succesful C.O. or deputy which is gained over time, is never been able to be furthered.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:08:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 7:08:40 PM EDT by Sukebe]

Originally Posted By peasant:
One of my least fun jobs as a pastor is visiting people in jail(sigh). No, my problem is NOT with the people locked up in the jail. It's the JAILERS! Why do I as a law abiding citizen and taxpayer get treated like and spoken to like I DID SOMETHING WRONG and am worthy of utter contempt? Honestly, the convicts are at least glad to see me! Why do these people(jailers) continue to work somewhere if they're so stinking miserable working there? And WHY ON EARTH WOULD ANYBODY ChOOSE TO GO TO JAIL EVERYDAY? Rant over.



Have you ever thought of trying to minister to the jailers as well? They have spiritual needs just the same as the prisoners. As you say, they go to jail everyday. The jailers see people at their worst every day, day after day, year after year. They have to distance themselves from the prisoners. They have to dehumanize the prisoners to a certain degree because they know these peoples lives are dead end and that they really are suffering. Otherwise they couldn't do the job. Seeing the worst in people, seeing people suffering so often eats at your humanity. It tears at your soul. After time, you begin to keep everyone at a distance. Especially on the job. You wear a game face. Sometimes that game face is hard to take off.

Incarceration sucks for everyone on the inside. So Preacher, how about a little compassion, a little understanding and some of that christian love for the jailers?
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:11:19 PM EDT
Maybe they think you should be spending time with their victims.
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