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Posted: 3/13/2006 3:08:46 AM EDT
I think it will be. Sure, the 20th had two World Wars, a bunch of smaller wars, and countless hotspot civil wars around the globe, but for some reason I think this century will be even more violent:

Islam
China
Illegal immigration here at home
Tin-pot dictators abroad
Entangling Alliances (see WWI for reference)

Yes, this is going to be an interesting century. Remember, it was 14 years before "the big one" hit during the last century.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 3:09:39 AM EDT
I don't think so. I think people are much more afraid of war now.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 3:31:24 AM EDT
Considering WWI, WWII, and the 100 million victims of 20th century communism, it will be a challenge.

If the Jihad comes back full force (read the history), it will go a long way toward that end.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 3:33:54 AM EDT
The 20th century was a bloody century, probably the bloodiest single century in the history of man.

Given that we don't seem to have learned the bloody lessons of the 20th century since we still seem to be pushing the same BS ideas and listening to the same BS artists who are trying to redefine society in their own image, I would guess that the world is in for a very unpleasant 21st century too.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 3:33:59 AM EDT
No. we have weapons that can vaporize liquids into dust. The future wars will however be full of powdered blood though.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 5:01:32 AM EDT
I honestly don't think so. I'll tell you why:

Because I bvelieve that political correctness will run so rampant that rather than engage evil (Islam, dictatorships, terrorists), most of the world will appease them. The groups or factions that scream the loudest will basically get what they want.

I'm serious.

CMOS
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 5:09:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CMOS:
I honestly don't think so. I'll tell you why:

Because I bvelieve that political correctness will run so rampant that rather than engage evil (Islam, dictatorships, terrorists), most of the world will appease them. The groups or factions that scream the loudest will basically get what they want.

I'm serious.

CMOS



U.S. would be the perfect example of your premise. U.K. for an even earlier example. I believe eventually there will be conflict when the system is so upside down that no-one will be able to cope with the illogic/ injustice of it and the system will fold under the weight of it's own burgeoning size and inefficiency. Then things will get ugly.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:23:56 AM EDT
Political correctness is a manifestation of predominantly white societies. Even those minority subcultures which exist within these lack political correctness and equating our tolerance and political correctness with say, Africa, China or the ME would be a mistake.

In numbers dead this century will likely surpass those of all cneturies before it. WWIII may or may not have the level of genocide and atrocities committed in WWII but it will likely be primarily fought in Asia with huge numbers of dead, many from the secondary effects of war - famine and starvation, disease, etc. Most of these nations are on the edge of survivability as it is and it would take little to tip them over. I also believe tactical battlefield nukes will be used to eliminate some highly populated urban centers, rather than have to take them conventionally. From a tactical POV it makes perfect sense. Why would you lose an enitre division taking a city in say, India, when you can simply nuke it and move on without a concern for having an enemy stronghold at your rear.

We always want to fight the last war and WWIII is going to be very different from most before it with new tactics being developed to adapt to the style of combat which will arise. It is MO, that you will see more handheld antiarmor and SAMs. Keeping up with production of modern high tech weapons could be exceedingly difficult and the Air Forces of the combatants will be rapidly decimated. Naval warfare might undergo some major changes.

In any event, WWIII will be about domination of natural resources on the planet as much as conquest and China is clearly the nation to watch. Unless the US, Europe and Russia adopt an aggressive posture early on I would suggest that most of Asia will fall to the Chinese and that the death toll will be many times that of WWII. Likewise there may well be many regions of Asia which be left inhabitable.

I am not sure that short of an strong early alliance with Europe and Russia that we will be much of a player in this. Given the European preponderance towards appeasement and weakness it will likely get out of control prior to our ability to do so.

Gonna be ugly.
That's what I think.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:27:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 7:28:07 AM EDT by macman37]
pshooo that's a toughie

Humanity have to work hard to equal the pogroms, the wars and the general violence in the 20th century.

From this Chairborne Ranger's perspective I say no, it won't be bloodier. It will be violent but IMHO there's no way it could be bloodier.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:32:07 AM EDT
Not unless we break out the nukes
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:33:34 AM EDT
I think TEOTWAWKI is going to be within the next 10 yrs and the USA as we know it now will be drastically different.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:33:35 AM EDT
More bloody, probably much more bloody. Wars are caused by misperceptions and mistakes, and nothing can prevent them.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:43:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 7:44:28 AM EDT by Cross_Steel]
Every generation thinks it's so much wiser than the last. In the 19th Century you had the American Civil War which was devistatiing espicially for the South. It took until almost after WWII for the South to recover economically.

Also took at European colonialism is Africa and China in the 19th century.

People thought they were so wise as the start of the 20th that they would avoid past conflicts. Only to have WWI then give into an idea of apeasment so that gave rise to Hitler and Imperial Japan thus, WWII.

Then the Cold War and conflicts around the world.

Man's reasons for war haven't changed only the weapons. Nuclear technology is now a 60 year old technology. The 3rd world crazy dictator countries are now catching up to this technology.

I think I agree with Einstein.

"I don't know how the third world war will be fought," Albert Einstein once remarked, "but I do know that the fourth one will be fought with sticks and stones."
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:06:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Political correctness is a manifestation of predominantly white societies. Even those minority subcultures which exist within these lack political correctness and equating our tolerance and political correctness with say, Africa, China or the ME would be a mistake.

In numbers dead this century will likely surpass those of all cneturies before it. WWIII may or may not have the level of genocide and atrocities committed in WWII but it will likely be primarily fought in Asia with huge numbers of dead, many from the secondary effects of war - famine and starvation, disease, etc. Most of these nations are on the edge of survivability as it is and it would take little to tip them over. I also believe tactical battlefield nukes will be used to eliminate some highly populated urban centers, rather than have to take them conventionally. From a tactical POV it makes perfect sense. Why would you lose an enitre division taking a city in say, India, when you can simply nuke it and move on without a concern for having an enemy stronghold at your rear.

We always want to fight the last war and WWIII is going to be very different from most before it with new tactics being developed to adapt to the style of combat which will arise. It is MO, that you will see more handheld antiarmor and SAMs. Keeping up with production of modern high tech weapons could be exceedingly difficult and the Air Forces of the combatants will be rapidly decimated. Naval warfare might undergo some major changes.

In any event, WWIII will be about domination of natural resources on the planet as much as conquest and China is clearly the nation to watch. Unless the US, Europe and Russia adopt an aggressive posture early on I would suggest that most of Asia will fall to the Chinese and that the death toll will be many times that of WWII. Likewise there may well be many regions of Asia which be left inhabitable.

I am not sure that short of an strong early alliance with Europe and Russia that we will be much of a player in this. Given the European preponderance towards appeasement and weakness it will likely get out of control prior to our ability to do so.

Gonna be ugly.
That's what I think.



We have a winner. Bravo, Doc.

Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:08:35 AM EDT
I vote for more bloody.

As water, food & other resources dry up, I think there will be very bloody wars/genocides in the Third World for limited resources. Rwanda & the Sudan are the canaries in the coal mine. The developed countries can choose to participate, but I hope the US doesn't.

Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:42:12 AM EDT
I just can't see any of todays modern contries being willing enough to destroy their economics with a world war.

The only two super powers that might fight us are China and Russia, and half their population would starve if a war broke out.

Look how much we are spending in Iraq right now, how many other contries can do that? I think its simply not economicly viable to start a world war, then rebuild the country you destroyed. Thats the whole point of attacking another country, to capture their resources.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:50:53 AM EDT
I think in sheer numbers it will be more bloody. There WILL be a use of WMDs by terrorists at some point, and the situation wrt Israel vs the local Arabs WILL come to a head at some point. At some point, hundreds of thousands of people will die in a conflagration in the ME. The only thing that could stop it is the development of a cheap, efficient alternative to fossil fuels.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:52:42 AM EDT
China *will* be looking for more resources at some point. They will also be looking for more technology.

China and/or Islam will be the catalysts for the next big one. And it's going to be ugly.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:45:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 6:46:27 PM EDT by stevem1a]
Nuclear bombs
Thermonuclear bombs
Nerve gas
ICBMs
SLBMs
Biological weapons
Genetically manipulated biological weapons
Directed energy weapons
War in cyberspace
Espionage from space

And we are only 6 years into the new century...

I feel that it is only a matter of time.


Steve
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:47:09 PM EDT
It's a distinct possibility.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:54:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FourStringSlinger:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
Political correctness is a manifestation of predominantly white societies. Even those minority subcultures which exist within these lack political correctness and equating our tolerance and political correctness with say, Africa, China or the ME would be a mistake.

In numbers dead this century will likely surpass those of all cneturies before it. WWIII may or may not have the level of genocide and atrocities committed in WWII but it will likely be primarily fought in Asia with huge numbers of dead, many from the secondary effects of war - famine and starvation, disease, etc. Most of these nations are on the edge of survivability as it is and it would take little to tip them over. I also believe tactical battlefield nukes will be used to eliminate some highly populated urban centers, rather than have to take them conventionally. From a tactical POV it makes perfect sense. Why would you lose an enitre division taking a city in say, India, when you can simply nuke it and move on without a concern for having an enemy stronghold at your rear.

We always want to fight the last war and WWIII is going to be very different from most before it with new tactics being developed to adapt to the style of combat which will arise. It is MO, that you will see more handheld antiarmor and SAMs. Keeping up with production of modern high tech weapons could be exceedingly difficult and the Air Forces of the combatants will be rapidly decimated. Naval warfare might undergo some major changes.

In any event, WWIII will be about domination of natural resources on the planet as much as conquest and China is clearly the nation to watch. Unless the US, Europe and Russia adopt an aggressive posture early on I would suggest that most of Asia will fall to the Chinese and that the death toll will be many times that of WWII. Likewise there may well be many regions of Asia which be left inhabitable.

I am not sure that short of an strong early alliance with Europe and Russia that we will be much of a player in this. Given the European preponderance towards appeasement and weakness it will likely get out of control prior to our ability to do so.

Gonna be ugly.
That's what I think.



We have a winner. Bravo, Doc.



+1
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:57:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2006 6:58:03 PM EDT by 13thWarrior]
I only have so many bullets.
I can hear the silo doors opening.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 6:59:46 PM EDT
As populations increase and weapons get advanced, the size of the armies will get larger, the casualties higher, the risk of Nukedom higher, and the End of the World sooner.

Quoting Hemingway, "In a modern war, you die like a dog for nothing..."

No heroic one on one combat, it's organized violence aimed at destroying another organization. So the bleeding can only get worse.

But for the most part, the bleeding will be done by the lesser technologically advanced people, like the Iraqi rebels, while soldiers from developed countries that are equipped with body armor and better quality bullets will do less bleeding.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:10:14 PM EDT
We should enjoy the decade. Cuz after that everything is going to crumble.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:18:28 PM EDT
More people died in 1945 than in any other year in human history.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:22:00 PM EDT
In the not too distant future, there are going to be an awful lot of little tinpot dictators with nukes.

I can't see that being good for anyone.


Boom, boom - out goes the lights.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:30:25 PM EDT
C21 will probably be recognized as bloodier, and quickly.

A large part of that, is that we're now able to get cameras into places where warfare more or less never stops. Even those places that aren't fashionable enough to watch or intervene in real-time will be tallied by historians.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:40:35 PM EDT
My theory/Hypotheseis.


China and N.Korea Vs Taiwan/Japan/S.Korea/U.S.A. and in a longshot Russia. Vast chunks of China and nearly all of Korean peninsula made uninhabitable due to fallout and Tokyo destroyed.


Israel nukes Iran and Syria.

Pakis vs. nearly all 1st and 2nd world countries. Pakistans population cut in half.

About 1/3 earths population dead.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:48:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mattl:
My theory/Hypotheseis.


China and N.Korea Vs Taiwan/Japan/S.Korea/U.S.A. and in a longshot Russia. Vast chunks of China and nearly all of Korean peninsula made uninhabitable due to fallout and Tokyo destroyed.


Israel nukes Iran and Syria.

Pakis vs. nearly all 1st and 2nd world countries. Pakistans population cut in half.

About 1/3 earths population dead.




Ancient Chinese "Curse" May you live in interesting times. This century keeps getting more and more interesting all the time.


Alvin
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:04:13 PM EDT
A bioweapon could easily kill millions, and genetic engineering is disturbingly easy to do ono a small budget.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:08:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CMOS:
I honestly don't think so. I'll tell you why:

Because I bvelieve that political correctness will run so rampant that rather than engage evil (Islam, dictatorships, terrorists), most of the world will appease them. The groups or factions that scream the loudest will basically get what they want.

I'm serious.

CMOS




The policy of "appeasement" brought us WWII. Appeasement never works.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:11:17 PM EDT
No. Within 10 years lawyers will have succesfully sued for the removal of all sharp objects from the hands of the general population and it will be a requirment that we all walk around in padded suits to prevent us from hurting ourselves. Warning lables will be required on everything.



Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:14:27 PM EDT
There are still insane maniacs ruling nations on this planet and there are more and more inhabitants every day, so....YES.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 11:37:12 PM EDT
Its going to be less bloody. Conflicts will be on smaller scales. There wont be a large scale combat ala WWII probably ever again.

Wars will still happen, but on a smaller scale and via shit hole nations with out the ability to wield a mass scale confict. I know China is the sleeping giant - but as the world moves towards a global market - they are more likely to dominate us with economic factors and science and technology.

Sure, there will more more genocide - but on smaller scales than Hitler or Stalin.

INFORMATION is one of the top reasons. The public is better educated than it has EVER been before. Even the ones with thier heads up their asses are better off than your average person 60 years ago. Ala the fax machine and the Internet.

No - its going to keep getting better - slowly.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 2:12:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
More people died in 1945 than in any other year in human history.


If/when China tries something that record will fall pretty quickly.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:33:53 AM EDT
Why do i have this feeling that People who consider China to be a threat are over 30-35 years? That is SSSOOO 20th century. Like you still are fighting the cold war or something. MAybe it's becuase i grew up on Kung-fu movies, Chinese take out and went on a trip to China in 2003 that i just scratch my head when i hear about the "yellow peril" What are they gonna do? Invade Japan? What natural resources do they have? Also China has Nukes and do we, you end up with MAD all over again. Population problems? They got that shit under wraps. In 40 years their population will have actually shrunk by about 1/4th. They only really represent a Economic threat. AH but how can that be since they use "Obsolete" Communism?! Maybe it's becuase they really are'nt Communist at all any more, it's just that the Members of the Party dont want to give up power but they are now all Capitalist Jrs. And as far as China being Aggressive? WHEN? China has always been inner looking and xenophobic. Although they have interfered with local neighibors China has never invaded Russia or Europe or India historically. Only border brush wars.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 4:44:03 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
More people died in 1945 than in any other year in human history.



BS.

During The Flood they all died except 2...
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:17:26 AM EDT

They only really represent a Economic threat.


How do we pay to keep them from wanting our land or just wanting us gone if we're wiped out economically?
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:20:41 AM EDT
As to the question, the blood will rise to the horse's mane.

Nukes are going to fly in the not-too distant future. No doubt in my mind.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:21:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Why do i have this feeling that People who consider China to be a threat are over 30-35 years? That is SSSOOO 20th century. Like you still are fighting the cold war or something. MAybe it's becuase i grew up on Kung-fu movies, Chinese take out and went on a trip to China in 2003 that i just scratch my head when i hear about the "yellow peril" What are they gonna do? Invade Japan? What natural resources do they have? Also China has Nukes and do we, you end up with MAD all over again. Population problems? They got that shit under wraps. In 40 years their population will have actually shrunk by about 1/4th. They only really represent a Economic threat. AH but how can that be since they use "Obsolete" Communism?! Maybe it's becuase they really are'nt Communist at all any more, it's just that the Members of the Party dont want to give up power but they are now all Capitalist Jrs. And as far as China being Aggressive? WHEN? China has always been inner looking and xenophobic. Although they have interfered with local neighibors China has never invaded Russia or Europe or India historically. Only border brush wars.



You have more rose colored glasses that the rest of us 35+ year old fogies can wear? China wants to be the big dog. China need oil and steel. China's military budget has increased an officially acknowleged 17%+ annualy for the 10 years running. China tries to thwart us internationally at every turn. China'sgovernment has never dropped communism, and supports whackjob commies like Chavez, along with upstanding individuals like Iran's insano leader.

China and the US are going to have it out, probably within the next ten years.

Nick
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 5:21:21 AM EDT

One hundred years ago, in 1906, no one had any inkling that something as horrific as The Great War was a few years away. The Wright Brothers had just flown 3 years before so they definitely couldn't conceive of WWII with it's city killing air raids and atomic weapons.

God only knows what this century has in store for us.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:25:05 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gunner1X:
Not unless we break out the nukes



Exactly, I think the days of huge groundwars fought with conscripted armies duking it out face to face are over. Yes we will see more stuff like Iraq and afgansitan, but I think we will resort to nukes if we are faced with something like WWII.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 8:00:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
More people died in 1945 than in any other year in human history.



BS.

During The Flood they all died except 2...



Noah, his wife, and his three sons and their wives were on the ark. That makes 8 people. Not two...
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 8:14:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
More people died in 1945 than in any other year in human history.



BS.

During The Flood they all died except 2...



Noah, his wife, and his three sons and their wives were on the ark. That makes 8 people. Not two...



Except that that never happened. 1945 it is.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 8:25:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Why do i have this feeling that People who consider China to be a threat are over 30-35 years?



Maybe because we have been around the block a few more times than you and have a fair understanding of where we have been and where we are heading.

Back in the late 20's and 30's there were some who tried to convince the US that Japan was a threat with imperial delusions. Most everyone said what you and the China apologists say now. Further, the Chinese are pretty much trying to run the same playbook without the mistakes Japan made.

Thanks to the ignorance of most americans we will have to learn the same lessons all over again but this time against an enemy with a much greater population, a much better geographic location, better access to resources. I don't really mind those as you having to pay for your mistakes but you always unload those on the rest of us.


That is SSSOOO 20th century. Like you still are fighting the cold war or something. MAybe it's becuase i grew up on Kung-fu movies, Chinese take out and went on a trip to China in 2003 that i just scratch my head when i hear about the "yellow peril" What are they gonna do? Invade Japan?


After they get going, Japan will likely just rollover and form and alliance with them out of necessity.


What natural resources do they have?


More than Japan ever did by far, not to mention that is going to figure significantly into who and where they invade and coerce.


Also China has Nukes and do we, you end up with MAD all over again.


MAD does not apply to same degree as it did during the Cold War. We will not go to nuclear war over third world asian nations and they know it.


Population problems? They got that shit under wraps. In 40 years their population will have actually shrunk by about 1/4th.


In your dreams. But even if you are correct that is 800million bodies.


They only really represent a Economic threat.


And what are they doing with that economic advantage?
Building a military.
Not to mention an industrial base, economy and infrastructure to support it..


AH but how can that be since they use "Obsolete" Communism?! Maybe it's becuase they really are'nt Communist at all any more, it's just that the Members of the Party dont want to give up power but they are now all Capitalist Jrs. And as far as China being Aggressive? WHEN? China has always been inner looking and xenophobic.


The world has changed a lot in the past century. It sure has for China. Underestimating them could be a fatal mistake. Will be, IMO.


Although they have interfered with local neighibors China has never invaded Russia or Europe or India historically. Only border brush wars.


They have attacked Russia(Soviet Union), Took Mongolia and Tibet for all intents and purposes, went to war with India in the past, and Viet Nam. What stopped them? They didn't have the economic, industrial and military strength necessary. Maybe you should give that a little thought.

Some people have the knowledge and wisdom to look forward and see events before they unfold, some are only able to see one foot in front of their nose.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 9:47:38 AM EDT


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By t-stox:
Why do i have this feeling that People who consider China to be a threat are over 30-35 years?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe because we have been around the block a few more times than you and have a fair understanding of where we have been and where we are heading.



Or maybe youre fighting "the last war" like all the old generals tend to do. People seem to forget how alliances change radically. For example in 1850-1900 The English were heading towards an alliance with France. But most of the Older Curmudgeons just could accept that fact and put off the alliance as long as possable. Why? Because France and England had been at war since 1066!! While at the same time England usually never went to war with Germany. If you told an old general that in the Twentieth century that France and England would be fast allies and that the "antagonists" would be Germany or Austria or Russia He'd say "poppycock old boy!"


After they get going, Japan will likely just rollover and form and alliance with them out of necessity.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What natural resources do they have?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More than Japan ever did by far, not to mention that is going to figure significantly into who and where they invade and coerce.


You misunderstand, i meant what resources do Japan have? They are mostly mountains and rock! Their only real resource is their man power and their trade. The Chinese could make more money just trading with them.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also China has Nukes and do we, you end up with MAD all over again.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MAD does not apply to same degree as it did during the Cold War. We will not go to nuclear war over third world asian nations and they know it.

Which Asian countries will that be? Also again most of them are resource poor jungles or deserts. China would be better off just developing them and becoming a "sphere of influence" country. ANd again even if they did invade for some reason that is in Asia, that really does'nt affect us so how would it "come to a head?" Again i state this is not the cold war with some "domino theory", Communism is shrinking not expanding. Maybe you should go to China, it's as modern as anywhere in Asia (except japan) they have whole heartidly embraced "free trade". The idea of Drab Communism with Gulags just does'nt bear any truth. Are they repressive? Yes but so are a lot of countries, does'nt mean WWIII.


Population problems? They got that shit under wraps. In 40 years their population will have actually shrunk by about 1/4th.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In your dreams. But even if you are correct that is 800million bodies.


I dont know if you've heard about it but they got this controversial program called the 1 child china policy? Families that have two children are taxed heavily, and having more than that can result in a literal forced abortion. After 60 years of that the population could be chopped in half. They are one of the few countries that grasps the concept that too many people could lead to a disaster in the fight for resources. They only have 5% of the worlds Arable land but 1 billion people. They HAVE to cut back or starve.


Although they have interfered with local neighibors China has never invaded Russia or Europe or India historically. Only border brush wars.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They have attacked Russia(Soviet Union), Took Mongolia and Tibet for all intents and purposes, went to war with India in the past, and Viet Nam. What stopped them? They didn't have the economic, industrial and military strength necessary. Maybe you should give that a little thought



LIke i said, all those so called conflicts were nothing but "border incidents" with a few shots by some border guards. Russian and china literally fought over a hill! India has the bomb, so we have MAD, Russia has the bomb so we have MAD, Tibet has for a lot of it's history been part of China anyway, They just reasserted themsleves, and THAT was 50 years ago, And Mongolia is NOT a Chinese sattalite, it is an idependant country. Prior to that it was a Soviet Client. They have a lot of trade with China for obvious reasons.
As to China being a "super power" well get used to it. For most of Mans history China has been the worlds sole superpower. China being a backward country that is in chaos is the exception to histroy rather than it's rule. The countires on the Horizon as a literal danger to America are from Pakistan to Egypt, you know that whole area. China has no intention of invading Peoria!
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 10:37:52 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2006 10:43:46 AM EDT by Zarathustra1]

Originally Posted By John_Wayne777:

Originally Posted By Zarathustra1:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:
More people died in 1945 than in any other year in human history.



BS.

During The Flood they all died except 2...



Noah, his wife, and his three sons and their wives were on the ark. That makes 8 people. Not two...



I was kidding man, you know, making fun of it...

Nobody does carnage like Yahweh the Jewish tribal God...
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 12:15:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Commando_Guy:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Why do i have this feeling that People who consider China to be a threat are over 30-35 years? That is SSSOOO 20th century. Also China has Nukes and do we, you end up with MAD all over again. They only really represent a Economic threat. AH but how can that be since they use "Obsolete" Communism?! Maybe it's becuase they really are'nt Communist at all any more, it's just that the Members of the Party dont want to give up power but they are now all Capitalist Jrs. And as far as China being Aggressive? WHEN? China has always been inner looking and xenophobic. Although they have interfered with local neighibors China has never invaded Russia or Europe or India historically. Only border brush wars.


You have more rose colored glasses that the rest of us 35+ year old fogies can wear? China wants to be the big dog. China need oil and steel. China's military budget has increased an officially acknowleged 17%+ annualy for the 10 years running. China tries to thwart us internationally at every turn. China'sgovernment has never dropped communism, and supports whackjob commies like Chavez, along with upstanding individuals like Iran's insano leader.

China and the US are going to have it out, probably within the next ten years.


Sometimes I wonder if China will do to us what we did to the Soviet Union: Outspend the opposition until the opposition crumbles under the economic weight.

Could happen.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 1:01:43 PM EDT
I vote "More Bloody."

The age of enlightenment has peaked, and is in decline. The world is heading toward a new feudalism where knowledge is scorned and tribal loyalties are the primary social bond.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 1:37:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Why do i have this feeling that People who consider China to be a threat are over 30-35 years? That is SSSOOO 20th century. Like you still are fighting the cold war or something. MAybe it's becuase i grew up on Kung-fu movies, Chinese take out and went on a trip to China in 2003 that i just scratch my head when i hear about the "yellow peril" What are they gonna do? Invade Japan? What natural resources do they have? Also China has Nukes and do we, you end up with MAD all over again. Population problems? They got that shit under wraps. In 40 years their population will have actually shrunk by about 1/4th. They only really represent a Economic threat. AH but how can that be since they use "Obsolete" Communism?! Maybe it's becuase they really are'nt Communist at all any more, it's just that the Members of the Party dont want to give up power but they are now all Capitalist Jrs. And as far as China being Aggressive? WHEN? China has always been inner looking and xenophobic. Although they have interfered with local neighibors China has never invaded Russia or Europe or India historically. Only border brush wars.



Or perhaps some of us are thinking this through a little more than you are.

Japan was never an imperialistic nation until the early 20th Century. We ignored the threat until it hit us at home. Japan increased her military might rapidly, much in the same way that China is currently doing so.

If China was so inward looking, what use would they have for the blue water navy they are attempting to construct. They currently have a capability mostly limited to littoral warfare, but that is changing. If China had no desire to project power around the world, she would have no need for the knowledge required to orbit a nuclear warhead, but guess what? They want it, and have it. China already has a sphere of influence in the Far East. They heavily influence the North Koreans, as well as the Vietnamese. They have talen Tibet, and for all intents and purposes Mongolia as well (as was pointed out earlier).

China has been making great strides towards becoming a world military power, and seeks to be the dominant power in the Far East again. China was once the cultural, technological, and military super power in the far east. Japan, and to some extent, South Korea have taken that role away from China, and China wants it back. China is first and foremost a dictatorship. What dictatorships require to keep the people in line is an external enemy (ie. the United States) so that the people are focused more on the external threat than they are on the abuses of their own government. Once an external threat disappears there is nothing that will keep the people from rebellion. MAD only works on nations that actually care about losing their people. The Chinese don't. That is the same situation that we face with Iran and N. Korea.

China has repeatedly engaged in saber rattling, threatening the United States with retalliation for any number of perceived offenses. China also threatened the US in regards to the Anti-Missile system that we are attempting to implement, saying that they would only work harder to develop nuclear missile delivery systems capable of defeating our defenses. That sounds like China has taken up an agressive military posture rather than the passive one that you suggest. China would have no need to defeat our defenses if they did not believe that a military encounter with the United States was not inevitable.

The United States and China will go to war against eachother at some point in this century. The only questions are when, where, what scale will the conflict escalate into, and what the catalyst for the collision will be. Don't think for one second that China will not get involved in a Conflict on the Korean penninsula, they have done it before.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 2:20:42 PM EDT
C'mon bud, learn to use the quotes properly.


Originally Posted By t-stox:


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Originally Posted By t-stox:
Why do i have this feeling that People who consider China to be a threat are over 30-35 years?
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Maybe because we have been around the block a few more times than you and have a fair understanding of where we have been and where we are heading.



Or maybe youre fighting "the last war" like all the old generals tend to do. People seem to forget how alliances change radically. For example in 1850-1900 The English were heading towards an alliance with France. But most of the Older Curmudgeons just could accept that fact and put off the alliance as long as possable. Why? Because France and England had been at war since 1066!! While at the same time England usually never went to war with Germany. If you told an old general that in the Twentieth century that France and England would be fast allies and that the "antagonists" would be Germany or Austria or Russia He'd say "poppycock old boy!"



Obviously you didn't read my first post. WWIII will be very different. You assume that it won't happen. Those that think so naively and simplistically have been proven wrong again, and again, and again.



After they get going, Japan will likely just rollover and form and alliance with them out of necessity.

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What natural resources do they have?
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More than Japan ever did by far, not to mention that is going to figure significantly into who and where they invade and coerce.


You misunderstand, i meant what resources do Japan have? They are mostly mountains and rock! Their only real resource is their man power and their trade. The Chinese could make more money just trading with them.



The exact point I made. Japan was a considerable threat to America with much more severe limitations. China will be far worse.




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Also China has Nukes and do we, you end up with MAD all over again.
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MAD does not apply to same degree as it did during the Cold War. We will not go to nuclear war over third world asian nations and they know it.

Which Asian countries will that be? Also again most of them are resource poor jungles or deserts. China would be better off just developing them and becoming a "sphere of influence" country. ANd again even if they did invade for some reason that is in Asia, that really does'nt affect us so how would it "come to a head?" Again i state this is not the cold war with some "domino theory", Communism is shrinking not expanding. Maybe you should go to China, it's as modern as anywhere in Asia (except japan) they have whole heartidly embraced "free trade". The idea of Drab Communism with Gulags just does'nt bear any truth. Are they repressive? Yes but so are a lot of countries, does'nt mean WWIII.



You equate trade and economic growth with a peaceful nation?
History abounds with lessons to the contrary. Nations don't make war when they are weak, they do so when they are strong.

You might think China would be better off developing other nations but they may well have a different view. You are correct that it will not be a "cold war". My thoughts exactly.



Population problems? They got that shit under wraps. In 40 years their population will have actually shrunk by about 1/4th.
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In your dreams. But even if you are correct that is 800million bodies.


I dont know if you've heard about it but they got this controversial program called the 1 child china policy? Families that have two children are taxed heavily, and having more than that can result in a literal forced abortion. After 60 years of that the population could be chopped in half. They are one of the few countries that grasps the concept that too many people could lead to a disaster in the fight for resources. They only have 5% of the worlds Arable land but 1 billion people. They HAVE to cut back or starve.



Yeah, right.
And I have heard of the policy. Been going on for awhile now. During it China's population has continued to grow though rate of growth has dropped off. 1.3bil now. Since the pop has continued to grwo what does that tell you?
And I also hold that you ain't got 60 years, bub.

And there is an alternative to cut back or starve: Expand.
I doubt they are at any risk of starvation anytime soon, in any event. Communism has been a greater risk to them in that regard than pop growth.

1.3 billion. When they started this one child policy they had a lot less.



Although they have interfered with local neighibors China has never invaded Russia or Europe or India historically. Only border brush wars.
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They have attacked Russia(Soviet Union), Took Mongolia and Tibet for all intents and purposes, went to war with India in the past, and Viet Nam. What stopped them? They didn't have the economic, industrial and military strength necessary. Maybe you should give that a little thought



LIke i said, all those so called conflicts were nothing but "border incidents" with a few shots by some border guards. Russian and china literally fought over a hill! India has the bomb, so we have MAD, Russia has the bomb so we have MAD, Tibet has for a lot of it's history been part of China anyway, They just reasserted themsleves, and THAT was 50 years ago, And Mongolia is NOT a Chinese sattalite, it is an idependant country. Prior to that it was a Soviet Client. They have a lot of trade with China for obvious reasons.
As to China being a "super power" well get used to it. For most of Mans history China has been the worlds sole superpower. China being a backward country that is in chaos is the exception to histroy rather than it's rule. The countires on the Horizon as a literal danger to America are from Pakistan to Egypt, you know that whole area. China has no intention of invading Peoria!



Mongolia is very definitely influenced by China.
All of those "border incidents" remained so as Mao knew he didn't have the mil/industrial/economic might to follow thru. That clearly is changing. Once again, as I already noted.

"Get used to it"?
Figured you for a 5th Columnist quite awhile ago. You're not very good at it but there are some who are and they are placing our entire nation at risk.

And no I do not think China will be in any position to invade the US for quite sometime but I have already said that many times. You unfortunately are stuck in your polyannish socialist fantsy world so you must dredge up red herrings and bullshit such as this to make your argument.
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