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Posted: 3/12/2006 7:51:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 7:54:42 PM EDT by NeoCon007]
My friend, Officer Matt, is a state trooper. He responds to an officer needing backup today. When he arrives on the scene, he sees an apparently crazed 17 year old throw a hammer through the passenger side window of the other Officer's car. The BG is still carrying an axe in his other hand and Officer Matt tells him to drop it. Instead, the BG starts walking toward Officer Matt with axe raised. Officer Matt then stops the baddie with one shot to the thigh.

I thought this was extremely merciful on the part of Officer Matt as clearly he would have been justified in killing the maniac. I'm just glad my good friend is OK.

I will update as more details come in.

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:52:00 PM EDT
Way to go Officer Matt
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:55:34 PM EDT
WTF no video with music????!!!
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:56:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 7:56:54 PM EDT by cmjohnson]
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:57:53 PM EDT
It all happened so fast they forgot to shoot a dog,so they ranover one on the way back to the station.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:58:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
WTF no video with music????!!!





was thinking the same!
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:58:27 PM EDT
If this is how it really went down, he should have shot COM until he was down. That shot to the thigh may have just pissed him off if he was doped up, and resulted in some really bad shit happening to Officer Matt.

I would be interested in knowing if "Officer Matt" had some sort of clue that shooting him in the thigh would stop the guy, and what that clue might have been. Pretty interesting use of individual judgement.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:59:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By www-glock19-com:
WTF no video with music????!!!



I'm going to ask him if I can have the dash cam video after he's cleared. Since we're here in the South it will be set to "Country Boy Can Survive."
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:01:28 PM EDT
Why didn't the officer he was responding to for backup shoot him? I'm just curious, not armchair quarterbacking.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:03:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheKill:
If this is how it really went down, he should have shot COM until he was down. That shot to the thigh may have just pissed him off if he was doped up, and resulted in some really bad shit happening to Officer Matt.

I would be interested in knowing if "Officer Matt" had some sort of clue that shooting him in the thigh would stop the guy, and what that clue might have been. Pretty interesting use of individual judgement.





Officer Matt is also a member of the National Guard and served a year in Iraq. He has combat experience, and I'm sure knew exactly what to do in this situation.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:13:00 PM EDT
http://www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=4621627



Check it out.

Looks like Matt had an axe thrown at him also.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:15:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 8:16:36 PM EDT by 22bad]
Arkansas Trooper Shoots Teen After Attempted Attack
Posted by Heather Shaneyfelt
www.wreg.com/Global/story.asp?S=4621627
Crittenden County, Arkansas- A 17-year-old Arkansas teen is recovering at a Memphis hospital after being shot by an Arkansas State Trooper. The incident happened Sunday morning when authorities responded to a domestic disturbance on Beck Road in Crittenden County.

Investigators say the 17-year-old attacked a State Trooper and a Crittenden County Sheriff's deputy with a hammer and ax. They say he tossed one hammer through the deputies car window. Then through (?) threw another at Trooper Matt Roberson as he exited his car. Investigators say when the teen took a swing at Roberson with his ax and that's when he shot the teen in the thigh. A prosecutor is looking over the case to determine what charges to file.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:20:06 PM EDT
http://www.wmcstations.com/Global/story.asp?S=4621278



Here's one with more details.

He used a .45. I wonder if the maniac's leg will have to come off?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:22:19 PM EDT
Glad to hear your friend is OK.

I understand that shooting people can be an emotionally traumatic experience for some. I think part of the reason is that it’s hard to say just what emotions are actually appropriate for the situation.

Your friend had to do a dirty task; its not one that anyone should really feel good about having to do. But, he didn’t freeze up and preformed well under pressure. So he’s justified in feeling some satisfaction about that. And the world is probably a little safer today because an axe wielding maniac has a hole in his leg, so he can feel good about that too.

If someone intentionally jumps off a cliff then gravity isn’t to blame for his injuries. And, if some fool decides to attack a law officer, then the officer isn’t to blame for what happens next either. All the moral responsibility for the shooting is on the criminal.

Tell your friend I said thanks for being there and thanks for being willing and able to do his job when it became necessary.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:22:48 PM EDT
Good on your buddy Matt. Heather the reporter needs a good editor who won't allow her to file until her work has been thoroughly proofread.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:23:03 PM EDT
Zombie attack.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:23:43 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 8:35:37 PM EDT by Polydude]
Good job. I'd still be shooting. I HATE maniacs with sharp objects.

I'll check back later for the guys defending the axe wielder and the inevitible "when they come for our axes" argument.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:23:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 8:24:33 PM EDT by 22bad]
Youth wounded after attacking trooper, state police say
www.wmcstations.com/Global/story.asp?S=4621278
SHEARERVILLE, Ark. State police say a 17-year-old Shearerville youth is hospitalized at Memphis, Tennessee, after he was wounded today when he was shot by a state trooper. A news release said the youth -- who wasn't named because of his age -- was shot after he attacked the officer and a Crittenden County sheriff's deputy with a hammer and an ax.

According to a news release, the shooting occurred after Trooper Matt Roberson responded about ten-30 a-m to a radio call from the Crittenden County sheriff's office seeking assistance for a deputy. The deputy was responding to a domestic-disturbance call at Shearerville, about 15 miles west of West Memphis.

The release said that, as Roberson arrived, he saw the juvenile standing in the middle of the road holding an ax as he picked up a hammer from the road. According to the release, the teen had already thrown a hammer through the driver's side window of the deputy's patrol car.

The release said the second hammer was thrown at Roberson as he got out of his patrol car, and the youth then swung the ax, hitting the hood of Roberson's patrol car and inflicting a four-inch-long on the car's hood. Police said Roberson ordered the youth to drop the ax, but the youth instead held the ax in a position indicating he was prepared to swing the ax at the trooper as he moved toward the officer.

The release said that, after another warning to drop the ax, Roberson fired his .45-caliber service weapon twice, wounding the youth once in the right thigh. The juvenile was taken to a Memphis hospital, state police said.

The agency said the shooting would be reviewed and the results submitted to Prosecutor Brent Davis, who will determine if it was justified and if any charge will be filed against the youth.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:36:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 8:46:11 PM EDT by METT-T]
Attempt at a pelvic girdle shot? I'm not on the "COM or nothing" wagon. If the officer on scene makes a judgement call and wants to attempt to shoot to wound, that's his perogative. It's his ass, after all. This officer decided to take a chance, and it paid off for him. Now he doesn't have to live with having killed a 17 year old, and the kid gets a second go at life. Good job, Officer Matt.

That having been said, I probably would have gone COM. It's much easier to effectively throw an ax than a knife, and the guy was already chucking stuff around. ETA: thought the guy was further away. If he was within swinging distance or just outside, it was definitely a ballsy move to shoot him in the thigh.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:41:11 PM EDT
I find it difficult to throw an axe at short range, unless I want to hit something with the handle
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:41:31 PM EDT
Yeah, but how is the baddie's dog??
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:47:08 PM EDT
Somebody buy that man a beer. Good job!
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:52:36 PM EDT
I don't know how you were trained, so I cannot judge.
A man with a AXE twoard a trooper.
A shoot in the thigh?
Yes it took out he threat. but in that sit. CFM (center of mass shooting) was better.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:04:23 PM EDT
Buy the man a Milk and Kudos for not ending the life of a young idiot.
Sleep well tonight officer Matt!!!
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:07:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:09:25 PM EDT
My prayers are with Officer Matt... even if he shot and only wounded, he will still carry that with him for the rest of his life. He is a GREAT man for putting his life on the line.

Thanks officer Matt!!
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:09:40 PM EDT
What level is Officer Matt? What did Matt roll to win initiative? What's his armor class?

How many hit points of damage did the Maniac take? What was his treasure type? Did he have a lot of treasure?

Did a Cleric arrive to caste "cure serious wounds" on the Maniac?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:10:06 PM EDT
Glad he (your friend) is ok. But the shot should have been to COM, not the thigh, if that is indeed where the shot was intended to go. The arm, leg and head are difficult places to hit at best. Flinch a little bit and the bad guy has nothing but a scratch which will require another shot, "if" you have the time.

He fired twice, hitting the kid in the leg once. MMQB'ing here, sounds like it was not an intentional hit to the thigh, especially at what sounds like very close range.

The idiot politician from NY will jump all over this. He wants it to be a law that a LEO must not shoot COM if he can shoot him someplace else first. Deadly force is deadly force.

Being a member of the NG or any other branch of the military and serving in Iraq has no bearing in this situation.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:11:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 9:14:14 PM EDT by DasRonin]
The problem with the "humane" shoot to wound by shooting in the thigh...

is that pesky femoral artery.

I trained LEOs for the better part of my career. At one time we had a qual course which required the LEO to kneel, draw, and fire, two shots in three seconds. The majority of the LEOs swept their thigh as the handgun moved from holster to threat (target). I cautioned them often to no avail. Their focus was not safety, but making the shots before the target turned.

I changed my caution to include the fact that they most likely swept their femoral artery. I advised them it was near the size of their thumb and that if they shot themself and hit that area... it was likely that there was not anything I could do to prevent them from bleeding to death before medical help could arrive.

Several years ago in Springfield, MO, a city cop was hit in the femoral during a stand off that turned into a firefight. EMT and paramedics were on the scene as it looked like that was going to result in a shoot out, from the git-go. Anyway, after hit, he had help immediately on the spot. As they drug him out of the line of fire almost the instant he was hit, there was a swath of blood at least a foot wide left as he was dragged to medical care. With the paramedics and EMTs on the scene, they were barely able to save his life because of the great blood loss in the short time between hit and dragged to medics. They were immediately on him working.

I personally worried more about a hit in that area than a center mass hit. Center mass would be a major problem... but a hit in the femoral would be a quick ticket to the morgue!

"Trick" shots are better left for TV and the movies.

"I shot him in the leg to stop him and to wound him rather than shooting center mass, which many see as shoot to kill"

"But officer, is it not a fact you hit his femoral artery and you in effect DID shoot to kill? Then you watched him bleed to death before an ambulance could arrive. Is it not common for those shot center mass to actually survive and be transport for emergency surgery? SO are you saying you cut him some slack by not shooting center mass? Please explain to the jury and his family how you used less than lethal force? ...or did you aim for the femoral artery, and let him bleed to death?"

LEOs shoot to stop! This is best done in MOST cases CENTER MASS, because of the size of the area to aim for. Head shots (actually very hard to make for real) and pelvic girdle shots have valid points. Trick shots and shooting to wound are hazardous practices for SO many reasons!!!
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:13:19 PM EDT
Hope he enjoys his civil suit and lifelong payments to cover the cost of the physical damage caused by wounding someone who should be dead.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:15:32 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:40:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:
Hope he enjoys his civil suit and lifelong payments to cover the cost of the physical damage caused by wounding someone who should be dead.



That is the first thing I thought. I bet the perps family sues him after all this is settled criminally. He did the right thing morally, and the result was a 17-year old is still alive. He did not, however, do the right thing from a practical liability standpoint - our legal system is fucked up.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:42:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DasRonin:
The problem with the "humane" shoot to wound by shooting in the thigh...

is that pesky femoral artery.

I trained LEOs for the better part of my career. At one time we had a qual course which required the LEO to kneel, draw, and fire, two shots in three seconds. The majority of the LEOs swept their thigh as the handgun moved from holster to threat (target). I cautioned them often to no avail. Their focus was not safety, but making the shots before the target turned.

I changed my caution to include the fact that they most likely swept their femoral artery. I advised them it was near the size of their thumb and that if they shot themself and hit that area... it was likely that there was not anything I could do to prevent them from bleeding to death before medical help could arrive.

Several years ago in Springfield, MO, a city cop was hit in the femoral during a stand off that turned into a firefight. EMT and paramedics were on the scene as it looked like that was going to result in a shoot out, from the git-go. Anyway, after hit, he had help immediately on the spot. As they drug him out of the line of fire almost the instant he was hit, there was a swath of blood at least a foot wide left as he was dragged to medical care. With the paramedics and EMTs on the scene, they were barely able to save his life because of the great blood loss in the short time between hit and dragged to medics. They were immediately on him working.

I personally worried more about a hit in that area than a center mass hit. Center mass would be a major problem... but a hit in the femoral would be a quick ticket to the morgue!

...

People are too damn afraid to use a tourniquet. Pop a tourniquet on him and get him to an ER! We lost a lot of soldiers in OIF 1 that could have lived if medics hadn't been conditioned to be so afraid of tourniquets.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:58:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Originally Posted By DasRonin:
The problem with the "humane" shoot to wound by shooting in the thigh...

is that pesky femoral artery....

***************

People are too damn afraid to use a tourniquet. Pop a tourniquet on him and get him to an ER! We lost a lot of soldiers in OIF 1 that could have lived if medics hadn't been conditioned to be so afraid of tourniquets.



Ya gotta have one to use one. Very few first aid kits have a tourniquet. I have not seen one in any LEO first aid kit I have seen in use. I am sure that is what was used by medics in Springfield to save that officer. I doubt that many first responder kits have tourniquets. Very few LEOs are trained in how to make a field expedient tourniquet. LEO first aid training is nothing like military first aid training. In many ways I learned more in Army basic related to all this, then in a number of training sessions on LEO first aid over my career.

My personal kit has a tourniquet, QuikClot, and an Asherman dressing. I have the related training in the use also. HOWEVER, I could not convince management to provide a proper first aid kit for range use. They did not want to spend the money a good kit would cost. They saw it as something expensive that would never get used. They finally got QuikClot first aid kits to keep in cars... but would not buy an extra to keep in my range.

There is typically a world of difference between a civilian/LEO first aid kit and a military first aid kit. Most cities/agencies are not willing to accept the liability of providing tourniquet or training related to tourniquets. Liability issues scare cities/agencies with the higher probality of losing a limb to save a life. Sadly they can accept a lost life better than a law suit of a lost limb from a tourniquet!
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:02:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
It all happened so fast they forgot to shoot a dog,so they ranover one on the way back to the station.


Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:04:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cmjohnson:
Were there any dogs involved?

CJ



I just can't get enough of this joke. I'm so glad it's in every single cop-related thread!!!!11

Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:10:58 AM EDT
Good for him. I wouldn't have shot him in the thigh.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:15:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DasRonin:

Originally Posted By Adam_White:
Originally Posted By DasRonin:
The problem with the "humane" shoot to wound by shooting in the thigh...

is that pesky femoral artery....

***************

People are too damn afraid to use a tourniquet. Pop a tourniquet on him and get him to an ER! We lost a lot of soldiers in OIF 1 that could have lived if medics hadn't been conditioned to be so afraid of tourniquets.



Ya gotta have one to use one. Very few first aid kits have a tourniquet. I have not seen one in any LEO first aid kit I have seen in use. I am sure that is what was used by medics in Springfield to save that officer. I doubt that many first responder kits have tourniquets. Very few LEOs are trained in how to make a field expedient tourniquet. LEO first aid training is nothing like military first aid training. In many ways I learned more in Army basic related to all this, then in a number of training sessions on LEO first aid over my career.

My personal kit has a tourniquet, QuikClot, and an Asherman dressing. I have the related training in the use also. HOWEVER, I could not convince management to provide a proper first aid kit for range use. They did not want to spend the money a good kit would cost. They saw it as something expensive that would never get used. They finally got QuikClot first aid kits to keep in cars... but would not buy an extra to keep in my range.

There is typically a world of difference between a civilian/LEO first aid kit and a military first aid kit. Most cities/agencies are not willing to accept the liability of providing tourniquet or training related to tourniquets. Liability issues scare cities/agencies with the higher probality of losing a limb to save a life. Sadly they can accept a lost life better than a law suit of a lost limb from a tourniquet!



For a bleeder like that I would be inclined to apply MAST trousers (I know that's redudnant) to act as a pressure dressing and to maintain BP.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:18:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
I find it difficult to throw an axe at short range, unless I want to hit something with the handle



You need hours and hours of practice to really know your ax and be able to decide the ammount of force to use. A hard fast throw with many rotations vs a slower throw.

Psywar, former junior Hawk and Knife champ
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:21:50 AM EDT
These things happen!
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:22:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoCon007:
My friend, Officer Matt, is a state trooper. He responds to an officer needing backup today. When he arrives on the scene, he sees an apparently crazed 17 year old throw a hammer through the passenger side window of the other Officer's car. The BG is still carrying an axe in his other hand and Officer Matt tells him to drop it. Instead, the BG starts walking toward Officer Matt with axe raised. Officer Matt then stops the baddie with one shot to the thigh.

I thought this was extremely merciful on the part of Officer Matt as clearly he would have been justified in killing the maniac. I'm just glad my good friend is OK.

I will update as more details come in.



thats some good heads up shooting inthe heat of battle
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:33:11 AM EDT
Maybe he was aiming for COM ........ and missed!

Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:35:54 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:36:21 AM EDT
I'm glad both officers survived. The hitting the guy in the thigh may or may not have been onpurpose.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 8:37:20 AM EDT
<----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:01:32 AM EDT
Hes going to get sued for intentional maiming if the maniacs lawyer is any good.

Deadly force is deadly force, so you might as well get your moneys worth and hit him in the noddle. Though for all I know, he may have just missed.

I would avoid giving any medical help to a criminal I just shot, unless I was trained and am expected to provide assistance. Besides, criminals who bleed out dont hire lawyers. Their families do, but there usualy isant much left to support their side.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:01:33 AM EDT
It'll be interesting to see how they try to sue him and.or the department for shooting the asshat.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:08:56 AM EDT
Wonder if the thigh shot was a miss at COM? I personally would have preferred the officer to shoot COM, as this shoot may add fuel to that idiot from NY's fire to require cops to "shoot to wound". Kinda like, "see, that trooper in AR shot that deranged kid in the thigh, everbody lived, and now the deranged kid can get all the social program help he needs at state expense!" If the situation is bad enough to warrant deadly force, USE DEADLY FORCE!

Glad the officers are OK!
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 10:55:06 AM EDT
<---------


Originally Posted By Matthew_Q:
Yeah, but how is the baddie's dog??



Im good, thanks.

Link Posted: 3/13/2006 11:11:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By NeoCon007:

Originally Posted By TheKill:
If this is how it really went down, he should have shot COM until he was down. That shot to the thigh may have just pissed him off if he was doped up, and resulted in some really bad shit happening to Officer Matt.

I would be interested in knowing if "Officer Matt" had some sort of clue that shooting him in the thigh would stop the guy, and what that clue might have been. Pretty interesting use of individual judgement.





Officer Matt is also a member of the National Guard and served a year in Iraq. He has combat experience, and I'm sure knew exactly what to do in this situation.



I'm not sure if it's the same thing killer... In the military you don't shoot to wound, and when I was deployed I never ran across any axe weilding maniacs...
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 9:25:42 PM EDT
He was an LEO on duty. Among other things in most states sovereign immunity and/or the agency insurance will more than take care of any civil suit issues.

Probably getting the fuck out of the way and got a good hit while moving.

BTW a femoral hit of any kind is going to be real dificult to keep from bleeding out. If you can't stop with direct pressure, ie sticking your finger in it, you generally aren't going to have time to wait for any help.
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