Quoted: A souped - up turd is still a turd. Bye Bye. SG

Dont be too hard on those GM products.

So you dont believe it will hurt more americans if a US automaker goes out of business?


Simple question:   Do you give a damn about americans having jobs or dont really care?

Quoted: Quoted: Thank you Toyota lovers ( among others) for doing your part to destroy our economy.   You're welcome. Here have a pacifier--->

No kidding.

I wonder what prices would be here in the States if there were no JBUT's (unions) driving them up. I love how only the consumer is to blame.

The conusmer is the one getting screwed. Not the CEO's, not the JBUT's (unions), not the employee's, but the consumer.

With out our dollars nothing happens, or everything could happen.

Quoted: So you dont believe it will hurt more americans if a US automaker goes out of business? Simple question:   Do you give a damn about americans having jobs or dont really care?

Americans are causing their own problems!!! I think someone else has drank more than 1911 Kool-Aid

Quoted: So you dont believe it will hurt more americans if a US automaker goes out of business? Simple question:   Do you give a damn about americans having jobs or dont really care?

Do you have any Japanese or Chinese  made items in your house ?

To all the Ford haters, I know none of the Dodge and Chevy pickup boys will line up with me at a light anymore where I live (even the 2 Dodge SRT-10 trucks Ive OWNED in these parts).  But then again, I think my Ford "POS" pickup is the only 11 second truck in town, lol.  My '03 SVT Lightning ran a 13.52 BONE STOCK (down to paper filter) and with $1100 in chip, pulley and filter, and tune, broke well into the 12 second zone.  All 4700 beautiful pounds of it.   Throw a KB on, traction bars and slicks, and you make Corvette's look silly trying to catch you as you clip off 11 second 1/4 mile passes.  JLP up in PA broke a sub 10 second time, but in all honesty, his engine has very few stock components on it.  But there are a LOT of 10-11 second street driven Lightnings out there, all that can tow their opponents home after handing their ass to them on a silver platter.

Ive owned a few SVT products (2 Cobra's and my L) and all have been well built and trouble free...........and fast.  They hold there value exceptionally well.  My truck is 3 years old and I get offers all the time for only 6-7 grand less than what I paid for it (and backed up by the online blue book prices).

But I knew SVT was in a death spiral when Joe "Godfather" Colletti left last year, it was only a matter of time.  I didnt read the whole article, but does that mean that the SUV "Adrenaline" has been scratched?  It was supposed to be a 4WD with the '03-'04 Cobra powerplant (390 HP, 390 TQ, both underrated, forged internals - one of the best US production engines in the last 5 years).

So go ahead and buy chinese knockoffs too, screw the american companies and their employees.   After all it's all about giving the consumer the everything.      

You'll want that pacifier yourself when your job is gone.  

I only buy Japanese or Chinese stuff when I cannot find an american product or just didnt notice.  

Btw, I did own a Toyota once.   A 95 Taco, sold it and havent looked back.

Quoted: Simple question:   Do you give a damn about americans having jobs or dont really care?

A better question:

Did you know that Toyota is expanding it's US workforce to meet demand?





Wonder if that means that Americans, in the US, have jobs due to other Americans continuing to buy Toyotas?  Think hard now.

Quoted: To all the Ford haters, I know none of the Dodge and Chevy pickup boys will line up with me at a light anymore where I live (even they 2 Dodge SRT-10 trucks Ive OWNED in these parts).  But then again, I think my Ford "POS" pickup is the only 11 second truck in town, lol.   Ive owned a few SVT products and all have been well built and trouble free...........and fast.  They hold there value exceptionally well.  My truck is 3 years old and I get offers all the time for only 6-7 grand less than what I paid for it (and backed up by the online blue book prices). But I knew SVT was in a death spiral when Joe "Godfather" Colletti left last year, it was only a matter of time.  I didnt read the whole article, but does that mean that the SUV "Adrenaline" has been scratched?  It was supposed to be a 4WD with the '03-'04 Cobra powerplant (390 HP, 390 TQ, both underrated, forged internals - one of the best US production engines in the last 5 years).

Not that I own a pick up, but I quit doing that after high school

Quoted: You'll want that pacifier yourself when your job is gone.

Short of DoD going under, my job is safe.

Only an idiot would hinge their job security to a sinking ship.

Quoted: Quoted: To all the Ford haters, I know none of the Dodge and Chevy pickup boys will line up with me at a light anymore where I live (even they 2 Dodge SRT-10 trucks Ive OWNED in these parts).  But then again, I think my Ford "POS" pickup is the only 11 second truck in town, lol.   Ive owned a few SVT products and all have been well built and trouble free...........and fast.  They hold there value exceptionally well.  My truck is 3 years old and I get offers all the time for only 6-7 grand less than what I paid for it (and backed up by the online blue book prices). But I knew SVT was in a death spiral when Joe "Godfather" Colletti left last year, it was only a matter of time.  I didnt read the whole article, but does that mean that the SUV "Adrenaline" has been scratched?  It was supposed to be a 4WD with the '03-'04 Cobra powerplant (390 HP, 390 TQ, both underrated, forged internals - one of the best US production engines in the last 5 years). Not that I own a pick up, but I quit doing that after high school

Well, there are a lot of us 20-50 somethings that still go to the track in Valdosta occasionally.  Maybe I should have quantified "Tree" instead of using the word "Light".  

But on the street while I dont weave in and out of traffic and race in traffic, have I ever lined up on a country road with a Hemi next to me that throws me some revs?  You bet I have.  Some big ole fun.   Do I play with Lincoln logs and video games?  Nope.  But I do still have an affinity for college girls.................

While Im in my 30's, its pretty safe to say that I may be doing it when Im 60.

Quoted: Quoted: You'll want that pacifier yourself when your job is gone.   Short of DoD going under, my job is safe. Only an idiot would hinge their job security to a sinking ship.

I live in SE Michigan...right in the middle of it all. The big three, well two, all have headquarters, plants, all of it, within 15 minutes of me in either direction. Up and down every road there are union halls, dealers, etc....

I can not believe so many people are holding on...5 thousand jobs on week, 30 thosand another week...

In a sad way, the whole US Autoworker reminds me of the welfare system in a way.

Might be just a ploy to get some free publicity....

Quoted: Quoted: To all the Ford haters, I know none of the Dodge and Chevy pickup boys will line up with me at a light anymore where I live (even they 2 Dodge SRT-10 trucks Ive OWNED in these parts).  But then again, I think my Ford "POS" pickup is the only 11 second truck in town, lol.   Ive owned a few SVT products and all have been well built and trouble free...........and fast.  They hold there value exceptionally well.  My truck is 3 years old and I get offers all the time for only 6-7 grand less than what I paid for it (and backed up by the online blue book prices). But I knew SVT was in a death spiral when Joe "Godfather" Colletti left last year, it was only a matter of time.  I didnt read the whole article, but does that mean that the SUV "Adrenaline" has been scratched?  It was supposed to be a 4WD with the '03-'04 Cobra powerplant (390 HP, 390 TQ, both underrated, forged internals - one of the best US production engines in the last 5 years). Not that I own a pick up, but I quit doing that after high school

Different strokes for different folks.  You can crap all over someone else's interests if you like but the same can be said about ANY hobby, black rifle disease included.

For example, I couldn't give a shit about watching pro sports on TV.  That doesn't make me "better" in any way than someone who does enjoy it.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: To all the Ford haters, I know none of the Dodge and Chevy pickup boys will line up with me at a light anymore where I live (even they 2 Dodge SRT-10 trucks Ive OWNED in these parts).  But then again, I think my Ford "POS" pickup is the only 11 second truck in town, lol.   Ive owned a few SVT products and all have been well built and trouble free...........and fast.  They hold there value exceptionally well.  My truck is 3 years old and I get offers all the time for only 6-7 grand less than what I paid for it (and backed up by the online blue book prices). But I knew SVT was in a death spiral when Joe "Godfather" Colletti left last year, it was only a matter of time.  I didnt read the whole article, but does that mean that the SUV "Adrenaline" has been scratched?  It was supposed to be a 4WD with the '03-'04 Cobra powerplant (390 HP, 390 TQ, both underrated, forged internals - one of the best US production engines in the last 5 years). Not that I own a pick up, but I quit doing that after high school Different strokes for different folks.  You can crap all over someone else's interests if you like but the same can be said about ANY hobby, black rifle disease included. For example, I couldn't give a shit about watching pro sports on TV.  That doesn't make me "better" in any way than someone who does enjoy it.

Ok, noted. Didn't know racing was his hobby until he corrected himself later, after my post.

Thanks.

Quoted: To all the Ford haters, I know none of the Dodge and Chevy pickup boys will line up with me at a light anymore where I live (even the 2 Dodge SRT-10 trucks Ive OWNED in these parts).  But then again, I think my Ford "POS" pickup is the only 11 second truck in town, lol.  My '03 SVT Lightning ran a 13.52 BONE STOCK (down to paper filter) and with $1100 in chip, pulley and filter, and tune, broke well into the 12 second zone.  All 4700 beautiful pounds of it.   Throw a KB on, traction bars and slicks, and you make Corvette's look silly trying to catch you as you clip off 11 second 1/4 mile passes.  JLP up in PA broke a sub 10 second time, but in all honesty, his engine has very few stock components on it.  But there are a LOT of 10-11 second street driven Lightnings out there, all that can tow their opponents home after handing their ass to them on a silver platter. Ive owned a few SVT products (2 Cobra's and my L) and all have been well built and trouble free...........and fast.  They hold there value exceptionally well.  My truck is 3 years old and I get offers all the time for only 6-7 grand less than what I paid for it (and backed up by the online blue book prices). But I knew SVT was in a death spiral when Joe "Godfather" Colletti left last year, it was only a matter of time.  I didnt read the whole article, but does that mean that the SUV "Adrenaline" has been scratched?  It was supposed to be a 4WD with the '03-'04 Cobra powerplant (390 HP, 390 TQ, both underrated, forged internals - one of the best US production engines in the last 5 years).

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: To all the Ford haters, I know none of the Dodge and Chevy pickup boys will line up with me at a light anymore where I live (even they 2 Dodge SRT-10 trucks Ive OWNED in these parts).  But then again, I think my Ford "POS" pickup is the only 11 second truck in town, lol.   Ive owned a few SVT products and all have been well built and trouble free...........and fast.  They hold there value exceptionally well.  My truck is 3 years old and I get offers all the time for only 6-7 grand less than what I paid for it (and backed up by the online blue book prices). But I knew SVT was in a death spiral when Joe "Godfather" Colletti left last year, it was only a matter of time.  I didnt read the whole article, but does that mean that the SUV "Adrenaline" has been scratched?  It was supposed to be a 4WD with the '03-'04 Cobra powerplant (390 HP, 390 TQ, both underrated, forged internals - one of the best US production engines in the last 5 years). Not that I own a pick up, but I quit doing that after high school Different strokes for different folks.  You can crap all over someone else's interests if you like but the same can be said about ANY hobby, black rifle disease included. For example, I couldn't give a shit about watching pro sports on TV.  That doesn't make me "better" in any way than someone who does enjoy it. Ok, noted. Didn't know racing was his hobby until he corrected himself later, after my post. Thanks.

Yeah, but I also edited it to say yes, I have lined up on some rural roads as well and run 'em.  Its different on private / rural roads - I dont race in traffic.  The asshats that I usually see street racing and are endangering the public are usually 138 HP Honda's with big wings on the back (dont even get me started on the whole Ricer thing).  But then again, different strokes for different folks.  On a private drive down in the holler, its a whole different thing.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: To all the Ford haters, I know none of the Dodge and Chevy pickup boys will line up with me at a light anymore where I live (even they 2 Dodge SRT-10 trucks Ive OWNED in these parts).  But then again, I think my Ford "POS" pickup is the only 11 second truck in town, lol.   Ive owned a few SVT products and all have been well built and trouble free...........and fast.  They hold there value exceptionally well.  My truck is 3 years old and I get offers all the time for only 6-7 grand less than what I paid for it (and backed up by the online blue book prices). But I knew SVT was in a death spiral when Joe "Godfather" Colletti left last year, it was only a matter of time.  I didnt read the whole article, but does that mean that the SUV "Adrenaline" has been scratched?  It was supposed to be a 4WD with the '03-'04 Cobra powerplant (390 HP, 390 TQ, both underrated, forged internals - one of the best US production engines in the last 5 years). Not that I own a pick up, but I quit doing that after high school Different strokes for different folks.  You can crap all over someone else's interests if you like but the same can be said about ANY hobby, black rifle disease included. For example, I couldn't give a shit about watching pro sports on TV.  That doesn't make me "better" in any way than someone who does enjoy it. Ok, noted. Didn't know racing was his hobby until he corrected himself later, after my post. Thanks. Yeah, but I also edited it to say yes, I have lined up on some rural roads as well and run 'em.  Its different on private / rural roads - I dont race in traffic.  The asshats that I usually see street racing and are endangering the public are usually 138 HP Honda's with big wings on the back (dont even get me started on the whole Ricer thing).  But then again, different strokes for different folks.  On a private drive down in the holler, its a whole different thing.

I never changed my post...So it still stands

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nah.. GM is, and will stay #1... +1 GM is and will stay number 1, until Toyota takes the title that is. And when the US is no longer a major power in the world you can blame the people who gladly support foreign companies to the detriment of american companies and workers. Thank you Toyota lovers ( among others) for doing your part to destroy our economy.

It's called "free-market capitalism" my friend.  When companies no longer provide the goods/quality/service that the consumer demands, the consumer takes their business elsewhere.  I am not going to spend $1-5,000 more on an inferior product, just because it is made in the United States.  The funny thing is, Toyota makes cars in the US, and GM makes a great deal of them in Mexico and Canada.  Who is really supporting the American worker at the dealership?  

The car manufacturers have done it to themselves.  They rested on their laurels, allowed their quality, design, performance, and pricing to slip all while the Japanese (and now Korean) car companies played catch-up.  They are in danger of being surpassed by a superior product because they stopped listening to the consumer and started manufacturing crap.

Do I wish failure on them?  No.  But it is about time that they woke up and smelled the coffee.  They're no longer number one, and they will slip even farther if they don't do some serious work attempting to catch up.  This is something that they are finally starting to do (thank God), but it is going to take a while.  They never should have allowed themselves to slip to the point where they are.  It is their fault (along with the trade unions) that auto workers are losing their jobs at such an alarming rate.  They spent well beyond their means.  The situation that we are currently seeing is simply the market doing what is natural, it is correcting the imbalance.

Now my advice to you is to put down the Kool-Aid, do some homework, study some basic economics and see that it is really Ford, GM, and Chrysler doing it to themselves.

I'm no Toyota fan, I'd rather not drive a Honda, in fact I hate rice burners.  However, a used Honda Accord or Civic will probably be my first car of my own because I can't afford an American car, or the monthly trips to the dealership for repairs.  The American companies are catching up, but I am personally forced to purchase an older car do to cost, and a comparable American car would be a Malibu or a Cavalier, neither of which am I willing to trust my life to.  Because of their past troubles, and massive numbers of lemons and recalls, the American companies have earned their reputation for spotty reliablity.  It is going to take a long time for them to regain their former prestige (if it is even possible).

Any sig to 4-1? or April Fool's Day for this memo?

>>>>>><<<<<<<<

I find it a shame if this is true. While I have zero interest in the focus (or any mfg's compact) I always found the lightning and cobra interesting cars. It just seems as though the American muscle car is dead. I remember when I was about the start of driving age, everyone wanted a mustang/camaro/chevelle. Not any more. I hear civics, and acuras etc. While I am a Ford guy, I'd hate to see any part of the big 3 crashing especially with respect to performance parts. As far as the Ford sucks/chevy sucks/chrysler sucks argument, we have all seen at one time or another brand "a" dust of Brand "b" and vise versa. Its just a matter of who has the most money.

The Ford / Chevy / Dodge rivalry is as old as, well, the comanies themselves.  If you prefer to drive an import, knock yourself out.  Ive almost pulled the trigger on a couple German made cars, but have as of yet, always bought domestic.

As to SVE (the enginnering group of Ford, and before that, SVO) and SVT (really the badge / marketing group), Ford will continue to have a special "Performance Group" in one way or another (which has recently been copied by Chrysler's SRT group, etc).  

One thing I have noticed in all SVT products isnt  just speed, but great handling.  My truck handles as well, and many times better, than sport cars / sedans.  To take a nearly 5000 pound, fully functional truck, and be able to get it to turn .88 G's on a skidpad is incredible.

Does everyone NEED a performance vehicle with 300, 400, 500 HP?  No.  Do all of us on ARFCOM NEED half a dozen (or more) AR-15's and 14K in ammo stashed away?  No.  

I've always appreciated SVT for quality products that make driving fun.  Ive taken many a road trip that would have been down right brutal, in my opinion, cruising along in some earth tone econo shitbox.  Or, just boring in a comfy sedan.  But to take that same trip, or even the daily commute to work, and hear that American V8 rumble................well, its night and day.  It actually makes travelling in a vehicle pleasant.  And for you folks who never just got into the whole muscle car thing, if you have a friend who has one, ask to get behind the wheel sometime.  I have a few friends Ive turned my keys over to, and Im tellin' ya, instant perma grin.  In my case, the Lightning gives me a comfortable daily commuter, able to tow jet skis and such, with a full sized bed to carry whatever, handle the potholed backroads to the rifle range, and still be fast as hell.  Best overall truck ever made, in my opinion, courtesy of Ford's SVT program.  Just dont ask me about gas mileage, ha ha ha (10 MPG in city, 15 HWY)

But again, to each their own.  

And to your Ford guys, the reason SVT products have slowed to a trickle is so much of the SVT engineering team was pulled off other products to get the Ford GT (GT40) built, and with Colletti retiring and that vietnamese guy taking over, a skake up happened (obviously).  Plus, the big money maker, the new Mustang, had to take precedent.  Theres also talk about using some of the SVT engineering talent in Lincoln and Mercury vehicles (just not badged as "SVT").

I personally am a GM guy myself.

It's all YMMV and all that but after "The incredible rusting Aerostar"-no more Fords for my family or for me for that matter, but I don't drive yet.

It sucks though-SVT made some amazing vehicles.  

Quoted: And when the US is no longer a major power in the world you can blame the people who gladly support foreign companies to the detriment of american companies and workers. Thank you Toyota lovers ( among others) for doing your part to destroy our economy.

Pff.. I don't buy a lesser product for more just because it's an American product/company (lets not forget that most Toyotas are American-made). There is patriotism, and then there is stupidity.

Quoted: I find it a shame if this is true. While I have zero interest in the focus (or any mfg's compact) I always found the lightning and cobra interesting cars. It just seems as though the American muscle car is dead. I remember when I was about the start of driving age, everyone wanted a mustang/camaro/chevelle. Not any more. I hear civics, and acuras etc. While I am a Ford guy, I'd hate to see any part of the big 3 crashing especially with respect to performance parts. As far as the Ford sucks/chevy sucks/chrysler sucks argument, we have all seen at one time or another brand "a" dust of Brand "b" and vise versa. Its just a matter of who has the most money.

Yeah, I graduated HS in 1988, and back then, it was all Mustang's / F Bods (Camaro, Trans Am, Firebirds) and the occasional older brother hand me down (Chevelle's, Malibu's, GTO's, etc).  The import thing was well after I left HS (in the midwest, but some say the import tuner craze actually was in California in late 80's or something?).  Anyway, I think one of the most basic reasons that the import thing has caught on with youth is simple:

4 cylinders are much more economical now than 20 or so years ago.

Think insurance.  I remember having a V8 at 16 and the cost of insurance was pretty damn high.  But thankfully for me, I had cool parents who had the means.  A few of my co-workers have children of driving age and they tell me the quote's they get for their kid on a V8 now and I nearly choke.

But as an Amer4ican V8 guy, I do have respect for some of the recent imports that arent all about big wings and crazy paint jobs (WRX, EVO and the Turbo Supra's from the 90's).  SOme of those are hella fast and well built.  But its just not my thing.

Quoted: Quoted: Unless im mistaken the SVT Contour has been gone for a while now. It has.....

I've seen and raced one. I lost (01' Escalade, looked like the old Yukon Denali) but not by much. He thought he'd take on a A body camero with a dual carb 393 in it.... That was pretty funny to watch. He lost to a few much more streetable cars though (86' mustang for one). Overall, I wasn't impressed with the SVT Contour at all.

If true: ;_;.

I'm still enjoying my SVT Contour after 140K+ on the clock and 6.5 years of ownership.

For the money I paid, I got a damn capable car. Not quite as fast from the light as my big block powered 442 was, but top end is beyond the Olds; not to mention the price of feeding each. Kinda like the difference between a M2HB and a 1919A4.

TR

:( Sad.

Not a big deal for me though.  I'm still looking for my 96-98 Cobra

Quoted: Quoted: And when the US is no longer a major power in the world you can blame the people who gladly support foreign companies to the detriment of american companies and workers. Thank you Toyota lovers ( among others) for doing your part to destroy our economy.   Pff.. I don't buy a lesser product for more just because it's an American product/company (lets not forget that most Toyotas are American-made). There is patriotism, and then there is stupidity.

Assembled in the US does not make it American made.

Shivan, your shortsightedness is astounding.    If you spend more money than you make for several years and max out all of your credit until there is no more what will happen?
( US TRADE DEFECIT )    It's not rocket science folks.   More money leaves the country than comes in, what happens to DoD and Mom&Pop, You, Me, everybody else?    

It's pointless to continue arguing about it.   Either you see it or you dont.  

I guess it would be the same if the US Army was under French leadership.   After all they'd still be employed just by different management.

Quoted: Shivan, your shortsightedness is astounding.    If you spend more money than you make for several years and max out all of your credit until there is no more what will happen? ( US TRADE DEFECIT )    It's not rocket science folks.   More money leaves the country than comes in, what happens to DoD and Mom&Pop, You, Me, everybody else?

Your failure to grasp global economics is astounding.

Who do you think is working on all the US based Nissan, Toyota and Honda plants?
Who do you think is employed at all the US based Nissan, Toyota, Honda, BMW, M-B, etc dealers?
Who do you think owns shares of stock in each of the PUBLICLY traded auto makers?
Who do you think gets the SALES TAX payments from the execution of business in the US?
If an American branded car company takes a downturn what companies do you think pick up the slack in demand?
If demand grows, what does that do to US based factory production levels?  If the levels can't be met where do they build MORE factories and employ more Americans?

I refuse to buy shitty quality cars.  In my experience, American branded cars are shitty quality.

If you want to continue to support mediocrity, then do it.  I don't give a fuck what you think about what I do with my money.  mmkay?

Globalism will be the end of the US.  

I can see why Ford is closing the SVT shop. They are targeting a niche market and it doesn't bring in as much money as the company puts into it. Most people buy (or can afford or want) the regular version of a vehicle instead of the SVT model. I feel it's a good financial move.
The good news is that if you want to modify your Ford car or truck, there are enough after-market companies providing turbos and what not.

Quoted: Globalism will be the end of the US.

Ok Chicken Little.

Here's a clue, if those of us in this country had stopped supporting mediocrity back in the 70's and 80's GM and Ford wouldn't be in this mess in the 21st century.

They would have likely gotten the hint that they needed to step up design, amenities and QUALITY.

It's come to a head, and it really is the fault of us all.  However the primary fault can be laid at the feet of the UAW and the CEO's of the domestic automakers.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unless im mistaken the SVT Contour has been gone for a while now. It has..... I've seen and raced one. I lost (01' Escalade, looked like the old Yukon Denali) but not by much. He thought he'd take on a A body camero with a dual carb 393 in it.... That was pretty funny to watch. He lost to a few much more streetable cars though (86' mustang for one). Overall, I wasn't impressed with the SVT Contour at all.

You can't judge every car's worth simply by its drag racing abilities (or lack thereof).

The SVT Contour is an exceptional car from a handling dynamics standpoint, particularly considering its meager price.