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Posted: 3/12/2006 3:05:02 PM EDT
.....do we have to repeatedly read the same basic Fortier article about some gun from Finland or Russia or what new ammo Wolf is making? I could give two shits how a 1940's era 7.62X54R chambered rifle shoots. 50 people will pick one up and be thankful but tens of thousands of people read SGN biweekly. A couple months ago they had a enrmous article on airsoft and how to fricking upgrade a Armalite airsoft toy gun???? Which one of you is writing asking them to publich shitty articles like this? The onyl redeeming quality left in the magazine is getting a good idea of what prices should be for surplus rifles and ammo.

Rant off.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:06:15 PM EDT
I usualy save my SGN mags but lately I have been throwing them away.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:07:07 PM EDT
Write an article for them and send it in, you have an old 50s or 60s or 70s rifle, don't you?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:07:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:08:36 PM EDT
What is your problem with Fortier
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:09:56 PM EDT
Take a good look these days around the gun message boards, including this one. How many people here are too young to own a gun? How many live someplace where AR's and AK's are banned? These are the people that airsoft replicas may appeal to. How many are too poor to own multiple guns that cost $500 to $1500 each, or just happen to like fine old weapons? These are the people interesteded in old guns that cost almost nothing. You can't blame SGN for catering to their customers. If you don't like it write to them and complain. Ranting here won't acheive anything except maybe lower your blood pressure.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 3:15:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WindGapAR15:
I could give two shits how a 1940's era 7.62X54R chambered rifle shoots.



I care as my next purchase will more than likely be a rifle with said chambered round.


The onyl redeeming quality left in the magazine is getting a good idea of what prices should be for surplus rifles and ammo.


This totally contradicks above quoted statement as a large percentage of surplus riflres are chambered for 7.62x54R. I believe you find that more than 50 ARFcom members own a rifle chambered in 7.62x54R.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:47:03 PM EDT
First up. What is your problem with Fortier? Is it that you know he posts here and want to bag on him, pick a fight? What is your point with that?

Second, all the writers are writing stuff about everything new under the sun... They also have to cater to the biggest group possible (to sell as many magazines as possible).

I think you just want to start something with Fortier. Which is sad. And lame.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:49:24 PM EDT
BTW the same "don't click on it" philosophy we tell people about with regards to threads that offend them, etc., and TV shows that suck ("don't watch it"), apply here: Don't read his stuff. Nobody is making you.

Frankly I tend to learn things when I read his articles. (Others' too, but you seem to have a thing for Fortier so I'm talking about him).
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:52:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
BTW the same "don't click on it" philosophy we tell people about with regards to threads that offend them, etc., and TV shows that suck ("don't watch it"), apply here: Don't read his stuff. Nobody is making you.

Frankly I tend to learn things when I read his articles. (Others' too, but you seem to have a thing for Fortier so I'm talking about him).



+1
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:53:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
First up. What is your problem with Fortier? Is it that you know he posts here and want to bag on him, pick a fight? What is your point with that?

Second, all the writers are writing stuff about everything new under the sun... They also have to cater to the biggest group possible (to sell as many magazines as possible).

I think you just want to start something with Fortier. Which is sad. And lame.



+1

I really like SGN and the widely varying subjects they publish articles about. A little history about our beloved firearms never hurt anybody. Last issue they started a series on refinishing a beat up Citori. I inhale Ask The Gun Guy articles too. Jeff Knox, etc, etc. Great stuff. I look forward to every issue and I pass them on to a growing list of others. I just re-upped for another couple years worth.

Keep writing the good stuff, Mr. Fortier!
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 5:58:28 PM EDT
My only problem with SGN is that it makes me go out and spend more money. I see a smokin deal on ammo or guns and I am ordering the next day.

I know some people have a problem with Fortier but I like that he likes many of the same guns I do.

And I also read SGN for Fred to keep me inspired to keep up my training.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:00:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 6:05:51 PM EDT by GaryM]
They have to fill the magazine with something and I bet there are at least a few people interested in his articles so wtf? Don't like, don't read it.
I have a subscription to it and I will admit I usually just flip through it looking for anything new on the surplus market. Hell, I even read Fred even though I think he is either A. A raving lunatic B. Funny as hell with an incredibly sharp rhetorical humor. or C. Trying to get some very important things done by using a combination of writing techniques to encourage and motivate the reader.
Ok, Fortier is boring to most but would it be better if they just left him out and replaced him with nothing?
ETA; Hey Fortier, if you do read this I do want to tell you I do find your writings interesting. If a person goes through the history of how a country arms itself they can easily see paralells in the polictical development of the country. In a way looking at how countries armed themselves especially in the post WWII era really shines a light on how modern social/political/military preferences have aligned.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:16:13 PM EDT
"BTW the same "don't click on it" philosophy we tell people about with regards to threads that offend them, etc., and TV shows that suck ("don't watch it"), apply here: Don't read his stuff. Nobody is making you.

Frankly I tend to learn things when I read his articles. (Others' too, but you seem to have a thing for Fortier so I'm talking about him)."

exactly!!!! Are you personal buddies or maybe even fortier himself? I notice anytime his name comes up in a negative way you jump on it.

I dislike the way he has to include himself in many of the pics to th epoint of them not being informative. They show a pic of him and a freaking rifle with little or no text worth my time to read. Its a waste of valuable pro 2nd Amendment space. His reviewing style is the epitome of the gunwriter who is in the companies pocket. All he espouses are products where he has visited the factories overseas and constantly recommends the same items over and over again. Very monotonous writer too. Thats basically it. I dislike Fortier and think he is ruining a otherwise pretty good gun mag. He is one of many bad writers out there today. I hope you enjoy this response Macman or whatever. Go to town.

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:19:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheLibertarianMind:
I usualy save my SGN mags but lately I have been throwing them away.



Me to...Tossing them. Airsoft and old WWII rifles I could care less about.

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:19:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WindGapAR15:
.....do we have to repeatedly read the same basic Fortier article about some gun from Finland or Russia or what new ammo Wolf is making? I could give two shits how a 1940's era 7.62X54R chambered rifle shoots. 50 people will pick one up and be thankful but tens of thousands of people read SGN biweekly. A couple months ago they had a enormous article on airsoft and how to fricking upgrade a Armalite airsoft gun???? Which one of you is writing asking them to publish shitty articles like this? The only redeeming quality left in the magazine is getting a good idea of what prices should be for surplus rifles and ammo.

Rant off.



Same issue had yet another article about the Kimber Warrior (*YAWN*). Talk about yesterday's news... I wonder how many people bothered to read it? I wasn't one of them.
It's not that the articles are shitty, because they aren't. They just don't appeal to everyone.

You could always get Gun List, and have NO articles.

If I want classified ads, I'll get GL or SGN. If I'm looking for articles to read while taking a dump, I'll buy SAR or SWAT.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:20:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:26:11 PM EDT


Don't buy it ? Pretty simple solution....

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:28:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WindGapAR15:
"BTW the same "don't click on it" philosophy we tell people about with regards to threads that offend them, etc., and TV shows that suck ("don't watch it"), apply here: Don't read his stuff. Nobody is making you.

Frankly I tend to learn things when I read his articles. (Others' too, but you seem to have a thing for Fortier so I'm talking about him)."

exactly!!!! Are you personal buddies or maybe even fortier himself? I notice anytime his name comes up in a negative way you jump on it.

I dislike the way he has to include himself in many of the pics to th epoint of them not being informative. They show a pic of him and a freaking rifle with little or no text worth my time to read. Its a waste of valuable pro 2nd Amendment space. His reviewing style is the epitome of the gunwriter who is in the companies pocket. All he espouses are products where he has visited the factories overseas and constantly recommends the same items over and over again. Very monotonous writer too. Thats basically it. I dislike Fortier and think he is ruining a otherwise pretty good gun mag. He is one of many bad writers out there today. I hope you enjoy this response Macman or whatever. Go to town.




hahaha

No, I'm from Michigan. I admit like the guy's writing. I have no affiliation with any gun, ammo, or gear companies unfortunately (for me).

Frankly I notice that whenever NEGATIVE things are written about Fortier you are either the originator or you pile on pretty quick. I hope you hate most gun writers then, they usually find a way of weaseling into a picture. If you're such a 2A activist you should be doing more than ranting online about things you cannot control other than to not buy.

Oh, you should hate advertisers in gun magazines too, because all they're doing is wasting "valuable pro 2nd Amendment space" with their shilling. A gun writer's job is to bring information to us in an entertaining way. And if a particular manufacturer sends you something to review, what are you going to do? You're going to review what they sent you... Just stick to Arfcom, you'll save money to boot.

I'll be honest with you. I don't read a lot of stuff about deer rifles and the like - I prefer to read about EBRs and AARs from the sandboxes, stuff like that. But I still will buy the mag if it's got something ELSE interesting in it. Not every magazine is going to be written specifically for Mr. WindGapAR15. Or me. Big whoop.

Don't buy the magazines if they cause you such a fit of palpitations. Cripes. If you don't like Macdonalds' filet o' fish but like the Big Mac - here's a hintsky - DON'T EAT IT.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:38:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By glimmerman68:

Originally Posted By WindGapAR15:
I could give two shits how a 1940's era 7.62X54R chambered rifle shoots.



I care as my next purchase will more than likely be a rifle with said chambered round.


The onyl redeeming quality left in the magazine is getting a good idea of what prices should be for surplus rifles and ammo.


This totally contradicks above quoted statement as a large percentage of surplus riflres are chambered for 7.62x54R. I believe you find that more than 50 ARFcom members own a rifle chambered in 7.62x54R.



I already have 2, I plan on getting more.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 6:54:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eodtech2000:

Originally Posted By glimmerman68:

Originally Posted By WindGapAR15:
I could give two shits how a 1940's era 7.62X54R chambered rifle shoots.



I care as my next purchase will more than likely be a rifle with said chambered round.


The onyl redeeming quality left in the magazine is getting a good idea of what prices should be for surplus rifles and ammo.


This totally contradicks above quoted statement as a large percentage of surplus riflres are chambered for 7.62x54R. I believe you find that more than 50 ARFcom members own a rifle chambered in 7.62x54R.



I already have 2, I plan on getting more.



I have three in 7.62x54, if some gun snob doesn't believe they are worthy enough to be written about they should crawl into their little corner and learn to deal with the fact the world does not revolve around their interests.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:01:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 7:02:41 PM EDT by WayneG]
Interesting to see the difference in writers SGN puts in its pages:

Peter Kokalis, who has truly "seen the elephant", has spent practically his entire adult life in the field either on active duty or as a "military advisor". He has years of hands on experience with military weapons in the field. His articles are not biased, he is quick to note deficiencies, and they are very well written. I learn something everytime I read his articles. I always read a Kokalis article.

David Fortier, on the other hand, has no field experience beyond the rifle range that I know of. His articles are advertisements. His posing for his wife in costume is just silly and sophmoric. I learn nothing from his articles. I always skip a Fortier article.

Will I cancel my subscription to SGN because they employ Mr. Fortier? No. Apparently he has some appeal to some folks, and I respect that. I bear him no ill will. In fact, I'm envious that someone of his limited firearms background has got a gig as a "gun writer" and gets paid to shoot. I wish him well, but I don't take him seriously.

As long as SGN keeps printing Kokalis articles, I will continue to subscribe.

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:35:27 PM EDT
I love Fortier's writing and his interests are similar to mine.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:22:18 PM EDT
I quit SGNs about 6 years ago, nothing in there you can't find on the internet especially ARFCOM
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:48:29 PM EDT
Was it Peter Kokalis who wrote that article about the M60 in Central America? That was good. I find those articles to be very informative.

Many of the others (think the latest Kimber article) are simply too detailed to have been written by SGN authors. They are most likely PR written by Kimber and printed under the author's name. You see that in other magazines, not just for guns. Total BS.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:55:40 PM EDT
Freds articals make it all worth while to me
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 3:34:27 PM EDT
Vin Suprinow.... Suprinivi.... That Vin guy writes some thought provoking stuff as well. His analysis of legal issues surround the 2A are usually quite insightful and illuminating.
Link Posted: 3/13/2006 7:38:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
I love Fortier's writing and his interests are similar to mine.

GunLvr



I liked the info he had about the Prvi Partizan/Wolf Gold line in this week's issue. I sure hope we see cheaper costs on obsolete rounds.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:22:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SS109:

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
I love Fortier's writing and his interests are similar to mine.

GunLvr



I liked the info he had about the Prvi Partizan/Wolf Gold line in this week's issue. I sure hope we see cheaper costs on obsolete rounds.



My guess is that we won't. Hot Shot and Prvi Partisan ammo was already being imported. Wolf repackaging them will probably drive up the cost some. We need some other cheap locales (India, Pakistan?) to start producing quality ammo.
Link Posted: 3/14/2006 6:25:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:

Originally Posted By SS109:

Originally Posted By GunLvrPHD:
I love Fortier's writing and his interests are similar to mine.

GunLvr



I liked the info he had about the Prvi Partizan/Wolf Gold line in this week's issue. I sure hope we see cheaper costs on obsolete rounds.



My guess is that we won't. Hot Shot and Prvi Partisan ammo was already being imported. Wolf repackaging them will probably drive up the cost some. We need some other cheap locales (India, Pakistan?) to start producing quality ammo.



Indian and Pakistani ammo... quality?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:39:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WayneG:
Interesting to see the difference in writers SGN puts in its pages:

Peter Kokalis, who has truly "seen the elephant", has spent practically his entire adult life in the field either on active duty or as a "military advisor". He has years of hands on experience with military weapons in the field. His articles are not biased, he is quick to note deficiencies, and they are very well written. I learn something everytime I read his articles. I always read a Kokalis article.

David Fortier, on the other hand, has no field experience beyond the rifle range that I know of. His articles are advertisements. His posing for his wife in costume is just silly and sophmoric. I learn nothing from his articles. I always skip a Fortier article.

Will I cancel my subscription to SGN because they employ Mr. Fortier? No. Apparently he has some appeal to some folks, and I respect that. I bear him no ill will. In fact, I'm envious that someone of his limited firearms background has got a gig as a "gun writer" and gets paid to shoot. I wish him well, but I don't take him seriously.

As long as SGN keeps printing Kokalis articles, I will continue to subscribe.




Umm, eh, have you seen the most recent issue of shotgun news and Kokalis' article on the Stoner 63? I was almost so embarrased by the cover I didnt buy it. Talk about dressing up.
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 9:53:07 PM EDT
good rant thinking the same to myself i now pick it up when i feel i have fully read my other mags to many times
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:14:21 PM EDT
Who is Fortier?
Link Posted: 3/15/2006 10:16:13 PM EDT
I would suggest starting up your own magazine, and title it "Gun articles that only I am interested in". See how well it flies.

I like everything gun-related. There's no topic of shooting that's out of place in SGN, or firearm. Learn to appreciate firearms in their entirety, instead of believing that only your personal interests should guide the market.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 5:42:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 5:44:27 AM EDT by TheOtherDave]
I read the article, twice. And I don't have a burning desire to own any vintage bolt guns...

BTW, the bolt gun he reviewed is current issue and apparently rare in the world.....

ETA: the Stoner63 article was Pure Sex. Good god, that is a beautiful weapon!
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 6:09:31 AM EDT
SGN has articles? Shit, when did this start?

hang on...

..

...

....

Oh yeah, I see now... those are the pages between ads.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 7:42:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
Indian and Pakistani ammo... quality?



If they wanted to they could export quality ammo. What they have exported so far are the rejects from their military...the lots their military didn't want anymore. India now uses a .223 cal. rifle, and the ammo they issue to their soldiers is certainly as good as anything the Chinese issue.

GunLvr
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 9:24:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ken_mays:
SGN has articles? Shit, when did this start?

hang on...

..

...

....

Oh yeah, I see now... those are the pages between ads.



It's kinda like Penthouse or Hustler - There ARE articles between all the pictures of what I lust for but usually can't afford to have
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 12:36:55 PM EDT
I read it for Fred
everything else is a bonus
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 12:51:24 PM EDT
I subscribed to SGN simply because the huge discount for subscribing made it work out about the same as buying an issue every other month in the book store. Having it delivered to my door is a nice perk too.

Most of the bigger vendors have web pages, and some of the columns are available for free on their web site. So you could whip up a "virtual" SGN pretty easily. But you can't line a bird cage with electrons, now can you :)

Link Posted: 3/16/2006 2:17:20 PM EDT
Ok SGN is not a mag. I buy for articles to read, if they have a good one that is a bonus.
I picked one up last night to look at in my hotel room.
As I am looking at completing my C&R FFL if work doesn't send me away for a day or two, I like the ads for the older rifles.
Also I spied some police trade ins for some smith 9mms.
Hmmm a 7.62x25 pistole for 89.95.
I resepct your rant but you have a choice, don't buy it.
I also use SGN for a place to get ideas to research on the 'net.
Link Posted: 3/16/2006 2:29:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/16/2006 2:30:43 PM EDT by JDemond]
I am of the opinion that Fortier is a douche bag. I have dumped three magazines that kept running his long winded extolls on commie guns. Anyone remember Dragunov vs M14, or how about K98 Mauser vs Mosin Nagant?? Everytime he writes a versus article about a commie gun vs whatever, he always claims the commie gun is the best.
Not to mention promoting whatever company sent him free stuff.

Link Posted: 3/17/2006 2:36:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By JDemond:
I am of the opinion that Fortier is a douche bag. I have dumped three magazines that kept running his long winded extolls on commie guns. Anyone remember Dragunov vs M14, or how about K98 Mauser vs Mosin Nagant?? Everytime he writes a versus article about a commie gun vs whatever, he always claims the commie gun is the best.
Not to mention promoting whatever company sent him free stuff.





Do you think that, maybe, just maybe it's possible that his ideas have merit and that his opinion is correct? I mean, if you know anything about the M14, you know that it was NOT the best tool for the job when it was introduced by people who had a bad case of "not made here" syndrome... They actually rigged the tests so that competing rifles would be at a disadvantage.

From what I've seen, Fortier tends to do stories on things we don't get to see every day. Why the hell would I want to see another Bling-assed AR15 write up with every peice of "new and revolutionary" shit it has hung off of it is something I learned more about a month prior on the internet than I ever could from a gun rag?
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 5:54:57 AM EDT
I will be honest with you guys. I think you're jealous. That's right, I said it. It's okay, just admit it.

I'll run down a few points: The guy gets all kinds of toys to play with and write about - to include cool new AND old guns, frontline and preproduction ammo, optics and accessories, he shoots for a living (without getting shot back at ; ) ), he knows what Mutant Zombie Bikers are, and he posts here. He's an Arfcommer.

Don't begrudge the guy because he, unlike you, has a vocation that is our avocation.

FLAME ON!
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 6:02:53 AM EDT
Shotgun News is online you know, you all have computers, click here www.shotgunnews.com/
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 6:08:22 AM EDT
Fortier is the man. I really like his articals and how he writes. I would rather hear about an old war rifle than some new .45 super slick custom $2000 1911.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 6:19:50 AM EDT
I'm betting this was from the J&G ad? Yeah, check their website, they're out. AIM's most recent flyer indicates more are on the way.


Originally Posted By snarfbatt:
Ok SGN is not a mag. I buy for articles to read, if they have a good one that is a bonus.
I picked one up last night to look at in my hotel room.
As I am looking at completing my C&R FFL if work doesn't send me away for a day or two, I like the ads for the older rifles.
Also I spied some police trade ins for some smith 9mms.
Hmmm a 7.62x25 pistole for 89.95.
I resepct your rant but you have a choice, don't buy it.
I also use SGN for a place to get ideas to research on the 'net.

Link Posted: 3/17/2006 10:21:39 AM EDT
I like all of Fortiers articles and have most of the same interests as the guns he writes about. I dont understand the people who slam him but dont write articles and send them in thereselves.

Keep up the good work Fortier.
Link Posted: 3/17/2006 1:15:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By plowboy:
I like all of Fortiers articles and have most of the same interests as the guns he writes about. I dont understand the people who slam him but dont write articles and send them in thereselves.



People slam him because he keeps writing the same old shit, over and over.
The first few articles of his I read, I thought he came across as a know it all asshole. It fostered my great dislike for him.

Keep in mind opinions are like assholes, everyone has one.
The above are mine.
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