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Posted: 3/12/2006 11:43:52 AM EDT
Doesnt seem like too bad a situation but on the other hand the guy did get treated pretty poorly through no fault of his own. Don't know where I come down on this one.

What do you think?

LS1Tech thread


well yesterday afternoon i bought my z06. love it to death by the way.

anywho, me and two other friends went cruising downtown. After cruising for a while, (note trafic downtown at night and people walking down the streets) i notice that there is a cop following my every move behind me. My friends behind me call me on my cell phone and tell me there are 6 more cops behind me following me close. All of a sudden a cop pulls in front of me out of no where and a cop of the street runs up to me in the car and points a GUN at me and tells me to get out of the car with my hands uP!!!!!

i got thrown on the ground, handcuffed with about 10 cops standing around pointing there guns at me. i was thrown into a police car.

come to find out, the car was reported stolen 6 months ago and to there records never recoverd. my z06 had two owners, first owner was the one it got stolen from and recoverd the same day. he then sold it to a friend as a private sale. Then he traded it in at a local chevy dealer here. which was sold to me.

SO, the first owner sold it to the second owner, and to the police records it was still considerd stolen, then sold to the dealership, STILL AS A STOLEN CAR TO POLICE RECORDS. then sold to me, still under a stolen vechile.

Now the police obviously are at fault for not clossing the case,
but the dealership should have checked the vin number on the car to see that they were taking a stolen car in as a trade LOL

very dramatic night last night, i was "arrested" in front of a croud of people.


what would you all do about this?

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 11:46:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By captainpooby:
Doesnt seem like too bad a situation but on the other hand the guy did get treated pretty poorly through no fault of his own. Don't know where I come down on this one.

What do you think?

LS1Tech thread




what would you all do about this?




www.carfax.com



BC
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 11:48:25 AM EDT
Was he near a carwash?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 11:48:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 11:56:39 AM EDT by DK-Prof]
Is it SOP to draw guns when pulling over a stolen car?



i got thrown on the ground, handcuffed with about 10 cops standing around pointing there guns at me. i was thrown into a police car.



Sounds a little liek overkill to me


Also - how did the cops KNOW the car was "stolen" - obviously it didn't have the original plate on it (if it was bought from a dealership, and had another owner inbetween), and only the VIN would reveal it to be stolen, which the police cannot read if driving behind the car.

I'm starting to wonder if this is a BS story?


ETA: I'm seeing (in the thread the Poo linked to) that he claims the dealership sold him the car with the original plates on it, which were apparently the same plates as the first owner, even thought the second owner sold the car to the dealership. Can you do that in Texas? Keep the same plates on the car while changing ownership THREE times, including through a car dealership?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 11:53:37 AM EDT
Was he ever read his rights? If not and he wants money there you go along with false arrest and other assorted charges he can come up with his lawyer.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:01:43 PM EDT
The officers did nothing wrong. They had probable cause it was stolen. Even a hand search would have resulted in a stolen auto report.

I had a case like that once. The car was sold as used by a dealership but the vin was still listed as stolen. Result of sloppy paperwork by the dealership.

The old owner was charged with false report and the new owner dealt with the dealership. This was over ten years ago and the MVA obvously didn't cross reference the vin when issuing new registration.

Sold with original plates sounds fishy, though.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:04:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Is it SOP to draw guns when pulling over a stolen car?



i got thrown on the ground, handcuffed with about 10 cops standing around pointing there guns at me. i was thrown into a police car.



Sounds a little liek overkill to me


Also - how did the cops KNOW the car was "stolen" - obviously it didn't have the original plate on it (if it was bought from a dealership, and had another owner inbetween), and only the VIN would reveal it to be stolen, which the police cannot read if driving behind the car.

I'm starting to wonder if this is a BS story?


ETA: I'm seeing (in the thread the Poo linked to) that he claims the dealership sold him the car with the original plates on it, which were apparently the same plates as the first owner, even thought the second owner sold the car to the dealership. Can you do that in Texas? Keep the same plates on the car while changing ownership THREE times, including through a car dealership?




In Calif. plate is registered to car not owner. car sold plate goes with it.(unless vanity plate)

Roy
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:06:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:07:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 12:09:18 PM EDT by BlueCrusader]

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Is it SOP to draw guns when pulling over a stolen car?



Yes. High Risk Stop. It's SOP.




i got thrown on the ground, handcuffed with about 10 cops standing around pointing there guns at me. i was thrown into a police car.



Sounds a little liek overkill to me



Happens alot. Mostly, people driving stolen cars tend to be a little unpredictable.




Also - how did the cops KNOW the car was "stolen" - obviously it didn't have the original plate on it (if it was bought from a dealership, and had another owner inbetween), and only the VIN would reveal it to be stolen, which the police cannot read if driving behind the car.

I'm starting to wonder if this is a BS story?



Definately some BS here.




ETA: I'm seeing (in the thread the Poo linked to) that he claims the dealership sold him the car with the original plates on it, which were apparently the same plates as the first owner, even thought the second owner sold the car to the dealership. Can you do that in Texas? Keep the same plates on the car while changing ownership THREE times, including through a car dealership?



I'm going to have to call BS on this whole story, unless the car dealer is Pancho's Newly Stolen/Hardly Used Auto Mall in Nuevo Laredo.



BC
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:08:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By balexander:
The officers did nothing wrong. They had probable cause it was stolen. Even a hand search would have resulted in a stolen auto report.

I had a case like that once. The car was sold as used by a dealership but the vin was still listed as stolen. Result of sloppy paperwork by the dealership.

The old owner was charged with false report and the new owner dealt with the dealership. This was over ten years ago and the MVA obvously didn't cross reference the vin when issuing new registration.

Sold with original plates sounds fishy, though.




I agree they acted on the info that they had but who is at fault here? I'm not the suing type but in our litigous society if he looks for someone to pay who pays? He has a legit gripe, I think.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:10:23 PM EDT
Were there any airmen shot in the process?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:17:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 12:17:36 PM EDT by zipper]
With a car like that you should have RAN,
Then we could watch you on wildest police videos
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:17:56 PM EDT
Cops did everything right considering that the car was still considered stolen and they didn't know that you were in lawful possession but under bad title of the car. The driver is entitled to his ducats back from the dealer. It would be hard to pursue a lawsuit since the cops were acting under the lawful color of authority. If anything, there may be a suit for negligence against any agency that should have red flagged that it was stolen upon registration.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:20:59 PM EDT
typical overreacting police...freaking out without really seeing what is appening. One car could have pulled you over. He could have politely asked for license and registraion. That would have ended it. These cops are watching too much TV. You should write a letter to the newspaper just stating the facts. Speak courteously and explain that the community needs to know that these police are overreacting and may end up hurting or killing some little old granny who happens to have a lethal fingernail clippers concealed in her car. Encourage some further training so they can more correctly evaluate their environment and potential crime scenes. These guys are going to shoot someone who holds out their wallet.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:36:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 12:39:14 PM EDT by Bama-Shooter]
How was the car originally recovered? Did GF take it and then return it, never notifying the police?


Also the new owner would have to regiester the car and it would show up stolen at that time.

Sounds like BS to me.

ETA: It would have to be registered twice. First to the guy who bought it and then sold it to the dealership and then with the current buyer. Smells fishy.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:38:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Penguin_101:
Was he ever read his rights? If not and he wants money there you go along with false arrest and other assorted charges he can come up with his lawyer.



Ain't gonna happen.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:38:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By johnrj:
typical overreacting police...freaking out without really seeing what is appening. One car could have pulled you over. He could have politely asked for license and registraion. That would have ended it. These cops are watching too much TV. You should write a letter to the newspaper just stating the facts. Speak courteously and explain that the community needs to know that these police are overreacting and may end up hurting or killing some little old granny who happens to have a lethal fingernail clippers concealed in her car. Encourage some further training so they can more correctly evaluate their environment and potential crime scenes. These guys are going to shoot someone who holds out their wallet.



Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:40:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 12:42:34 PM EDT by BlueCrusader]

Originally Posted By johnrj:
typical overreacting police...freaking out without really seeing what is appening. One car could have pulled you over. He could have politely asked for license and registraion. That would have ended it. These cops are watching too much TV. You should write a letter to the newspaper just stating the facts. Speak courteously and explain that the community needs to know that these police are overreacting and may end up hurting or killing some little old granny who happens to have a lethal fingernail clippers concealed in her car. Encourage some further training so they can more correctly evaluate their environment and potential crime scenes. These guys are going to shoot someone who holds out their wallet.




Originally Posted By Penguin101:
Was he ever read his rights? If not and he wants money there you go along with false arrest and other assorted charges he can come up with his lawyer.



+2

BC
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:40:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Penguin_101:
Was he ever read his rights? If not and he wants money there you go along with false arrest and other assorted charges he can come up with his lawyer.




YOUR CRAZY
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:43:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By johnrj:
typical overreacting police...freaking out without really seeing what is appening. One car could have pulled you over. He could have politely asked for license and registraion. That would have ended it. These cops are watching too much TV. You should write a letter to the newspaper just stating the facts. Speak courteously and explain that the community needs to know that these police are overreacting and may end up hurting or killing some little old granny who happens to have a lethal fingernail clippers concealed in her car. Encourage some further training so they can more correctly evaluate their environment and potential crime scenes. These guys are going to shoot someone who holds out their wallet.



AND you really need some therapy....unitl then...BACK IN YOUR BOX ! ! !

WITH THE TINFOIL HAT NOW
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:46:11 PM EDT
Lawyer Up.



Or the story is complete
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:46:21 PM EDT
Whew.....

I'm glad he didnt have a dog with him!
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:49:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tyman:
Whew.....

I'm glad he didnt have a dog with him!



i was just going to ask if they shot the black lab, but i didnt see it in the original story so i guess the pooch must have been at home
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:49:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
ETA: I'm seeing (in the thread the Poo linked to) that he claims the dealership sold him the car with the original plates on it, which were apparently the same plates as the first owner, even thought the second owner sold the car to the dealership. Can you do that in Texas? Keep the same plates on the car while changing ownership THREE times, including through a car dealership?



The plates usually stay with the car in Texas.

The rest of the story is either BS or lacks a lot of facts.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:52:35 PM EDT
1st thing, I would have gotten out of the car with my hands WAY up, stepped clear of the car, and calmly told them where to find my DL, registration, insurance card, CCW card, and my Ruger. Don't need to get shot because of a mistake that gets straightened out easily enough.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:54:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By builttoughf250:

Originally Posted By tyman:
Whew.....

I'm glad he didnt have a dog with him!



i was just going to ask if they shot the black lab, but i didnt see it in the original story so i guess the pooch must have been at home



Link Posted: 3/12/2006 1:03:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 1:05:36 PM EDT by gardenWeasel]
I would have said, "These are not the droids you are looking for."
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 1:06:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Penguin_101:
Was he ever read his rights? If not and he wants money there you go along with false arrest and other assorted charges he can come up with his lawyer.



Someone else has been watching too much tv. No need to read Miranda just to arrest. You only need to read someone Miranda if they are in custody and you are asking them questions. Even if you fail to read Miranda under those circumstances, that's not false arrest, or even a criminal act on the part of the po-po. It is a procedural error and any information gained from the questioning will not be admissible.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 1:09:39 PM EDT
Pooby, the police aren't necessarily at fault. We have often times run into people in their own cars and pulled them out at gunpoint because after they filed a stolen car report, they somehow recovered their own car, or their drug-addict "friend" returned it after some time. They never call the police back to tell them it's been recovered, and it just sits on the books as a stolen until some patrol officer happens to run the plate indiscriminately and gets stolen car hit. The only way to resolve it at that time according to the way we do business is to treat it AS a stolen car until we determine otherwise. So - Felony stop, handguns, cuffs, search the car, etc. Once found to be not stolen - or in his case the former owner hadn't reported recovering his car - the driver/owner would be released w/o charge.

As for dealerships, etc, checking the VIN to verify it's not stolen, they can't. Only LE can do that.

Sucky situation to say the least.

(Of course it IS possible the original reporting LE agency that took the stolen car report was notified that it had been recovered and they forgot to cancel the stolen hit in NCIC) Could get an original copy of that report to determine if it had in fact been reported recovered by them.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 1:12:01 PM EDT
This happens here a fair amount. Tards do a self recovery and never tell the po-po about it.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 2:43:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
ETA: I'm seeing (in the thread the Poo linked to) that he claims the dealership sold him the car with the original plates on it, which were apparently the same plates as the first owner, even thought the second owner sold the car to the dealership. Can you do that in Texas? Keep the same plates on the car while changing ownership THREE times, including through a car dealership?



The plates usually stay with the car in Texas.

The rest of the story is either BS or lacks a lot of facts.




Thanks for that clarification - I agree that even given that, there are probably still facts missing.

Six cruisers and ten officers with guns drawn for a stolen car?

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 2:43:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
ETA: I'm seeing (in the thread the Poo linked to) that he claims the dealership sold him the car with the original plates on it, which were apparently the same plates as the first owner, even thought the second owner sold the car to the dealership. Can you do that in Texas? Keep the same plates on the car while changing ownership THREE times, including through a car dealership?



The plates usually stay with the car in Texas.

The rest of the story is either BS or lacks a lot of facts.




Thanks for that clarification - I agree that even given that, there are probably still facts missing.

Six cruisers and ten officers with guns drawn for a stolen car?




Yes.


BC
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 2:57:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BlueCrusader:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
ETA: I'm seeing (in the thread the Poo linked to) that he claims the dealership sold him the car with the original plates on it, which were apparently the same plates as the first owner, even thought the second owner sold the car to the dealership. Can you do that in Texas? Keep the same plates on the car while changing ownership THREE times, including through a car dealership?



The plates usually stay with the car in Texas.

The rest of the story is either BS or lacks a lot of facts.




Thanks for that clarification - I agree that even given that, there are probably still facts missing.

Six cruisers and ten officers with guns drawn for a stolen car?




Yes.


BC



A Z06 has the potential to be a fairly decent pursuit. Officers riding double in squads are often recruits with a training officer. So think of it as 6 officers/6 cars since either the recruit is watching how the FTO does things, or the FTO is only watching the recruit's performance.

As for there being 6, probably just a matter of they were close by. If not, once there were three, they'd likely have started the stop. The idiot pulling in front of the Vette was totally stupid, and definitely the "John Wayne" attitude that usually gets officers hurt.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 2:59:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 3:00:07 PM EDT by DK-Prof]

Originally Posted By BlueCrusader:

Originally Posted By DK-Prof:
Six cruisers and ten officers with guns drawn for a stolen car?




Yes.


BC




Wow.

That's amazing. If I ever want to rob a bank or something, I'll hire a couple of tweakers to steal some bright yellow Hummers and drive them around erratically in the other end of town
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