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Posted: 3/11/2006 7:12:11 PM EDT
why is the drinking age 21, and not 20 or 22? were there any studies actually providing a good reasoning for why 21 would be the ideal age? i think it's terrible, because it allows 1/3 of college students to drink and 2/3rds not. i think the age should be either 19 or 23. 19 would mean almost all college students can drink but almost no high school students can. 23 would mean that few college students could drink.

but, back to the original question, why 21? was there some sort of sound reasoning, or did they just say "well, the voting age used to be 21, so lets choose that number for the drinking age, as opposed to 20 or 22"?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:20:05 PM EDT
Don't know. I don't think there should be an age, I think it should be when you graduate from High School. That way, the kid that got held back 2 years isn't drinking and everyone else can't. HS kids will still drink, no doubt about it. I drank more in HS than college, especially Sr. year of HS. Also, homeschooling is an exception to the drinking rule. If you are 15 and graduating from your excellent homeschool degree, tough titty, you have to wait until people in your public school class graduate.

I guess it might be easier to just call it 19 years old, but again, there were 19 y/o dipshits in the Jr. class when I was in HS.

If you're old enough to go to Iraq or Vietnam or California or its communist counterparts and take a bullet in the chest, you are responsible enough to buy a keg and a Smith 686. Just my .02.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:21:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By all4freedom:
Don't know. I don't think there should be an age, I think it should be when you graduate from High School. That way, the kid that got held back 2 years isn't drinking and everyone else can't. HS kids will still drink, no doubt about it. I drank more in HS than college, especially Sr. year of HS. Also, homeschooling is an exception to the drinking rule. If you are 15 and graduating from your excellent homeschool degree, tough titty, you have to wait until people in your public school class graduate.

I guess it might be easier to just call it 19 years old, but again, there were 19 y/o dipshits in the Jr. class when I was in HS.

If you're old enough to go to Iraq or Vietnam or California or its communist counterparts and take a bullet in the chest, you are responsible enough to buy a keg and a Smith 686. Just my .02.




if only logic were one of the tennants of government
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:21:50 PM EDT
elisabeth dole wanted it to be 21.

she used the power of the federal government to make it 21 nationwide.

There are some studies,iirc, that showed alcohol related accidents for people between 18 and 21 dropped after the adoption of the 21 year old drinking age.

However, it's stupid to have the feds mandate state policy, and it sucks they way they do it (i.e. "we won't give you federal highway funs that likely came from taxes paid in your state unless you raise the drinking age to 21")

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:21:59 PM EDT
Congress picked "21" out of its collective derrière.

Notice how meth use has grown since they raised the drinking age to 21? Young folks can't buy booze legally. Some figure that they might as well try pot or meth. Those drugs are usually easier to get than illicit alcohol.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:22:05 PM EDT
Not enough folks under 21 vote.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:22:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:
why is the drinking age 21, and not 20 or 22? were there any studies actually providing a good reasoning for why 21 would be the ideal age? i think it's terrible, because it allows 1/3 of college students to drink and 2/3rds not. i think the age should be either 19 or 23. 19 would mean almost all college students can drink but almost no high school students can. 23 would mean that few college students could drink.

but, back to the original question, why 21? was there some sort of sound reasoning, or did they just say "well, the voting age used to be 21, so lets choose that number for the drinking age, as opposed to 20 or 22"?



I don't know, but they should have left it at 18. The societal hypocracy that allows and encourage underage college students to drink their asses off, but won't allow military members that are <21 to drink is ridiculous. I've seen way too many good troops get their careers damaged for something as stupid and harmless as underage drinking. The blatant hypocracy when the punishment is meted out by an officer who partied their ass off in college with no fear of repercussions is laughable.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:22:33 PM EDT
I dont even think an 18 year old should be driving,let alone drinking.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:23:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ffsparky26:
Not enough folks under 21 vote.



Bingo

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:24:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I dont even think an 18 year old should be driving,let alone drinking.



Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:30:32 PM EDT
go to college in a border town, and 3/4s of the college kids can drink in canada
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:32:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 7:35:33 PM EDT by blacklisted]

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I dont even think an 18 year old should be driving,let alone drinking.



That's really nice of you. It's fine to join the military at 18, but driving would be bad?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:34:19 PM EDT
It is 21 because a bunch of politicians got together and made it that way. No other reason.

THIS IS HOW IT HAPPENED. It was tied to federal road funding. If you don't want the drinking age to be 21, that's fine, but no federal road funding for your state. Since most governors were too scared of the federal government to say "BOO" and join together and say NO, you now have to be 21 to drink alcohol. Yet another fine example of the federalization of all laws.

Here is a link. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05197/538834.stm

Here is a quote from the link:


During Prohibition, most states had set 21 as the minimum drinking age, but a campaign to lower the legal age to 18 began in 1970 -- the same year that Congress lowered the voting age to 18, mainly on the argument that young people old enough to get drafted for military service in Vietnam ought to have a vote in national policy and otherwise be treated as adults.

Twenty-nine states lowered their drinking ages to 18 between 1970 and 1975, but many soon witnessed an increase in alcohol-related traffic accidents. A number of states then began raising the legal age to 21 again, but others did not -- creating what Mothers Against Drunk Driving called "a checkerboard of state laws."

MADD took the fight to Washington, D.C., where Reagan established a commission on drunken driving that eventually recommended denying federal highway funds to states that refused to raise the legal drinking age to 21.

Despite his state's-rights philosophy, Reagan agreed to push the recommendation after a major lobbying campaign by MADD and a bipartisan coalition of lawmakers. Since Reagan signed the measure into law, it has saved an estimated 1,000 lives per year.




So there you have it. The nanny state at it;s best. WHy not make the drinking age 80 and save more lives? WHy not make it illegal to own alcohol and put people in prison? OH, sorry that was tried once already...

GR
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:39:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 7:39:38 PM EDT by fossil_fuel]

During Prohibition, most states had set 21 as the minimum drinking age,




huh? during prohibition, wasn't there NO minimum drinking age, because alcohol was illegal for EVERYBODY?

anyways, wasn't tbe NMDAA (national mminimum drinking age act) unconstitutional because it's one of the federal gov't responsibilities to fund postal roads?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:43:12 PM EDT
Because parents are not raising children to be responsible adults...thats why...
Age does not mean shit when it comes to maturity!

I have worked with very mature 18 year olds and child like 30 year olds...

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:46:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I dont even think an 18 year old should be driving,let alone drinking.



i hope a 16 year old rear ends you
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:51:14 PM EDT

why 21 for drinking age?


Because Ronald Reagan said so.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:51:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 7:56:47 PM EDT by HarrySacz]
I am just tired of stupid teenagers behind the wheel thats all. Most teenagers are just not responsible enough.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:53:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 7:56:27 PM EDT by blacklisted]

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I am just tired of stupis teenagers gunowners behind the wheel thats all. Most teenagers gunowners are just not responsible enough.



Come on, that's not a good excuse. You can't take away other people's rights or privileges because a few people fuck up.

I'm 18 and I drive better than many people much older than me, and the one thing I hate more than anything having my rights taken away because other people fucked up. I had enough of that in the public school system.

With that said, I am also tired of stupid teenagers behind the wheel.

However, around here we have to worry more about illegal immigrant drivers.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:54:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By pv74:
Because parents are not raising children to be responsible adults...thats why...
Age does not mean shit when it comes to maturity!

I have worked with very mature 18 year olds and child like 30 year olds...




thats it, right there.

We can go off to other countrys, have people shoot at us, be trained on how to kill someone, kill someone, but you cant sit down and have a beer???? WTF??????? good point blacklisted
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:54:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I am just tired of stupis teenagers behind the wheel thats all. Most teenagers are just not responsible enough.



as an 18 year old, i agree. however, there's not really any other option, since the US has a huge lack of public transportation in all but the most urban areas, and older teens need to get to school/work/etc.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:58:50 PM EDT
Oh I agree about the young drivers. I am still a young guy, but its ridiculous. Kids on phones and just in general not paying any attention to what is going on around them. There is a family friend, female, 16 and has had two wrecks already. Sweet momma, leard to drive.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:59:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I am just tired of stupis teenagers behind the wheel thats all. Most teenagers are just not responsible enough.



as an 18 year old, i agree. however, there's not really any other option, since the US has a huge lack of public transportation in all but the most urban areas, and older teens need to get to school/work/etc.



There are other ways to change that. I think we should have "graduated licensing" based on HP and GVW and age. 16-18, <2500 pounds and 100hp, 18-25 <3K pounds and 200hp, 25+ anydamn thing you want. It would give people more to look forward to at 25 too. They have similar limits on motorcycles in most European countries, limits on displacement and HP until you have more experience. A 16 year old driver in a VW doesn't scare me like one in a Camaro or a one ton Dually. I don't care if they kill themselves, just as long as they don't choose me to plow into with mommy's suburban.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:03:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 8:03:53 PM EDT by fossil_fuel]
yeah, i know of 3 people who were in 3+ wrecks before they were 18. coincidentally, all of them were female

anyways, i could agree with a horsepower limitation for a young driver, but not a weight limitation.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:07:21 PM EDT
Ive always heard itd because your liver fully devolopes when your 21. I kinda smell bullshit though.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:16:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 8:19:57 PM EDT by AcidGambit]
In Germany it is 16 and the driving age is 18, probably a much better idea IMHO. I mean, shit, in Europe you see parents letting their young children have a bit of wine. He it's all about; "I can't wait unti li turn 21 so I can drink, booze it up!" I think it sets a poor standard.

I probably shouldn't have been allowed to drive until I was 23...
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:20:22 PM EDT
It should be the same as the voting and military draft age.


Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I am just tired of stupid teenagers behind the wheel thats all. Most teenagers are just not responsible enough.

Great socialist mentality! Punish all for the mistakes of a few! Most people aren't responsible enough to own assualt rifles either! Lets ban 'em!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:21:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 8:24:43 PM EDT by blacklisted]

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

anyways, i could agree with a horsepower limitation for a young driver, but not a weight limitation.



Do you agree with limiting magazine capacity for firearms?

That is completely illogical. Teens get in more accidents, so make them drive cars that aren't as safe?


What the hell do you think limiting horsepower would do? Half the shit drivers out there that I have encountered are driving tweaked out lawnmowers anyway (hondas).

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:23:23 PM EDT
Knight Life: The legal drinking age comes from the 13th century, when men were knighted at age 21.

Nowadays, it's a legal excuse to bust 18-20 year old drinking adults and run them through the court system to pick their pockets in fines and probation, give them splendid arrest records, and perhaps put them in drug rehab. It's a bureaucratic people control factor and there's a lot of money to be made with a higher drinking age.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:29:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By blacklisted:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

anyways, i could agree with a horsepower limitation for a young driver, but not a weight limitation.



Do you agree with limiting magazine capacity for firearms?

That is completely illogical. Teens get in more accidents, so make them drive cars that aren't as safe?


What the hell do you think limiting horsepower would do? Half the shit drivers out there that I have encountered are driving tweaked out lawnmowers anyway (hondas).




as someone under 18 years old, you pretty much have no rights in this society. i could agree with a HP limitation for <18 drivers from a practical point of view, but not from a constitutional/freedom point of view.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:36:26 PM EDT
I'm supposed to be 21?

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:37:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EvilDead:
I'm supposed to be 21?




+1
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:42:26 PM EDT
they might as well make every thing 18, drinking, service and voting. fuck everyone drinks before there 21 anyways not like its stopping anyone.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:44:16 PM EDT
If you're old enough to vote, fuck, and kill / die for your country, you're old enough to drink in my book.

The federal drinking age is 18. The states make it 21.

Now this may be BS, but I've been repeatedly told that it has to do with the DOT denying $ for road work to states unless they make it 21.

I do believe that 18-20 year olds are going to be more likely to cause fatal accidents after drinking, but this law doesn't prevent them from doing so. Prohibitionist laws like drug laws, drinking laws, and gun control DO NOT WORK.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:50:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:
why is the drinking age 21, and not 20 or 22? were there any studies actually providing a good reasoning for why 21 would be the ideal age? i think it's terrible, because it allows 1/3 of college students to drink and 2/3rds not. i think the age should be either 19 or 23. 19 would mean almost all college students can drink but almost no high school students can. 23 would mean that few college students could drink.

but, back to the original question, why 21? was there some sort of sound reasoning, or did they just say "well, the voting age used to be 21, so lets choose that number for the drinking age, as opposed to 20 or 22"?



I don't know, but they should have left it at 18. The societal hypocracy that allows and encourage underage college students to drink their asses off, but won't allow military members that are <21 to drink is ridiculous. I've seen way too many good troops get their careers damaged for something as stupid and harmless as underage drinking. The blatant hypocracy when the punishment is meted out by an officer who partied their ass off in college with no fear of repercussions is laughable.



I don't understand why they don't just amend law allowing military person under 21 to show military i.d. and drink to their hearts content. It's bullshit, they fight for our country but can't enjoy a beer from a company they put their life on the line for. By saying that I mean if these exceptional Americans don't fight in wars for the preservation of America, American values, America's economy etc those companies would not exist.

And to answer the inevitable fake i.d. problem question. Kids already have fake i.d.'s. If they want to move up to the big boys and start playing with federal laws, which I'm sure forging a military i.d. is, have at it.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:55:56 PM EDT
could be worse...


drinking age could have been "87"
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:44:44 AM EDT

The Maryland Underage Drinking Prevention Coalition (MUDPC) summarizes the provisions of the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 as follows:

“The legal age for alcohol in the USA is 21 years old. The National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984 required all states to raise their minimum purchase and public possession of alcohol age to 21. States that did not comply faced a reduction in highway funds under the Federal Highway Aid Act. The U.S. Department of Transportation has determined that all states are in compliance with this act. The national law specifically prohibits purchase and public possession of alcoholic beverages. It does not prohibit persons under 21 (also called youth or minors) from drinking. The term "public possession" is strictly defined and does not apply to possession for the following:

An established religious purpose, when accompanied by a parent, spouse or legal guardian age 21 or older
Medical purposes when prescribed or administered by a licensed physician, pharmacist, dentist, nurse, hospital or medical institution
In private clubs or establishments
In the course of lawful employment by a duly licensed manufacturer, wholesaler or retailer.” 1 (Emphasis in original. Conspicuously not emphasized is the significant fact that “the law does not prohibit persons under 21 (also called youth or minors) from drinking.”)
The U.S. General Accounting Office (GAO) subsequently identified 19 states which did not specifically prohibit the consumption of alcohol by persons under the age of 21. However, those states are in compliance with the National Minimum Drinking Age Act of 1984. It would appear that such states could legally only charge underage persons with public possession of alcohol, not underage drinking.

The title of the legislation itself is clearly misleading in that the National Minimum Age Drinking Act doesn’t prohibit drinking by persons under the age of 21 (so-called “underage” persons) nor does it require the states to prohibit such drinking. In addition, descriptions of the law contribute to the false belief that it does. For example, the assertion that “the legal age for alcohol in the USA is 21 years old” clearly leaves the false impression that the minimum legal drinking age for alcohol is 21.



www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/YouthIssues/1092767630.html

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:59:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fossil_fuel:

During Prohibition, most states had set 21 as the minimum drinking age,




huh? during prohibition, wasn't there NO minimum drinking age, because alcohol was illegal for EVERYBODY?




The minimum age for smoke crack and shooting heroin is 21!
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:03:55 AM EDT
I agree that it should be the same age for everything; voting, military service, drinking, if you have the maturity to do one of those things, imo, you should be considered mature enough to do them all.

As for driving, in my experience the biggest menace on the roads are mommies in SUVs. Try doing the school run every day and getting road raged in the elementary school parking lot.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:06:30 AM EDT

why 21 for drinking age


My guess is the .gov wants a buffer for "adults" (18yrs olds) to get a feel for all the new freedoms and responsibilities before they are given the chance to blow it with alcohol. In other words, spend a few adult years developing good patterns for your future before tossing alcohol into the mix. I could be way off base though.

I wouldn't vote to lower the drinking age but I'd vote to give servicemen an exception.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:07:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I dont even think an 18 year old should be driving,let alone drinking.



What a great idea!. Old enough to fight amd die for YOUR rights, and YOUR country, but you don't think they should be allowed to have a beer or drive a car. Good to know you're willing to stand up for THEIR rights.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:09:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I am just tired of stupid teenagers behind the wheel thats all. Most teenagers are just not responsible enough.



How about?
I am just tired of stupid women behind the wheel thats all. Most women are just not responsible enough.

Or
I am just tired of stupid Asians behind the wheel thats all. Most Asians are just not responsible enough.

Or

I am just tired of stupid old people behind the wheel thats all. Most old people are just not responsible enough.

See why some might have a problem with your position?
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:16:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I am just tired of stupid teenagers behind the wheel thats all. Most teenagers are just not responsible enough.



The average age in Congress is about 55, and they are all bunch of fucking retards.


So where are we going to set this age limit again? Cause doing it based on intelligence takes too much intelligence to do apparrently.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 9:17:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 9:18:04 AM EDT by Drakich]
The government strategy for regulating alcohol and proscribing it's use by people under 21 is exactly the strategy that will be used for marginalizing and eliminating any other rights you enjoy.

Why were 18, 19, and 20 year olds barred from drinking? Someone said it's because they don't vote enough relative to their population. That's partially true. But it's also because there are a lot more people 21 and over who do vote and don't give a shit, because the right isn't being taken from THEM. Just from some people they don't particularly care for anyway.

Hint: this is how the government attacks "assault weapon" owners. Most gun owners in 1994 didn't own "assault rifles", just like most gun owners in 1986 didn't own machine guns, and so it was easy to get rid of those "privileges" by edict.

If you have a obscure hobby or interest, even if it's totally innocuous, don't be surprised if you find it illegal some day. Too many people who should know better and support the Constitution and the idea of freedom could give a shit, as evidenced by this thread.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 11:00:09 AM EDT
In Virginia the law changed 5 days before my 18th birthday. I was PISSED.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 11:04:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cahill:

Originally Posted By HarrySacz:
I dont even think an 18 year old should be driving,let alone drinking.



i hope a 16 year old rear ends you



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