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Posted: 3/11/2006 4:34:29 PM EDT
Latinos turning toward Islam
Thousands have converted in recent years, often drawn by similarities between the groups
Elizabeth Llorente
THE RECORD (HACKENSACK N.J.)
Mar. 11, 2006
www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/14074652.htm
HACKENSACK, N.J. - Last year, Gaby Gonzalez wore black nail polish and black eye shadow. She had a messy room, standoffs with mom and occasional drinks.
Today, the Honduran-born 20-year-old is known as Sister Gaby.
She proudly wears her jade-green hijab, which forms a nearly perfect frame around her delicate features and large brown eyes. She prays several times a day and does not wear makeup, eat pork or even utter the phrase "happy hour" -- that is all haram, she said, or prohibited in Arabic.
"In my past, I focused on myself. I didn't think about other people, about my parents, just myself and my circle of friends," she said. "Now, every day I strive to be better, to do good, to help others. I stopped being selfish and arrogant."
Gonzalez, who majors in anthropology at Montclair State University, is one of thousands of Latinos who have converted to Islam. So many Latinos have thronged to Islam in recent years that many mosques, including some in North Jersey, have set up special "Latino Muslim" groups within their congregations. And many now offer simultaneous Spanish translations as part of their religious services.
After the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, mosque leaders saw the fear and anger mushrooming against Muslims and decided to reach out to non-Muslim organizations and community groups to demystify Islam and to condemn terrorism.
"When we reached out, we weren't even thinking of Hispanics; we didn't know much about Hispanics," said Mohammed Hayek, the imam at the Islamic Educational Center of North Hudson, in Union City, N.J. "But they were the ones who responded. That's when we realized that our outreach focus had to be specifically Hispanics."
Hayek brought in the head of a mosque in Ecuador and asked him to go out into the immigrant enclaves of Hudson County to talk about Islam. For four months, the Ecuadorian went out into the crowded streets of Union City and the surrounding towns, and encouraged people to ask questions about Islam and Muslims. He also visited homes and spoke to local organizations.
"Here was a Latino, someone the people in the Hispanic community could relate to, speaking to them in their own language about Islam," said Hayek, a thin man with a friendly face and wide smile. "It wasn't Arabs speaking to them, and at the beginning especially, that made a big difference."
The mosque's efforts have paid off. Since Hayek began the outreach program five years ago, some 500 Latinos have visited the mosque, sitting in prayer sessions as guests and attending seminars on Islam. Many converted, usually from Catholicism. Now, Hayek said, of the approximately 1,000 people who regularly worship at the mosque, nearly 200 are Latino converts.
Latinos and Muslims note that their communities have much in common -- tight-knit families, reverence for their elders and a tendency to dote on children. They also note that Islam is a core part of the history of Spain, where Muslim Moors ruled for about 800 years. And many Spanish words, they say, come from Arabic.
"They're coming back to their roots," Hayek said.
The sound of Spanish now fills the air at many mosques. On Wednesday night at the mosque in Union City, a group of Latino converts spoke Spanish among themselves, with the more veteran ones teaching the newest mosque members how to put on a hijab.
"I don't understand a word they're saying," said Mariam Abbassi, whose eyes darted back and forth as she strained to figure out the conversations. "I'm trying to learn. But it's a pleasure having them here. They're very enthusiastic, very warm; we Muslims feel very strongly about seeing others in our religion as Muslims, not Egyptians or Colombians or Puerto Ricans or Saudis."
Like many Latinos who embrace Islam, Gonzalez came from a family of devout Catholics. Back in Honduras, her grandmother insisted that Gonzalez strictly adhere to the religion.
"My grandmother whipped me if I didn't go to church, if I didn't read the Bible," she said. "It wasn't something for me that was allowed to develop naturally."
In the United States, she discovered punk rock music and the punk lifestyle, and for a sheltered Honduran in her teenage years, it was alluring and liberating. "Punk girls wore tight pants, things that showed their figure," she said. "My hair was uncombed."
She was marching to her own beat, but she was still unhappy, she said.
"I was always stressed out, doing things I shouldn't do," Gonzalez said. "I prayed to be led to the right path."
During a college course that looked at different religions, Gonzalez became intrigued by Islam.
"I read more and more about Islam," she said. "I wanted to know what it was that led so many people to submit entirely to this religion. When I read the Quran, I found the truth. It spoke about serving others, putting others first."
Islam made her feel anchored.
Gonzalez's family has come to accept her conversion, she said, and appreciate the positive changes that have occurred in her.
"Islam means submission to God, not that you are chosen to go out and bomb a place -- that is a specific group that is not practicing Islam the way it was intended," Gonzalez said. "We don't drink alcohol, we don't eat pork, we pray five times a day, and people look at that and call us fanatics."
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:39:15 PM EDT
Thats fucked up.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:43:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 4:44:16 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:45:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
members.cox.net/_themacallan/Islamofascism.jpg



I like to think I am a tolerant man, but that pic makes me motivated to get some more range time in
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:50:06 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:12:47 PM EDT
The Religion Of Peace.

Coming to a taqueria near you!

You'd think that devout Catholics would have ZERO TOLERANCE for such foolishness in their culture. Islam is NOT an inclusive religion, and the exploits of its most "enthusiastic" adherents in the last 30 years should be a signpost to every Christian, Jew, Hindu, and every other religion that actually believes in PEACE to avoid contact.

Certainly not to convert!

HTH is this happening?!?!?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:17:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
The Religion Of Peace.

Coming to a taqueria near you!

You'd think that devout Catholics would have ZERO TOLERANCE for such foolishness in their culture. Islam is NOT an inclusive religion, and the exploits of its most "enthusiastic" adherents in the last 30 years should be a signpost to every Christian, Jew, Hindu, and every other religion that actually believes in PEACE to avoid contact.

Certainly not to convert!

HTH is this happening?!?!?



Satan rules the Earth is how it happens.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:17:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
HTH is this happening?!?!?



Poverty, ignorance, and desperation, the same things that have fed religion since the beginning of time.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:21:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By samsong:
HTH is this happening?!?!?



Poverty, ignorance, and desperation, the same things that have fed religion since the beginning of time.



I think more like fear, hope, and a convenient justification for xenophobia.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:22:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
You'd think that devout Catholics would have ZERO TOLERANCE for such foolishness in their culture.



Have you ever met Catholic people?!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:23:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 5:23:56 PM EDT by The_Macallan]


Latinos turning toward Islam

Originally Posted By samsong:
HTH is this happening?!?!?



Islamic conversions are very popular in prison.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:25:07 PM EDT
Buy More Ammo.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:25:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Latinos turning toward Islam

Originally Posted By samsong:
HTH is this happening?!?!?



Islamic conversions are very popular in prison.





Ah, Muslim via injection...
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:26:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
The Religion Of Peace.

Coming to a taqueria near you!

You'd think that devout Catholics would have ZERO TOLERANCE for such foolishness in their culture. Islam is NOT an inclusive religion, and the exploits of its most "enthusiastic" adherents in the last 30 years should be a signpost to every Christian, Jew, Hindu, and every other religion that actually believes in PEACE to avoid contact.

Certainly not to convert!

HTH is this happening?!?!?



Weak minded people are easily swayed.
Those who follow one ideology blindly, easily fall prey to others.
As Eric Hoffer said, they are "hitchhikers on the highway of ideas."
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:28:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Latinos turning toward Islam

Originally Posted By samsong:
HTH is this happening?!?!?



Islamic conversions are very popular in prison.




Ding da ding.
Prislam.
It is also popular among minorities because it is seen as a non-European religion.
Anything to get back at whitey, I suppose.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:31:04 PM EDT
Excuse me I think i just vomited a little in my mouth. MAybe if these people had a little ecucation on what the "moors" really did to Spain they might change thier tune. These people remind me of the "black" muslims who convert out of hatred of the white man and a general ignorance that the Arabs and Muslims have been enslaving their ancestors for centuries before the Europeans even sailed to central Africa. The common denominator here is Ignorance. Plus i think it also proabably has to do with the whole "inner city" Malcolm X kind of attitude. Like they wanna follow in his footsteps because he was "cool" I remember that documentry of White Texans who converted to Islam and the one convert said "9-11 has been a boon for Islam" "Now finally people are learning about it and reading about it and buying the Koran at bookstores." I nearly fainted when i heard that. But dont worry, about these conversos, Why do you think the inquisition was born???????? <------ T-stox "el Matamoro"
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:33:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 5:34:20 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:
Latinos turning toward Islam

Originally Posted By samsong:
HTH is this happening?!?!?

Islamic conversions are very popular in prison.

It is also popular among minorities because it is seen as a non-European religion.

Anything to get back at whitey


Ding!

Right back at ya'.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:47:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Excuse me I think i just vomited a little in my mouth. MAybe if these people had a little ecucation on what the "moors" really did to Spain they might change thier tune. These people remind me of the "black" muslims who convert out of hatred of the white man and a general ignorance that the Arabs and Muslims have been enslaving their ancestors for centuries before the Europeans even sailed to central Africa. The common denominator here is Ignorance. Plus i think it also proabably has to do with the whole "inner city" Malcolm X kind of attitude. Like they wanna follow in his footsteps because he was "cool" I remember that documentry of White Texans who converted to Islam and the one convert said "9-11 has been a boon for Islam" "Now finally people are learning about it and reading about it and buying the Koran at bookstores." I nearly fainted when i heard that. But dont worry, about these conversos, Why do you think the inquisition was born???????? <------ T-stox "el Matamoro"



1st off these people are NOT spanish. they are the decendents of savage native americans who were defeated by the spanish. The spanish moved in, killed off their brutal religion and replaced it catholisim, killed the men, raped the women, pillaged the country side clean and left them with their language.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:00:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By samsong:
The Religion Of Peace.



Religion of Submission, not peace.


You'd think that devout Catholics would have ZERO TOLERANCE for such foolishness in their culture. Islam is NOT an inclusive religion, and the exploits of its most "enthusiastic" adherents in the last 30 years should be a signpost to every Christian, Jew, Hindu, and every other religion that actually believes in PEACE to avoid contact.



It is an inclusive religion: Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians get to go to paradise; Christianity says only Christians go to Heaven. However, if you want to go for most inclusive, go for Judaism; everybody attains the afterlife.


HTH is this happening?!?!?


People actually know more than you do about the religion(i.e. not things taken out of context, or plain out lies).
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:03:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 6:04:36 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:
It is an inclusive religion: Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians get to go to paradise; Christianity says only Christians go to Heaven. However, if you want to go for most inclusive, go for Judaism; everybody attains the afterlife.

Wrong.

SOME Christian denominations believe that - but the MAJORITY of Christianity doesn't, including the Catholic Church which represents about a billion Christians worldwide.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:03:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Excuse me I think i just vomited a little in my mouth. MAybe if these people had a little ecucation on what the "moors" really did to Spain they might change thier tune. These people remind me of the "black" muslims who convert out of hatred of the white man and a general ignorance that the Arabs and Muslims have been enslaving their ancestors for centuries before the Europeans even sailed to central Africa. The common denominator here is Ignorance. Plus i think it also proabably has to do with the whole "inner city" Malcolm X kind of attitude. Like they wanna follow in his footsteps because he was "cool" I remember that documentry of White Texans who converted to Islam and the one convert said "9-11 has been a boon for Islam" "Now finally people are learning about it and reading about it and buying the Koran at bookstores." I nearly fainted when i heard that. But dont worry, about these conversos, Why do you think the inquisition was born???????? <------ T-stox "el Matamoro"



9-11 has been a boon for Islam; a lot of people who bought the Qur'an to find reasons to hate Muslims for their religion ended up finding that it was to their liking.

Me, I converted, but I am not more Muslim than I am Christian: I don't pray, I drink, smoke, and fornicate. Guess what, most of the Muslims I know know that I do these things, they don't care.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:04:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:
It is an inclusive religion: Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians get to go to paradise; Christianity says only Christians go to Heaven. However, if you want to go for most inclusive, go for Judaism; everybody attains the afterlife.

Wrong.

SOME Christian denominations believe that - the MAJORITY of Christians don't believe that, including the Catholic Chuch which represents about a billion Christians worldwide.




Yes/No question:

Do Muslims and other "pagans" get to go to heaven?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:05:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 6:08:36 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:
It is an inclusive religion: Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians get to go to paradise; Christianity says only Christians go to Heaven. However, if you want to go for most inclusive, go for Judaism; everybody attains the afterlife.

Wrong.

SOME Christian denominations believe that - the MAJORITY of Christians don't believe that, including the Catholic Chuch which represents about a billion Christians worldwide.


Yes/No question:

Do Muslims and other "pagans" get to go to heaven?

Let me put it this way, IMO, hell will be sparsely inhabited.

So to answer your question, yes - ALL can receive God's salvation which was bestowed upon ALL of humanity.

But more accurately - NO ONE knows who will and who will not be saved. According to the New Testament, there's at least ONE man who is saved - the thief on the cross next to Jesus. The rest.... faith.



Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:05:41 PM EDT
All's I know is that if the Hispanics ever start turning to Islam in any great number then I am F-U-K-T!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:08:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:
It is an inclusive religion: Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians get to go to paradise; Christianity says only Christians go to Heaven. However, if you want to go for most inclusive, go for Judaism; everybody attains the afterlife.

Wrong.

SOME Christian denominations believe that - the MAJORITY of Christians don't believe that, including the Catholic Chuch which represents about a billion Christians worldwide.


Yes/No question:

Do Muslims and other "pagans" get to go to heaven?

Let me put it this way, hell will be sparsely inhabited.

So to answer your question, yes - ALL can receive God's salvation which was bestowed upon ALL of humanity.






But alas, we deny Christ's divinity, thus the Christian doctrine of,"those who want to be with the Father must go through the Son" quickly puts us outside those ranks.

And I don't know about you, but most people that are fervent about their Christian beliefs feel that I and others of my faith are going to hell.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:09:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Excuse me I think i just vomited a little in my mouth. MAybe if these people had a little ecucation on what the "moors" really did to Spain they might change thier tune. These people remind me of the "black" muslims who convert out of hatred of the white man and a general ignorance that the Arabs and Muslims have been enslaving their ancestors for centuries before the Europeans even sailed to central Africa. The common denominator here is Ignorance. Plus i think it also proabably has to do with the whole "inner city" Malcolm X kind of attitude. Like they wanna follow in his footsteps because he was "cool" I remember that documentry of White Texans who converted to Islam and the one convert said "9-11 has been a boon for Islam" "Now finally people are learning about it and reading about it and buying the Koran at bookstores." I nearly fainted when i heard that. But dont worry, about these conversos, Why do you think the inquisition was born???????? <------ T-stox "el Matamoro"



9-11 has been a boon for Islam; a lot of people who bought the Qur'an to find reasons to hate Muslims for their religion ended up finding that it was to their liking.

Me, I converted, but I am not more Muslim than I am Christian: I don't pray, I drink, smoke, and fornicate. Guess what, most of the Muslims I know know that I do these things, they don't care.



Some of the suicide bombers were like you too, until they go on summer vacation to Jordan/Syria/whatever, and turn a darker shade of pale pretty quick...

It is very disturbing to me that people let anything or anyone tell them what is right and wrong in the world...

I am a big boy, I can figure my role just fine, thank-you, and blowing up others to secure my 72 virgins is nothing but selfishness to the fullest degree...
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:11:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 6:11:57 PM EDT by PreMed_Gunner]

Originally Posted By capnrob97:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Excuse me I think i just vomited a little in my mouth. MAybe if these people had a little ecucation on what the "moors" really did to Spain they might change thier tune. These people remind me of the "black" muslims who convert out of hatred of the white man and a general ignorance that the Arabs and Muslims have been enslaving their ancestors for centuries before the Europeans even sailed to central Africa. The common denominator here is Ignorance. Plus i think it also proabably has to do with the whole "inner city" Malcolm X kind of attitude. Like they wanna follow in his footsteps because he was "cool" I remember that documentry of White Texans who converted to Islam and the one convert said "9-11 has been a boon for Islam" "Now finally people are learning about it and reading about it and buying the Koran at bookstores." I nearly fainted when i heard that. But dont worry, about these conversos, Why do you think the inquisition was born???????? <------ T-stox "el Matamoro"



9-11 has been a boon for Islam; a lot of people who bought the Qur'an to find reasons to hate Muslims for their religion ended up finding that it was to their liking.

Me, I converted, but I am not more Muslim than I am Christian: I don't pray, I drink, smoke, and fornicate. Guess what, most of the Muslims I know know that I do these things, they don't care.



Some of the suicide bombers were like you too, until they go on summer vacation to Jordan/Syria/whatever, and turn a darker shade of pale pretty quick...

It is very disturbing to me that people let anything or anyone tell them what is right and wrong in the world...

I am a big boy, I can figure my role just fine, thank-you, and blowing up others to secure my 72 virgins is nothing but selfishness to the fullest degree...



Guess what, I am planning a trip to Lebanon next fall... I plan on drinking, smoking, and having sex with fine lebanese ladies. Best part, most of the Muslims my age that were RAISED in Islam would be happy to join me.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:16:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By darth_pavoris:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Excuse me I think i just vomited a little in my mouth. MAybe if these people had a little ecucation on what the "moors" really did to Spain they might change thier tune. These people remind me of the "black" muslims who convert out of hatred of the white man and a general ignorance that the Arabs and Muslims have been enslaving their ancestors for centuries before the Europeans even sailed to central Africa. The common denominator here is Ignorance. Plus i think it also proabably has to do with the whole "inner city" Malcolm X kind of attitude. Like they wanna follow in his footsteps because he was "cool" I remember that documentry of White Texans who converted to Islam and the one convert said "9-11 has been a boon for Islam" "Now finally people are learning about it and reading about it and buying the Koran at bookstores." I nearly fainted when i heard that. But dont worry, about these conversos, Why do you think the inquisition was born???????? <------ T-stox "el Matamoro"



1st off these people are NOT spanish. they are the decendents of savage native americans who were defeated by the spanish. The spanish moved in, killed off their brutal religion and replaced it catholisim, killed the men, raped the women, pillaged the country side clean and left them with their language.



Oh Gee, thank you captain obvious!!!!
I know that, but did you read the part about "returning to their roots" and all that? Even if thier DNA is not Spanish there is a cultural connection between the latin AMerican countries and Spain. Besides most Latins are Mestizo meaning a mix of Spanish and Indeo. So they do have Spanish blood, Language, and relgion and culture to one degree or another unless they are 100% Indian who don't even speak Spanish. But then how could people like that be "returning to thier roots"?
Besides, we all know that the "roots" of Spain are Christianity, and the Graeco-Roman culture! Not some BS Cordova caliphate crap, we threw off that yoke 500 years ago. We made our sangre pura! Espana Grande!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:17:10 PM EDT
unlike many here, I don't think that all Muslims are out to kill whitey.

A teenage girl converting to Islam bothers me to the same extent as someone being "born again"

Both rate a "whatever"
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:17:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By capnrob97:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Excuse me I think i just vomited a little in my mouth. MAybe if these people had a little ecucation on what the "moors" really did to Spain they might change thier tune. These people remind me of the "black" muslims who convert out of hatred of the white man and a general ignorance that the Arabs and Muslims have been enslaving their ancestors for centuries before the Europeans even sailed to central Africa. The common denominator here is Ignorance. Plus i think it also proabably has to do with the whole "inner city" Malcolm X kind of attitude. Like they wanna follow in his footsteps because he was "cool" I remember that documentry of White Texans who converted to Islam and the one convert said "9-11 has been a boon for Islam" "Now finally people are learning about it and reading about it and buying the Koran at bookstores." I nearly fainted when i heard that. But dont worry, about these conversos, Why do you think the inquisition was born???????? <------ T-stox "el Matamoro"



9-11 has been a boon for Islam; a lot of people who bought the Qur'an to find reasons to hate Muslims for their religion ended up finding that it was to their liking.

Me, I converted, but I am not more Muslim than I am Christian: I don't pray, I drink, smoke, and fornicate. Guess what, most of the Muslims I know know that I do these things, they don't care.



Some of the suicide bombers were like you too, until they go on summer vacation to Jordan/Syria/whatever, and turn a darker shade of pale pretty quick...

It is very disturbing to me that people let anything or anyone tell them what is right and wrong in the world...

I am a big boy, I can figure my role just fine, thank-you, and blowing up others to secure my 72 virgins is nothing but selfishness to the fullest degree...



Guess what, I am planning a trip to Lebanon next fall... I plan on drinking, smoking, and having sex with fine lebanese ladies. Best part, most of the Muslims my age that were RAISED in Islam would be happy to join me.



Good for you, not sure why you are so proud of doing what any frat boy does in this country
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:17:54 PM EDT
This is the same media that lies about everything and usually gets caught doing it. Forgive me if I don't believe them on this one. One interview with one screwed up teenager does not a trend make.

I call
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:19:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 6:21:31 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By The_Macallan:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:
It is an inclusive religion: Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians get to go to paradise; Christianity says only Christians go to Heaven. However, if you want to go for most inclusive, go for Judaism; everybody attains the afterlife.

Wrong.

SOME Christian denominations believe that - the MAJORITY of Christians don't believe that, including the Catholic Chuch which represents about a billion Christians worldwide.


Yes/No question:

Do Muslims and other "pagans" get to go to heaven?

Let me put it this way, hell will be sparsely inhabited.

So to answer your question, yes - ALL can receive God's salvation which was bestowed upon ALL of humanity.

But alas, we deny Christ's divinity, thus the Christian doctrine of,"those who want to be with the Father must go through the Son" quickly puts us outside those ranks.

That's a misunderstanding and a misreading.

God's grace and salvation is THROUGH Jesus and is for ALL of humanity - not JUST those who hear, know, understand and believe the New Testament.

How can an infant who dies an hour after birth be relegated to hell?

How can a man born in China or the jungle of Africa and who never hears a word about Jesus be relegated to hell?

How can a good man who devotes his whole life to helping his fellow man, being a good, honest inspiration to those around him and who seeks truth and justice but finds peace in Buddhism rather than Christianity be relegated to hell?

Those who seek to live a good, just, loving "Godly" life are doing exactly what Jesus taught even though they may reject the religiosity that today surrounds the word "Jesus".

In truth - no one knows exactly who is saved and who isn't.


Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:
And I don't know about you, but most people that are fervent about their Christian beliefs feel that I and others of my faith are going to hell.

They are wrong.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:19:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
unlike many here, I don't think that all Muslims are out to kill whitey.

A teenage girl converting to Islam bothers me to the same extent as someone being "born again"

Both rate a "whatever"



What is interesting is that if Islam is so sexist, why are so many females from more liberal/promiscuous backgrounds(i.e. they were sleeping with everyone and everything) decide to join it... perhaps to subvert the religion
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:20:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By capnrob97:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By capnrob97:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Excuse me I think i just vomited a little in my mouth. MAybe if these people had a little ecucation on what the "moors" really did to Spain they might change thier tune. These people remind me of the "black" muslims who convert out of hatred of the white man and a general ignorance that the Arabs and Muslims have been enslaving their ancestors for centuries before the Europeans even sailed to central Africa. The common denominator here is Ignorance. Plus i think it also proabably has to do with the whole "inner city" Malcolm X kind of attitude. Like they wanna follow in his footsteps because he was "cool" I remember that documentry of White Texans who converted to Islam and the one convert said "9-11 has been a boon for Islam" "Now finally people are learning about it and reading about it and buying the Koran at bookstores." I nearly fainted when i heard that. But dont worry, about these conversos, Why do you think the inquisition was born???????? <------ T-stox "el Matamoro"



9-11 has been a boon for Islam; a lot of people who bought the Qur'an to find reasons to hate Muslims for their religion ended up finding that it was to their liking.

Me, I converted, but I am not more Muslim than I am Christian: I don't pray, I drink, smoke, and fornicate. Guess what, most of the Muslims I know know that I do these things, they don't care.



Some of the suicide bombers were like you too, until they go on summer vacation to Jordan/Syria/whatever, and turn a darker shade of pale pretty quick...

It is very disturbing to me that people let anything or anyone tell them what is right and wrong in the world...

I am a big boy, I can figure my role just fine, thank-you, and blowing up others to secure my 72 virgins is nothing but selfishness to the fullest degree...



Guess what, I am planning a trip to Lebanon next fall... I plan on drinking, smoking, and having sex with fine lebanese ladies. Best part, most of the Muslims my age that were RAISED in Islam would be happy to join me.



Good for you, not sure why you are so proud of doing what any frat boy does in this country



Just showing that all Muslims aren't assinine pricks when it comes to having fun.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:20:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By capnrob97:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By capnrob97:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
Excuse me I think i just vomited a little in my mouth. MAybe if these people had a little ecucation on what the "moors" really did to Spain they might change thier tune. These people remind me of the "black" muslims who convert out of hatred of the white man and a general ignorance that the Arabs and Muslims have been enslaving their ancestors for centuries before the Europeans even sailed to central Africa. The common denominator here is Ignorance. Plus i think it also proabably has to do with the whole "inner city" Malcolm X kind of attitude. Like they wanna follow in his footsteps because he was "cool" I remember that documentry of White Texans who converted to Islam and the one convert said "9-11 has been a boon for Islam" "Now finally people are learning about it and reading about it and buying the Koran at bookstores." I nearly fainted when i heard that. But dont worry, about these conversos, Why do you think the inquisition was born???????? <------ T-stox "el Matamoro"



9-11 has been a boon for Islam; a lot of people who bought the Qur'an to find reasons to hate Muslims for their religion ended up finding that it was to their liking.

Me, I converted, but I am not more Muslim than I am Christian: I don't pray, I drink, smoke, and fornicate. Guess what, most of the Muslims I know know that I do these things, they don't care.



Some of the suicide bombers were like you too, until they go on summer vacation to Jordan/Syria/whatever, and turn a darker shade of pale pretty quick...

It is very disturbing to me that people let anything or anyone tell them what is right and wrong in the world...

I am a big boy, I can figure my role just fine, thank-you, and blowing up others to secure my 72 virgins is nothing but selfishness to the fullest degree...



Guess what, I am planning a trip to Lebanon next fall... I plan on drinking, smoking, and having sex with fine lebanese ladies. Best part, most of the Muslims my age that were RAISED in Islam would be happy to join me.



Good for you, not sure why you are so proud of doing what any frat boy does in this country



We will be reading about this clown in the newspapers before too long. There is no doubt in my mind what he is actually going to Lebanon to do.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:24:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Big_Louie:

We will be reading about this clown in the newspapers before too long. There is no doubt in my mind what he is actually going to Lebanon to do.



Yes, I am going to go to Lebanon, a majority Christian country, which allows drinking and does not hold to Shari`a law at all, that is more like Western countries than any other country in the ME, to become a terrorist.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:24:51 PM EDT
Uneducated of the world unite. We will be fighting both groups anyway in a few years so what difference does it make?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:31:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By Big_Louie:

We will be reading about this clown in the newspapers before too long. There is no doubt in my mind what he is actually going to Lebanon to do.



Yes, I am going to go to Lebanon, a majority Christian country, which allows drinking and does not hold to Shari`a law at all, that is more like Western countries than any other country in the ME, to become a terrorist.




Send pics and coordinates of the camps you visit, thanks!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:45:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

9-11 has been a boon for Islam; a lot of people who bought the Qur'an to find reasons to hate Muslims for their religion ended up finding that it was to their liking.

Me, I converted, but I am not more Muslim than I am Christian: I don't pray, I drink, smoke, and fornicate. Guess what, most of the Muslims I know know that I do these things, they don't care.



Whoa, this post keeps getting more interesting as we go. I knew you spoke engrish too well to be one of "them" naturally. And I've argued with way to many of them on the net, they dont argue the same way you do. I remeber you complaining that calling Mohammud a pedophile was pure "lies" like you thought we were making it up or something. No Born Muslim argues that way. You just sound like you did'nt know the truth so you refuted it. Most of the Muslims i've seen just say something like "Oh yeah well in America up until 100 years ago it was legal to marry a 10 year old, So you're no better than us!" or some such desperate crap, defending the undefendable.
So rebelgray err i mean, premedgunner, Make yourself a star on Arfcom! Tell us Why you converted. But even more so tell us WHEN! I can understand some ignorant fool doing it before 9-11 then taking a big "gulp" as you watched the TV on 9-11, but doing it after 9-11 really tells me somthing about the Psyche of that person. Also i like to note that you claimed you Smoke, drink, screw around etc etc and your fellow Mulism dont care? Does'nt that make you a hypocryte? Why did you join a religion with no intention of following it's proscriptions???? So what was the reason? tell Dr Phil t-stox!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:47:59 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
unlike many here, I don't think that all Muslims are out to kill whitey.

A teenage girl converting to Islam bothers me to the same extent as someone being "born again"

Both rate a "whatever"



What is interesting is that if Islam is so sexist, why are so many females from more liberal/promiscuous backgrounds(i.e. they were sleeping with everyone and everything) decide to join it... perhaps to subvert the religion



Yet another liberal is outed - you are obviously doing it for the pussy.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:50:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
unlike many here, I don't think that all Muslims are out to kill whitey.

A teenage girl converting to Islam bothers me to the same extent as someone being "born again"

Both rate a "whatever"



What is interesting is that if Islam is so sexist, why are so many females from more liberal/promiscuous backgrounds(i.e. they were sleeping with everyone and everything) decide to join it... perhaps to subvert the religion



They realize what they are doing is not moral, so they seek out a foundation.
Most "born agains" are the same way.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:51:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
unlike many here, I don't think that all Muslims are out to kill whitey.

A teenage girl converting to Islam bothers me to the same extent as someone being "born again"

Both rate a "whatever"



What is interesting is that if Islam is so sexist, why are so many females from more liberal/promiscuous backgrounds(i.e. they were sleeping with everyone and everything) decide to join it... perhaps to subvert the religion



They realize what they are doing is not moral, so they seek out a foundation.
Most "born agains" are the same way.



uh oh
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:53:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
unlike many here, I don't think that all Muslims are out to kill whitey.

A teenage girl converting to Islam bothers me to the same extent as someone being "born again"

Both rate a "whatever"



What is interesting is that if Islam is so sexist, why are so many females from more liberal/promiscuous backgrounds(i.e. they were sleeping with everyone and everything) decide to join it... perhaps to subvert the religion



They realize what they are doing is not moral, so they seek out a foundation.
Most "born agains" are the same way.



uh oh



It's true.
I consider myself a christian man, but I cannot stand the born agains of any religion.
They are not people who can handle being "normal"
They either have to be complete drunks or annoyingly sober teetotalers.
They either have to be sluts, or complete prudes.
They either identify themselves by their sins or by their professed beliefs.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:54:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By PreMed_Gunner:

Originally Posted By NoVaGator:
unlike many here, I don't think that all Muslims are out to kill whitey.

A teenage girl converting to Islam bothers me to the same extent as someone being "born again"

Both rate a "whatever"



What is interesting is that if Islam is so sexist, why are so many females from more liberal/promiscuous backgrounds(i.e. they were sleeping with everyone and everything) decide to join it... perhaps to subvert the religion



They realize what they are doing is not moral, so they seek out a foundation.
Most "born agains" are the same way.



Ockhams's razor.

They are idiots.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 9:19:35 PM EDT
I would rather go back to practicing a pre-Columbian religion than I would convert to Islam.

Hell I think perhaps the religion practiced by the Aztecs would be a good thing in this war against Islam.

We could use some more human sacrifices.
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