Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He did kill a lot of Islamo-facists. No, he didn't.  Muslim does not equal islamofascists.  The Muslims living there in Yugoslavia werent jihadists, or wahabists, or giving anyone any grief.  Milosevic and the Serbs were criminals for what they did to the Muslims. There are horrible islamofascists out there, but the civilians Milosevic and his merry band of a-holes went after at Sarejevo and Sbrenicia were not them. Hmmm. Don't agree with you there. The stories I heard were that the muslim population had grossly exagerated the situation and the Serbs were reacting to the continued pricks of a muslim population that had been in a guerrilla war with them for nearly a thousand years. I think there are some very valuable lessons to be learned from the whole situation.

One of us is sorely lacking in history, and I think it is you.  But, independently, I will look into whether the Muslims of Yugoslavia provoked the response of the Serbs after the disunification in the 1990s though aggression and terrorism, and whether they had it coming in the name of Serbian nationalism.

That's not the point. The point is one country deciding how another country will conduct its internal affairs, even though that country is not threatining any other countries with its actions.

Bullshit! There's a line that can be crossed and I don't give a rats ass if it's a person, a town, a state, a country or a fucking continent, the atrocity must be stopped. If another nation has the ability to stop it , then they must and we did.

End of story.

Where the fuck did you get the idea that what he was doing was his own damn business? You win the award for most screwed up post I have ever read. And that ain't a good thing.

So we should be in Sudan right now? Have you written your congressman?

I don't know....


my head hurts

Quoted: That's not the point. The point is one country deciding how another country will conduct its internal affairs, even though that country is not threatining any other countries with its actions. Bullshit! There's a line that can be crossed and I don't give a rats ass if it's a person, a town, a state, a country or a fucking continent, the atrocity must be stopped. If another nation has the ability to stop it , then they must and we did. End of story. Where the fuck did you get the idea that what he was doing was his own damn business? You win the award for most screwed up post I have ever read. And that ain't a good thing.

So...the muslims in any given nation can attack their neighbors, and when the neighbors defend themselves "they must be stopped"?

Who appointed you to be Globo Cop?

You are a very good Dhimmi

Quoted: Quoted: Like I said, I figured it would be pointless. If we have to nit pick about wether or not genocide is morally wrong or just plain wrong than I am going to go eat breakfast and get outside. It is a pretty nice day. Well, if it is so obvious, give me a proof in words why it is always wrong in all cases, and I will be convinced.  Just one sentence will be fine, then go enjoy your day... Why is it wrong?

It's a stupid question.  There is no "proof" of morals, it's not a scientific theory or law....

Provide me proof that rape is wrong, or stealing, or tax evasion.....

It's a dumb question asked by a dumb person....

Quoted: That's not the point. The point is one country deciding how another country will conduct its internal affairs, even though that country is not threatining any other countries with its actions. Bullshit! There's a line that can be crossed and I don't give a rats ass if it's a person, a town, a state, a country or a fucking continent, the atrocity must be stopped. If another nation has the ability to stop it , then they must and we did. End of story. Where the fuck did you get the idea that what he was doing was his own damn business? You win the award for most screwed up post I have ever read. And that ain't a good thing.

You're going to run out of Soldiers and Marines with that plan friend.  Talk about an Empire.

Quoted: It's a stupid question.  There is no "proof" of morals, it's not a scientific theory or law.... Provide me proof that rape is wrong, or stealing, or tax evasion..... It's a dumb question asked by a dumb person....

So, all the Christians on this board are dumb?  

Quoted: Quoted: It's a stupid question.  There is no "proof" of morals, it's not a scientific theory or law.... Provide me proof that rape is wrong, or stealing, or tax evasion..... It's a dumb question asked by a dumb person.... So, all the Christians on this board are dumb?

No, just people who try to equate morality with concepts like proof and evidence.  There is no "proof" or "evidence" when it comes to what is morally right and wrong....

You are putting forth an untestable opinion, and demanding people to provide proof and evidence to show your opinion as wrong.  

There are three views of morality, your view, my view and societies view.  
I might think that bank robbing is ok, since no one gets hurt, no one loses their own money, and the govt. can always print more, but society has deemed bank robbery as wrong and punishes offenders accordingly.

For the Nietzche fans, we join into a social contract with society, society allows us to live in that society and to interact with other people, enjoy certain benefits, etc. in exchange we agree to live by that unwritten contract.  Violating that contract empowers society to punish the violaters.

Society feels that genocide is wrong, and is a part of that social contract.  When a leader (such as Hitler, or Milosevic) violates the social contract, they are punished when they fall from power and a dominant power has the ability to carry out the punishment.  

So why was Milosevic's actions wrong?  Because we said so.

Quoted:  The burden of proof is on you to somehow prove that genocide is EVER right, which in never was, is, or will be.   Fuck you, you Nazi fuck.  Is that sentence good enough for you.  Enjoy your day.

If I had to choose between killing 10,000 random Chinese people, which would constitute a genocide, or allowing the entire Earth's population to die, I would choose the 10,000 Chinese people.  I feel that would be the right decision in that hypothetical example.  

You would be required by your opinion to allow the entire population of the Earth to die.  I feel that would be the wrong choice for all involved.

What do you think?

Quoted: That's a shame he had to die in prison.

He should have died in a public square huh?

Quoted: No, just people who try to equate morality with concepts like proof and evidence.  There is no "proof" or "evidence" when it comes to what is morally right and wrong.... For the Nietzche fans, we join into a social contract with society, society allows us to live in that society and to interact with other people, enjoy certain benefits, etc. in exchange we agree to live by that unwritten contract.  Violating that contract empowers society to punish the violaters.

Christians have no proof of their morality?  I think all here would disagree, and I don't feel they are dumb for seeing their evidence as proof.

Where are you getting your take on Nietzsche from?

Quoted: Quoted: That's a shame he had to die in prison. He should have died in a public square huh?

Not exactly what I meant...

Quoted: Quoted: That's not the point. The point is one country deciding how another country will conduct its internal affairs, even though that country is not threatining any other countries with its actions. Bullshit! There's a line that can be crossed and I don't give a rats ass if it's a person, a town, a state, a country or a fucking continent, the atrocity must be stopped. If another nation has the ability to stop it , then they must and we did. End of story. Where the fuck did you get the idea that what he was doing was his own damn business? You win the award for most screwed up post I have ever read. And that ain't a good thing. So...the muslims in any given nation can attack their neighbors, and when the neighbors defend themselves "they must be stopped"? Who appointed you to be Globo Cop? You are a very good Dhimmi

You don't defend yourself by butchering old men, women and children. Based upon yours, and other's arguments, 9/11 was justified because "anything goes" when you are defending yourself from an enemy.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He did kill a lot of Islamo-facists. No, he didn't.  Muslim does not equal islamofascists.  The Muslims living there in Yugoslavia werent jihadists, or wahabists, or giving anyone any grief.  Milosevic and the Serbs were criminals for what they did to the Muslims. There are horrible islamofascists out there, but the civilians Milosevic and his merry band of a-holes went after at Sarejevo and Sbrenicia were not them. Hmmm. Don't agree with you there. The stories I heard were that the muslim population had grossly exagerated the situation and the Serbs were reacting to the continued pricks of a muslim population that had been in a guerrilla war with them for nearly a thousand years. I think there are some very valuable lessons to be learned from the whole situation. One of us is sorely lacking in history, and I think it is you.  But, independently, I will look into whether the Muslims of Yugoslavia provoked the response of the Serbs after the disunification in the 1990s though aggression and terrorism, and whether they had it coming in the name of Serbian nationalism.

I am not taking a position necessarily. I just think that the popular view is only one sided (ie the reports from refugees about tens and even hundreds of thousands of muslims murdered when the real number is in the thousands). Things might look different to us in the future after six hundred years of squabbling with muslims in our midst. In contrast to Hitler and the holocaust, the Serbs seemed to want to drive the muslims out and treat the resisters with an iron fist, something that Hitler did not pursue. Hitler was culling subhumans, from what I have read the Serbs wanted peace in their borders which history has shown is not realistic with a significant muslim population.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He did kill a lot of Islamo-facists. No, he didn't.  Muslim does not equal islamofascists.  The Muslims living there in Yugoslavia werent jihadists, or wahabists, or giving anyone any grief.  Milosevic and the Serbs were criminals for what they did to the Muslims. There are horrible islamofascists out there, but the civilians Milosevic and his merry band of a-holes went after at Sarejevo and Sbrenicia were not them. Hmmm. Don't agree with you there. The stories I heard were that the muslim population had grossly exagerated the situation and the Serbs were reacting to the continued pricks of a muslim population that had been in a guerrilla war with them for nearly a thousand years. I think there are some very valuable lessons to be learned from the whole situation. One of us is sorely lacking in history, and I think it is you.  But, independently, I will look into whether the Muslims of Yugoslavia provoked the response of the Serbs after the disunification in the 1990s though aggression and terrorism, and whether they had it coming in the name of Serbian nationalism. I am not taking a position necessarily. I just think that the popular view is only one sided (ie the reports from refugees about tens and even hundreds of thousands of muslims murdered when the real number is in the thousands). Things might look different to us in the future after six hundred years of squabbling with muslims in our midst. In contrast to Hitler and the holocaust, the Serbs seemed to want to drive the muslims out and treat the resisters with an iron fist, something that Hitler did not pursue. Hitler was culling subhumans, from what I have read the Serbs wanted peace in their borders which history has shown is not realistic with a significant muslim population.

bright idea of the day: hey guys, why don't we just kill off all of the African-Americans since they are responsible for a clear majority of the crime and social distress in the US . Doesn't matter if it is just the men, let's just kill the women and children too so they won't breed. After all, everywhere Africans have been a sizable portion of the population there has been genocide,murder,rape, and a slew of other crimes.

Some of you are permanently divorced from reality, I fear.

Quoted: Some of you are permanently divorced from reality, I fear.

which ones:

1) Those that justify genocide.
2) Those that aren't total sociopaths.

?

Quoted: Speaking of trouble spots on the globe, I wonder why we don't fire cruise missiles into Zimbabwe, killing Black Zimbabwean woman and children, arrest and try Robert Mugabe for crimes against humanity, lock him in a cell for 4 years and let him die?   It doesn’t fit America’s agenda vital interests I suppose. Oh well, at least the world economy is safe now that the former democratically-elected President of the sovereign country of Yugoslavia is dead and gone…

You are slowly catching on.

I am sure there are places in the world where George W Bush would be arrested, tried and shot as soon as he stepped off the plane.

Quoted: Quoted: Well, I've never posted 87 or dupe, so I think I'm safe for now... You just did. Also, I wish Saddam would come to the same end.

hold onto hope his trial could take forever.

Quoted: What is your proof that it is "wrong?"   Are you saying it is morally wrong?

Among other things, Slobo violated the laws of war and was a war criminal.

Quoted: bright idea of the day: hey guys, why don't we just kill off all of the African-Americans since they are responsible for a clear majority of the crime and social distress in the US . Doesn't matter if it is just the men, let's just kill the women and children too so they won't breed. After all, everywhere Africans have been a sizable portion of the population there has been genocide,murder,rape, and a slew of other crimes.

The overwhelming majority of blacks are Christians.  Black Christian ministers/priests don't call for the destruction of the West.  Blacks are stomping some Islamo-facist guts as we post.

Quoted: Ironic to call him a Nazi. The Serbs were the only ones to support us during WWII. The Croats killed 10s of thousands of serbs and ethnically cleansed half a million out of Croatia with American support. Any Croats on trial? Kosovo was a state of Serbia for over 500 years.  We ethnically cleansed that of Serbs for Albanians who already have their own country.  Perhaps when Mexicans comprise a majority of any state the UN should bomb us so we can give that state to the new commers.  Sounds fair, according to you guys. We bombed bridges, power plants and hospitals because, well, why exactly?  Did Serbia pose a threat to the United States?   If y'alls premise holds true, shouldn't we be balls to the wall in the Sudan right now?  Or is that OK because its darkies getting murdered?  Pretty hypocritical, don't you think? how many times have people on here mouthed off about muslims in the United States?  They comprise less than 3% of the population.  In yugoslavia they were 30% and being supported by Osama Bin Laden (yes, we were the air force for al queda in Yugoslavia) nad the wahhibis out of saudi arabia. I have been to ethnically cleansed villages in Bosnia and Srpska.  Some were muslim, some were serbs. It was a nasty little civil war.  How did we decide which side to choose? Bosnia was Bill Clinton trying to get in good with his european socialist cousins who wanted to appease muslims in their country.  Just like Haiti, we got involved in something that didn't concern us.  They wanted Milosovic to be the new Hitler and feel good about themselves.  Just wasn't the way it was.   How many people here would be screaming for civil war if 30% of our country was muslim. Like it or not, our foray into the Balkans was wrong.  Either that, or we have made it american policy to interfere militarily whenever some poor innocents are getting whacked. How many countries in Africa should be be deployed to right now?

This might very well be the best post I've read on ARFCOM.

The problem is that all of the idiots that have already bought into the leftwing lie about this will refuse to believe the truth.

Ironic to call him a Nazi.

Not really. Many of the former Warsaw pact communist parties took a swerve towards facsism after the wall came down. As Austin Bay puts it: "He epitomized the move from “red to brown” in eastern Europe– moving from Communist to ultra-nationalist fascist as the Cold War ended." Ultra-nationalism provided a handy tool to exploit the sentiments of the people and keep themselves in power.

Are there any good books about this whole situation that aren't left wing distortions?

Quoted: Quoted: Some of you are permanently divorced from reality, I fear. which ones: 1) Those that justify genocide. 2) Those that want to save the world from itself.

Trying to find out who's side I'm on?

Quoted: NEVER DOUBT FOR A MINUTE IF THE EUROS HAD THE MILITARY POWER TO DO IT, BUSH WOULD BE SITTING IN THAT SAME CELL TOMORROW FOR CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

What "Euros"??  


The British, Dutch, and Danes who all have troops in Iraq and joined the war when Bush asked?  Who have troops in Bosnia and Kosovo, and supported the U.S. action there?  Those "Euros"?   All of the ones, like the Poles, Bulgarians, etc - who are becoming really strong U.S. allies?  

Please be specific when bashing "Euros" - and vent your anger appropriately on the French and Germans and their ilk   ... otherwise I'll start referring to Mexicans and Candians as "those swarthy Americans" and those "french-speaking Americans" respectively  




Sorry pet peeve.  Europe is just a word on a map - there is no "Europe" in any real sense of the word.  European countries like Norway and Portugal are more different from one another than Vermont and Mexico.

Quoted: Sorry pet peeve.  Europe is just a word on a map - there is no "Europe" in any real sense of the word.  European countries like Norway and Portugal are more different from one another than Vermont and Mexico.

Really makes that whole "EU" thing seem like a bad idea, huh?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Some of you are permanently divorced from reality, I fear. which ones: 1) Those that justify genocide. 2) Those that want to save the world from itself. Trying to find out who's side I'm on?

Just because the desire to eliminate other "tribes/races/etc." of people is inherent to mankind do to our evolutionary path doesn't mean that it is right, or should be supported.

The desire to commit murder is a human trait, does that mean we should let people murder other people as long as it doesn't carry beyond those two individuals.

How about rape? Rape is a very amoral act, and fits into our innate desire to propogate; guess we shouldn't punish people for raping either.

Rape, murder, genocide, etc. are all horrible acts that while they most of the time cannot be prevented, they should definitely be punished. The state/country punishes rapists and murderers, so it is only natural to conclude that the world should punish those who commit crimes at a national level.

edit: strange that I, a Muslim, a member of a religion that supposedly supports atrocities, am the one that is actually against genocide.

Quoted: Quoted: Sorry pet peeve.  Europe is just a word on a map - there is no "Europe" in any real sense of the word.  European countries like Norway and Portugal are more different from one another than Vermont and Mexico. Really makes that whole "EU" thing seem like a bad idea, huh?

The EU is the most unrealistic and delusional political idea ever, dreamt up by career bureaucrats who want their names in history books.  And now it's taken on a horrible life of its own, like a snowball in hell, that is rolling down a hill and growing at a rate slightly faster than the speed at which it is melting.

Quoted: Are there any good books about this whole situation that aren't left wing distortions?

As in, you want to find books that skim over the genocidal parts, or support them?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sorry pet peeve.  Europe is just a word on a map - there is no "Europe" in any real sense of the word.  European countries like Norway and Portugal are more different from one another than Vermont and Mexico. Really makes that whole "EU" thing seem like a bad idea, huh? The EU is the most unrealistic and delusional political idea ever, dreamt up by career bureaucrats who want their names in history books.  And now it's taken on a horrible life of its own, like a snowball in hell, that is rolling down a hill and growing at a rate slightly faster than the speed at which it is melting.

Come on, tell us how you really feel.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Sorry pet peeve.  Europe is just a word on a map - there is no "Europe" in any real sense of the word.  European countries like Norway and Portugal are more different from one another than Vermont and Mexico. Really makes that whole "EU" thing seem like a bad idea, huh? The EU is the most unrealistic and delusional political idea ever, dreamt up by career bureaucrats who want their names in history books.  And now it's taken on a horrible life of its own, like a snowball in hell, that is rolling down a hill and growing at a rate slightly faster than the speed at which it is melting. Come on, tell us how you really feel.

At least I came up with a cool new analogy

It was amusing to watch him make a mockery of the court. Ah well.

Quoted: Quoted: Are there any good books about this whole situation that aren't left wing distortions? As in, you want to find books that skim over the genocidal parts, or support them?

Genocide? You guys sure love to abuse that word to the point of worthlessness.

He was a good man. God rest his soul

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are there any good books about this whole situation that aren't left wing distortions? As in, you want to find books that skim over the genocidal parts, or support them? Genocide? You guys sure love to abuse that word to the point of worthlessness.

I got in trouble over at DU years ago for calling a guy a dumbass (and suggesting he look up the word) for calling the War in Iraq "genocide" of the Iraqi people.




Then they banned me for no reason a few weeks later.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are there any good books about this whole situation that aren't left wing distortions? As in, you want to find books that skim over the genocidal parts, or support them? Genocide? You guys sure love to abuse that word to the point of worthlessness.

I don't know, killing a large group of people for their religious, national, ethnic, or cultural background sure counts as genocide in my book.

Heres the facts...we were there for political reasons. Period. End of story.

No noble bullshit about "ethnic cleansing" or saving the muslims.

It was political. If we truly gave a shit about ethnic cleansing, genocide, or saving people, we would've have been in Rwanada, South Africa, hell, just about everywhere in Africa.

But there is no political clout or reward for risking things there. So we let them slaughter each other.

Ultimately, I really don't care if Africa or the Balkans ethnically cleanse each other out of existance. It just doesn't affect me.

BUT the truth is the Serbs WERE just finally re-acting to centuries of crap from the muslims. If they were sick and tired of putting up with their bullshit, and wanted to end it for good, then they should be allowed to do what they want.

That is what the muslims do...look at history. Chechnya was not an ancestral muslim home. It was Christian, or at least non muslim, until the muslims started moving in thier in the late 1800's. Once they established themselves, they started to try to force the non mulsims out. Of course the Communists in the Soviet Union kept shit in check. The muslims started stirring, and they were ruthlessly crushed. Period. After the Soviet Empire fell, the muz in Chechnya had nothing to control them.

Then you have the bullshit story in the press about the poor oppressed Chechyn rebels fighting to overthrow the Russians and regain their country. IT WASN"T THEIR COUNTRY TO BEGIN WITH, they invaded and multiplied and became a majority in a land which wasn't theirs. So we here about "freedom fighters" and "rebels" when the truth is, it is simply muslims trying to ethnically cleanse an area they slowly took over.

This is the way theu operate, read up on the history of islam over the centuries, it is SOP.....

Sorry, the Serbs were trying to act before it was too late. Did they do it the PC way? No....but we weren't there ultimately for any higher or noble reason. It was politics. If there were no political hay to be made, the Serbs would probably be finishing the job right about now....

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Are there any good books about this whole situation that aren't left wing distortions? As in, you want to find books that skim over the genocidal parts, or support them? Genocide? You guys sure love to abuse that word to the point of worthlessness. I don't know, killing a large group of people for their religious, national, ethnic, or cultural background sure counts as genocide in my book.

It is only "Genocide" if it works, by defintion.

Otherwise, it is attempted genocide - or just violence targeted at a particular ethnica group, which is a more accurate description of the Bosnian mess.

Quoted: Quoted: Are there any good books about this whole situation that aren't left wing distortions? As in, you want to find books that skim over the genocidal parts, or support them?

I want to read a book that explains it, I have an understanding of what was going on over there. I want to read a book on the facts, not some left wing slant that will just try to drive home the point of what the left wing author feels about it.

I tend to agree with the Serbs, I just want more information.

Quoted: He was a good man. God rest his soul

Whatever dude.  That's like the assertions by moonbats that Hussein was a benevolent dictator and Iraq was a place of flowers, sunshine, and fluffy bunnies before that evil Bush got involved.

I'm getting the impression that there's a lot of opposition to the Bosnian thing based on who was in office at the time for more than other reasons.

That said I'm pretty content with letting third-worlders kill each other off.  Most cops will tell you that domestic calls suck.

Quoted: Heres the facts...we were there for political reasons. Period. End of story. No noble bullshit about "ethnic cleansing" or saving the muslims. It was political. If we truly gave a shit about ethnic cleansing, genocide, or saving people, we would've have been in Rwanada, South Africa, hell, just about everywhere in Africa. You are right, the West really doesn't give a damn about anything they can't spin into more votes or more money. But there is no political clout or reward for risking things there. So we let them slaughter each other. Ultimately, I really don't care if Africa or the Balkans ethnically cleanse each other out of existance. It just doesn't affect me. Yep, next time I see a woman being raped/kidnapped/murdered, I am not going to help her... because it doesn't affect me. Let me know how you would feel if someone could of saved your sister/mother/wife/daughter from being killed, but they didn't because "it didn't concern them". BUT the truth is the Serbs WERE just finally re-acting to centuries of crap from the muslims. If they were sick and tired of putting up with their bullshit, and wanted to end it for good, then they should be allowed to do what they want. And the Germans were just reacting to the centuries of history in Europe that put Jewish individuals at the top of the financial elite, stealing money from "honest Germans". That is what the muslims do...look at history. Chechnya was not an ancestral muslim home. It was Christian, or at least non muslim, until the muslims started moving in thier in the late 1800's. Once they established themselves, they started to try to force the non mulsims out. Of course the Communists in the Soviet Union kept shit in check. The muslims started stirring, and they were ruthlessly crushed. Period. After the Soviet Empire fell, the muz in Chechnya had nothing to control them. Then you have the bullshit story in the press about the poor oppressed Chechyn rebels fighting to overthrow the Russians and regain their country. IT WASN"T THEIR COUNTRY TO BEGIN WITH, they invaded and multiplied and became a majority in a land which wasn't theirs. So we here about "freedom fighters" and "rebels" when the truth is, it is simply muslims trying to ethnically cleanse an area they slowly took over. So, if the Native Americans came to power in the US, and started oppressing white anglo-saxons and other ethnic groups; you would be a-okay with Native Americans killing off everyone else since this land wasn't ours in the first place? This is the way theu operate, read up on the history of islam over the centuries, it is SOP..... It is SOP for every group man, not just Muslims. It is human nature to expand, extend your borders, and eliminate those who stand in your way. The Muslims did it during their first few centuries of growth, and Europe did it when they came to the New World; both groups have continued their expansionistic goals, although the former is still going after new land/property/countries, while the later wants to conquer information/knowledge/money/global-power/etc. Sorry, the Serbs were trying to act before it was too late. Did they do it the PC way? No....but we weren't there ultimately for any higher or noble reason. It was politics. If there were no political hay to be made, the Serbs would probably be finishing the job right about now....

well, someone imght want to look at what the muz's have been doing since the end of the war. bosnia is becoming the western front of aq in europe.

having said that, slobdanob, ratboy mladic, radovan, and arkan all deserve to rot in hell. the civ muz's in bosnia didn't deserve rape camps and mass murder. they were no better than the hutu monkeys in rwanda lopping off bits of folks with their pangas...

Quoted: well, someone imght want to look at what the muz's have been doing since the end of the war. bosnia is becoming the western front of aq in europe. having said that, slobdanob, ratboy mladic, radovan, and arkan all deserve to rot in hell. the civ muz's in bosnia didn't deserve rape camps and mass murder. they were no better than the hutu monkeys in rwanda lopping off bits of folks with their pangas...

Sadly, quite a few people here tend to view women and children as valid targets for homicide; same as our enemy in the WOT, in fact.

Quoted: Speaking of trouble spots on the globe, I wonder why we don't fire cruise missiles into Zimbabwe, killing Black Zimbabwean woman and children, arrest and try Robert Mugabe for crimes against humanity, lock him in a cell for 4 years and let him die?   It doesn’t fit America’s agenda I suppose. Oh well, at least the world economy is safe now that the former democratically-elected President of the sovereign country of Yugoslavia is dead and gone…

Wrong. The democratically elected president of Yugoslavia at the time of Milosevic's arrest was Kostunica. Milosevic had lost the election months earlier, refused to step down and was driven out by a mass uprising by Serbs.

He was a monster. His goal was Serbian nationalism / fascism over everything else. The muslims were just a convienient target.

Lemme tell you Anti-Serb Milosevic people something. You have been brainwashed by the Klinton AND MSM mainstream media BULLSHIT. Dont worry a lot of people got suckered by this, I actually belived for a few years that the serbs had set up "rape camps" That was until i learned the truth. The Truth is out there. In fact this Hague Trial was causing no small anount of embarrasment to the Euros and the "klinton policy"!! I'll Explain as best i can though this goes back 500 years!you can look up any part you doubt on the net. The plain fact is whenever a Muslim somewhere stubs his toe the whole entire muslim world rises up in support of them. Keep that in mind, they have learned well from the "isreal" situation, that in order to sway "americanski" opinion, they have to essentially go on a massive PR campaign to get political opinion on thier side. The Muslims had tons of oil on thier side (saudi etc) What do the serbs have?

                  Anyhew, Way back in 1992  When "nationalism" was breaking apart Yougoslavia the "old hatreds" began to surface. At this time an election of a radical Muslim happened who promised to make Bosnia  a "muslims homeland" Even though there was massive intermixing of Serbs and croats as well. His followers would wear green headbands <----(see where this is going??) and hold up Korans and guess what their rally cry was?? you got it, 'Allah akbar'.
Anyone who does'nt belive me look up file footage of their rallies. Also the serbs were getting pretty nationalistic too (im not gonna white wash this and say it was all the Muslims fault)
SO there is still a controversy as to how the fighting started, Each side blamed the other. But suffice to say the Serbs and Muslims began fighting. The Serbs still in Serbia were giving guns , artillary , and what not to the Bosnian serbs. The Muslims raided armories and equipped thier militias but they were not doing that well. So eventually the Saudi and Iranians and what not started to flood weapons into the region, ALONG WITH MUJAHADEEN FIGHTERS. It was at this "escalation point" where Nato and the us put an embargo into effect on all sides. they did'nt want it to get worse. Now onto the whole "atrocities bullshit", Both sides did equal ethnic cleansing. But the Saudis hired a Jewish PR firm (how ironic!) to begin lobbing the capitol to take the side of the Muslims and warned Clinton that NOT taking the side of the Muslims WOULD PISS THE SAUDIS OFF. SO? klinton chose to side with the Mujahedeen. What does this have to do With Kosovo? Well essentially the same thing happened there, The media already behind the idea of  the "wicked serb" Just claimed all over again that there was ethnic cleansing and CLinton started the bombing. In fact the only Ethnic cleansing was done to the SERBS BY US! Now all the Serbs fear for their lives And most have moved out. linky
more stuff
this is just a small sampling, i suggest you look up the whole history of the KLA and "greater Albania" Milosvic was a fucking hero as is Arkan , Radcovic and all the other "defenders" of Europe from the ROPers.


ETA: notice how the local ARFCOM Roper ,Premedgunner ,takes the side of the Albanians on this post, that right there should tell you volumes.

Quoted: Lemme tell you Anti-Serb Milosevic people something. You have been brainwashed by the Klinton AND MSM mainstream media BULLSHIT. Dont worry a lot of people got suckered by this, I actually belived for a few years that the serbs had set up "rape camps" That was until i learned the truth. The Truth is out there. In fact this Hague Trial was causing no small anount of embarrasment to the Euros and the "klinton policy"!! I'll Explain as best i can though this goes back 500 years!you can look up any part you doubt on the net. The plain fact is whenever a Muslim somewhere stubs his toe the whole entire muslim world rises up in support of them. Keep that in mind, they have learned well from the "isreal" situation, that in order to sway "americanski" opinion, they have to essentially go on a massive PR campaign to get political opinion on thier side. The Muslims had tons of oil on thier side (saudi etc) What do the serbs have?                   Anyhew, Way back in 1992  When "nationalism" was breaking apart Yougoslavia the "old hatreds" began to surface. At this time an election of a radical Muslim happened who promised to make Bosnia  a "muslims homeland" Even though there was massive intermixing of Serbs and croats as well. His followers would wear green headbands <----(see where this is going??) and hold up Korans and guess what their rally cry was?? you got it, 'Allah akbar'. Anyone who does'nt belive me look up file footage of their rallies. Also the serbs were getting pretty nationalistic too (im not gonna white wash this and say it was all the Muslims fault) SO there is still a controversy as to how the fighting started, Each side blamed the other. But suffice to say the Serbs and Muslims began fighting. The Serbs still in Serbia were giving guns , artillary , and what not to the Bosnian serbs. The Muslims raided armories and equipped thier militias but they were not doing that well. So eventually the Saudi and Iranians and what not started to flood weapons into the region, ALONG WITH MUJAHADEEN FIGHTERS. It was at this "escalation point" where Nato and the us put an embargo into effect on all sides. they did'nt want it to get worse. Now onto the whole "atrocities bullshit", Both sides did equal ethnic cleansing. But the Saudis hired a Jewish PR firm (how ironic!) to begin lobbing the capitol to take the side of the Muslims and warned Clinton that NOT taking the side of the Muslims WOULD PISS THE SAUDIS OFF. SO? klinton chose to side with the Mujahedeen. What does this have to do With Kosovo? Well essentially the same thing happened there, The media already behind the idea of  the "wicked serb" Just claimed all over again that there was ethnic cleansing and CLinton started the bombing. In fact the only Ethnic cleansing was done to the SERBS BY US! Now all the Serbs fear for their lives And most have moved out. linky more stuff this is just a small sampling, i suggest you look up the whole history of the KLA and "greater Albania" Milosvic was a fucking hero as is Arkan , Radcovic and all the other "defenders" of Europe from the ROPers.

Good post.

Quoted: Quoted: Heres the facts...we were there for political reasons. Period. End of story. No noble bullshit about "ethnic cleansing" or saving the muslims. It was political. If we truly gave a shit about ethnic cleansing, genocide, or saving people, we would've have been in Rwanada, South Africa, hell, just about everywhere in Africa. You are right, the West really doesn't give a damn about anything they can't spin into more votes or more money. Well, at least we agree here....but I don't know if its truely that the west doesn't care, so much that the leaders are very carefull not to do anything that is not politically expedient. Plus the way the left reacts when we loose a single military life the politicians are very careful on what they spend that capital on.... But there is no political clout or reward for risking things there. So we let them slaughter each other. Ultimately, I really don't care if Africa or the Balkans ethnically cleanse each other out of existance. It just doesn't affect me. Yep, next time I see a woman being raped/kidnapped/murdered, I am not going to help her... because it doesn't affect me. Let me know how you would feel if someone could of saved your sister/mother/wife/daughter from being killed, but they didn't because "it didn't concern them". If I am walking down the street and I see a woman being raped/kidnapped/murdered I would do something. But the internal politics in a country half way around the world, which doesn't really effect our lives doesn't mean much to me. It might to you, but it doesn't to me. Lets look at it this way. Say tomorrow you wake up, and something happened in the Balkans, where poof, everyone there is gone. Unless you have family there, is your say really going to be any different? I think not.... BUT the truth is the Serbs WERE just finally re-acting to centuries of crap from the muslims. If they were sick and tired of putting up with their bullshit, and wanted to end it for good, then they should be allowed to do what they want. And the Germans were just reacting to the centuries of history in Europe that put Jewish individuals at the top of the financial elite, stealing money from "honest Germans". Apples and oranges in my book, I can't really look at history and see where the Jews act like the muslims. But ultimately, again, as others have said, do you think anyone would have doen anything to stop the Germans if the just stuck to ethnically cleansing their own country, stayed within their borders? Nope... That is what the muslims do...look at history. Chechnya was not an ancestral muslim home. It was Christian, or at least non muslim, until the muslims started moving in thier in the late 1800's. Once they established themselves, they started to try to force the non mulsims out. Of course the Communists in the Soviet Union kept shit in check. The muslims started stirring, and they were ruthlessly crushed. Period. After the Soviet Empire fell, the muz in Chechnya had nothing to control them. Then you have the bullshit story in the press about the poor oppressed Chechyn rebels fighting to overthrow the Russians and regain their country. IT WASN"T THEIR COUNTRY TO BEGIN WITH, they invaded and multiplied and became a majority in a land which wasn't theirs. So we here about "freedom fighters" and "rebels" when the truth is, it is simply muslims trying to ethnically cleanse an area they slowly took over. So, if the Native Americans came to power in the US, and started oppressing white anglo-saxons and other ethnic groups; you would be a-okay with Native Americans killing off everyone else since this land wasn't ours in the first place? Well, if they did, they could certainly try, but i wouldn't sit there and wait for it to happen. I am sure, if I were a muslim born and raised in Chechnya, I would be doing what I thought was right. However I am not, I am a non-muslim, an infidel. That makes me a big 'ol target in the eyes of many muslims, so if push comes to shove, I must do what I must do... This is the way theu operate, read up on the history of islam over the centuries, it is SOP..... It is SOP for every group man, not just Muslims. It is human nature to expand, extend your borders, and eliminate those who stand in your way. The Muslims did it during their first few centuries of growth, and Europe did it when they came to the New World; both groups have continued their expansionistic goals, although the former is still going after new land/property/countries, while the later wants to conquer information/knowledge/money/global-power/etc. The muslims have been operating this way since day 1. If they get to a point here, in this country where they think they can win, and turn the US into an islamic theocracy...THEY WILL TRY, and that when it comes down to us versus them, and if it comes to that, we better be prepared to do what it takes, or lose. Period. Sorry, the Serbs were trying to act before it was too late. Did they do it the PC way? No....but we weren't there ultimately for any higher or noble reason. It was politics. If there were no political hay to be made, the Serbs would probably be finishing the job right about now....