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Posted: 3/11/2006 1:02:47 AM EDT
I was just wondering what you guys think the next big improvement in small arms will be? Im not talking 6.8 vs 5.56, we are talking revolutionary improvements in lethality, mobility, or functionality. For example the metal cartridge or the advent of rifled groves. I believe that we have reached the zenith of cased ammo design and the next big improvement to small arms technology will be the practical application of caseless rounds (ie adoption by a large standing army).
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:06:49 AM EDT
Wasn't the G11 a hair away from actually being adopted by Jerry?


Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:09:30 AM EDT
Built in immunity from gun grabbing liberals?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:12:27 AM EDT
Caseless or energy. I really cant even begin to fathom any large improvement over current cased firearms, unless somehow they can ramp up speeds to well over 5000 fps (Rail gun)
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:29:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:30:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 1:35:40 AM EDT by Disco_Stu_TX]

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Wasn't the G11 a hair away from actually being adopted by Jerry?

img230.imageshack.us/img230/6443/g11scope1os.jpg



I dont think it was a real contender for the conventional army, wasnt it up against the G3? But if it was adopted by the Bundeshwer (sp?) can you imagine the weapon we would have today?! The germans can take some crappy ideas and turn them into gold (SA-80/85). Thats why I dont think the USA will adopt a revolutionary rifle in the near future, we dont like teething problems.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:38:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By sherrick13:
The next big movement in small arms will be to non lethal stuff.



teah ...like an ultrasonic megaphone that makes you double over in pain, throw up and shit yer self
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:45:40 AM EDT
remote control shooters
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:47:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HillBillySasquatch:

Originally Posted By sherrick13:
The next big movement in small arms will be to non lethal stuff.



teah ...like an ultrasonic megaphone that makes you double over in pain, throw up and shit yer self



that's already available.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:48:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Disco_Stu_TX:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Wasn't the G11 a hair away from actually being adopted by Jerry?

img230.imageshack.us/img230/6443/g11scope1os.jpg



I dont think it was a real contender for the conventional army, wasnt it up against the G3? But if it was adopted by the Bundeshwer (sp?) can you imagine the weapon we would have today?! The germans can take some crappy ideas and turn them into gold (SA-80/85). Thats why I dont think the USA will adopt a revolutionary rifle in the near future, we dont like teething problems.


It would have replaced the G3, but the cold war ended so funding was dropped at the last minute.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:49:22 AM EDT
9x19 will be reconsidered as a non-lethal alternative to 45 ACP. Glocks will get a decent trigger. Revolution, I tell you!
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 1:56:46 AM EDT
Assuming the Japanese keep making the strides they have been in battery capacity & output perhaps man portable rail gun weapons.

I doubt anything smaller than vehicle mounted straight energy weapons are going to be in our lifetimes.

Frankly, though, I don't see that there is any need for small arms to move away from fixed ammunition as long as we're stuck on this planet.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:09:55 AM EDT
It will have to be something that replaces the use of gun powder. That will happen before energy weapons.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:12:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 2:25:03 AM EDT by Chairborne]

Originally Posted By Rakky:
It will have to be something that replaces the use of gun powder. That will happen before energy weapons.



Yep, I have been thinking about a firearm for a while that uses containerized fuel and oxidizer, the only tricky part is sealing the round from the chamber, but a sabot would cure that. It's only a matter of time until we get out of the 1800s with regards to small arms.


ETA: What I mean is a firearm that uses gaseous oxygen plus a fuel such as propane, hydrogen, acetylene, etc which is injected into the chamber just prior to firing by injectors such as those used on direct injection diesels and two stroke engines, capable of withstanding great pressures. The round itself would be fed by conventional means along with its disentegrating or discarding sabot into the breech. It really can't be all that hard to figure out, right? Variable charge would a a great benefit too, allowing lower power "training" shots that don't wear out the weapon, and higher power shots that will be more effective at greater range. You could even dial the power way down to "stun" I guess.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 2:58:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By Rakky:
It will have to be something that replaces the use of gun powder. That will happen before energy weapons.



Yep, I have been thinking about a firearm for a while that uses containerized fuel and oxidizer, the only tricky part is sealing the round from the chamber, but a sabot would cure that. It's only a matter of time until we get out of the 1800s with regards to small arms.


ETA: What I mean is a firearm that uses gaseous oxygen plus a fuel such as propane, hydrogen, acetylene, etc which is injected into the chamber just prior to firing by injectors such as those used on direct injection diesels and two stroke engines, capable of withstanding great pressures. The round itself would be fed by conventional means along with its disentegrating or discarding sabot into the breech. It really can't be all that hard to figure out, right? Variable charge would a a great benefit too, allowing lower power "training" shots that don't wear out the weapon, and higher power shots that will be more effective at greater range. You could even dial the power way down to "stun" I guess.



Interesting.

Were you aware that Tippmann is working on this?

-White Horse
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 3:10:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By White_horse:

Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By Rakky:
It will have to be something that replaces the use of gun powder. That will happen before energy weapons.



Yep, I have been thinking about a firearm for a while that uses containerized fuel and oxidizer, the only tricky part is sealing the round from the chamber, but a sabot would cure that. It's only a matter of time until we get out of the 1800s with regards to small arms.


ETA: What I mean is a firearm that uses gaseous oxygen plus a fuel such as propane, hydrogen, acetylene, etc which is injected into the chamber just prior to firing by injectors such as those used on direct injection diesels and two stroke engines, capable of withstanding great pressures. The round itself would be fed by conventional means along with its disentegrating or discarding sabot into the breech. It really can't be all that hard to figure out, right? Variable charge would a a great benefit too, allowing lower power "training" shots that don't wear out the weapon, and higher power shots that will be more effective at greater range. You could even dial the power way down to "stun" I guess.



Interesting.

Were you aware that Tippmann is working on this?

-White Horse



Cool, just replace the paintballs with lead and it should be nice.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 3:24:36 AM EDT
Energy weapons.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 3:57:33 AM EDT
what are energy weapons?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:01:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HillBillySasquatch:

Originally Posted By sherrick13:
The next big movement in small arms will be to non lethal stuff.



teah ...like an ultrasonic megaphone that makes you double over in pain, throw up and shit yer self




One of these that is as reliable/effective as a todays' duty weapon and is carried the same way .........

That could be possible in 10 or so years IMHO.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:04:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Shake:
what are energy weapons?



Well, since they don't exist yet, they can be whatever you want them to be.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:05:02 AM EDT
Man portable, propellant-less rail guns.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 4:50:37 AM EDT
Improved operators will go farther than new gimmicks.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:07:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 5:15:17 AM EDT by tesnevo]
Yea, what if we could get improved operators of arms instead of improved arms for the operators.
Imagine the possibilities.
People would own guns they "actually know how to shoot" instead of the newest, slickest, fanciest, guns with the most uber tactical turd diggers on it.
The implications of this do merit some thought.
I wonder if I can patent this idea?

I am in no way bashing the post starter or posters in this thread but what in the world else could we need? (God please don't let some one say for Glock to make a 1911 or steel frame)
Its all I can do to keep up with whats out there now. Every one makes what the other one makes except they think they make it better and they want $300.00 more for it.



BTW: I do wish that S&W would take that fancy new AR of theirs and dump it in the lake. But first I wish they would remove all of the M/P and S&W designations off of it. Talk about overkill on design lettering.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:21:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GreyHat:

Originally Posted By Disco_Stu_TX:

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Wasn't the G11 a hair away from actually being adopted by Jerry?

img230.imageshack.us/img230/6443/g11scope1os.jpg



I dont think it was a real contender for the conventional army, wasnt it up against the G3? But if it was adopted by the Bundeshwer (sp?) can you imagine the weapon we would have today?! The germans can take some crappy ideas and turn them into gold (SA-80/85). Thats why I dont think the USA will adopt a revolutionary rifle in the near future, we dont like teething problems.


It would have replaced the G3, but the cold war ended so funding was dropped at the last minute.



I was under the impression that they were still having problems with the caseless cartridges also.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:43:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tomislav:
Wasn't the G11 a hair away from actually being adopted by Jerry?

img230.imageshack.us/img230/6443/g11scope1os.jpg



Unlikely. Look at the pics at http://www.hkpro.com/g11.htm , it is the least gi-proof gun I've ever seen.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:46:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HillBillySasquatch:

Originally Posted By sherrick13:
The next big movement in small arms will be to non lethal stuff.



teah ...like an ultrasonic megaphone that makes you double over in pain, throw up and shit yer self


Oh so they want to use Rosie O'donell as a weapon?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:11:36 AM EDT

Oh so they want to use Rosie O'donell as a weapon?





Just flying over and dropping pics will do the job.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:27:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Chairborne:

Originally Posted By Rakky:
It will have to be something that replaces the use of gun powder. That will happen before energy weapons.



Yep, I have been thinking about a firearm for a while that uses containerized fuel and oxidizer, the only tricky part is sealing the round from the chamber, but a sabot would cure that. It's only a matter of time until we get out of the 1800s with regards to small arms.


ETA: What I mean is a firearm that uses gaseous oxygen plus a fuel such as propane, hydrogen, acetylene, etc which is injected into the chamber just prior to firing by injectors such as those used on direct injection diesels and two stroke engines, capable of withstanding great pressures. The round itself would be fed by conventional means along with its disentegrating or discarding sabot into the breech. It really can't be all that hard to figure out, right? Variable charge would a a great benefit too, allowing lower power "training" shots that don't wear out the weapon, and higher power shots that will be more effective at greater range. You could even dial the power way down to "stun" I guess.



Thats what I have always thought too.....problem always comes up is bleed off.....if you have a round in the chamber and the chamber is full of gas, how would you keep the chamber from bleeding off over several days, weeks, months, etc. Still, thats the concept that I always thought would replace regular ammo.....
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