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Posted: 3/10/2006 11:03:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 11:46:17 PM EDT by DoctorCheney223]
We have a discussion going on in our NV Hometown thread regarding a tragic accident involving a NV Highway Patrol officer and car full of Mexicans here illegaly. The officer was speeding at 119 MPH (he did not have sirens or lights on) and struck the rear of a Cadillac and four passengers (all male) were killed and a pregnant 16 year-old with twins was in a coma.

Here is a link to our thread and the story behind it

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=22&t=226169&page=1

old question: Here is my question: Is a car full of Americans who were killed in a car accident worth more than a car full of illegal immigrants killed in a car accident or is a life a life and we respect it as that?:old question

I should have worded it different. Here is what I MEANT TO ASK: Would it make a difference if the family killed were American and not illegal aliens? Do you think the public outrage would be different?

Also.. I am NOT an advocate of illegals coming across the borders. I just think ALL human life is equal.



thanks,
Ron
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:05:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 11:17:41 PM EDT by bastiat]
And before anyone accuses people of racism for their positions, remember that a lot of the people on this board that are most against illegal immigration are actualy hispanic.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:05:38 PM EDT
this thread cannot end well.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:05:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 11:06:45 PM EDT by tnek]
My first, first IBTL, but its not an issue of who is worth more, they shouldnt be in this country.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:06:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:12:45 PM EDT
What does 'worth' have to do with it? The illegals should not have been there.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:15:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoctorCheney223:
We have a discussion going on in our NV Hometown thread regarding a tragic accident involving a NV Highway Patrol officer and car full of Mexicans here illegaly. The officer was speeding at 119 MPH (he did not have sirens or lights on) and struck the rear of a Cadillac and four passengers (all male) were killed and a pregnant 16 year-old with twins was in a coma.

Here is a link to our thread and the story behind it

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=22&t=226169&page=1

Here is my question: Is a car full of Americans who were killed in a car accident worth more than a car full of illegal immigrants killed in a car accident or is a life a life and we respect it as that?

thanks,
Ron



Most stupid Post Ever!!!
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:15:37 PM EDT
When someone breaks into the home of a lawful Citizen and is killed in self-defense, it is better
than when a criminal breaks into the home of a lawful Citizen and kills the Citizen, isn't it?
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:19:31 PM EDT
This thread can go down hill quickly, but if they weren't here breaking our countries laws
it wouldn't have happened. take it any way you want. I don't care
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:21:09 PM EDT
One American killed is worse than 12,586,593 Mexicans killed.

Next question?
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:22:08 PM EDT
im not sorry when any illegal is killed. if the person was from another country and is here legally im very sorry. when you ignore the law by coming here i could careless if you get ended.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:24:22 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 89grand:
One American killed is worse than 12,586,593 Mexicans killed.

Next question?




+1
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:24:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Wolfpack:

They broke the law coming here illegally. I don't feel bad for people committing a felony that die. How much you wanna bet me the car they were driving in was uninsured?



I don't think that illegal immigration warrants a death penalty. However, I don't think that it is the responsability of our state(s) to safeguard illegal immigrants. That is the responsability of the state that they came from, and if they had stayed there (or come here legally) then they would have the right to demand that their state take some steps to protect them.

That said, from the description in this thread the actions of the cop who was speeding should be investigated and dealt with appropriately. It sounds as if he was driving recklessly and was a danger to people. The fact that he killed illegals is irrelevent. He could just as easily killed a car load of citizens.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:24:37 PM EDT
1 dollar = approx 11 pesos........so yes, Americans are worth more.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:26:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 11:27:32 PM EDT by HarrySacz]
Well if they had stayed where they should have been they would still be alive. TOUGH SHIT.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:27:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By CSeaBass:

Originally Posted By 89grand:
One American killed is worse than 12,586,593 Mexicans killed.

Next question?




+1



+ another 12,586,593
(there are more than 12mil here)
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:28:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
from the description in this thread the actions of the cop who was speeding should be investigated and dealt with appropriately. It sounds as if he was driving recklessly and was a danger to people. The fact that he killed illegals is irrelevent. He could just as easily killed a car load of citizens.



+1
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:29:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TheTracker:
This thread can go down hill quickly, but if they weren't here breaking our countries laws
it wouldn't have happened. take it any way you want. I don't care



There is an interesting point here, but I don't quite agree with you.

Illegals take risks to come here in hopes of finding a better life. Usually they are at greater risk of dying where they came from, either for political reasons or because violent crime involving drugs is rampant or because of poverty and disease or whatever. They usually are risking their lives by enduring dangerous conditions to get here in the first place.

So, to say that it would not have happened if they stayed at home is not entirely accurate, but it can be said that they decided to risk their lives in hopes of increasing their odds of survival by coming here. Most illegals who come here don't end up dead as far as I know.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:30:16 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:34:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 11:36:56 PM EDT by TheTracker]

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By TheTracker:
This thread can go down hill quickly, but if they weren't here breaking our countries laws
it wouldn't have happened. take it any way you want. I don't care



There is an interesting point here, but I don't quite agree with you.

Illegals take risks to come here in hopes of finding a better life. Usually they are at greater risk of dying where they came from, either for political reasons or because violent crime involving drugs is rampant or because of poverty and disease or whatever. They usually are risking their lives by enduring dangerous conditions to get here in the first place.

So, to say that it would not have happened if they stayed at home is not entirely accurate, but it can be said that they decided to risk their lives in hopes of increasing their odds of survival by coming here. Most illegals who come here don't end up dead as far as I know.



You can get killed walking you're doggie. First time I ever used that line,From Heat
bottom line they all wouldn't have been killed that day together, if they stayed where they were
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:36:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mall-Ninja:
this thread cannot end well.



plus uno.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:37:11 PM EDT
National origins have nothing to do with it. Legality of their presence has nothing to do with it. The cop was wrong, should be charged just as any other "citizen" would be. If he is or not, will just be fodder for another thread about whether cops have to live up to the same laws we do. I tend to believe they aren't held to the same standards, unless it's a highly visible case.

Yes, I do believe a Mexican life is as valuable as an Americans, unless it's a combat "us against them" issue. BUT, if they are here illegally, breaking laws, or whatever, then I put them in the same boat as American citizens who are doing wrong.

But whether or not these people were here illegally, it does not make it okay for that cop to be doing 119 mph without lights or sirens. And unless there's a nuke about to go off that only he can stop, I can't see any reason a cop needs to be going that fast.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:38:11 PM EDT
Whos life is more important: A roach or an illegal alien?

Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:39:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rakky:
National origins have nothing to do with it. Legality of their presence has nothing to do with it. The cop was wrong, should be charged just as any other "citizen" would be. If he is or not, will just be fodder for another thread about whether cops have to live up to the same laws we do. I tend to believe they aren't held to the same standards, unless it's a highly visible case.

Yes, I do believe a Mexican life is as valuable as an Americans, unless it's a combat "us against them" issue. BUT, if they are here illegally, breaking laws, or whatever, then I put them in the same boat as American citizens who are doing wrong.

But whether or not these people were here illegally, it does not make it okay for that cop to be doing 119 mph without lights or sirens. And unless there's a nuke about to go off that only he can stop, I can't see any reason a cop needs to be going that fast.



I am in no way defending the actions of the officer driving like that. but that's not what we were talking about.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:39:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rakky:
National origins have nothing to do with it. Legality of their presence has nothing to do with it. The cop was wrong, should be charged just as any other "citizen" would be. If he is or not, will just be fodder for another thread about whether cops have to live up to the same laws we do. I tend to believe they aren't held to the same standards, unless it's a highly visible case.

Yes, I do believe a Mexican life is as valuable as an Americans, unless it's a combat "us against them" issue. BUT, if they are here illegally, breaking laws, or whatever, then I put them in the same boat as American citizens who are doing wrong.

But whether or not these people were here illegally, it does not make it okay for that cop to be doing 119 mph without lights or sirens. And unless there's a nuke about to go off that only he can stop, I can't see any reason a cop needs to be going that fast.



Did I forgot to mention that Jack Bauer was driving

thanks,
Ron
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:40:38 PM EDT
I would say that the American Citizen is worth much more than a law breaking Illegal.

Next....
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:41:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GhostRing:

Originally Posted By Mall-Ninja:
this thread cannot end well.



plus uno.

uno mas
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:42:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DoctorCheney223:
Is a car full of Americans who were killed in a car accident worth more than a car full of illegal immigrants ...



Yes. Next question?

Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:45:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rakky:
National origins have nothing to do with it.


As an American I disagree. The lives of my countrymen are worth more than the lives of those who are not my countrymen.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:47:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Rakky:
National origins have nothing to do with it. Legality of their presence has nothing to do with it. The cop was wrong, should be charged just as any other "citizen" would be. If he is or not, will just be fodder for another thread about whether cops have to live up to the same laws we do. I tend to believe they aren't held to the same standards, unless it's a highly visible case.

Yes, I do believe a Mexican life is as valuable as an Americans, unless it's a combat "us against them" issue. BUT, if they are here illegally, breaking laws, or whatever, then I put them in the same boat as American citizens who are doing wrong.

But whether or not these people were here illegally, it does not make it okay for that cop to be doing 119 mph without lights or sirens. And unless there's a nuke about to go off that only he can stop, I can't see any reason a cop needs to be going that fast.



+1, the fact that they are illegals should not facter in because it could have been a car full of kids. IMHO, the cop was wrong to be driving that fast unless there if life at risk and even then, innocents were killed.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:48:48 PM EDT

I should have worded it different. Here is what I MEANT TO ASK: Would it make a difference if the family killed were American and not illegal aliens? Do you think the public outrage would be different?


Unless he has a VERY good reason, IMO the Cop was wrong no matter who was in the vehicle
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:49:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Rakky:
National origins have nothing to do with it.


As an American I disagree. The lives of my countrymen are worth more than the lives of those who are not my countrymen.



Getting close there to a good arguement. In a time of war (um, we're in one now) there needs to be a bit more unification of who in the hell is going to fight for "us"


Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:51:29 PM EDT
To put it in monetary value:

American life = $85,450
Illegal Alien = 15 pesos
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:51:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 11:52:43 PM EDT by TheTracker]

Originally Posted By DoctorCheney223:
We have a discussion going on in our NV Hometown thread regarding a tragic accident involving a NV Highway Patrol officer and car full of Mexicans here illegaly. The officer was speeding at 119 MPH (he did not have sirens or lights on) and struck the rear of a Cadillac and four passengers (all male) were killed and a pregnant 16 year-old with twins was in a coma.

Here is a link to our thread and the story behind it

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=22&t=226169&page=1

old question: Here is my question: Is a car full of Americans who were killed in a car accident worth more than a car full of illegal immigrants killed in a car accident or is a life a life and we respect it as that?:old question

I should have worded it different. Here is what I MEANT TO ASK: Would it make a difference if the family killed were American and not illegal aliens? Do you think the public outrage would be different?

Also.. I am NOT an advocate of illegals coming across the borders. I just think ALL human life is equal.



thanks,
Ron



I know that the public reaction would be different, just like if someone kills a schoolbus full of americain children in a crash or a tour bus full of foreign tourists in a crash
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:03:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 12:04:46 AM EDT by Rakky]

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Rakky:
National origins have nothing to do with it.


As an American I disagree. The lives of my countrymen are worth more than the lives of those who are not my countrymen.



So a crack addict robbing your home for things to pawn is better than an illegal that has no criminal tendencies? I'm not for illegals AT ALL, but that's just stupid.

ETA
I'm an American, too. I guess my reply was un-American.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:08:28 AM EDT
Because illegal imigrants are not citicens they have no garunteed rights in America and it should stay that way. Because they have no garunteed rights under our government they are not important to our government because it owes them nothing, and that is the way it should be. They are breaking the law, if you want them to have what we have then they must be citicens, and if they are citicens then they are suceptible to our laws and must pay taxes. There is a very real problem that illegal immigrants weigh down our social services, the problem is really that we have too mutch social service in my opinion. If we did not have all the social services that we have there would be significantly less economical problem to their being here.
I feel that when illegals break the law they should not be allowed our legal systems graces that are given to Americans and they should be delt with swiftly as to not burden the recources of our country. Granted we should not be cruel to them but if they came over illegaly then they should be shipped out, no free room and board in our facilities, and no appeals.
Of course I feel that police officers should be held accountable like normal citicens, everyone in America is a citicen, we have no king, no one who is above the law. I am not quite sure if the law differentiates between citicen and non citicen when it comes to such legal matters as this case, but given they are breaking the law just by being here it would stand to reason that the officer should not be held accountable for their breaking the law. If someone was running from the police and they ran out into trafic and you hit them should you be accountable for killing them? I feel that their law breaking has nullified their claims against you and since an illegal has no claims to begin with I do not feel that the officer should be held accountable in any legal way.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:12:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rakky:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Rakky:
National origins have nothing to do with it.


As an American I disagree. The lives of my countrymen are worth more than the lives of those who are not my countrymen.



So a crack addict robbing your home for things to pawn is better than an illegal that has no criminal tendencies? I'm not for illegals AT ALL, but that's just stupid.

ETA
I'm an American, too. I guess my reply was un-American.



In your example, aren't you illustrating their worth relative to each other(both illegals)?

I don't see that either one them is worth the life of a law-abiding American Citizen
btw: the US would extradite to mexico for a capital offense, they will not do the same
So, one could draw the conclusion that mexico values their people more than ours
And, it doesn't seem to matter what country they are in, or what crimes they commit
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:20:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By Rakky:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Rakky:
National origins have nothing to do with it.


As an American I disagree. The lives of my countrymen are worth more than the lives of those who are not my countrymen.



So a crack addict robbing your home for things to pawn is better than an illegal that has no criminal tendencies? I'm not for illegals AT ALL, but that's just stupid.

ETA
I'm an American, too. I guess my reply was un-American.



In your example, aren't you illustrating their worth relative to each other(both illegals)?

I don't see that either one them is worth the life of a law-abiding American Citizen
btw: the US would extradite to mexico for a capital offense, they will not do the same
So, one could draw the conclusion that mexico values their people more than ours
And, it doesn't seem to matter what country they are in, or what crimes they commit



Doesn't matter. You started the post asking if a Mexican's life was worth less than an American's. You never stated law abiding or not.
In the case you referenced, I'd say yes, the lives of those Mexicans in that car, providing their only crime was being here illegally, is more valuable than a full blooded, born and bred American crack addict.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:25:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By rara1141:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Rakky:
National origins have nothing to do with it.


As an American I disagree. The lives of my countrymen are worth more than the lives of those who are not my countrymen.



Getting close there to a good arguement. In a time of war (um, we're in one now) there needs to be a bit more unification of who in the hell is going to fight for "us"




My dad who legally immigtrated (natrualized in the early 60's) here joined the army as the VERY 1ST thing he did as a now US citizen. He came from Baja California. So he did value being a US citizen more than where he came from. That's why he came here. But did it legally and served in the armed forces.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:25:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 12:26:49 AM EDT by 22bad]

Originally Posted By Rakky:

Originally Posted By 22bad:

Originally Posted By Rakky:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By Rakky:
National origins have nothing to do with it.


As an American I disagree. The lives of my countrymen are worth more than the lives of those who are not my countrymen.



So a crack addict robbing your home for things to pawn is better than an illegal that has no criminal tendencies? I'm not for illegals AT ALL, but that's just stupid.

ETA
I'm an American, too. I guess my reply was un-American.



In your example, aren't you illustrating their worth relative to each other(both illegals)?

I don't see that either one them is worth the life of a law-abiding American Citizen
btw: the US would extradite to mexico for a capital offense, they will not do the same
So, one could draw the conclusion that mexico values their people more than ours
And, it doesn't seem to matter what country they are in, or what crimes they commit



Doesn't matter. You started the post asking if a Mexican's life was worth less than an American's. You never stated law abiding or not.
In the case you referenced, I'd say yes, the lives of those Mexicans in that car, providing their only crime was being here illegally, is more valuable than a full blooded, born and bred American crack addict.



A) I think you have me confused with someone else
B) I believe that the crack addict will cause less damage(crime AND Taxpayer money)
than the ONE woman\girl pregnant with twins will over the next 18 years(a LOT less)

Here is MY first post in this thread


When someone breaks into the home of a lawful Citizen and is killed in self-defense, it is better
than when a criminal breaks into the home of a lawful Citizen and kills the Citizen, isn't it?

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:39:24 AM EDT
They are just dying the deaths American citizens won't die.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:46:11 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
A) I think you have me confused with someone else



Sorry, since it was a thread about illegals, I naturally thought you had started it.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:46:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 12:47:56 AM EDT by Big_Louie]
The life of a productive member of society is more valuable than the life of a criminal or welfare spawn. Race, country of origin, none of that really matters. People are either decent or scum.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 12:47:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 12:49:11 AM EDT by 22bad]

Originally Posted By Rakky:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
A) I think you have me confused with someone else



Sorry, since it was a thread about illegals, I naturally thought you had started it.



Yup, I can see where anyone could easily make that mistake
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 5:57:59 AM EDT
I can't believe that this thread made it through the night.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:04:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoctorCheney223:

old question: ere is my question: Is a car full of Americans who were killed in a car accident worth more than a car full of illegal immigrants killed in a car accident or is a life a life and we respect it as that?



Yes, an American life is worth more then a Mexican life, it's simple math.

Average American makes around $40k a year, lives in the best country in the world (healthcare, freedom, etc), and has the most opportunity (education, employment, investments, etc).

Average Mexican makes under 10ka year, 3rd world country (poor healthcare, not many freedoms, etc), and doesn't have a lot of opportunity (education, employment, etc).

Loads of other disparities explained:

www.newint.org/issue251/facts.htm

When all added together (earnings in a lifetime, health care systems, literacy, educational opportunities, employment opportunities, liberties, freedoms, etc) an American life is worth much more then a Mexican life.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:11:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:12:12 AM EDT
I believe that every life belongs to God and only He can assign more or less meaning to an individual. My understanding is that as far as we are concerned, every life is equal.

That said, if you go someplace illegally or put yourself in a compromising position, then you bear a large amount of responsibility if/when something bad happens to you. So although I believe those lives may well have been just as important to God as any of us, my sympathy for them is severely degraded because of the responsibility they share for their situation.

How's that?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:26:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DoctorCheney223:

Also.. I am NOT an advocate of illegals coming across the borders. I just think ALL human life is equal.



thanks,
Ron



You are also wrong. See the 14th Amendment. "Mexicans", do not fall under the jurisdiction of the United States, therefore have no standing, therefore are "worth" less.

Or just plain worthless, depending on how ya look at it.........

AMERICANS, will fight for their freedom, mexicans run to another country!!!

What is THAT worth???????????/
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:31:43 AM EDT
they're illegal, deserve no rights, so no I couldn't care less about them.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:38:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 6:42:18 AM EDT by Paul]
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