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Posted: 3/10/2006 4:29:41 AM EDT
seems like once every couple years i have to send the 1911 in for a trigger job, tune up or do some sort of work to the extractor. it's pissing me off so i am "upgrading".

i am thinking of selling it and getting a HK USP TACTICAL.
i know it does not have the 1911 trigger but then nothing does.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 4:47:33 AM EDT
What kind of parts are you using, and who is doing the work? My oldest 1911, a SA, has many thousands of rounds through it, and while the trigger is not as crisp as it once was, it is still better than perfectly serviceable, and I've only tweaked the extractor once. Good parts and a good smith are the key.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 4:50:18 AM EDT
Are you dropping the slide on an empty chamber ? That is the best way to screw up a good trigger job. I'd be curious as to what parts and smith you used. I've got three gov't models that each have well over 16k rounds through them and they are as good as the day they came home from the smith.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 4:59:10 AM EDT
Hmmmmm..............

I've put over 10K rounds thru my 1911 THIS YEAR ALONE and I have very few problems with it.
Seriously, if you're not putting much lead down range and you are having problems with it,
I'd either find a new gunsmith or, better yet, learn to do all the fun stuff yourself.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:01:02 AM EDT
My Glock has never needed a tune up....
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:03:34 AM EDT
I suppose if you put crap parts in it you'll have that result. Buy Wilson bulletproof or Ed Brown Hardcore and you'll never need to mess with it.

If you have to retune it every few years you're likely shooting a whole lot....like 30K+ per year.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:10:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:12:34 AM EDT
My Kimbers don't need much in the way of tuning. The HK has the most pronounced muzzle flip of any 45 I,ve tried, no thanks.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:17:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Sader762:
Hmmmmm..............

I've put over 10K rounds thru my 1911 THIS YEAR ALONE and I have very few problems with it.
Seriously, if you're not putting much lead down range and you are having problems with it,
I'd either find a new gunsmith or, better yet, learn to do all the fun stuff yourself.


Wow. I need to come hang out with you.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:25:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:26:08 AM EDT
One of the best ways to f**k up the extractor on a 1911 is to drop the slide with a round in the chamber. The 1911 extractor is NOT intended to "snap over" the rim of a cartridge that's already in the chamber.
If this is something that you've been doing. STOP!
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:26:55 AM EDT
My 1911 has never needed tuning.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:28:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jasba:
My Glock has never needed a tune up....



+1
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:29:37 AM EDT
Uh...

First, you CAN do these things yourself. Damn, even Bill Wilson had to do it a first time...

But second, and more important, I've never had these problems with my Glock's either!
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 5:31:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Coolio:
One of the best ways to f**k up the extractor on a 1911 is to drop the slide with a round in the chamber. The 1911 extractor is NOT intended to "snap over" the rim of a cartridge that's already in the chamber.
If this is something that you've been doing. STOP!



Hmm... good point.

Most folks don't realize this... especially when they see their dealer drop the slide on an empty chamber
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:05:59 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jasba:
My Glock has never needed a tune up....



No point in polishing a turd.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:11:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jasba:
My Glock has never needed a tune up....



Uh-huh.

Was this before the latest in a long list of "improvements" (fix/recall).
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:22:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pyro6988:

Originally Posted By Jasba:
My Glock has never needed a tune up....



+1



And not one of the over two dozen 1911s I've owned has ever needed a tune-up either.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:30:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By pyro6988:

Originally Posted By Jasba:
My Glock has never needed a tune up....



+1



And not one of the over two dozen 1911s I've owned has ever needed a tune-up either.




Yeah you just replace them after a KB

Sounds like HK940 is dropping the slide on an empty chamber, this will screw a 1911's trigger job.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:33:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 7:34:09 AM EDT by macman37]
Tag for info. The Deflocculator has to be doing something wrong.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:36:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
Tag for info. The Deflocculator has to be doing something wrong.



Or doesnt actually have a 1911 and just likes to stir up shit.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:37:30 AM EDT
You need a better tuner.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:39:07 AM EDT
yep, i guess i have been breaking my toys.

now i know
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:43:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 7:44:10 AM EDT by macman37]

Originally Posted By hk940:
yep, i guess i have been breaking my toys.

now i know



OK what were you doing...?

Edit: If you're just looking for a reason to buy an HK, just do it, don't bag on your 1911! New toy purchases never need justification!
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:55:26 AM EDT


I hate it when my 1911 needs tuning. It seems like I need to send it out every coupld months.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:28:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Silver_Surfer:

Originally Posted By RikWriter:

Originally Posted By pyro6988:

Originally Posted By Jasba:
My Glock has never needed a tune up....



+1



And not one of the over two dozen 1911s I've owned has ever needed a tune-up either.




Yeah you just replace them after a KB



Why did you quote me? I don't even own a Glock.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:31:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Coolio:
One of the best ways to f**k up the extractor on a 1911 is to drop the slide with a round in the chamber. The 1911 extractor is NOT intended to "snap over" the rim of a cartridge that's already in the chamber.
If this is something that you've been doing. STOP!




?

Drop the slide with a round already in the chamber?

Why would a person do that?
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:32:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By Coolio:
One of the best ways to f**k up the extractor on a 1911 is to drop the slide with a round in the chamber. The 1911 extractor is NOT intended to "snap over" the rim of a cartridge that's already in the chamber.
If this is something that you've been doing. STOP!




?

Drop the slide with a round already in the chamber?

Why would a person do that?



Because stupidity knows no bounds...
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:41:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:
Are you dropping the slide on an empty chamber ? That is the best way to screw up a good trigger job.



Are you serious?

What about making sure the weapon is clear. I drop slides on empty weapons constantly.

Is this just true for modern 1911s? I've never had a problem with WWI or WWII vintage 1911s.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:43:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 9:44:51 AM EDT by PAEBR332]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:
Are you dropping the slide on an empty chamber ? That is the best way to screw up a good trigger job.



Are you serious?

What about making sure the weapon is clear. I drop slides on empty weapons constantly.

Is this just true for modern 1911s? I've never had a problem with WWI or WWII vintage 1911s.



Dropping the slide on an empty 1911 is bad for. It can ruin the sear engagement. Your WWI and WWII vintage 1911s most likely already had messed up sears when you got them.

You should always LOWER the slide on an empty 1911.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:45:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 9:45:39 AM EDT by SteyrAUG]

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:
Are you dropping the slide on an empty chamber ? That is the best way to screw up a good trigger job.



Are you serious?

What about making sure the weapon is clear. I drop slides on empty weapons constantly.

Is this just true for modern 1911s? I've never had a problem with WWI or WWII vintage 1911s.



Dropping the slide on an empty 1911 is bad for. It can ruin the sear engagement. Your WWI and WWII vintage 1911s most likely already had messed up sears when you got them.



So again, in the course of making sure weapons are clear, isn't this a terrible "weak link"?
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:46:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:
Are you dropping the slide on an empty chamber ? That is the best way to screw up a good trigger job.



Are you serious?

What about making sure the weapon is clear. I drop slides on empty weapons constantly.

Is this just true for modern 1911s? I've never had a problem with WWI or WWII vintage 1911s.



Dropping the slide on an empty 1911 is bad for. It can ruin the sear engagement. Your WWI and WWII vintage 1911s most likely already had messed up sears when you got them.



So again, in the course of making sure weapons are secure, isn't this a terrible "weak link"?



Lower the slide. Don't let it slam.

Having the world's best feeling handgun trigger comes at a very small price in how you handle the weapon when empty.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:55:08 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:


Lower the slide. Don't let it slam.

Having the world's best feeling handgun trigger comes at a very small price in how you handle the weapon when empty.



So I gotta wonder...if the slide slamming on an empty chamber can screw it up...how does the slide slamming on a loaded chamber NOT screw it up?
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:55:14 AM EDT
Wow, never knew the 11 was such a sensitive bitch.

Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:56:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Wow, never knew the 11 was such a sensitive bitch.




Tell me bout it...only handgun I've ever heard of where dropping the slide empty can fuxor it.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 10:00:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 10:04:32 AM EDT by PAEBR332]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:
Wow, never knew the 11 was such a sensitive bitch.




Tell me bout it...only handgun I've ever heard of where dropping the slide empty can fuxor it.



No, it just makes the trigger feel worse. And a bad 1911 trigger is STILL better than that of virtually every other handgun.

ETA: Your WWI 1911s are at least 87 years old, and have probably been abused like this for decades. Apparently, they are not all fuxored up, at least not enough that you ever noticed it...
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 10:03:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 10:05:39 AM EDT by u-baddog]

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:
Are you dropping the slide on an empty chamber ? That is the best way to screw up a good trigger job. I'd be curious as to what parts and smith you used. I've got three gov't models that each have well over 16k rounds through them and they are as good as the day they came home from the smith.


see above
Would you be so kind as to explain the reason why dropping the slide on an empty chamber is bad ?
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 10:06:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By u-baddog:

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:
Are you dropping the slide on an empty chamber ? That is the best way to screw up a good trigger job. I'd be curious as to what parts and smith you used. I've got three gov't models that each have well over 16k rounds through them and they are as good as the day they came home from the smith.


see above
Would you be so kind as to explain the reason why dropping the slide on an empty chamber is bad ?



www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/drop_slide_empty.htm
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 10:07:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:

ETA: Your WWI 1911s are at least 87 years old, and have probably been abused like this for decades. Apparently, they are not all fuxored up.



Actually one is a first year so it's 95 years old. The trigger feels the same as any other 1911 I've ever shot. That is why I asked if this is only a issue with modern 1911s because mine seem to be exempt and I've dropped slides on all of them hundreds of times.

The only thing wrong with them is they don't group very tight anymore and are low and to the right. But that is from massive use, they still got a little rifling in those barrels.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 11:36:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Spade:

Originally Posted By Coolio:
One of the best ways to f**k up the extractor on a 1911 is to drop the slide with a round in the chamber. The 1911 extractor is NOT intended to "snap over" the rim of a cartridge that's already in the chamber.
If this is something that you've been doing. STOP!




?

Drop the slide with a round already in the chamber?

Why would a person do that?



The usual reason, Spade, is that it can happen if the pistol FTFs.
The pistol partially chambers a round and jams. The user then pulls the slide back to clear and the round chambers simply by gravity. The user then drops the slide and either fires, or uses the extractor to pull the damaged round back out of the chamber.

This is doubly bad because it's twice as hard to diagnose a faulty pistol that has multiple problems. One starts out with a bad magazine which is causing FTFs. And then ends up with a pistol which is not working right because of both a faulty mag AND a damaged extractor.

There are other paths to this same outcome, but the above example gives you the general idea.

Link Posted: 3/10/2006 12:34:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/11/2006 9:59:59 AM EDT by nationwide]

Originally Posted By SteyrAUG:

Originally Posted By PAEBR332:


Lower the slide. Don't let it slam.

Having the world's best feeling handgun trigger comes at a very small price in how you handle the weapon when empty.



So I gotta wonder...if the slide slamming on an empty chamber can screw it up...how does the slide slamming on a loaded chamber NOT screw it up?



Easy.

The internal extractor on a 1911 is a leaf spring. It is made of steel.

When you drop the slide on a round, there is give in the casing, which is made of brass (at least until recent years). on a charged magazine, you "strip" a round from the mag, and the rim of the case rides into the extractor, as originally designed. When you drop the slide on an empty chamber, you are slamming a steel spring in a direction it was not inteded to go, against a similary hard steel slide. The slide wins, and the extractor can become out of spec, and lose it's tension. Hope that helps.

BTW, this is not a problem on external extractor weapons.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 12:38:44 PM EDT
hk940- Talk to us about this 1911 of yours. Manufacture? What causes this malady that requires "tuning" every couple of years?
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 12:41:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 12:44:31 PM EDT by WizardOfAhs]

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:
Are you dropping the slide on an empty chamber ? That is the best way to screw up a good trigger job. I'd be curious as to what parts and smith you used. I've got three gov't models that each have well over 16k rounds through them and they are as good as the day they came home from the smith.



That's a funny one! But... WRONG! Dropping the slide on an EMPTY chambe produces significantly LESS shock to pistol that actually firing it, and, mechanically, does nothing to the action. If you have a trigger that gets sloppy from dropping the slide, either your gunsmith sucks or your using shit parts.

ETA: Removed pesky typo

ETA some more:

It's no surprise that you have 3 govt models with 16k + rounds through it and it's still rocks and socks as good today as it did when ya brought 'em home. If anything, a little usage makes 'em all the sweeter!
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 12:42:51 PM EDT
I have to tune my 911 all the time... change the oil.. tune the carbs... set the timing...



Oh, you said 1911! You shouldn't have to dick with it THAT much. You must be doing something unhealthy to it.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 12:46:17 PM EDT
Hah, I one up you guys.

Both my Kimber AND my Glock are at their respsective companies getting fixed.

The kimber is a turd due to the whole external extractor thing(frame is out of spec as well) and the glock, I don't know what's wrong with it.

The trigger is really heavy and extraction isn't any better then the kimber was.

Go figure.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 12:46:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WizardOfAhs:

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:
Are you dropping the slide on an empty chamber ? That is the best way to screw up a good trigger job. I'd be curious as to what parts and smith you used. I've got three gov't models that each have well over 16k rounds through them and they are as good as the day they came home from the smith.



That's a funny one! But... WRONG! Dropping the slide on an EMPTY chambe produces significantly LESS shock to pistol that actually firing it, and, mechanically, does nothing to the action. If you have a trigger that gets sloppy from dropping the slide, either your gunsmith sucks or your using shit parts.

ETA: Removed pesky typo

ETA some more:

It's no surprise that you have 3 govt models with 16k + rounds through it and it's still rocks and socks as good today as it did when ya brought 'em home. If anything, a little usage makes 'em all the sweeter!





Well, it's true that dropping the slide has zip, zero, nadda to do with your trigger pull.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 12:49:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 12:50:31 PM EDT by WizardOfAhs]

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By WizardOfAhs:

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:
Are you dropping the slide on an empty chamber ? That is the best way to screw up a good trigger job. I'd be curious as to what parts and smith you used. I've got three gov't models that each have well over 16k rounds through them and they are as good as the day they came home from the smith.



That's a funny one! But... WRONG! Dropping the slide on an EMPTY chambe produces significantly LESS shock to pistol that actually firing it, and, mechanically, does nothing to the action. If you have a trigger that gets sloppy from dropping the slide, either your gunsmith sucks or your using shit parts.

ETA: Removed pesky typo

ETA some more:

It's no surprise that you have 3 govt models with 16k + rounds through it and it's still rocks and socks as good today as it did when ya brought 'em home. If anything, a little usage makes 'em all the sweeter!





Well, it's true that dropping the slide has zip, zero, nadda to do with your trigger pull.



However, dropping the slide on one's TRIGGER finger can sure mess up one's trigger pull!
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 12:50:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By WizardOfAhs:

Originally Posted By nationwide:

Originally Posted By WizardOfAhs:

Originally Posted By AcidGambit:
Are you dropping the slide on an empty chamber ? That is the best way to screw up a good trigger job. I'd be curious as to what parts and smith you used. I've got three gov't models that each have well over 16k rounds through them and they are as good as the day they came home from the smith.



That's a funny one! But... WRONG! Dropping the slide on an EMPTY chambe produces significantly LESS shock to pistol that actually firing it, and, mechanically, does nothing to the action. If you have a trigger that gets sloppy from dropping the slide, either your gunsmith sucks or your using shit parts.

ETA: Removed pesky typo

ETA some more:

It's no surprise that you have 3 govt models with 16k + rounds through it and it's still rocks and socks as good today as it did when ya brought 'em home. If anything, a little usage makes 'em all the sweeter!





Well, it's true that dropping the slide has zip, zero, nadda to do with your trigger pull.



However, dropping the slide on one's TRIGGER finger can sure mess up one's trigger pull!



FUGGIN A!!!
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 10:15:20 PM EDT

Originally Posted By macman37:
hk940- Talk to us about this 1911 of yours. Manufacture? What causes this malady that requires "tuning" every couple of years?



not sure but I can say why… it’s a Kimber custom that has been modified but has factory trigger hammer sear, the trigger has been set so its on a razor edge. Almost no over travel. Maybe 1/10” but I have not measured it. 2.5-3# break and there is a set amount of take up but no weight to the “stage”. It breaks and bang. The problem is Keeping it there seems to require tuning every couple years or it gets sloppy and not “super ninja” tight. Sure its not a combat gun. More of a fun range gun and its so sweet when it is on top of it’s game I hate to not keep it there.

Other issues were
The extractor needed to be tuned once and at that time all springs were replaced with Wilson combat??? Not sure. Work done because it was throwing rounds back into my face.

Safety was replaced I wanted an ambi so no fault of the gun and they added a new link and new match bushing. (again to tighten it up)

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:08:11 AM EDT
From my understanding(according to the 1911 sites) dropping the slide on a empty chamber will fuxxor up the sear engagment area and slowly make your trigger job not what it once was.

The reason why it's no big deal when firing when entering a new round or firing is that the round itself centering in the chamber and taking up the headspace somehow buffers it enough to make it ok.

Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:16:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hk940:
seems like once every couple years i have to send the 1911 in for a trigger job, tune up or do some sort of work to the extractor. it's pissing me off so i am "upgrading".

i am thinking of selling it and getting a HK USP TACTICAL.
i know it does not have the 1911 trigger but then nothing does.




Just felt like starting a shitstorm , Huh?
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