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Posted: 3/9/2006 3:35:49 PM EDT
To earn an M.D., do you have to complete and defend unique research in your field of specialization like a Ph.D.?

Also, is it considered haughty in most circles to use the honorific Dr. instead of Mr. in nonmedical settings if you have an M.D.? I know for a Ph.D. it's often considered bad form to be referred to as Dr. outside of an academic setting, and I'm not sure about J.D.s.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:41:17 PM EDT
No, Dr is fine.
I hate mister. Call me Dr or by my first name.

No research requirement for an MD
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:49:17 PM EDT
Also, a Ph. D. in medicine does not constitute the kind of degree required to practice medicine, correct?
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:53:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Also, a Ph. D. in medicine does not constitute the kind of degree required to practice medicine, correct?



Depends, they could be an MD with a PhD, or a DVM with a PhD or a dentist, psychologist, etc with a PhD.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:54:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedave1164:

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Also, a Ph. D. in medicine does not constitute the kind of degree required to practice medicine, correct?



Depends, they could be an MD with a PhD, or a DVM with a PhD or a dentist, psychologist, etc with a PhD.




So WTF is DO?
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 3:56:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By thedave1164:

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Also, a Ph. D. in medicine does not constitute the kind of degree required to practice medicine, correct?



Depends, they could be an MD with a PhD, or a DVM with a PhD or a dentist, psychologist, etc with a PhD.




So WTF is DO?



Doctor of Osteopathy (sp?) IIRC
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:41:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
To earn an M.D., do you have to complete and defend unique research in your field of specialization like a Ph.D.?

Also, is it considered haughty in most circles to use the honorific Dr. instead of Mr. in nonmedical settings if you have an M.D.? I know for a Ph.D. it's often considered bad form to be referred to as Dr. outside of an academic setting, and I'm not sure about J.D.s.



The only thing a M.D. indicates is that the person has met the requirements of the entity awarding the degree. Those requirements may be nothing more than the purchase of the diploma.

Having a M.D. does not mean that person is qualified to practice medicine anywhere. Individual state licensing boards will determine if the person is permitted to practice medicine within its jurisdictional borders. Those licensing requirements vary somewhat from state to state but generally, those requirements in the U.S. are; graduation from an accredited 4-year U.S. medical school and the completion of a multi-year recognized internship and residency training program. Arrangements can be made for an equalivency evaluation of foreign medical degrees, training and experience.

As far as use of the term "Doctor" or the use of educational degree abbreviations after ones name, you can do anything that makes you happy, but generally its considered inappropriate to use professional designations outside of a related occupational environment. We all know former military officers and others that still use their titles decades after leaving the service. I know a guy who still insists on being called Colonel even though he left the service in the 1960s.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:43:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
To earn an M.D., do you have to complete and defend unique research in your field of specialization like a Ph.D.?

Also, is it considered haughty in most circles to use the honorific Dr. instead of Mr. in nonmedical settings if you have an M.D.? I know for a Ph.D. it's often considered bad form to be referred to as Dr. outside of an academic setting, and I'm not sure about J.D.s.


Some people get both an MD and a PhD. If their last name is Smith, they are addressed as Dr. Smith PhD of Medicinology.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:56:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 7:02:30 PM EDT by Herr_C4]

Originally Posted By mm34b:
Originally Posted By MagKnightX:

As far as use of the term "Doctor" or the use of educational degree abbreviations after ones name, you can do anything that makes you happy, but generally its considered inappropriate to use professional designations outside of a related occupational environment. We all know former military officers and others that still use their titles decades after leaving the service. I know a guy who still insists on being called Colonel even though he left the service in the 1960s.



I ran into that problem at school. Since the vast majority of teachers had their PhD, but you could never be sure if someone didn't, everyone I knew used Prof. Pretty much every prof. I had also liked to be called Prof. <last name> or if it was a very informal setting, by their first name.

Growing up in a medical family and getting ready to attend medical school myself, I have never heard any physicians say they don't feel people with a PhD should be called doctor. It is a degree they share a common ancestry with or something arcane like that and holders of either degree have earned the title. My 0.012 Euro Cents


ETA: This guy seems to think differently, but he has earned the right. I agree with him somewhat, but until I get my own title I'm going to stay out of the fight.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 7:02:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By thedave1164:

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Also, a Ph. D. in medicine does not constitute the kind of degree required to practice medicine, correct?



Depends, they could be an MD with a PhD, or a DVM with a PhD or a dentist, psychologist, etc with a PhD.




So WTF is DO?



It's for people not smart enough to get into real medical school.


JOE
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 7:53:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 7:56:27 PM EDT by mm34b]
I don't have a problem with persons with doctorate degrees being called doctor, but then again, I don't equate the term doctor as limited to the field of medicine. The person could be a geologist for all I know.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 7:56:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By tripledouble:

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
To earn an M.D., do you have to complete and defend unique research in your field of specialization like a Ph.D.?

Also, is it considered haughty in most circles to use the honorific Dr. instead of Mr. in nonmedical settings if you have an M.D.? I know for a Ph.D. it's often considered bad form to be referred to as Dr. outside of an academic setting, and I'm not sure about J.D.s.


Some people get both an MD and a PhD. If their last name is Smith, they are addressed as Dr. Smith PhD of Medicinology.



Well what the hell do they do if their last name is Jones?
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:04:36 PM EDT
You receive an M.D. after your 4 years of medical school. Things after that vary based on what the M.D. wishes to do. Internship, Residency and Fellowship all occur after earning the M.D.

Your average GP will do an internship and some residency work, but usually will not become a Fellow.

Your cardiologist will do internship, residency and fellowship. You will often see FACC after their name. Same applies with surgeons, FACS.

Fellow of the American College of (Cardiology, Surgery, etc..)
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:45:46 PM EDT
Having an M.D. is a pre-req for all state liscensing boards.
After medical school, residency, and fellowship I feel I've earned the right to be called "Dr." rather than "Mr." just as after Parris Island, Annapolis, and almost 20 years of service I've earned the right to "Commander."
However, I'm not so arrogant as to take umbrage at "mister" and I insist that my staff call me Zack in non-formal settings (I.E. when my boss is not around!).
I prefer "Doc" from the troops.
IIR, if a military member retires at a rank, he can use that rank in correspondence for the rest of his life.
I've a retired neighbor back in the world I call "Top" when I see him out and about.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 9:10:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 9:11:55 PM EDT by Spade]
I've never considered it haughty for either medical docs or PhD's to use the title "Dr." rather than Mr. (or Mrs.) outside of work settings. Both groups of people put in a lot of work to get those, so why not use it?
Although I get ticked when people who have them make a big deal if you don't use it. Not like I can tell you got your PhD/MD unless you carry it around your neck, damnit. Lighten up.


The real question for me, should I as a TA be slightly annoyed when some of my students insist on calling me "Doctor" (always the same few who do it over and over again). It's like, damnit kids, just because I'm standing in front of you doesn't mean I have a PhD. I'm just the TA. Some of them seem a little irked when I correct them, but I haven't earned the title. Constantly correcting the same few kids though, one day I'm just gonna say "Yes, I am a doctor, but you must call me Professor!" and laugh manically.


Hey, here's a rather interesting article on the usage: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_%28title%29. Apparently some doctors in the UK prefer "Mister" as a historical nod.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 6:34:43 AM EDT
You earn an MD at a professional school. Same with pharmacy school and law school.

They are not considered 'academic' degrees.

A PhD is an academic degree earned from a college or university. You are pretty much required to perform new research and defend a dissertation to be granted the degree.

It can take considerable time in the hard sciences and engineering to get a research project set up, funded (National Science Foundation is one $$ source) and then write and defend.

Lawyers are not allowed to even use ‘Doctor’ (despite having a JD, Juris Doctor) outside of a law school setting.

Using titles in a non-professional setting is just poor form, bordering on obnoxious.


Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:08:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedave1164:

Originally Posted By napalm:
So WTF is DO?



Doctor of Osteopathy (sp?) IIRC




But what is the practical difference between an MD and a DO?
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:15:06 AM EDT
DO is osteopathy and the MD is allopathic. Its used to be a different philosophies on treating patients. DOs did the whole body thing and are into manipulation. MDs are more into systemic functions of the body.

On the whole DOs are fine in my experience. Most now have the ability to take allopathic residencies and are becoming more like MDs.

Their entrance requirements are less stringent then for MD schools. That is borne out in MCAT score averages and GPA averages of entering classes. Significantly less competitive to get in.

With that said I have met some damn bright DOs. Top notch guys.

Better then any MD, so you have to judge the individual by their own merits.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:17:45 AM EDT
But just an MD will not let you become a practicing doc. You need residency. In my case, 4 years of hell!

The first 2 junior years you are bascially the scut monkey and work hard for little applause and much abuse.

The final 2 are better but more responsibility and more freedom.

Once you graduate, then you can practice. But then the next step is certification.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 7:22:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By thedave1164:

Originally Posted By napalm:
So WTF is DO?



Doctor of Osteopathy (sp?) IIRC




But what is the practical difference between an MD and a DO?



Any more? Not much. They practice side by side.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 3:25:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 3:28:03 PM EDT by DocH]

Originally Posted By topknot:

Originally Posted By napalm:

Originally Posted By thedave1164:

Originally Posted By napalm:
So WTF is DO?



Doctor of Osteopathy (sp?) IIRC




But what is the practical difference between an MD and a DO?



Any more? Not much. They practice side by side.



True. I'm a DO, I did my residency in the Navy, my department chairman was a DO, the residency director was an MD and I took and passed the MD boards. My family doctor, an MD, recommended I apply to both MD and DO schools.

The hospital where I work is mixed staff. Of the 13 physicians staffing our department, 4 of us are DO's. We kid the MD's about eventually showing them the "secret DO handshake".

I've never had anyone question my credentials for being a DO, although Pennsylvania is a relatively heavy DO state.

Doc H.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 6:52:50 PM EDT
Alright, now, if Howard Dean had been elected president (god forbid), would it be "Dr. President" instead of "Mr. President?"
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