Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: IBTL because something I said or someting someone else will probably say? something some knucklehead will say. IBTL and I see it a little on campus.  the muslim student groups had little protests and stuff like that.  they usually are out of sight/out of mind, so it was unusual to see them I work for a university, and I see "Stop the occupation of Palestine" protests all the time.  At one of the protests, students were standing at the bell tower with the green Hamas headbands and were carrying pieces of plywood cut out into the shape of AK47's (and painted black, too). The funny thing is, most of them were NOT muslims at all.  Most of them are white kids (I'm only assuming they're not muslims because they're white - so sue me) who simply hate Israel and America.  Don't get me wrong, there are some legitimate gripes with Israel, but these kids don't care about them.  They're just doing it because they are stupid white kids with Che t-shirts. As far as I can tell, most of the muslims who work on campus are either professors or research scientists.  I have yet to see a single one of them wear a Hamas headband or do anything but mind their own business and do their job.  One of the guys I work with is from Iran, and even though he sides with the Palestinians more than the Israelis, he seems to be a pretty solid dude and says nothing but good things about America.  We argue all the time about Israel, but he has made it quite clear that he hates terrorists, and I believe him.  I never knew this, but Iranians think of arabs as filthy animals!  (according to him). I can't tell you what kind of rhetoric the professors are spewing out in class because I don't enter the classrooms when class is in session, but I do overhear a lot of conversations between professors in the hallway, breakroom, etc.  The ones who seem to be the most anti-American are of the "do-gooders out to save the world" and are almost always white. YMMV, but this is what I've seen with my own two eyes.

Your experiences mirror mine.
It's the white kids here who are wearing that stupid shit, not the Muslims.
The foreign students are there to get an education, the American ones treat it like a 4 year party with a 160,000 cover charge.

i'd be most concerned with the nigerian . . . he'll be behind one of the cubicles sending out forward fee 419 confidence scam letters . . lol

Quoted: being lebonese and wearing a olive drab camo shirt doesnt make you a terrorist...i do that and im not planning on blowing up shit.   please, you guys need your heads checked, your really paranoid

The cemetaries are full of people who were not paranoid enough

Quoted: Quoted: context, context, my friend. Show me ONE ayat(verse) that says to kill non-believers that is not prefixed by verses talking about how the group of unbelievers mentioned broke cease-fires or outright attacked Muslims,etc.. Ahh, I love you guys...its always "its out of context", "you have to read it in Arabic", "Its all who does the translation", "Thats all in the past", blah, blah, blah.... Things are clear to me, I don't care what the context... Qur’an 47:4 “So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.” and of course, Jihad, in the context of Islam, is supposed to be reserved for retaking lands conquered by the infidels. Infidel is also someone that is not Christian, Jew, or Zoroastrian; monotheists are safe. Muslim:C40B20N4676 “Jihad Is Compulsory.” wonderful, a "hadiith" that isn't a hadiith: 1) no chain of narration 2) narrator's name withheld 3) personal opinion. There is no,"And the Prophet(SAS),'...'". Of course, I am sure you knew that. Bukhari:V4B52N80 “Muhammad said, ‘Allah welcomes two men with a smile; one of whom kills the other and both of them enter Paradise. One fights in Allah’s Cause and gets killed. Later on Allah forgives the killer who also get martyred in Allah’s Cause.’” All this says is that dying a martyr will clear even the worst of sins, murder. Bukhari:V4B52N182-4 “Allah’s Apostle invoked evil upon the infidels, saying, ‘O Allah! The revealer of the Holy Book, defeat these people and shake them. Fill the infidels’ houses and graves with fire.’” once again, infidels refers to both the pagan Arabs, and pagans worldwide; it does not refer to the monotheists. Bukhari:V4B53N386 “Umar sent Muslims to great countries to fight pagans. He said, ‘I intend to invade Persia and Rome.’ So, he ordered us to go to [the Persian King] Khosrau. When we reached the enemy, Khosrau’s representative came out with 40,000 warriors, saying, ‘Talk to me! Who are you?’ Mughira replied, ‘We are Arabs; we led a hard, miserable, disastrous life. We used to worship trees and stones. While we were in this state, our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.’” Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.” once again, individual saying... or, print the whole hadiith. Tabari VIII:141 “The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: ‘Kill! Kill! Kill!’” *yawn* Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.” so what, the Prophet(SAS), in addition to being a religious leader, was a military leader. Joshua did no better in the conquest of Canaan... actually, he did worse. Ishaq:489 “Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing.” Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.” once again, pagans. Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.” this is getting old... pagans again. Qur’an 5:37 “The [Christian] disbelievers will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out there from; and theirs will be an enduring torture.” nice insertion of brackets there. That verse isn't referring to Christians... in fact, Christians aren't even mentioned anywhere in the Surah for quite a while. Qur’an 9:71 “O Prophet, strive hard [fighting] against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be harsh with them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge indeed.” wtf.... where are you getting this crap from... that isn't even the right verse. this is the Qur'an 9:71 "The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise. " Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.” once again, wrong verse, are you reading "The Christian translation of the Qur'an"? here is Qur'an 8:58-60: "008.058 YUSUFALI: If thou fearest treachery from any group, throw back (their covenant) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms: for Allah loveth not the treacherous. PICKTHAL: And if thou fearest treachery from any folk, then throw back to them (their treaty) fairly. Lo! Allah loveth not the treacherous. SHAKIR: And if you fear treachery on the part of a people, then throw back to them on terms of equality; surely Allah does not love the treacherous. 008.059 YUSUFALI: Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly): they will never frustrate (them). PICKTHAL: And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. SHAKIR: And let not those who disbelieve think that they shall come in first; surely they will not escape. 008.060 YUSUFALI: Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly. PICKTHAL: Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom ye know not. Allah knoweth them. Whatsoever ye spend in the way of Allah it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged. SHAKIR: And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly. " Qur’an 4:168 “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.” Oh, I can go on and on...the Religion of Peace indeed! indeed you can, but it won't make you any less wrong. This infidels eyes are open....and you cannot lull me into a false sense of security... your eyes have been blinded by bigotry and hate. May Allah have mercy on you.

Quoted: context, context, my friend. Show me ONE ayat(verse) that says to kill non-believers that is not prefixed by verses talking about how the group of unbelievers mentioned broke cease-fires or outright attacked Muslims,etc.. Yeah ok lets clear this up right here, right now. Mr. Premed gunner (if that is your real name ) Do you consider yourself a salafist? no, and if you have read my posts you would know I hate them. I am Shafii' And how do you feel about Isrealis? some are good, but that nation makes the US look secular Do they have a right to exsist? Nope, I don't support any country being founded off of terrorism and guilt of other people. This is why the Palestineans need to clean their fucking act up, they are almost worse than the Saudi'sIf you (in theory), had the power to erase Isreal from the map, would you do it? Yes, and a few other countriesAnd what about the Crusades? Justified? in a backwards way of thinking... yes.or "imperialism"? I don't think they were imperialistic. I think they were the result of very short-sighted economic policies of the Catholic church, who wasn't in it to help the Christians be "free"(They were more free under their Muslim occupiers than under the feudal system of Europe), but to maintain their lucrative pilgrimage routes.I think you should state once and for all what you belive so people wont think of you as a troll or something. And if you don't wanna answer all of them at least answer the first one.

Quoted: For those of you who work in corporate environment, do the muslims around the office start showing more "muslim patriotism" the higher political tensions get? Today, a labanese guy was wearing an olive drab, fatigue-looking blouse with a black T-shirt underneath. Back during the cartoon thing, this Nigerian, who is normally a mild mannered American seeming guy, started wearing a hat with Arabic writing that had Jarusalem in English on it. I hadn't even known he was a muslim up until then. Does this happen other places or am I just being paranoid?

<Post removed.  Every thread like this ends up with a locked account it seems.  This makes the first.  --tbk1>

Quoted: Quoted: being lebonese and wearing a olive drab camo shirt doesnt make you a terrorist...i do that and im not planning on blowing up shit.   please, you guys need your heads checked, your really paranoid The cemetaries are full of people who were not paranoid enough

shit your right, draw down on them, shoot them , kick them out, handcuff them...or actually call up the FBI on them, citizens arrest them!  yeahhhhh thats it!

sorry but no.

Quoted: Quoted: The only people in my office who publicly display their religion are a couple of fundamentalist Christians, and frankly I wish they'd keep their beliefs to themselves. yeah, the one thing that gets me is when people are very "loud" about their religion.  i don't like it at all. i don't care if they're muslim, christian, jewish, or whatever.  i just don't have a very high opinion of anyone that advertises their religion, or brags about being religious.

Haha, what are you new here at ARFcom?

j/k. Maybe you haven't read enough of the religious propoganda BS here at the GD

Quoted: ....just because you're paraniod....doesn't mean they're not after you....

+1

You're only called paranoid until you're proven right!

Quoted: Bukhari:V4B52N182-4 “Allah’s Apostle invoked evil upon the infidels, saying, ‘O Allah! The revealer of the Holy Book, defeat these people and shake them. Fill the infidels’ houses and graves with fire.’” once again, infidels refers to both the pagan Arabs, and pagans worldwide; it does not refer to the monotheists. Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.” once again, pagans. Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.” this is getting old... pagans again. Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.” once again, wrong verse, are you reading "The Christian translation of the Qur'an"? Qur’an 4:168 “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.” Oh, I can go on and on...the Religion of Peace indeed! indeed you can, but it won't make you any less wrong. This infidels eyes are open....and you cannot lull me into a false sense of security... your eyes have been blinded by bigotry and hate. May Allah have mercy on you.

Okay, I get it.   Islam is the most peaceful religion in the world because it only advocates killing infidels who are narrowly defined as a few billion people who aren't Christians, Jews or Muslims.   Christians and Jews shouldn't worry because they get to become slaves to the Muslims once the Muslims take over what is rightfully theirs.

I find it quite ironic that you accused pzjgr of being blinded by bigotry and hate.   I really can't think of anything more hateful than murdering someone simply because they aren't a Christian, Jew or Muslim.  This is sort of the definition of bigotry.  Its obvious that you do not regard infidels as being human beings and you even try to convince people here that Islam is good because it is so generous to non-Muslims as long as they are not infidels.  Sounds sort of like a KKK'er trying to convince a congregation of Lutherns to join the Klan because they are white and not Catholic.

I just don't see the love in Islam.  I really don't believe God needs humans to carry out the death penalty to cull those who do not believe in him or to prevent those who follow Islam from converting to another religion.

The communists used the death penalty to keep people from fleeing.  They surrounded their borders with barbed wire and machine guns.  Those who attempted to flee were shot.  Eventually, so many people decided to leave at the same time that even the border guards knew they couldn't shoot everybody seeking freedom.  Hmm, if an ideology needs the death penalty to retain members, maybe that ideology isn't so great after all.

The message of Jesus is simple.  God loves you.  God loves all his people.  God expects you to do the same.  God wants your help in spreading his message of love and joy.  You can't spread God's message of love to the infidels if you are busy killing them for no other reason than that they are infidels.  I think Islam is on the way to killing itself.  

I am not saying any of this to upset you.  I hope that you will start to think about all the things that Islam preaches and then learn about all that Christianity preaches.  Then you can make up your own mind.

   "www.thereligionofpeace.com"

The guy who said Muslims only know Islam, not nationalities, is correct. Visit the above and check out the links about the true history of Islam and what the Koran REALLY says about us infidels!

Quoted: Quoted: Bukhari:V4B52N182-4 “Allah’s Apostle invoked evil upon the infidels, saying, ‘O Allah! The revealer of the Holy Book, defeat these people and shake them. Fill the infidels’ houses and graves with fire.’” once again, infidels refers to both the pagan Arabs, and pagans worldwide; it does not refer to the monotheists. Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.” once again, pagans. Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.” this is getting old... pagans again. Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.” once again, wrong verse, are you reading "The Christian translation of the Qur'an"? Qur’an 4:168 “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.” Oh, I can go on and on...the Religion of Peace indeed! indeed you can, but it won't make you any less wrong. This infidels eyes are open....and you cannot lull me into a false sense of security... your eyes have been blinded by bigotry and hate. May Allah have mercy on you. Okay, I get it.   Islam is the most peaceful religion in the world because it only advocates killing infidels who are narrowly defined as a few billion people who aren't Christians, Jews or Muslims.   Christians and Jews shouldn't worry because they get to become slaves to the Muslims once the Muslims take over what is rightfully theirs. I find it quite ironic that you accused pzjgr of being blinded by bigotry and hate.   I really can't think of anything more hateful than murdering someone simply because they aren't a Christian, Jew or Muslim.  This is sort of the definition of bigotry.  Its obvious that you do not regard infidels as being human beings and you even try to convince people here that Islam is good because it is so generous to non-Muslims as long as they are not infidels.  Sounds sort of like a KKK'er trying to convince a congregation of Lutherns to join the Klan because they are white and not Catholic. I just don't see the love in Islam.  I really don't believe God needs humans to carry out the death penalty to cull those who do not believe in him or to prevent those who follow Islam from converting to another religion. The communists used the death penalty to keep people from fleeing.  They surrounded their borders with barbed wire and machine guns.  Those who attempted to flee were shot.  Eventually, so many people decided to leave at the same time that even the border guards knew they couldn't shoot everybody seeking freedom.  Hmm, if an ideology needs the death penalty to retain members, maybe that ideology isn't so great after all. The message of Jesus is simple.  God loves you.  God loves all his people.  God expects you to do the same.  God wants your help in spreading his message of love and joy.  You can't spread God's message of love to the infidels if you are busy killing them for no other reason than that they are infidels.  I think Islam is on the way to killing itself.   I am not saying any of this to upset you.  I hope that you will start to think about all the things that Islam preaches and then learn about all that Christianity preaches.  Then you can make up your own mind.

Dude, he won't think for himself he's drank too much of the kool-aid!!!

Quoted: Dude, he won't think for himself he's drank too much of the kool-aid!!!

That quote applies to many.

Dude, he won't think for himself he's drank too much of the kool-aid!!!

You are most likely correct.  But resistance was futile.  I just had to.

I was gonna reply to MY post, but why should I when you've shown you true colors already. Trying to confuse people with your semantics and "jurisprudence"
My reply below is in Blue.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: context, context, my friend. Show me ONE ayat(verse) that says to kill non-believers that is not prefixed by verses talking about how the group of unbelievers mentioned broke cease-fires or outright attacked Muslims,etc.. Ahh, I love you guys...its always "its out of context", "you have to read it in Arabic", "Its all who does the translation", "Thats all in the past", blah, blah, blah.... Things are clear to me, I don't care what the context... Qur’an 47:4 “So, when you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle (fighting Jihad in Allah’s Cause), smite their necks until you overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them) captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam.” and of course, Jihad, in the context of Islam, is supposed to be reserved for retaking lands conquered by the infidels. Infidel is also someone that is not Christian, Jew, or Zoroastrian; monotheists are safe. right from the bat you fucked up BOYO! First off you claim that 'jihad' is for retaking land conquered by infidels. If that is true then explain why Islam spread out and attacked all of Asia and the middle east in it's first 100 years? maybe you can fool yourself , but you cant fool us. why did Abu Bakr essentially invade all the neighiboring countries who did him no harm? SEcondly I'd like to point out this CRAP about saying that all the nasty things in the Koran only refer to "pagans" and not "montheists". Where does it say that when Muhammud was refering to 'infidels' he meant pagans only? it doesnt, and in fact Muhammud considered Christians to be "polytheistic" because they joined gods with GOD! which to him was the worst sin of all! in fact all those who did not belive in Allah and his prophet and the day of judgement were 'non-belivers' so how can you now say that every time the koran mentions 'infidels' it was only talking about pagans? Lastly i already had an arguement about this with someone who seemed to think i was put at ease because i was not a pagan. HORSESHIT. do the math, christians and Muslims (and monotheists) only make up 2/5ths of the 6 billion people on the earth. The rest are what you would describe as Pagans. Idols in their temples and all! these are the hindus, the Bhuddhists, Taoists, Confusionists, and  anamists of Africa and south america. So i guess you still have a duty to kill 4 billion people cause your god told you so! to me that is sick, wicked AND evil. Muslim:C40B20N4676 “Jihad Is Compulsory.” wonderful, a "hadiith" that isn't a hadiith: 1) no chain of narration 2) narrator's name withheld 3) personal opinion. There is no,"And the Prophet(SAS),'...'". Of course, I am sure you knew that. Bukhari:V4B52N80 “Muhammad said, ‘Allah welcomes two men with a smile; one of whom kills the other and both of them enter Paradise. One fights in Allah’s Cause and gets killed. Later on Allah forgives the killer who also get martyred in Allah’s Cause.’” All this says is that dying a martyr will clear even the worst of sins, murder. Bukhari:V4B52N182-4 “Allah’s Apostle invoked evil upon the infidels, saying, ‘O Allah! The revealer of the Holy Book, defeat these people and shake them. Fill the infidels’ houses and graves with fire.’” once again, infidels refers to both the pagan Arabs, and pagans worldwide; it does not refer to the monotheists.yeah and once again, to any moral person this is still wickedness. A human being is still a human being. Wow it must feel good to know that you have permission from your god to kill all "pagans worldwide" Bukhari:V4B53N386 “Umar sent Muslims to great countries to fight pagans. He said, ‘I intend to invade Persia and Rome.’ So, he ordered us to go to [the Persian King] Khosrau. When we reached the enemy, Khosrau’s representative came out with 40,000 warriors, saying, ‘Talk to me! Who are you?’ Mughira replied, ‘We are Arabs; we led a hard, miserable, disastrous life. We used to worship trees and stones. While we were in this state, our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says: ‘Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall become your master.’” the following passage sums it all up for me right here - ‘Talk to me! Who are you?’ Mughira replied, ‘We are Arabs; we led a hard, miserable, disastrous life. We used to worship trees and stones. While we were in this state, our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us to fight you till you worship Allah Alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute tax in submissionHere we find the modus oporandi of Muslims in general. They come upon a people they dont even know and say to them "submit, convert or die" they have been doing this for 1400 years now yet they still insist they are 'peaceful' they leave a land in ruins and call it peace. Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.” once again, individual saying... or, print the whole hadiith. the plain fact is it is a part of the tabari tradition so therefore it guides peoples thinking so what if it not attached to any transmitter?? Tabari VIII:141 “The battle cry of the Companions of the Messenger of Allah that night was: ‘Kill! Kill! Kill!’” *yawn*i can only shake my head at your reaction, you got some real fine role models there. Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.” so what, the Prophet(SAS), in addition to being a religious leader, was a military leader. Joshua did no better in the conquest of Canaan... actually, he did worse. ah the old moral equivalency game, i knew it would come up sooner or later. Thats like saying "so what if I rape women? a lot of people do it!" Well guess what Im neither Joshua or Mohammud and i condemn the actions of both. There, feel any better about following someone like that? There are plenty of great religious leaders who never harmed a soul, in my book that automatically makes then more rightous then mohammud. Ishaq:489 “Do the bastards think that we are not their equal in fighting? We are men who think that there is no shame in killing.” Qur’an 2:191 “And kill them wherever you find and catch them. Drive them out from where they have turned you out; for Al-Fitnah (polytheism, disbelief, oppression) is worse than slaughter.” once again, pagans.So i guess then every time a muslim kills a hindu your allah smiles, is that it? Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.” this is getting old... pagans again. So you really seem to be hooked on the Pagans thing. So i guess you feel that the Sudanese wiping out the pagans of darfur is totally justified? you must, you faith commands it. I hope you never take a trip to Japan becuase then you might be tempted to walk into the nearest Bhuddhist home, kill the man rape the women and enslave the children! MAybe in court you could plead 'moral insanity'???? or better yet accuse the Judge of being an Islamophobe! Qur’an 5:37 “The [Christian] disbelievers will long to get out of the Fire, but never will they get out there from; and theirs will be an enduring torture.” nice insertion of brackets there. That verse isn't referring to Christians... in fact, Christians aren't even mentioned anywhere in the Surah for quite a while. like i said before chritians=disbelivers therfore even if the text is reffering to others the fate is still the same for all 'disbelivers' Qur’an 9:71 “O Prophet, strive hard [fighting] against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be harsh with them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge indeed.” wtf.... where are you getting this crap from... that isn't even the right verse. this is the Qur'an 9:71 "The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise. " Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.” once again, wrong verse, are you reading "The Christian translation of the Qur'an"? here is Qur'an 8:58-60: "008.058 YUSUFALI: If thou fearest treachery from any group, throw back (their covenant) to them, (so as to be) on equal terms: for Allah loveth not the treacherous. PICKTHAL: And if thou fearest treachery from any folk, then throw back to them (their treaty) fairly. Lo! Allah loveth not the treacherous. SHAKIR: And if you fear treachery on the part of a people, then throw back to them on terms of equality; surely Allah does not love the treacherous. 008.059 YUSUFALI: Let not the unbelievers think that they can get the better (of the godly): they will never frustrate (them). PICKTHAL: And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. SHAKIR: And let not those who disbelieve think that they shall come in first; surely they will not escape. 008.060 YUSUFALI: Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly. PICKTHAL: Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom ye know not. Allah knoweth them. Whatsoever ye spend in the way of Allah it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged. SHAKIR: And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly. " Qur’an 4:168 “Those who reject [Islamic] Faith, Allah will not forgive them nor guide them to any path except the way to Hell, to dwell therein forever. And this to Allah is easy.” Oh, I can go on and on...the Religion of Peace indeed! indeed you can, but it won't make you any less wrong. This infidels eyes are open....and you cannot lull me into a false sense of security... your eyes have been blinded by bigotry and hate. May Allah have mercy on you. nope, his eyes have been opened by truth and fact and four jet liners. and he's not afraid of your  gods mercy OR wraith. No need to fear what does'nt exsist.

ETA: DAMN! i took so long writing this other people said the same things before me! aw shucks! i gotta stop being so long winded! Well anyway I'm glad to see most people here think along the same lines about this apologist bullshit.

As someone posted, muslims in the US are peacfull.  Who was it that once said " When in Rome, act as the Romans do "  Anyone get my drift ??????

Reading this thread, I would say it's time to resurect my "True Nature of Islam" series.    

Quoted: Reading this thread, I would say it's time to resurect my "True Nature of Islam" series.

Please do, I enjoyed them.

Quoted: Reading this thread, I would say it's time to resurect my "True Nature of Islam" series.

Cocked Locked and ready to Rock. Lets hear it !!!!!!

I guess I've been lucky not to run into any issues yet...and I do service calls to Dearborn and Dearborn Heights (#1 largest concentration of Arabic people in the U.S.), we have one kid (19-21 yo.) that works for the same comapny I do. He's a driver on the afternoon shift, he overlaps my night shift sometimes and I've met him twice and spoken to him a few times...nice kid so far to me. I don't know if he's Muslim, he is definately of some Arabic heritage and has an accent. The only problem I've heard at work with him was he got into it with one of the (female) dispatchers when he was complaining about the War in Irag...and her boyfriend is over there...she was wearing an "I love my soldier" sweatshirt at the time.

Luckily, I pretty much don't deal with other employees at the job...but I do deal with the public.  We did have on driver who refused calls to Detroit and Dearborn...but he was a redneck racist asshole anyway.
I've done DOZENS of calls in both, and never had a problem....many times I get treated better by some of the people in Detroit and other "poorer" cities than I do in the ritzy suburbs.

No Expert

Quoted: Quoted: Reading this thread, I would say it's time to resurect my "True Nature of Islam" series.     Cocked Locked and ready to Rock. Lets hear it !!!!!!

Sorry guys, but it ain't gonna happen.

The powers-that-be took a dim view my little excerise in truth, & let it be known that it would not be permitted anymore.

Thus, I'm now a changed man who sees Islam for what it truly is: a religion of peace & tolerance.  

Quoted: As someone posted, muslims in the US are peacfull.  Who was it that once said " When in Rome, act as the Romans do "  Anyone get my drift ??????

Rome had gladiatorial games.  Prisoners were often fed to Lions.

I remember reading that during the American Revolutionary War, 1/3 of the people were Tories, 1/3 were  Revolutionaries, and 1/3 were Non Committeds.  If this was true, then a successfull revolution in the 18th century only needed the support of 1/3 of the population.

What will happen when 1/3 of the Romans are Muslim?

How many WWII Germans were Nazi's?  How many Russians were Communists?

Go to Islamicthinkers.com  

They used to have a flashing banner that said,  "If you vote for a Kafir, you are a Kafir!"

A Kafir is one of Islam's many words for non-Muslims.

I really don't think this group from New York City is interested in staying Roman forever.

Indeed, they had a video on their web site showing them stomping on the American flag and later shredding it in the middle of New York City.  They basically stated that they were going to take over the United States and the World and that they were going to use our constitutional freedoms to do it.  
While standing on an American Flag and dragging it on the street, the man with the loudspeaker encouraged other Muslims to join him.  He was stating that destroying the American flag was protected free "speach" and that they could not be arrested if they joined him.

Oh, and by the way.  They also don't like Shia Muslims.

Quoted: Thus, I'm now a changed man who sees Islam for what it truly is: a religion of peace & tolerance.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Reading this thread, I would say it's time to resurect my "True Nature of Islam" series.     Cocked Locked and ready to Rock. Lets hear it !!!!!! Sorry guys, but it ain't gonna happen. The powers-that-be took a dim view my little excerise in truth, & let it be known that it would not be permitted anymore. Thus, I'm now a changed man who sees Islam for what it truly is: a religion of peace & tolerance.

Yeah i remember your last installment, and how you almost got struck by lightening! Sucks being an Arfcom Dhimmi don't it? But dont fret there are still a few (just a few) free speech zones left in the united states of kindergarden.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Reading this thread, I would say it's time to resurect my "True Nature of Islam" series.     Cocked Locked and ready to Rock. Lets hear it !!!!!! Sorry guys, but it ain't gonna happen. The powers-that-be took a dim view my little excerise in truth, & let it be known that it would not be permitted anymore. Thus, I'm now a changed man who sees Islam for what it truly is: a religion of peace & tolerance.

I don't believe the problems were with your threads.
That is a misrepresentation of what happened.
The problem was with too many people saying "kill 'em all"
The keyboard krusader syndrome got to be a bit much around here.

Don't you find it pathetic - a bunch of middle aged men, particulary those who never served, talking tough on the net?

The only Muslim I know and call a friend is the fella that runs the quick-mart near my house.

He is Indian, so I suppose is part of the 13%

He also has no accent and is fluent in Spanish, which really threw me case I could not tell if he was Mexiacn or Indian.

His take on the cartoons....they are all idiots.  He just could nto understand why the protestors would destroy relations with companies that had provided jobs to them simply because they were Danish.

I chat with him each time I am in there and talked about my recent hog slaying.  He shuddred and said, "pork....still not for me."  I told him the only reason I could eat it was because I was and Infidel.  The dude damn near smacked his head on the counter he was laughing so hard.

He also hates the Saudi's.  Says they are holding back on the oil just to be rich, then offers some butter for me as I fill up my truck.  (to lube me up for ass raping I am taking, which is about $95 per tank.)

This fella is an okay Muslim in my book.  I wish more were like him to better represent.

Quoted: I was gonna reply to MY post, but why should I when you've shown you true colors already. Trying to confuse people with your semantics and "jurisprudence" My reply below is in Blue. -snip- Oh, I can go on and on...the Religion of Peace indeed! indeed you can, but it won't make you any less wrong. This infidels eyes are open....and you cannot lull me into a false sense of security... your eyes have been blinded by bigotry and hate. May Allah have mercy on you. nope, his eyes have been opened by truth and fact and four jet liners. and he's not afraid of your  gods mercy OR wraith. No need to fear what does'nt exsist. ETA: DAMN! i took so long writing this other people said the same things before me! aw shucks! i gotta stop being so long winded! Well anyway I'm glad to see most people here think along the same lines about this apologist bullshit.

Good points all! I don't believe your (Premed Gunners) interpretation of "infidel" the way I understand it when not coming from an apologist or a deceiver, infidel is anyone who is NOT muslim...that means me!

And T-Stox is correct, I don't believe in your allah, nor muhamed, the pedophile moon barker.

So what were the 3000 people killed on 9/11 classified? Pagans? Infidels? I think there are 3000 people who would disagree with your interpretation. Go chat with some of their families. Chat with my mom, or her cousin, Anita, who lost her son Jimmy who worked for Cantor. He went to work that day, leaving his wife and two kids like every other day. A good Catholic boy who never hurt anyone in his life. He was KILLED when a plane taken over and driven by MUSLIMS crashed into the building he worked in. His body, which was never found was probably torn by flying wreckage and incinerated with jet fuel...all thanks to the Religion of Peace. Now his wife is a widow, and his kids have no father. Thanks islam!

The way I see it, IMHO....in this country, of the entire muslim population, I would guess 15-20% are hard core, fundamentalist muslims who would commit terrorism and start the jihad in this country when they think the time is right.

Probably another 20% are truly Americans first, secular muslims who want nothing but to live and let live, and are truly good people.

The other 60% or so are muslims first, always. While they may not strap a bomb vest on and kill schoolkids, the would aid and abet terrorists to further the muslim cause. They would not speak out, they would give money and comfort to the fundamentalists.

Fact is, all I have to do is look at history to understand how and why muslims operate. They have never lived at peace for very long wherever they go. Its been constant war and struggle since the beginning. And its because it is what the koran tells them to do. It is explicit, it is plain, and from what I understand, we don't even really get the juicy parts, because apparently those who do the translations don't want the real dirt to get out. So they turn it into a kinder, gentler koran, which is still clear....

Plus, how much stock can I put in the words of a guy who thinks enlisted men are dumb, uneducated scum who need officers who don't curse to properly lead them....

Oh, and as far as muslims at the office...we don't have any...but I see plenty of ninja women at one of the supermarkets...coming up from Lackawanna, home of the Lackawanna 6 don't you know...

Quoted: We've got a guy here who's really decent. Never makes it an issue and is pretty likeable. The other Indians in the office say that he's "still a Muslim" and is just "waiting on orders".

kinda makes you wonder doesnt it?

Quoted: For those of you who work in corporate environment, do the muslims around the office start showing more "muslim patriotism" the higher political tensions get? Today, a labanese guy was wearing an olive drab, fatigue-looking blouse with a black T-shirt underneath. Back during the cartoon thing, this Nigerian, who is normally a mild mannered American seeming guy, started wearing a hat with Arabic writing that had Jarusalem in English on it. I hadn't even known he was a muslim up until then. Does this happen other places or am I just being paranoid?

I would protect yourself.......they are prone to spontaneous combustion......keep one of these in your cubicle and every time you walk by his cubicle make sure you take it with you......



Also, start wearing this to work and see how he reacts.....

Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet.  Deus Veult!

One of the physicians who treated me a little over a year(?) ago -- a month or so before the battle for Fallujah -- was Muslim, and we started talking about Iraq;  he was really pissed off that Bush had held back on Fallujah and had allowed "religious sensitivity" to interfere with military operations against the insurgents.  So was I, for that matter.

I would say that our views were borne out when that corpse-filled mosque deal came out.  A lot of ordinary and decent people were murdered by the terrorists while our military held back because Bush didn't want to appear to be insensitive.

(Edit: removed quote because I misunderstood what the other poster meant.)

Premed, in all of your "interpretations" of the quran, I would like your "interpretation" of this passage.  It is not taken "out of context", but stands alone.



5:51 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

Quoted: Most Indians HATE muslims.  They have a long history with them.

Yep, you want to know who to watch out for ask the Indians.

Quoted: Quoted: Most Indians HATE muslims.  They have a long history with them. Yep, you want to know who to watch out for ask the Indians.

Funny - all the Pakis I know say to watch out for the Indians.

All I know is that the Indians where I work have an unbelievable network.  There is this one guy in my group who knows when stuff happens half a continent away minutes after it happens.  You want to know what the current rumor mill is you just ask that guy.  He knows all!

Quoted: Quoted: this is getting old... pagans again. \ Hey! I'm a pagan.

Holy cow i think i just figgured it out. This whole time i though They had a beef with hindus and Bhuddhists. But now i think that Muslims Just dont like that Motorcycle GANG! And after all those toys they gave to children at christmas! tisk tisk!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: this is getting old... pagans again. \ Hey! I'm a pagan. Holy cow i think i just figgured it out. This whole time i though They had a beef with hindus and Bhuddhists. But now i think that Muslims Just dont like that Motorcycle GANG! And after all those toys they gave to children at christmas! tisk tisk!

Glad to see some humor in this thread.

Quoted: "Practicing" muslims that actually believe in their faith, don't recognized government authority over "islam" or "Sharia" law. [...] And 9/11 and the way the average muslim gets upset over a stupid cartoon does tend to make you sit up and take a look around. If it weren't for all the crap the muslims in the world are doing, I wouldn't have a clue about islam. ...

If your concept of "practicing muslims ... don't recognize government authority" were reality, there would be no need for Osama bin Laden to exist, since there would already be one pan-Islamic caliphate.

And considering that "the average muslim" didn't give a shit about the cartoons, and that protests in such bastions of freedom as Syria and Iran were organized by the governments, I must say that you really don't know what the fuck you're babbling about.

Overall, you're just another ignorant bigot who believes everything you see on CNN when it suits your own prejudices, evne though you know they're lying about everything that doesn't suit you. . . .

Quoted: Quoted: "Practicing" muslims that actually believe in their faith, don't recognized government authority over "islam" or "Sharia" law. [...] And 9/11 and the way the average muslim gets upset over a stupid cartoon does tend to make you sit up and take a look around. If it weren't for all the crap the muslims in the world are doing, I wouldn't have a clue about islam. ... If your concept of "practicing muslims ... don't recognize government authority" were reality, there would be no need for Osama bin Laden to exist, since there would already be one pan-Islamic caliphate. And considering that "the average muslim" didn't give a shit about the cartoons, and that protests in such bastions of freedom as Syria and Iran were organized by the governments, I must say that you really don't know what the fuck you're babbling about. Overall, you're just another ignorant bigot who believes everything you see on CNN when it suits your own prejudices, evne though you know they're lying about everything that doesn't suit you. . . .

This bears repeating.
Does anyone here actually believe that any group of people thinks and acts with one mind?
Look at gun owners for example.

Quoted: For those of you who work in corporate environment, do the muslims around the office start showing more "muslim patriotism" the higher political tensions get? Today, a labanese guy was wearing an olive drab, fatigue-looking blouse with a black T-shirt underneath. Back during the cartoon thing, this Nigerian, who is normally a mild mannered American seeming guy, started wearing a hat with Arabic writing that had Jarusalem in English on it. I hadn't even known he was a muslim up until then. Does this happen other places or am I just being paranoid?

I've seen it before and I think it's bullshit.  We need to adopt a national/international policy of drawing down and delivering Full Power Shots™, in addition to calling me in for the roundhouse kicks.