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Posted: 3/9/2006 4:44:48 AM EDT

People who live in states where there's lots of gun control have this eerily unrealistic expectation of their personal safety. Case in point:


Specialists fear that some young women have a false sense of security in cities. Dancing at Hennessy’s in Boston early yesterday were (from left) Kristen Lyttle, Adam Manoli, and Liz Weidman, with Michael Holtzin and Leah Martin behind them. (David L. Ryan/ Globe Staff)

Fearless in the city
Some women still party as if invulnerable


By Donovan Slack, Globe Staff | March 9, 2006
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/03/09/fearless_in_the_city/?page=full

NEW YORK -- It's midnight at Pravda, a trendy Manhattan bar where graduate students from nearby New York University are jammed into leather booths. A group chants, ''Another vodka! Another vodka!" A young woman named Jovana is in the corner, kissing a young man she met hours earlier.

Days after the brutal rape and murder of a 24-year-old graduate student from Boston who had been drinking at a bar two blocks away, the scene is notable for an absence of fear.

''It happens here," Barbara Klen, a 24-year-old NYU student, said of the slaying. ''It happens everywhere. What can I do about it?"

Such carefree attitudes are more than the usual bravado of young adults, some sociologists say, and instead reflect false feelings of safety that are unique to the generation of women that grew up watching ''Sex and the City," chatting with strangers on the Internet, and relying on cellular telephones as lifelines.

''I think it gives them a false sense of security, because they feel that they have total control and they don't have to be concerned about their safety," said Jack Levin, professor of criminology and sociology and director of the Brudnick Center on Violence and Conflict at Northeastern University.

RELATED STORY: Bar accounts conflicting, NYC police say

For those women, popular culture has depicted strong, sexually independent women who negotiated an urban life that, while full of romantic intrigue, was presented as essentially safe, Levin and other specialists say. Many young women were children when high-profile sex crimes such as New York's so-called preppie murder and the brutal rape of a Central Park jogger occurred in the late 1980s; many weren't even born when the movie ''Looking For Mr. Goodbar," about a young woman who is murdered after drinking at a New York bar, came out in 1977.

Since then, anonymous Internet chat has helped create a greater sense of safety when interacting with strangers, even when women are away from the computer, the specialists say. And cellphones have bolstered a feeling that help is always a call away, potentially emboldening some to take risks they otherwise would not.

Other researchers have spotted another trend: binge drinking. David Rosenbloom, director of the Youth Alcohol Prevention Center at Boston University, said studies by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism indicated the number of girls between the ages of 12 and 20 who engaged in binge drinking jumped 10 percent between 1991 and 2003.

''This is going on in the United States; it's going on in England and several other European countries," he said.

In Boston, hundreds of young women have ended up at hospitals in recent years, too drunk to walk or take care of themselves, another researcher says.

''It is amazing how many young women become so severely intoxicated in bars throughout Boston on Thursday, Friday, and Saturday nights that the emergency department is the only place where it is safe for them to be watched and monitored until they are sober enough to walk straight," said Dr. Denise Rollinson, an assistant professor of medicine at Tufts-New England Medical Center, which is in the heart of the city's club scene.

Visits to nightclubs in New York and Boston this week found many young women slurring words, making out with men they hardly knew, and, in one case, sobbing alone in a back alley, shoeless, after a night of drinking. Seven of 12 women at the clubs interviewed by the Globe said they didn't think they would ever be victims of violent crime and felt no need to change their behavior to avert becoming one.

At The Rack, a popular nightspot near Faneuil Hall, 25-year-old Alina Brezitskaya sucked down the last of her ''Grateful Dead," a concoction of five different liquors, before saying she never worries about her safety.

''I just go out and get drunk," Brezitskaya said. Her friend leaned over and added, ''I'm sorry, we're kind of drunk. We're celebrating Spring Break."

In New York, only one of the women interviewed by the Globe said news of Imette St. Guillen's death had prompted her to be more aware of her vulnerability when she goes out drinking. Stefanie Bassett, a 25-year-old resident of the West Village in New York, said she was ''a little freaked out" and has begun taking steps such as checking taxicabs for valid licenses before taking rides.

Bassett already had reason to be vigilant. Three years ago, she left a friend alone in a bar, thinking she had met ''an awesome guy," but the friend was later drugged and raped. ''She remembered getting into a car," Bassett recalled. ''She remembered going to Queens, and she remembered a shed."

Seated next to Bassett Monday night at The Falls, the SoHo bar where St. Guillen was last seen alive Feb. 25, Bassett's friend Kiri Jewell sipped a glass of shiraz and pondered her own vulnerability.

''There's no point living in fear," the 25-year-old said after a few moments. ''The probability that something's going to happen is very slim."

Down the street at Pravda, 23-year-old Jovana Babovic later learned the man she had been canoodling with was married and just wanted to be a ''boyfriend for the night." Taking it all in stride, she and her friends drank until the bar closed at 2 a.m. and then set off for home together.

''I was a little bit buzzed, whatever, fine, I admit it," she said when contacted the next day. ''But it was just a fun thing."

Donovan Slack can be reached at dslack@globe.com.

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 4:48:58 AM EDT
Drunken Sluts.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 4:50:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Drunken Sluts.



I knew you'd chime in at some point.....
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 4:53:46 AM EDT


SAME'E'SAME

some folks are food for others.
not good or bad. just the way it is.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 4:55:13 AM EDT
Easy pickings
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 4:59:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 5:06:42 AM EDT by speedracer422]
Drunken college girls are a great American institution.


OTOH, the author makes a good point about the false sense of security women seem to get from today's modern culture. Have you ever watched that show Sex in the City? My friends fiance owns all the seasons and rewatches them all the time. She parades around mimicking the mannerisms and attitudes conveyed by the characters...it is deeply disturbing as well as frightening to see people adopt this sort of "culture". Its till just boggles my mind to witness in my short lifetime how easily people adopt their entire values and belief system form television.

Speed
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:04:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 5:08:18 AM EDT by jimtash9]
There was an underage girl here that wound up raped and murdered a few years back. Seems she was hanging out at a dance club and surprise, was last seen talking to a stranger. She was found decomposing in a field in the eastern part of the city and the case is still un-solved. Women are stupid if they think they can overpower most men physically in any given situation and they usually end paying a high price for it. Being drunk and un-aware of thier surroundings makes it that much more likely they'll end up in a place they don't want to be in and can't escape.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:06:56 AM EDT
America's future. Just think these bitches will be someone's mother.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:12:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 5:27:55 AM EDT by jimtash9]

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
America's future. Just think these bitches will be someone's mother.



Man I remember this bar I was in once where I walked in on this guy who was banging this chick in the men's bathroom. His friend even walked in and tried to join them but she kept saying "no". Anyway, when she came out, she walked over to her boyfriend as if nothing had happened and he came out a few minutes later. To my amazement, her boyfriend didn't realize anything had happened. I'm not saying she was or is a typical woman, but there are many out there like her.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:12:24 AM EDT
It's ironic that the gender that needs to be packing heat more than the other is the one that is most against it.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:17:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 5:18:08 AM EDT by Goonboss]
Hell, some members of this board think it's
living in fear by locking thier doors.

They think you are living in fear if you
carry a gun on you in your home.

Hell, how can you blame people for
feeling the same way?

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:17:57 AM EDT

Originally Posted By speedracer422:
Drunken college girls are a great American institution.


OTOH, the author makes a good point about the false sense of security women seem to get from today's modern culture. Have you ever watched that show Sex in the City? My friends fiance owns all the seasons and rewatches them all the time. She parades around mimicking the mannerisms and attitudes conveyed by the characters...it is deeply disturbing as well as frightening to see people adopt this sort of "culture". Its till just boggles my mind to witness in my short lifetime how easily people adopt their entire values and belief system form television.

Speed




I feel bad for you. That show is absolute poison.

Nature allows no vacuum. If the values are lacking, something is going to show up as values sooner or later.

I can’t understand that show. Why would anyone want to glorify being a shallow, greedy, self-centered gossiping whore?

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:23:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By jimtash9:

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
America's future. Just think these bitches will be someone's mother.



Man I remember this bar I was in once where I walked in on this guy who was banging this chick in the men's bathroom. His friend even walked in and tried to join them but she kept saying "no". Anyway, when she came out, she walked over to her boyfriend as if nothing had happened and he came out a few minutes later. To my amazement, her boyfriend didn't realize anything had happened. I'm not saying she was or is a typical women, but there are many out there like her.





What a fucking pathetic whore. I really despise women like that. Going out and doing it while you're single is one thing but while your fucking boyfriend is in the bar also?

Fuckin skank.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:23:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By red65:

Originally Posted By speedracer422:
Drunken college girls are a great American institution.


OTOH, the author makes a good point about the false sense of security women seem to get from today's modern culture. Have you ever watched that show Sex in the City? My friends fiance owns all the seasons and rewatches them all the time. She parades around mimicking the mannerisms and attitudes conveyed by the characters...it is deeply disturbing as well as frightening to see people adopt this sort of "culture". Its till just boggles my mind to witness in my short lifetime how easily people adopt their entire values and belief system form television.

Speed




I feel bad for you. That show is absolute poison.

Nature allows no vacuum. If the values are lacking, something is going to show up as values sooner or later.

I can’t understand that show. Why would anyone want to glorify being a shallow, greedy, self-centered gossiping whore?




LoL, I said MY FRIEND'S Fiance, needles to say, I'm not the most graciously accepted guest at their place; unlees of course I'm fixing their computer and not smoking a cigar; then I'm moderatly tolerated..LOL!

Speed
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:25:18 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
It's ironic that the gender that needs to be packing heat more than the other is the one that is most against it.



My g/f wants a handgun and would carry if she could. With of course, the proper safety/training.

But KS is gay and wont allow it.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:31:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 5:33:34 AM EDT by jimtash9]

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By jimtash9:

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
America's future. Just think these bitches will be someone's mother.



Man I remember this bar I was in once where I walked in on this guy who was banging this chick in the men's bathroom. His friend even walked in and tried to join them but she kept saying "no". Anyway, when she came out, she walked over to her boyfriend as if nothing had happened and he came out a few minutes later. To my amazement, her boyfriend didn't realize anything had happened. I'm not saying she was or is a typical women, but there are many out there like her.





What a fucking pathetic whore. I really despise women like that. Going out and doing it while you're single is one thing but while your fucking boyfriend is in the bar also?

Fuckin skank.



That's Asheville for you.

I've also been in a bar where two men were going at it in the bathroom. It was a small bathroom and the door could be locked but I guess in the heat of the moment, someone forgot to. So someone happened to open the door and let's just say that a lot of people got a show that night. I guess you could say one of them needed knee pads. BTW, one of them was a waiter at a very up-scale restaurant in downtown.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:36:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
It's ironic that the gender that needs to be packing heat more than the other is the one that is most against it.



NOT!
The women in the above article are WAY too irresponsible to be trusted to go walking around with CCW licenses and loaded guns.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:43:41 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:43:48 AM EDT
Meh, why should people cower in fear. Just don't go out and walk home alone in NYC at night.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:07:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By jimtash9:

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
America's future. Just think these bitches will be someone's mother.



Man I remember this bar I was in once where I walked in on this guy who was banging this chick in the men's bathroom. His friend even walked in and tried to join them but she kept saying "no". Anyway, when she came out, she walked over to her boyfriend as if nothing had happened and he came out a few minutes later. To my amazement, her boyfriend didn't realize anything had happened. I'm not saying she was or is a typical women, but there are many out there like her.





What a fucking pathetic whore. I really despise women like that. Going out and doing it while you're single is one thing but while your fucking boyfriend is in the bar also?

Fuckin skank.



I got news man. If she'll bang the fuck right of you on the first night, well, it isn't because you are special. Why anyone would enter a relationship with a chick like that is beyond me. If she's care-free about sex then she is, and unless you get lucky somehow that isn't going to change because she starts dating you.

I'm so glad I'm not involved in that scene anymore.

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:21:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Grunteled:

Originally Posted By tyman:

Originally Posted By jimtash9:

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
America's future. Just think these bitches will be someone's mother.



Man I remember this bar I was in once where I walked in on this guy who was banging this chick in the men's bathroom. His friend even walked in and tried to join them but she kept saying "no". Anyway, when she came out, she walked over to her boyfriend as if nothing had happened and he came out a few minutes later. To my amazement, her boyfriend didn't realize anything had happened. I'm not saying she was or is a typical women, but there are many out there like her.





What a fucking pathetic whore. I really despise women like that. Going out and doing it while you're single is one thing but while your fucking boyfriend is in the bar also?

Fuckin skank.



I got news man. If she'll bang the fuck right of you on the first night, well, it isn't because you are special. Why anyone would enter a relationship with a chick like that is beyond me. If she's care-free about sex then she is, and unless you get lucky somehow that isn't going to change because she starts dating you.

I'm so glad I'm not involved in that scene anymore.




Tru dat', Grunt-dot.

It's pathetic behavior and shameful. And I'm one of the most "stay out of my business and I'll stay out of yours" kind of people I know but g'damn.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:43:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wave:
I loved parking my patrol car in front of bars at 4AM and cock-blocking dudes that thought they were getting some easy ass.

Unfortunately there are ALOT of dumb drunk chicks at closing time that lose their "wingmen"



Guess somebody has to protect the sheep. Thanks for being that guy, Wave.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:47:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By MTUSA:
America's future. Just think these bitches will be someone's mother.


Hey, there was plenty of drunken sluts getting boinked in the 70's. Their kids would be in their 20's now.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:52:53 AM EDT
Doesn't surprise me in the least.

Morals.. values...non-existent.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 7:31:47 AM EDT
You mean I didnt have to bring the chloroform? Damn...



(j/k )
Kharn
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 7:39:15 AM EDT
Isn't this a rehash of "Looking for Mister Goodbar"
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 7:52:24 AM EDT
This site has some good reading for those who want to educate their children about this problem de Becker book listed is a good one. I read it and discussed it with my two daughters.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:00:14 AM EDT
As a college student, I can say this happens a lot.
It is scary how trusting girls are, and how drunk they let themselves get.
Lucky for them, it's me who is with them, not other guys.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:01:53 AM EDT
When you are in your twenties you are invincible. When you mix alcohol into the equation it only gets worse. It's as simple as that.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:38:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:
Drunken Sluts.



No.......

Drunken "Darwin Candidate" Sluts
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 10:48:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Coolio:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:
It's ironic that the gender that needs to be packing heat more than the other is the one that is most against it.



NOT!
The women in the above article are WAY too irresponsible to be trusted to go walking around with CCW licenses and loaded guns.



Well, how are you going to like it when the antis decide that we are too irresponsible to go walking around with CCW licenses and loaded guns?
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 11:04:17 AM EDT
.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 11:15:03 AM EDT
As a late 20's single male that is very social let me say that some of the behavior I see at the bars and clubs really makes me cringe sometimes. I could tell you stories that would make your head spin. This is stemming from mid to late 20's females. They have no concept of safety these days. Hell, some of the girls I hang out with think I am crazy for owning guns. The police will save you if you ever need help. I could go on for hours.

I sometimes think I will ever get married.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 11:16:13 AM EDT
I was talking to one of the girls at school that was from chicago.

She kept telling me how great it was. I told her it might be a fun city but I couldnt live there due to the gun laws.

She said, "Yeah but thats what makes our city so safe"

Keep drinking that coolaid from mayor dailey...
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 11:26:45 AM EDT
I had a little talk with the wife about how you must bear some responsibility, even as a victim. Then, predictably the comments were "why can't women wear bikinis etc." as if I were defending rapists.

The fact remains that the law cannot make you whole. You cannot get enough satisfaction from it to salve the pain of rape nor can you rise from the dead.

Those who think it's OK to get falling down drunk on campus or a neighboring watering hole wouldn't really walk sober into parts of Compton or Gary Indiana. They've chosen to dis-connect from reality in the former and connect in the latter. Crazy stuff.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 11:41:26 AM EDT
Had a friend who was just like those girls. She was a great girl and i loved her to death but she would get completely messed up and put herself in bad situations. She had been raped twice but I couldn't get it through her head that what she was doing was asking for trouble. Known too many girls that don't see any problem with it. If you are going to play with fire, don't be shocked when you get burned.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 12:05:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EvilDead:
She had been raped twice but I couldn't get it through her head that what she was doing was asking for trouble.



I would have to say if she didn't learn anything the first two times at this point she actually wants to be raped again.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 12:06:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 12:07:23 PM EDT by jthuang]


http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/03/09/fearless_in_the_city/?page=full

''It happens here," Barbara Klen, a 24-year-old NYU student, said of the slaying. ''It happens everywhere. What can I do about it?"




There's your answer - I guess there's nothing you can do about it.

Read: I don't want to do anything about it, so I pretend like there's nothing I can do.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 12:15:25 PM EDT
College girls can be major idiots when drunk.
During my senior year, I had a drunk chick open my door (around 3am) and crawl into bed with me.
I didn't know her and she was wearing her nighty.
I ushered her out ASAP and my real worry was who would rape her and would she only remember my room.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 12:32:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nightstalker:
I had a little talk with the wife about how you must bear some responsibility, even as a victim. Then, predictably the comments were "why can't women wear bikinis etc." as if I were defending rapists.

The fact remains that the law cannot make you whole. You cannot get enough satisfaction from it to salve the pain of rape nor can you rise from the dead.

Those who think it's OK to get falling down drunk on campus or a neighboring watering hole wouldn't really walk sober into parts of Compton or Gary Indiana. They've chosen to dis-connect from reality in the former and connect in the latter. Crazy stuff.



Big +1

Typical, this a-women-should-be-able-to-walk-naked-in-the-street-&-not-get-raped argument. Never fails to amaze me, such cavalier notions. Foolish risk-taking reaps a tragic (Darwin) reward.

Wake up, little grrrlz.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:26:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jthuang:


http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/03/09/fearless_in_the_city/?page=full

''It happens here," Barbara Klen, a 24-year-old NYU student, said of the slaying. ''It happens everywhere. What can I do about it?"




There's your answer - I guess there's nothing you can do about it.

Read: I don't want to do anything about it, so I pretend like there's nothing I can do.



+1 and there it is folks! " I'm too rich and lazy to do anything about it because the .gov and police will help us!" God help us all the day these retarded offspring of libral socalists become senators/mayors etc. No sense of personal responsibility whatsoever!

Jason
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:29:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JasoninAZ:

Originally Posted By jthuang:


http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/03/09/fearless_in_the_city/?page=full

''It happens here," Barbara Klen, a 24-year-old NYU student, said of the slaying. ''It happens everywhere. What can I do about it?"




There's your answer - I guess there's nothing you can do about it.

Read: I don't want to do anything about it, so I pretend like there's nothing I can do.



+1 and there it is folks! " I'm too rich and lazy to do anything about it because the .gov and police will help us!" God help us all the day these retarded offspring of libral socalists become senators/mayors etc. No sense of personal responsibility whatsoever!

Jason



When!?! We're already on our second generation of such folks. Boomers were even worse in many respects.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 1:37:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By livefreeordieNH:

Originally Posted By Wave:
I loved parking my patrol car in front of bars at 4AM and cock-blocking dudes that thought they were getting some easy ass.

Unfortunately there are ALOT of dumb drunk chicks at closing time that lose their "wingmen"



Guess somebody has to protect the sheep. Thanks for being that guy, Wave.




Vote for Wave!


"Wave offers you his protection."

Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:23:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SJSAMPLE:
College girls can be major idiots when drunk.
During my senior year, I had a drunk chick open my door (around 3am) and crawl into bed with me.
I didn't know her and she was wearing her nighty.
I ushered her out ASAP and my real worry was who would rape her and would she only remember my room.



Apparently 4 years of college didn't dumb you down. Wise move. Only thing different I would have done would have been to try to get some sort of signed release from her. Worst case, a thumb print on the dotted line.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:28:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By speedracer422:
OTOH, the author makes a good point about the false sense of security women seem to get from today's modern culture. Have you ever watched that show Sex in the City? My friends fiance owns all the seasons and rewatches them all the time. She parades around mimicking the mannerisms and attitudes conveyed by the characters...it is deeply disturbing as well as frightening to see people adopt this sort of "culture". Its till just boggles my mind to witness in my short lifetime how easily people adopt their entire values and belief system form television.

Speed


I think you have that reversed; the show tried to reflect modern culture, not a case of culture trying to imitate a TV show.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 5:49:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:
When!?! We're already on our second generation of such folks. Boomers were even worse in many respects.



Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:09:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By happycynic:
When!?! We're already on our second generation of such folks. Boomers were even worse in many respects.






I think he is talking about Baby boomers, not Boomer crews.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:31:31 PM EDT
wonder what sort of reaction I'd get if I sent this along to the sheeple in the taiwanese-american student group I'm part of....
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 8:40:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2006 8:40:29 PM EDT by Silesius]
Then again, many of these same drunken girls think they can "control" men.

I've heard a many of these types say they can get a guy to do whatever, never realizing he might be expecting more than she is willing to give.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 3:33:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 3:36:31 AM EDT by Makarov]
Our "culture" now teaches girls as they grow into young women that it is ONLY conservative, gun-owning, white males they they need to be afraid of. This is the message I see beamed at my daughter everyday.
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 4:15:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By LARRYG:

Originally Posted By happycynic:
When!?! We're already on our second generation of such folks. Boomers were even worse in many respects.






I think he is talking about Baby boomers, not Boomer crews.



I know.
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