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Posted: 3/6/2006 1:18:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Dayum... I know that place! 216.223.162.33/onesite/Publishsite/index.cfm?client_id=sportspagebar |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 1:24:03 PM EDT
[#2]
Col Charlie Askins
" In trying to think of a person who has been in more gunfights than anyone else that I am aware of, I thought of Col Charlie Askins who after numerous gunfights on the Mexico border said this in his book "Pistols and Revolvers": "The 9mm is my favorite loading for defensive use. There are 10 million infantrymen who fire the round either in pistol or submachinegun. It has been the death of more of the enemy than all of the other handgun loadings put together." Col. Askins goes on to say, "There is a tendency to disparage the the 9mm as a full bore, man size defensive caliber. This campaign to discredit this fine cartridge is hardly borne out by history. Designed in 1902, the 9mm has seen more action, been in at the kill on more occasions, and is today carried by more armies that all of the other military calibers put together." It is interesting to note that Askins describes many of his fights as involving the .45 acp but a good many of his victories were achieved using the .38 Special. Go figure. I also like what Ken Hackathorn in his "Tactical Advantage" article said a couple of years ago, "As a matter of fact, there is quite a bit of evidence around showing a superior 9mm round will often perform as well as, or better than, many popular .45 acp cartridges. Imagine that." " |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 1:27:09 PM EDT
[#3]
because EVERYONE who has ever been hit, or even LOOKED at a .45 has died!
every gun on earth can create survivable wounds shot placement is key with ANY WEAPON |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 1:41:43 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 3/6/2006 2:16:28 PM EDT
[#5]
I'm not a huge fan of the 9mm but it sure isn't a weak cartridge.
Unless i am mistaken, a 9mm is somewhere between a 38 spl +p and a 357 mag in muzzle energy. Don't believe everything you hear or read. |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 2:16:48 PM EDT
[#6]
It's been said that a 9mm is just a 45 set on stun...
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Posted: 3/6/2006 2:17:31 PM EDT
[#7]
Try telling 9mm is ineffective to all the allied troops killed by it doing World War Two. Wait, you can't, because you know why? That "wussy" round killed 'em.
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Posted: 3/6/2006 2:50:28 PM EDT
[#8]
Must've been a blank.
9mm a "pussy" round? Yeah, sometimes when I shoot field mice with it, they don't die right away. John |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 2:56:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Ill bet he held it against his side.
Of course a 9mm round gets all its speed 10 yards after it leaves the barrel. This is why he is still alive. |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 2:59:30 PM EDT
[#10]
In before the physics lessons. |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 3:09:14 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 3/6/2006 3:11:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Ha!
I destroyed everyone's sarcasm detectors. DESTROYED. |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 3:13:33 PM EDT
[#13]
That's the place. I hope the guy gets the help he needs. To all you newbs FOAD! |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 3:25:39 PM EDT
[#14]
Newbs? FOAD? TRG |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 3:37:46 PM EDT
[#15]
I'd heard that 9mm rounds were being adopted for ear piercings. The story went something along the lines of the "standard piercing tool causes too much damage and pain". The new tool will utilize the 9mm round to alleviate this problem.
I think they are field testing on young new jersey males....I think I saw photos in a thread around here somewhere. The ghey'r than ghey thread... I don't know, maybe I'm nuts. |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 3:40:57 PM EDT
[#16]
what were you going for when you posted this?
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Posted: 3/6/2006 3:42:29 PM EDT
[#17]
The story, if true, proves nothing about the 9mm effectiveness. Sometimes that happens. Recently an officer at work with was hit by a ND from a .38(off duty carry weapon) . Was within a few feet it grazed the webbing of his hand, entered about 2 inches above his heart hit a rib(it did fracture it) followed it around the bullet stopped under his scapula(sp? a bone on the back side of his shoulder). They checked him out, nothing vital hit, removed the bullet stitched him up and he got sent home. Came up to the dispatch that same night and was talking to us. All either of these incidents prove is not to shoot yourself or let dumbass friends play with your guns......
He was very lucky, the guy in your incident was very lucky. Someone was on their side. Even after knowing this I still won't feel undergunned with a .38 snubby nor a 9mm. Here's a link to the story as it did actually happen..... www.southeasttexaslive.com/site/index.cfm?newsid=16225083&BRD=2287&PAG=461&dept_id=512588&rfi=8 |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 3:43:30 PM EDT
[#18]
He is calling us Newbies and wants us to Fuck Off And Die.  So what did you think we would say when you posted this? |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 3:43:33 PM EDT
[#19]
I can only hope that he didn't do this intentionally. That would be excusable. If not, he's just evil. |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 4:26:51 PM EDT
[#20]
9mm tends to be pathetically underloaded, as is .45 ACP...
Personally, I don't think either one is suitable with out the use of at least +p ammo... |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 5:24:24 PM EDT
[#21]
The owner of a local outdoors/gunstore was shot in the head with a 9mm and he lived... The round didnt go deap enough into his head to penetrate his skull.
I realize its prolly 10000 to 1 that a 9mm round wont penetrate a vital like that but it did happen. I doubt if many of the 9mm users here will believe it me though, after all its the internet. |
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Posted: 3/6/2006 5:37:31 PM EDT
[#22]
I shot a very large charging Brown Bear right in the forehead with a 9mm, it just deflected off, So I can believe it couldn't kill a man.
Fortunately I had my .45 with me.  |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 4:50:23 AM EDT
[#23]
Did ya live?   
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Posted: 3/7/2006 4:55:06 AM EDT
[#24]
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Posted: 3/7/2006 5:05:51 AM EDT
[#25]
Yep. With only 15,000 posts, you are a newb. Besides, you've actually shot animals with a 9mm and posted pics. What do you know? |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 5:16:11 AM EDT
[#26]
A close friend of mine was once shot in the collarbone area with a 9mm - it didn't appear to have any trouble exiting through his shoulderblade - I've gotta call BS on this one as well...
9mm isn't exactly my 1st choice, but I don't feel undergunned when carrying one... - georgestrings |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 5:16:22 AM EDT
[#27]
Anyone got a link to the thread of the soldier in Iraq who was shot in the face with a 9mm and the bullet was stopped by his teeth?
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Posted: 3/7/2006 5:21:40 AM EDT
[#28]
i saw similar injuries when i was in EMS. it's not specific to 9mm but did see more of those type wounds with small calibers. 9mm ball is a very inconsistant performer when t hits bones IMHO
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:18:28 AM EDT
[#29]
Exactly my point, OP. TRG |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:20:37 AM EDT
[#30]
I FULLY AGREE!!!! 
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:27:32 AM EDT
[#31]
You are going to need to know more abouthte actions of that 9mm prior to striking the guy's teeth. Why? Because I have personally been shot with a 9mm. At a shoot at my house, a friend of mine was firing on steel spinners. The 9mm, ball, struck a steel spinner and bounced back to my location. He fired from 15 yards, using a 16" 9mm AR15. I was standing near him when he fired. The round struck me in my upper right thigh. It hurt like a sumbitch, and left a bruise the size of a small apple. Luckily, it had lost enough energy on the plate, and deformed enough, that it could not do more damage. I have no doubt that the soldier's story is true. But, I think my personal experience with a 9mm against large game (hogs) and my expeience with actually being SHOT by a reflected 9mm would lend some credence to my point of view on the soldier, his teeth, and the path of that round prior to impact. Multiple witnesses to the 9mm striking me, the bruise, and the bullet path. TRG |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:31:04 AM EDT
[#32]
Well why don't one of you BS callers call the bar and ask them if they know anything about it? Wilson posted a link. |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:31:51 AM EDT
[#33]
My guess it that he shot himself at an extreme angle and it traveled sideways between two ribs just under the skin.
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:38:08 AM EDT
[#34]
I guess I wasn't talking about you TRG. |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:38:13 AM EDT
[#35]
That's why I love the MP5....when I feel the full auto kick in yo( just like my VTEC!) I know that I'm going to pound the badguy into submission from the multiple welts!
 ETA - I also got an AK with beams if the MP5 don't work. |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:39:56 AM EDT
[#36]
You are posting information about a 'friend of a friend'. Like any other word-of-mouth story, it has serious holes in it. Your own recounting of it indicates 4 possible bullet locations, from stuck in his ribs, to penetrating his chest. Can you NOT see that your inconsistencies alone are enough to call BS? As for calling the bar? Why would we do that? It is your cock-and-bull story, post some hard evidence. TRG |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:42:06 AM EDT
[#37]
It's all about shot placement. Whether it's a .45 or a 9mm.
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:44:20 AM EDT
[#38]
I 'welted' a 250+ lb boar to death, about a week ago, with my 9mm M16. www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=14&t=271169 TRG |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:46:03 AM EDT
[#39]
No story, what is so hard to believe, people get shot and live every day. I think the only ones calling BS are the 9mm lovers. |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:54:55 AM EDT
[#40]
9mm lovers? You mean 9mm USERS, right? I USE a 9mm, I kill with a 9mm, I autopsy my kills from the 9mm. In ALL of my experience with the round, including mulitple wounds that broke bones, ribs, shoulders, necks I have never found a 9mm 'stuck' in an animals ribs. Large Spike: Round entered right shoulder, broke shoulder, passed through ribs, entered chest, passed through chest (turning) exits left flank. Large Buck (pictured above): Round entered left shoulder, broke left shouler, entered neck, broke spine, entered right shoulder, broke right shoulder, round recovered under skin on right shoulder Large boar (pictured above): round entered center chest. Hog dropped in his tracks. No autoposy, but obvious destruction of pulminary system abd possibly CNS struck. Large boar (not pictured): unknown round count (M16) hog ran 100 yards and expired. No autopsy. Wounds indicated on surface of rounds passing through (all the way through) chest and lungs. Aspiration (foaming) blood on exit side. You can post anything you want, as can I, but mine are FIRSTHAND accounts of performance of the 9mm, not thirdhand 'friend-of-a-friend' BS. TRG |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:55:02 AM EDT
[#41]
#1 funnymans , under penetration , over penetration ......Lots of folks just dont like 9mm .
In an SOF from the late 70's there was an "instance" of a 9 bouncing off some Africans head . Agian I'm sure it was some weird angle ....but maybe not ...a fluke . Dont try that at home . the bruise on your head may be fatal !  Some people dont think M 193 will kill people either . Stoked w/ hp's 9mm can be fearsome in wetlap tests .
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:58:27 AM EDT
[#42]
yep |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 6:59:25 AM EDT
[#43]
there is a bit if velocity difference between a carbine and a handgun. |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 7:03:49 AM EDT
[#44]
Well I guess he's lucky he didn't use an M16. |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 7:06:07 AM EDT
[#45]
I have heard that rumor before, but I have not found it to be true. The 147s that I shoot are still subsonic from my 16" barrel. They are not receiving any additional velocity (no ballistic crack) from the longer barrel. From what I have read, the pistol case does not contain enough powder to overcome the additional friction of the longer barrels. I don't have a mid-length carbine barrel installed. I plan to build a 5.5" upper of the M16 asap. I have no Chrono data to back this up, but, I do not seem to be gaining velocity on the rounds. TRG |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 7:06:45 AM EDT
[#46]
ROFL, yeah, I guess he is lucky. TRG |
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Posted: 3/7/2006 4:22:07 PM EDT
[#47]
No....I died. . . . . . . . . . . . But I'm feeling much better now....... 
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