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Posted: 3/6/2006 4:52:48 AM EDT
After hearing guys here rave about this I finally picked up a copy. I'm halfway through it (I was interrupted by having to go to work).

If you haven't read it, get it!

It addresses the basic questions of "Whose country is this, anyway?" and "Are the citizens truly sovereign in these United States?"

I have doubt that the politicians who give lip service to Thomas Jefferson would tolerate his writings today.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:01:11 AM EDT
The author sez that the sequel will be out later this year.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:17:38 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
The author sez that the sequel will be out later this year.



Coolio.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:26:38 AM EDT
whilst a good read, it pales in comparison to unintended consequences.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 5:34:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 5:34:32 AM EDT by ThirtyCal_FAL]

Originally Posted By Fourays2:
whilst a good read, it pales in comparison to unintended consequences.



I have read Unintended Consequences several times along with Patriots. Those are must reads. I read Black Arrow by Suprynowicz and Molon Labe too. The latter left me wondering WTF? Black Arrow was a well written and entertaining book, but the futuristic setting left it a bit wanting IMHO only. I would recommend you read them all.


Link Posted: 3/7/2006 11:15:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ThirtyCal_FAL:

Originally Posted By Fourays2:
whilst a good read, it pales in comparison to unintended consequences.



I have read Unintended Consequences several times along with Patriots. Those are must reads. I read Black Arrow by Suprynowicz and Molon Labe too. The latter left me wondering WTF? Black Arrow was a well written and entertaining book, but the futuristic setting left it a bit wanting IMHO only. I would recommend you read them all.





I don't think I've ever seen Patriots for sale. Black arrow is entertaining as well, a little heavy on the drug references though.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 3:22:27 PM EDT
I have read Enemies as well as Unintended Consequences. They are both good books and should be considered "Must Reads".

I want to get Molon Labe but can't find it and B&N can't/won't order it, kinda leary about the net *tinfoil*
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:05:46 PM EDT
The only books that I've read that have really "opened my eyes", were books that were remarkably well written. Regardless of content.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:34:34 PM EDT
My partner and I were taken aside and told to "keep our mouths shut" if we valued our jobs.

We were talking about three of the above mentioned books.

Time to feed the hogs.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:37:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 4:38:16 PM EDT by Red_Beard]

Originally Posted By FedGunner:
My partner and I were taken aside and told to "keep our mouths shut" if we valued our jobs.

We were talking about three of the above mentioned books.

Time to feed the hogs.




fed gunner huh? does that men you are a fed or you gun feds?

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:47:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FedGunner:
My partner and I were taken aside and told to "keep our mouths shut" if we valued our jobs.

We were talking about three of the above mentioned books.

Time to feed the hogs.



Tow the Party Line. It's the only way to move up in the Politburo.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:59:45 PM EDT
Enemies was pretty good. Brad is dead...so it seems like a bit of a stretch to extend it to a Part II. I suspect I will buy it, read it, and like it nonetheless.

It was certainly better than U.C. I liked U.C., though the sexual aspects were completely out of place. It's not like I was offended by the content....it just wasn't relevant to the story.

Patriots was a die hard UN Paranoid-Survivalist-Fundamentalist-Christian Wet Dream. It was kinda fun to read, but the religious overtones were annoying and not necessary, but this is coming from an agnostic. If you are of the Paranoid-Survivalist-Fundamentalist-Christian type, you might get a wet dream out of it, you Dirty Little Sinner you! Repent!
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 5:14:41 PM EDT
Here is my favorite excerpt:


From the front seat Hummel turned to the others and said, “Listen, one more stop and we’ll call it a day. Let’s visit a gun store for a compliance visit; you can see the kind of crap ATF is up against every day. Take a right after the Union 76, then head south on 32.” Like most BATFE agents, Hummel had never gotten used to the new letter tacked onto the already too long name of their bureau and he still called it simply the ATF.

State Road 32 was a two lane blacktop cutting due south through pine trees and soybean fields. “That’s the place up there on the left,” said Hummel. The gun store was a white one story cinderblock building 75 feet on a side, set behind a gravel parking lot. An American flag flapped softly atop a pole out front. “Freedom Arms” was painted in blue block letters across the top of the building over the front door and a pair of windows. Behind the store across a several acre sized fenced yard was the owner’s tan-colored one story ranch-style house. Pine woods bordered the fence around the yard and behind the house.

There was a jeep, a pickup truck and a motorcycle parked in front of the store; the muffled staccato popping of a handgun could be heard from within, someone practicing on the indoor range. Virginia was a “right to carry” state and many of the citizens who carried a licensed concealed handgun practiced diligently.

A heavy wrought iron burglar gate was latched back against the building, allowing access through a plate glass door. The two small windows in the front of the structure were set high and covered with iron bars, from the outside the place looked almost like a small bank.

The four federal agents got out, adjusted their jackets over their concealed pistols, and went inside. Decals from firearms and reloading supply companies were stuck all over the glass door, cowbells jingled and a chime rang when the door was opened, inside the air conditioning was refreshingly chilly. A young man, perhaps a military reservist judging by his haircut and demeanor, stood behind a long glass cased counter talking to a wiry older customer who was wearing jeans and boots and a black Harley Davidson t-shirt. Another string of shots was fired on the indoor range: pop pop pop. The young man behind the counter was wearing a holstered cocked and locked .45 Colt 1911 pistol on a wide leather belt: if trouble came looking, gun store employees were universally ready to greet it. George Hummel could not remember a single case of a gun store ever being robbed during business hours, but he never connected this remarkable fact to any larger issues involving citizens carrying firearms more generally.

The three FBI men browsed through the crowded non-firearms merchandise display areas, examining holsters, books, boxes of various calibers of ammunition and other shooting accessories, all while discretely watching Hummel handle the “compliance visit”. As would be expected, all of them were proficient with firearms; they all carried their own .40 caliber pistols in shoulder or belt holsters under their jackets. They all considered themselves shooters and bore no particular animosity toward the owners of gun stores, since they were themselves frequent customers in them. Gun stores were the ATF’s beat as far as compliance with the many federal laws went.

On one knotty pine paneled wall there was a large black and white poster of Adolf Hitler with a bullseye ring printed over him, he had his right arm raised high in a Nazi salute. Across the poster in large Germanic letters was written, “All those in favor of gun control, raise your right hand.” In smaller print was written, “After Hitler was elected Chancellor in 1933, the Nazis used existing German gun registration lists to disarm their citizens. The rest is history.”

One FBI agent pointed the poster out to his colleagues and they all chuckled. FBI agents generally looked down on their ATF cousins, referring to them as the BATF and now the BATFE. The ATF agents had a major inferiority complex and wanted to be considered a first-tier “three letter agency” like the CIA, FBI, NSA or even the DEA, INS or IRS. The BATF had spent sixty years under the Treasury Department as glorified tax collectors or “revenuers”, before most of their bureau was transferred over to the Justice Department following the homeland security reorganizations in the wake of 9-11.

With the transfer had come the new letter, the E for Explosives, and the four letter agency had become the first five letter agency. Behind their backs, BATFE agents were still called “F-Troop” by the FBI for their tendency to screw up major cases, such as the initial attack at Waco. (Not that the FBI had covered itself in glory ending the standoff.)

George Hummel went to the counter and presented his credentials: the black leather wallet containing his gold badge and laminated BATFE identification card. The conversation between the young store employee and his customer halted in mid-sentence.

“ATF: compliance check. Where’s the owner Joe Bardiwell?”

“In the back, wait one.” The employee pushed a button concealed behind the counter, in a few moments a heavy door to the back rooms of the building opened and a middle aged man wearing a leather machinist’s apron and clear safety glasses stepped out. Before the door closed a few louder shots could be heard from the range. Bardiwell had thick dark hair and a brushy mustache, and some of his customers thought he resembled Joseph Stalin or Saddam Hussein, although they would never say so out loud. To his friends, and there were many, he was just plain Joe. Besides owning the store and its indoor range, he was a highly respected and much sought after gunsmith, well known for his custom modifications to standard grade hunting rifles. His work shop and reloading room was in the back along with his office, storage rooms, and the four lane pistol range.

“ATF? And four of you today? What’s the problem? I just had a check last week and all of my books and papers were in perfect order.”

Agent Hummel already knew this, as the Norfolk ASAC he had scheduled the compliance check by the very ATF agent Bardiwell was referring to. “I see that all of your semi-auto rifles are gone,” he said, pointing to the nearly empty long gun racks behind the counters. As in most gun stores, the pistols were in glass cases beneath the counters, the rifles and shotguns were lined up in vertical racks along the back walls. “Have you turned them in, or sold them? Where are they?”

“Oh, I guess I sold just about every one of them. It’s been a busy week.”

“Sold them? All of them? Why would anybody buy a rifle that’s about to be prohibited? Did you inform the purchasers of the new law?”

Bardiwell tried not to smile. “They all know about the law. Why they want the rifles is their business, this week selling them is still perfectly legal, there’s nothing in the law which comes into effect before next Tuesday.”

“But the weapons will be illegal in five days! You’re aiding and abetting criminal activity!”

“I don’t see how. I didn’t write the law, and there’s nothing in the law about not selling them this week, not one word. Call your congressman if you don’t like the way they wrote the law.”

“But buying an assault rifle a week before they’re illegal clearly shows intent to break the law!”

“First, they’re semi-automatic rifles, not assault rifles. Assault rifles have a fully automatic capability. You know that. And I didn’t ask them about their ‘intent’. They were all qualified buyers who passed the instant background check. I just sell legal firearms to qualified buyers for a living. And this week they’re still legal.”

“Let me see your form 4473’s, let me see all your paperwork for the last week.” Hummel was asking for all of the yellow federal firearms purchase forms filled out by each purchaser, which were retained at the gun stores. Theoretically this was to prevent the information from being centrally collected, which would constitute national firearms registration. The ATF routinely collected information from the forms in the conduct of an actual criminal investigation, which was permitted. Lately they had taken to bringing in their own scanners and laptop computers and copying forms wholesale, which should not have been permitted. The “beltway sniper” case in 2002 had finally buried the pretense that the ATF could not go on wide net fishing expeditions, they had collected and culled through every 4473 in Maryland and Virginia on that case, and a new precedent had been set.

Joe Bardiwell went to his back office and returned in a minute with a stack of yellow cards. Usually an ATF agent would try to slip into the office to data mine in privacy, but Bardiwell had built a heavy hinged section into his counter to prevent his offices or storage rooms from being rushed by armed robbers, or federal agents without a warrant. The seemingly unbroken counter top served its purpose, and Hummel remained on the public side of the store. Bardiwell laid the forms on the counter top in front of the ATF agent. “The last sales are on top, they go back in order. Rifles, pistols, everything.”

George Hummel quickly flipped through the cards. “AR-15, SKS, Bushmaster, FAL, an AR-180, two Ruger Mini-14s, a Dragonov, another FAL….Jesus, you sold all of these yesterday! Do you think these guns were bought with the intention to comply with the law?”

Joe Bardiwell shrugged. “How would I know? Why should I be left with unsold inventory I paid for?”

Hummel picked up the entire inch thick stack of forms and turned to leave. Bardiwell said, “You can’t take them out of here, you know the law, those are my records, they have to stay secured in my office. You can copy pertinent information in pursuing an investigation, but you can’t take the forms out of here as long as I’m in business.” Bardiwell was making that statement for the record in front of witnesses, and knowing that his video cameras would catch the ATF agent in clear violation of the statutes if he left with the forms. It would not be above the ATF to take the forms on one day, and then arrest a firearms dealer for not having them as required by law on the next. Bardiwell’s store had two video cameras that were meant to be seen, and two more that were hidden.

“And just exactly how long do you expect to be in business Bardiwell? Maybe not as long as you think, if you’ve been selling ‘semi-automatic’ assault rifles with the intent to evade the law!” Hummel kept the stack of yellow cards and turned for the door.

The older customer, who had been at the counter watching and listening, suddenly said, “Hey Mr. BATF man, I thought there was no federal gun registration, but there you go out the door with the 4473s.” Hummel stopped and looked back at the civilian who had unexpectedly challenged him, and the man continued. “Let me ask you something Mr. BATF… excuse me, Mr. BATF-E man: after next Tuesday are you going to be kicking down those peoples’ doors? Stomping their kittens and shooting their dogs? Throwing pregnant women around causing miscarriages? Isn’t that what you do, in your black ninja suits, hiding your faces behind masks? You don’t do a damn thing about the Muslim terrorists running around loose, but you sure love busting regular Americans’ doors down, don’t you?”

George Hummel, the Norfolk ATF Assistant Special Agent in Charge, was used to receiving cringing courtesy in gun stores and was momentarily stunned into silence by the outburst. When he regained his voice he called back, “and just who the hell are you, Gomer?”

“Who the hell am I? Just somebody that was bleeding in the jungle for this country when you were in diapers, that’s who! And let me tell you, all of us, every one of us that went over there, we all took an oath to defend this country from ALL enemies, foreign AND domestic, do you hear me boy? But it looks like you think it’s all fine and dandy if the lawyers up in Washington decide to tear up the Bill of Rights, that’s fine by you as long as they sign your paycheck, isn’t it?”

“Shut up you asshole, you have no idea what you’re talking about!”

“No? Well it seems like maybe it’s time to figure it all out, figure out who’s defending the constitution, and who’s pissing on it. So my question to you is this: just exactly who wants to disarm us all so bad, and why?” Long harbored thoughts were flying through the old veteran’s mind now, and he couldn’t stop his mouth from firing for effect now that he had the BATF agent in his sights in front of him. “Let me tell you, whoever wrote that damn law is either the biggest fool who ever lived, or he just flat out wants to start a civil war in this country.”

The three FBI agents looked at Hummel and the old crackpot with amusement.

“You don’t believe me? Then why’d every decent rifle in Tidewater, and probably everywhere, get bought up this week? Look around, there’s not a rifle or a rifle magazine left, and not hardly a box of rifle bullets. Now why do you think that is? To throw them all in dumpsters come next Tuesday? You federal boys better think about it real hard, and pick which side of the Constitution you’re going to stand on, because it looks like everybody else is picking the other side.”

“Put a cork in it grandpa, or we’ll arrest you for threatening federal officers!” said Hummel, trying to regain his composure and his control over the situation. Threatening arrest usually did the trick, nobody wanted to be handcuffed and taken away to jail.

“I’m way too old for you to scare me that way boy! Now the VC and the NVA, they scared me plenty back in the day, but not you, oh not hardly! And let me tell you something else: Charlie taught me a thing or two, things I ain’t never forgot! And not just me, no sir, not by a long shot!”

George Hummel turned and headed out the door red faced with anger, the FBI men trailing behind. The last FBI agent turned back around at the front door, nodded slightly, flashed a ‘thumbs up’ against his chest in the old man’s direction and shot him a wink. Then they were gone.


In the shop the ranting man’s anger immediately turned to regret. “I’m sorry Joe, I guess I really screwed up; I mean I really put you in the shit with those guys. Seeing that BATF guy hauling out your 4473s, knowing what it means, what’s going to happen to those folks now…damn. I just don’t know what’s happening in this country any more… A war’s coming, I don’t know how I know, but I feel it coming, I got the old feeling again, I can’t explain it…”

“Ah forget it Phil, you spoke the truth, you said what you felt had to be said, don’t be sorry for that.”

“I really thought they still weren’t allowed to take the 4473s out of the store.”

“They’re not, but they do what the hell they like. Especially after 9-11, and the beltway sniper, and now the stadium massacre…. They’re a law unto themselves; they just do what the hell they want. If they can say it involves national security or terrorism, they get a blank check and a free hand, no questions asked. It’s difficult times my friend, difficult times. Muslims are running around shooting people and blowing themselves up and the feds pick now to disarm honest Americans.”

“Well Joe, I’m sorry for any trouble I caused you, I really am.”

“Hey, don’t worry about it. What’s going to happen is going to happen. Don’t let ‘em drive you crazy; we’ll get through this if we stay cool.” The two men shook hands across the glass topped pistol display counter, and then the older man left the shop, mounted his Harley, fired it up and took off fast to the south.

Joe Bardiwell went back into his office and began making phone calls, he felt it was his duty to call his customers and tell them that the ATF had just pulled their 4473’s and taken them away, which was highly unusual, and indicated certain trouble. In order to avoid any ATF concocted conspiracy charge he carefully told each customer or answering machine the safe and truthful statement “the ATF just pulled your yellow form, make sure you comply with the new law and get rid of your semi-auto rifles by next Tuesday.”

In reality Bardiwell knew that virtually all of these rifles had already been “gotten rid of;” buried in watertight plastic containers or otherwise well hidden. He had heard talk of stockpiles and caches and six inch diameter PVC pipe all week long as rifles and ammo had flown off the shelves. Customers wanted to know what kind of grease or lubricant to use for long term storage, and if they should take apart weapons to relieve spring pressure. Bardiwell stayed away from talk of weapons caches and resistance, he heard it but didn’t join in it. However, in point of fact Joe Bardiwell himself had already cached a significant amount of arms and ammunition: storm clouds had been gathering for a long time and he intended to be ready for whatever came next.

Joe Bardiwell had lived until his late thirties in a predominantly Christian town in the hills east of Beirut Lebanon, and he knew better than most that if and when the storm broke the USA could quickly be divided into two classes of people: armed survivors, and disarmed victims. He had seen it and he had lived it from 1976 until 1981 when he immigrated to the United States with his American born wife, after his entire village had been ethnically and religiously cleansed by the far better-armed invading Muslim PLO. The Christians were all murdered or forced to flee, after two thousand years of their people living in the same town. He decided after leaving Lebanon and embracing freedom in the United States that he would never again under any circumstances be voluntarily disarmed.


ATF agent George Hummel was livid, slamming the heavy door of the Suburban shut behind him. “Do you see now, do you see now, the kind of shit we have to take from these stinking gun nuts every damn day in and day out? You guys saw it, those bastards hate the government, they hate us, they’re armed to the teeth, they’re crazy and they’re itching for a fight! They think their almighty Second Amendment is some kind of holy writ, something Charlton Heston brought down from the mountain like the Ten Commandments! You just cannot get it into these stupid crackers’ skulls that the only real ‘militia’ today is the National Stinking Guard! They think they’re all Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry, and we’re the damned lousy redcoats!”

After a moment of embarrassed silence in the truck one of the FBI men said “Well, uh, George, it looks like at least you won’t have to go all the way to Idaho to find the militias. It looks like you’ve got them all over your backyard these days”

“You’ve got that right. Not just here, not just Idaho, it’s everywhere; right wing loonie tunes have been stockpiling guns and ammo like you wouldn’t believe. If you saw the amount of 5.56 and 7.62 that’s been getting bought wholesale every month you wouldn’t believe it. These gun nuts, they don’t buy a hundred rounds at a time any more, they buy a thousand, they buy ten thousand, they buy it by the case in sealed ‘battle packs’, I kid you not! But we’ve got some tricks up our sleeves they haven’t thought of, believe you me! They talk about resisting, they talk about a fight, well…they’ll see. And they call us ‘jack booted thugs’! We’ll show them our jackboots, right in their damned teeth!” Hummel was banging his fist on the door ledge by the window as he shouted.

“Who’s this ‘we’ George?” asked an FBI agent sitting behind Hummel, the one who had given the secret ‘thumbs up’ while leaving the gun store. “Are you enlisting the FBI in your war on gun owners? My Dad’s a gun owner, and so are my brothers. And so am I. Do you know every year ten or fifteen million Americans buy deer stamps and go off into the woods with scoped rifles? Have you ever thought about that? I’m not so sure it’s a great idea to piss off millions of ‘gun nuts’ with high powered rifles…they’ve got us outnumbered about a thousand to one.”

Hummel was laboring to control his breathing so that he could speak normally. “That’s the hunters, they’re okay. I’m talking about the wackjobs with the assault rifles.”

“So just how are you going to find the wackjobs in the middle of those 15 million hunters?”

“Oh trust me. We’ve got some ideas; we’ve been working on that problem a long long time. We’ll be able to sort them all out when the time comes.”


Link Posted: 3/7/2006 5:38:31 PM EDT
In Patriots, I did not like the Nazi Bastard Todd that was "in charge." He seemed like too much of a controlling little shit for my tastes. I especially did not like it when the group splintered into two houses. The second house was owned by Kevin Lendel, but Mike Nelson was in charge and it was called "Michael Nelson's company."

I thought that Lendel really needed to grow a pair. Can you imagine letting someone else be in charge at your house, and having your house referred to as someone else's group? Remember the first rule of SHTF at your house is that YOU are in charge.

I think I like Lights Out the best, with Enemies Foreign and Domestic a close second. I tried to read Unintended Consequences several times, but there is just too much minutia to wade through and I hated the know-it-all, Henry. Henry was just not a believable character.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 6:16:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
“I’m way too old for you to scare me that way boy! Now the VC and the NVA, they scared me plenty back in the day, but not you, oh not hardly! And let me tell you something else: Charlie taught me a thing or two, things I ain’t never forgot! And not just me, no sir, not by a long shot!”






I might have to bust out my copy and read it again. The old guy in that excerpt reminds me of an uncle of mine.



Link Posted: 3/7/2006 6:20:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 6:21:27 PM EDT by The_Macallan]

Originally Posted By GySgtD:
The author sez that the sequel will be out later this year.

The sequel to EFAD is about Aztlan, the bronze horde and the coming Pali-style war for the Balkanized America.

The author, Matt Bracken, posts here on rare occasion as Travis McGee.

He's also my brother-in-law's brother-in-law.

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 6:22:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:
“I’m way too old for you to scare me that way boy! Now the VC and the NVA, they scared me plenty back in the day, but not you, oh not hardly! And let me tell you something else: Charlie taught me a thing or two, things I ain’t never forgot! And not just me, no sir, not by a long shot!”






I might have to bust out my copy and read it again. The old guy in that excerpt reminds me of an uncle of mine.







Link Posted: 3/7/2006 6:24:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FedGunner:
My partner and I were taken aside and told to "keep our mouths shut" if we valued our jobs.

We were talking about three of the above mentioned books.

Time to feed the hogs.




last week, I went to my local library to find "Unintended....", and "Enemies...".....the librarian said she couldn't find them......and couldn't get them, couldn't order them......then she made some comment like, "Must be dangerous material...."....I was like "HUH?".......now I'm going to get a call from the library police....
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 6:26:41 PM EDT
That has to be the most masturbatory bit of writing I've ever read in my life.

Yeah, I get the point, but wow, that was terrible.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 7:57:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ElCamino:
That has to be the most masturbatory bit of writing I've ever read in my life.

Yeah, I get the point, but wow, that was terrible.



Ya know, there's really no reason to act like a dick other than you like it and the people you are acting like a dick towards aren't in your immediate vicinity. As you said, you got the point and everyone has their own way of expressing themselves. Now that I'm on the subject, I've never seen you contribute anything useful or constructive yet.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:49:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 8:53:06 PM EDT by ElCamino]

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By ElCamino:
That has to be the most masturbatory bit of writing I've ever read in my life.

Yeah, I get the point, but wow, that was terrible.



Ya know, there's really no reason to act like a dick other than you like it and the people you are acting like a dick towards aren't in your immediate vicinity. As you said, you got the point and everyone has their own way of expressing themselves. Now that I'm on the subject, I've never seen you contribute anything useful or constructive yet.



It's just really bad writing, sorry. I'm actually glad you posted an excerpt, because I had been thinking about reading this one, and at least that part reads like gun-nut wet dream. Even though I agree with the sentiment being clumsily rammed down my throat, that doesn't make the experience enjoyable in the least.

There's also the "preaching to the choir" effect with this sort of stuff. I mean, what am I going to get out of it? Government is bad and should fear the governed? The government is abusive and wants to take my guns? What? That guns are precisely for the purpose in overthrowing a tyrannical government? We've been over it. I don't know about you, but I get it.

Brohawk's reference to Jefferson's writings reminds me that the best writing on liberty was laid to paper a while ago. Even the relatively unhinged lunatic Patrick Henry was infinitely more eloquent than most writers today. I think that's the good stuff, even if it doesn't go into silly irrelevant technical detail like this gun-nut stuff does.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 9:08:22 PM EDT
Excellent read wasnt it.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 9:12:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ElCamino:

Originally Posted By drjarhead:

Originally Posted By ElCamino:
That has to be the most masturbatory bit of writing I've ever read in my life.

Yeah, I get the point, but wow, that was terrible.



Ya know, there's really no reason to act like a dick other than you like it and the people you are acting like a dick towards aren't in your immediate vicinity. As you said, you got the point and everyone has their own way of expressing themselves. Now that I'm on the subject, I've never seen you contribute anything useful or constructive yet.



It's just really bad writing, sorry. I'm actually glad you posted an excerpt, because I had been thinking about reading this one, and at least that part reads like gun-nut wet dream. Even though I agree with the sentiment being clumsily rammed down my throat, that doesn't make the experience enjoyable in the least.

There's also the "preaching to the choir" effect with this sort of stuff. I mean, what am I going to get out of it? Government is bad and should fear the governed? The government is abusive and wants to take my guns? What? That guns are precisely for the purpose in overthrowing a tyrannical government? We've been over it. I don't know about you, but I get it.

Brohawk's reference to Jefferson's writings reminds me that the best writing on liberty was laid to paper a while ago. Even the relatively unhinged lunatic Patrick Henry was infinitely more eloquent than most writers today. I think that's the good stuff, even if it doesn't go into silly irrelevant technical detail like this gun-nut stuff does.




Another book review by somebody I see hasn't even read the book????? The book isn't about all government is bad,but more like certain small groups in government can get out of control.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 9:23:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By copenhagen:

Another book review by somebody I see hasn't even read the book????? The book isn't about all government is bad,but more like certain small groups in government can get out of control.



Then I see I disagree with the author already.

I just thought that part that was posted was, well, clumsy, for lack of a better word. Of course the rest of it could be great. The part where he was listing guns and referring to "5.56 and 7.62" was a little too much gun nerdery for me to sit down with I think.

It also shows a lack of understanding of the other side. The comment about the "only militia is the National Guard" belies that I think, because most people do NOT think of the National Guard as anything but a part of the military at large and NOT a militia. The only time that's ever been brought up is in 2A arguments. It's like the author took all of the harebrained-really-reaching-for-it semi-legal arguments for gun control and made an ATF agent out of them. Puke. Great for rah-rah-go-team I guess but not very helpful in determining what to do, other than to drum up more hate for the government, which if you're reading this book you're probably not lacking in that department in the first place.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 9:27:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2006 9:27:35 PM EDT by KnobCreek]

Originally Posted By ThirtyCal_FAL:

Originally Posted By Fourays2:
whilst a good read, it pales in comparison to unintended consequences.



I have read Unintended Consequences several times along with Patriots. Those are must reads. I read Black Arrow by Suprynowicz and Molon Labe too. The latter left me wondering WTF? Black Arrow was a well written and entertaining book, but the futuristic setting left it a bit wanting IMHO only. I would recommend you read them all.





+1 on all of the above. I just finished Unintended Consequence for the 2nd time. I may name my first son, "Henry"
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 10:03:52 PM EDT
as much as I liked Unintended Consequence it just had to much Henry Bowman super wonder man of shooting.

I like Enemies Foreign and Domestic alot better. The whole premise of terrorist attack leading to banning of all semis and then later banning of all scoped rifles seemed alot more probable plus the protangists are just normal people thrown into the mess.

I really liked the Historic backgrounds of gun control in UC thu just the whole superman aspect of bowman and his crew was overplayed.

I also liked the end of Enemies Foreign and Domestic. I think my favorite scene is when the one guy has the vision of all the previus freedom fighters essently telling him we know its tough stick with it but it can be done.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 3:41:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ElCamino:

Originally Posted By copenhagen:

Another book review by somebody I see hasn't even read the book????? The book isn't about all government is bad,but more like certain small groups in government can get out of control.



Then I see I disagree with the author already.

I just thought that part that was posted was, well, clumsy, for lack of a better word. Of course the rest of it could be great. The part where he was listing guns and referring to "5.56 and 7.62" was a little too much gun nerdery for me to sit down with I think.

It also shows a lack of understanding of the other side. The comment about the "only militia is the National Guard" belies that I think, because most people do NOT think of the National Guard as anything but a part of the military at large and NOT a militia. The only time that's ever been brought up is in 2A arguments. It's like the author took all of the harebrained-really-reaching-for-it semi-legal arguments for gun control and made an ATF agent out of them. Puke. Great for rah-rah-go-team I guess but not very helpful in determining what to do, other than to drum up more hate for the government, which if you're reading this book you're probably not lacking in that department in the first place.



No I dont hate the government at all. By making that remark however YOU show where YOU stand not myself. Government has good people and bad people. Our job is to make sure the bad people do not get control.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 3:47:19 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 3:51:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 3:52:50 AM EDT by Hawkeye]
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 3:54:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ElCamino:It's like the author took all of the harebrained-really-reaching-for-it semi-legal arguments for gun control and made an ATF agent out of them.





Link Posted: 3/8/2006 6:13:51 AM EDT

Originally Posted By copenhagen:


No I dont hate the government at all. By making that remark however YOU show where YOU stand not myself. Government has good people and bad people. Our job is to make sure the bad people do not get control.



we already failed at this.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:10:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By the_survivalist:

Originally Posted By copenhagen:


No I dont hate the government at all. By making that remark however YOU show where YOU stand not myself. Government has good people and bad people. Our job is to make sure the bad people do not get control.



we already failed at this.



Unfortunately, I agree.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:14:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:27:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By DVDTracker:
Shamless plug

www.lifelibertyetc.com/product.aspx?pid=26



If you didn't I was going to. I bought my copies of EFAD and Patriots from you... Hell Patriots was even signed by the author!
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:28:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cyrax777:
as much as I liked Unintended Consequence it just had to much Henry Bowman super wonder man of shooting.

I like Enemies Foreign and Domestic alot better. The whole premise of terrorist attack leading to banning of all semis and then later banning of all scoped rifles seemed alot more probable plus the protangists are just normal people thrown into the mess.

I really liked the Historic backgrounds of gun control in UC thu just the whole superman aspect of bowman and his crew was overplayed.

I also liked the end of Enemies Foreign and Domestic. I think my favorite scene is when the one guy has the vision of all the previus freedom fighters essently telling him we know its tough stick with it but it can be done.



Um, Before his stroke, John Ross COULD shoot like that.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:34:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By copenhagen:

Originally Posted By ElCamino:

Originally Posted By copenhagen:

Another book review by somebody I see hasn't even read the book????? The book isn't about all government is bad,but more like certain small groups in government can get out of control.



Then I see I disagree with the author already.

I just thought that part that was posted was, well, clumsy, for lack of a better word. Of course the rest of it could be great. The part where he was listing guns and referring to "5.56 and 7.62" was a little too much gun nerdery for me to sit down with I think.

It also shows a lack of understanding of the other side. The comment about the "only militia is the National Guard" belies that I think, because most people do NOT think of the National Guard as anything but a part of the military at large and NOT a militia. The only time that's ever been brought up is in 2A arguments. It's like the author took all of the harebrained-really-reaching-for-it semi-legal arguments for gun control and made an ATF agent out of them. Puke. Great for rah-rah-go-team I guess but not very helpful in determining what to do, other than to drum up more hate for the government, which if you're reading this book you're probably not lacking in that department in the first place.



No I dont hate the government at all. By making that remark however YOU show where YOU stand not myself. Government has good people and bad people. Our job is to make sure the bad people do not get control.



It's a filthy, disgusting job but someone has to be a 5th Columnist.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:46:43 AM EDT
If you havent read either book then STFU elcamino. Do you still watch PC cartoons? UC and EFAD I passed on to another member in TN for shipping. He sent me a 20spot in cash through the mail relying on my honesty. Anyone remember those days? UC is set in the "good ole days" and EFAD is current day presentation of the same theme.Now this "Patriots" book I plan on looking up......TIA.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:21:07 AM EDT

The sequel to EFAD is about Aztlan, the bronze horde and the coming Pali-style war for the Balkanized America.


Drat! There went my idea for a novel!!!

Oh well, I'll get it and read it.


The author, Matt Bracken, posts here on rare occasion as Travis McGee.

He's also my brother-in-law's brother-in-law.




I'll bet there are some interesting discussions in his circle of friends/family.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 9:14:11 AM EDT
i got molon labe from amazon and patriots from freds m14 stocks if anybody wants to check there for them
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 9:16:13 AM EDT
Matt Bracken seems to be a pretty good guy to. We've sent some emails back and forth and he's been quick to respond and very friendly, even sent me some promo stuff for free
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 4:21:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/8/2006 4:22:18 PM EDT by PromptCritical]

Originally Posted By fiend:
Matt Bracken seems to be a pretty good guy to. We've sent some emails back and forth and he's been quick to respond and very friendly, even sent me some promo stuff for free



He posts on TheHighRoad as "Travis McGee" and GlockTalk as "Matt Bracken"...

ETA: John Ross also posts on THR from time to time...
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 4:26:42 PM EDT
Let me sum up EFAD for you: Don't F*** With Tidewater, VA
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 5:35:43 PM EDT
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