Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Weren't some expended 5.8mm cartridge cases found in the LA area? Urban myth? I think I heard about this. I heard it was in AZ along the border.

There is a book called Silent Invasion by Scott Gulbransen

It mentions those rounds being found as well as a purported Chinese military buildup in Mexico. Its an interesting read

Quoted: if it's like any other kind of chinese military equipment I've ever handled, i wouldnt worry about it.  it'll break after the first few shots. i have NEVER had a chinese gun part work properly.

Certainly true of the past.....However....the little people have one hell of a lot of world class, state of the art CNC mill and lathe capability, metallurgical capability and much more so if this new MBR is a POS then they designed it to be a POS to save money, raw materials etc.

The old Chinese AK's were crap, the SKS's were crap to be sure. I wouldn't jump to that conclusion with this rifle. Time will tell.

One major question is 'What exactly is going to come out the end of that thing...ammo wise', and are they fielding a GPMG in the same caliber?

I know the following will get me hosed on this site....but.....the venerable 5.56 is a 200 yd round in the 62 grain variant.  From what I've read (SGN), much better terminal ballistics are available with the new 77(?) grain pill and pushes the envelope out considerably. Unfortunately the AR needs a new (longer) barrel and a fricking armorer to be 'upgraded'. Now before you hit the reply button, think about it. The 5.56 started life as 55 grain, then 62 and now 70-something. That tells me that its lacking something and the MIL guys are trying to fix it. Short barrel carbines don't help the situation either. Issuing an upgrade and new ammo is a hell of a lot cheaper than issuing a new rifle in a new caliber too.

Our boys in the sand box have been damned fortunate that an AP type round capable of defeating their body armor has not been widely used on the battlefield. That's one reason I cringe at the possibilities of hundreds of millions of Chicoms armed with a much better rifle than the AK in either 7.62 or 5.45 and capable of penetrating state of the art body armor.

What say you?

Quoted: The old Chinese AK's were crap, the SKS's were crap to be sure. I wouldn't jump to that conclusion with this rifle. Time will tell.

Um, no.

Quoted: Quoted: The old Chinese AK's were crap, the SKS's were crap to be sure. I wouldn't jump to that conclusion with this rifle. Time will tell. Um, no.

+1

My Chinese NORINCO 84S in .223 is the best AK I've ever had, period. Better than the Euros.

Quoted: if it's like any other kind of chinese military equipment I've ever handled, i wouldnt worry about it.  it'll break after the first few shots. i have NEVER had a chinese gun part work properly.

Ever handle a 56S all matching wood,threaded slant brake,stainless rod carrier and bolt,chrome bore and barrel?  Dust cover,carrier bolt every thing matching numbers(entire gun made to fit)they command a little more but are worth it!!!

Bob

Quoted: Quoted: www.sinodefence.com/army/small_arms/type03rifle1lg.jpg Looks cheap. So uhm... when can we place our orders? J/K 5.8 is going to be hard to find in the US. China did make the T-97 a .223/5.56 export version of the 5.8 T-95, so I wouldn't doubt that if the T-03 went into production, China would make a 5.56 export model.

You forget the dickhead in office decreed no more Chinese arms, Norinco/Polytech/Mitchell sold to Saddaam pre-invasion, and then thiers what really ices the bullshit they sold to us after invasion to arm the Iraqis.  To me that says the ban had another intent.

Quoted: Looks like a typical ChiCom piece of shit to me.

^
What he said. Could pass for a fairly realistic child's toy....

Quoted: Quoted: Wish they could import them.  I'd buy one. Some people would buy rifles straight from al quaida if they could

And anything else as long as it was cheap.
And Nero fiddles as Rome burned.

You can critisize china or whoever but the US should be held more accountable for not developing more kick ass small arms than the rest of the world. Arent we like a superpower or something?

This thread is starting to remind me of grumpy old fuckers during the '80s who insisted Japanese electronics was all "junk" even as they slowly edged out and took over most of the industry.

If Hesse exported to, say, Australia, would it be logical for an Aussie to assume "Amercian AR's are all junk?"

So solly! All your Hesse are belong to us!