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Posted: 3/5/2006 11:15:39 AM EDT
Case in point: 1989. My high school gym teacher.
He was the football coach, and loved by all.
I was not a jock. Instead, I was a chess team / scholastic bowl nerd.
And he despised nerds. He made my life rough.
I had straight As that year, except for the C from him in PE.
I participated. I did the best I could. But because I wasn't an athelete, I got a C.
And a C in PE counts the same as a C in any other class.

My freshman year of college, we learned the shocking news that he was carrying
an extension ladder around his house, and found the powerlines.
Dead before he hit the ground.

I heard about it while around a lot of other students from the same high school.
I muttered something about it not being a great loss.

A couple of girls started in on me about how I shouldn't say that "because he just died".

I said that the fact that he is dead doesn't change the fact he was an asshole when he was alive.

So am I supposed to show respect for someone simply because they died?
Am I supposed to somehow feel bad that they died?

This relates to grandparents of mine who I have hated for a LONG time, and the feeling
is mutual. They are only getting older, and will probably kick off in a couple of years.
I've been told that because they are my grandparents, I should have "respect".
Again, WHY?



Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:17:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 11:17:21 AM EDT by Red_Beard]
Nope. Sometimes I feel good.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:17:52 AM EDT
Ask me when Jimmy Carter bites the dust.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:18:15 AM EDT
fuck 'em.

rj
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:18:48 AM EDT
Meh, I don't blame you.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:19:01 AM EDT
Maybe you only did deserve a C...


Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:19:08 AM EDT
Respect is something you earn, as far as your old teacher, he didnt earn any respect from you so I dont see that he deserves any from you.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:19:28 AM EDT
I may be sorry for thier family, depending.

Otherwise, I'm not sorry, and, I'll say so without any remorse.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:20:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:
Case in point: 1989. My high school gym teacher.
He was the football coach, and loved by all.
I was not a jock. Instead, I was a chess team / scholastic bowl nerd.
And he despised nerds. He made my life rough. I had straight As that year, except for the C from him in PE.
I participated. I did the best I could. But because I wasn't an athelete, I got a C.
And a C in PE counts the same as a C in any other class.

My freshman year of college, we learned the shocking news that he was carrying
an extension ladder around his house, and found the powerlines.
Dead before he hit the ground.

I heard about it while around a lot of other students from the same high school.
I muttered something about it not being a great loss.

A couple of girls started in on me about how I shouldn't say that "because he just died".

I said that the fact that he is dead doesn't change the fact he was an asshole when he was alive.

So am I supposed to show respect for someone simply because they died?
Am I supposed to somehow feel bad that they died?

This relates to grandparents of mine who I have hated for a LONG time, and the feeling
is mutual. They are only getting older, and will probably kick off in a couple of years.
I've been told that because they are my grandparents, I should have "respect".
Again, WHY?






[Ogre] NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRDS! [/Ogre]
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:20:24 AM EDT
Issues...

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:20:37 AM EDT
nope, I hate how people are turned into "angels" when they die. If they were assholes they were assholes, it is simaler to people saying "Don't say that, it is mean" Fuck that if it is true that say whatever the F-bomb you want. Like when John Ritter died every came out saying how great and funny he was, bullshit!!, I've never seem anything he has done to validate his existence
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:21:28 AM EDT
You should have been at my grandfather's funeral three years ago.

Boy, did I stir up a hornet's nest.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:22:22 AM EDT
You could say "damn that sucks, but i never liked him anyway"
Just cuz he was a asshole to you doesnt mean he deserves to die or that tou cant pay your respects to him atleast for the people who did like him
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:22:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:28:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
Issues...




No issues here. He is dead.
What better poetic justice.
I was tormented because I wasn't a jock.
And he was too stupid to not watch for power lines.

This topic came up during a discussion my wife and I were having.

Somehow it was brought up that a guy she knew from high school died,
and she thought "good", because he was an ass.
Her friends got on her because she should talk that way about someone
who just died.

It reminded me of my high school gym teacher, and how I faced the same thing from people.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:30:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
You should have been at my grandfather's funeral three years ago.

Boy, did I stir up a hornet's nest.



What happened?
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:31:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Stlkid:
You could say "damn that sucks, but i never liked him anyway"
Just cuz he was a asshole to you doesnt mean he deserves to die or that tou cant pay your respects to him atleast for the people who did like him



You mean lie and act like you're in the least bit sorry?

Screw that.

I won't be at thier funeral danceing on their graves, but, I sure
ain't gona play kissy-face is somone asks me my opinion.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:34:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By Stlkid:
You could say "damn that sucks, but i never liked him anyway"
Just cuz he was a asshole to you doesnt mean he deserves to die or that tou cant pay your respects to him atleast for the people who did like him



You mean lie and act like you're in the least bit sorry?

Screw that.

I won't be at thier funeral danceing on their graves, but, I sure
ain't gona play kissy-face is somone asks me my opinion.



I usually try to follow the "if you don't have anything nice to say..." rule in that kind of situation.

I'm not going to lie and say nice things about an asshole, but I'm not going to badmouth someone in front of his mourning family, even if he was a dickhole. "no comment"
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:39:28 AM EDT
The bible tells us that God finds no joy in the death of any person.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:49:23 AM EDT
The dead guy either has way more important things to worry about or isn’t going to ever worry about anything ever again. (Depending on which religion is right.)

But, you should have respect for the feelings of those still living.

There are something like six billion people on the planet right now, we aren’t exactly an endangered species. And, there’s far more tragedy and suffering in the world than any one person can even begin to deal with. We can’t go around feeling sorry for everyone.

So, when some asshole dies off in a comical way just feel free to be secretly happy about the situation. But don’t go adding to the loss and suffering other people are feeling by voicing your pleasure.

Oh and one more thing…

That teacher probably gave you the grade you deserve in Gym. Think about it. Some guy who doesn’t have the God given brainpower you do has to struggle with math and makes a C. It’s not that he didn’t try but he lacks the natural ability. And because he lacks that ability he feels like the math teachers don’t particularly like him…

So, god didn’t bless you physically as well as he did others and you have to struggle in Gym to get that C. And naturally the teacher shows favoritism to his better students.

It’s the same thing.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 11:54:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:

Originally Posted By Stlkid:
You could say "damn that sucks, but i never liked him anyway"
Just cuz he was a asshole to you doesnt mean he deserves to die or that tou cant pay your respects to him atleast for the people who did like him



You mean lie and act like you're in the least bit sorry?

Screw that.

I won't be at thier funeral danceing on their graves, but, I sure
ain't gona play kissy-face is somone asks me my opinion.



Im not saying respect the guy, im saying respect the people that did care for him

Probably the safest thing to do is to just keep your opinions about him to yourself
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:00:15 PM EDT
I don't feel bad at all when an asshole dies.

I wouldn't count my grandmother as an asshole, but she's never exaclty been kind to me. When she dies, I will shed no tears.

I will most certainly not be discussing this with loved ones, however.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:00:24 PM EDT
joy? ...no
feel bad ...no
the only person i ever really disliked dies in a casr wreak about 2 years after we graduated HS
I didn't feel bad but i took no joy from his death
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:01:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
Issues...




No issues here. He is dead.
What better poetic justice.


So death is poetic justice for giving you a hard time? daaayuuuumhock.gif
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:02:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 12:03:36 PM EDT by rob1]
oops, double tap
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:03:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rjay:
fuck 'em.

rj




+1..........if you don't deserve my respect while you're alive, you sure as hell will not get it when you're dead.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:08:04 PM EDT
No need to rejoice in the fact but don't feel obligated to feel bad.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:10:53 PM EDT
I wonder what it is that makes us think that "our respect" is such a valuable commodity?

It is much healthier to live a life in which the opinions of others mean very little. Just as you don't have to remember what you said if you just tell the truth, you don't need to be concerned about the opinions of others if you have done your best.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:17:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
Issues...




No issues here. He is dead.
What better poetic justice.
I was tormented because I wasn't a jock.
And he was too stupid to not watch for power lines.

This topic came up during a discussion my wife and I were having.

Somehow it was brought up that a guy she knew from high school died,
and she thought "good", because he was an ass.
Her friends got on her because she should talk that way about someone
who just died.

It reminded me of my high school gym teacher, and how I faced the same thing from people.




Yes issues...

If you are happy someone died because of gym class there are issues… not healthy. If you think you need to or have a right to interject your opinion on other people who are grieving you not only have issues you have bad manners and poor taste.

My brother always said the gym teacher picked on him because he was not a jock... the real reason he got picked on was he was a smug smarmy smart ass punk who thought he was intellectually above everyone else and acted that way.

That don’t even get in to the hating grandparents part… weather they deserve it or not.

Issues...



Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:17:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By rob1:

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:
Issues...




No issues here. He is dead.
What better poetic justice.


So death is poetic justice for giving you a hard time? daaayuuuum



Hey, it wasn't as if I killed him or anything.

But yea. To answer your question.
Its a terrible thing that he was killed and left friends/family to morn him.
Asside from that, I'm glad he is dead.
There were a couple of other kids in my class that he treated worse.
And I'm sure there were many others before and after me.
... well, not too many after me.



Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:19:40 PM EDT
Usually not.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:20:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

That don’t even get in to the hating grandparents part… weather they deserve it or not.




Why is that?
Do you believe that relatives are above being on your shit list?

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:21:58 PM EDT
George Costanza......"can't stand ya"

if he was an asshole to you ..the hell with him.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:24:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

If you are happy someone died because of gym class there are issues… not healthy.



So you have never been "glad" someone has died?
Someone you despised so much that you smiled to yourself when they put him in the ground?

My "gym teacher" might be someone else co-worker, or ex-spouse, or ... fill in the blank.
Someone that you feel the world would be better off without.

I've got to say, if you have lived your life and never hated someone, you must be the most
mellow person alive.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:25:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

That don’t even get in to the hating grandparents part… weather they deserve it or not.




Why is that?
Do you believe that relatives are above being on your shit list?




I don't think it is healthy for you to feel the need to hate family... even though it is sometimes justified. Far better to let it go.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:26:48 PM EDT
Sometimes you have to ask yourself WWSLJS

What would Samuel L. Jackson Say?

Answer: Samuel L. Jackson
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:26:52 PM EDT
There is this one high school teacher... and when he dies, I will probably take a week off just to fly to his grave and dance on it, and spend the rest of the week partying.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:28:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Will-Rogers:
The bible tells us that God finds no joy in the death of any person.



Yeah thats great and all, but I'm not God.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:29:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

If you are happy someone died because of gym class there are issues… not healthy.



So you have never been "glad" someone has died?
Someone you despised so much that you smiled to yourself when they put him in the ground?

My "gym teacher" might be someone else co-worker, or ex-spouse, or ... fill in the blank.
Someone that you feel the world would be better off without.

I've got to say, if you have lived your life and never hated someone, you must be the most
mellow person alive.



No not a gym teacher... never glad. Give a shit less yes but hate or glad no.

I reserve that kind of feeling for important things.

The real problem is your need to interject your feelings on those who are grieving… that is inexcusable bad manners.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:34:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

The real problem is your need to interject your feelings on those who are grieving… that is inexcusable bad manners.



It wasn't as if I was at the wake and erected banners telling the entire crowd what I thought of the guy.

It was a group of friends, someone mentioned the fact he was killed, and amongst the
"oh my god, really?" type comments, I gave my comment.

Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:35:05 PM EDT
I feel really bad when good people die.


Why shouldn't the opposite be true?

Just think Michael Moore
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:35:40 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:36:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:
Case in point: 1989. My high school gym teacher.
He was the football coach, and loved by all.
I was not a jock. Instead, I was a chess team / scholastic bowl nerd.
And he despised nerds. He made my life rough.
...............My freshman year of college, we learned the shocking news that he was carrying
an extension ladder around his house, and found the powerlines.
Dead before he hit the ground.

I heard about it while around a lot of other students from the same high school.
I muttered something about it not being a great loss.

A couple of girls started in on me about how I shouldn't say that "because he just died".

I said that the fact that he is dead doesn't change the fact he was an asshole when he was alive.

So am I supposed to show respect for someone simply because they died?
Am I supposed to somehow feel bad that they died?..................



Obviously you do not have to respect someone after death that you did not respect in life. Not a very complex issue really. If someone was a dirtbag to you, to hell with him. I can understand why you won't shed any tears in his passing.

If someone asks for your opinion, tell them but I wouldn't go out of my way to make it known that I didn't like him. Why make a public issue of not liking the guy. I might not respect the dead guy but I respect my friends, fellow students and acquaintances that did like him.

Put the shoe on the other foot. Let's say you have a nerd teacher in charge of your chess team that you respect a lot and means a lot to you. Then he dies in an accident. Do you want the jocks to go around saying what a great day it is because the nerd deserved to die. After all, he didn't like sports and hated jocks. Let's all rejoice with his passing.

I think they would be wrong for doing it as much as you would be for doing the same thing. I might not care for chess or the people that play it but I respect you right to do what makes you happy and follow the people you like. Why should I disrespect you if a friend or mentor of your's dies by belittling a person you look up to?
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:47:37 PM EDT
Sometime it's a sad thing when someone dies, But in many cases the world is a better places. JMHO
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:56:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 12:59:59 PM EDT by Max_Mike]

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By Max_Mike:

The real problem is your need to interject your feelings on those who are grieving… that is inexcusable bad manners.



It wasn't as if I was at the wake and erected banners telling the entire crowd what I thought of the guy.

It was a group of friends, someone mentioned the fact he was killed, and amongst the
"oh my god, really?" type comments, I gave my comment.




Still bad manners and petty... better to say nothing.

Part of the problem in this society is everyone has become so self important they actually think people need to know their every opinion even in a situation where they should have the manners and tact to be quite.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 1:20:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By The_Reaper:

Originally Posted By Wobblin-Goblin:
You should have been at my grandfather's funeral three years ago.

Boy, did I stir up a hornet's nest.


What happened?


In a nutshell, my grandparents came over on a ship from Italy in the '30s. They were "old world." Well, my grandfather was a mean SOB who beat the sh*t out of my grandmother all the time. After being fed stories about this stuff my whole childhood, I obviously never bothered to establish any kind of relationship with him. Fast forward to his old age and my mom was constantly telling me I ought to care more about my grandfather and I just let the words roll off my back. Even with gramps being on his deathbed, I didn't go visit him. Well, at the funeral, I got up when they asked if anybody had anything to say, and I pretty much let it all out. I said I felt cheated for not having a kind, old grampa and that all these people pining away about how nice the guy was left me wondering if we were talking about the same guy I was told be wary of for all those years.

I had a few people come up to me afterwards (mostly cousins) and say, "I was thinking the same thing!" However, my parents and some of my aunts and uncles WERE PISSED. Needless to say, I was in the family doghouse for a while after that one.

For the life of me, I don't understand the mentality behind the whole situation. By most accounts, my grandfather was an absolute terror to my grandmother for years and yet when he's old and dies we're supposed to forget all about it and say how wonderful he was. Maybe I'm missing something.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 1:46:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Burkey:

Originally Posted By Will-Rogers:
The bible tells us that God finds no joy in the death of any person.



Yeah thats great and all, but I'm not God.




+1
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 1:48:17 PM EDT
no.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 2:11:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 2:26:37 PM EDT by OBird]
None of us are perfect. There's probably at least one or two people that would be happy if any of us died, because they were only exposed to our "bad side" (either that or some people here are just a complete jerk). You're concentrating only on the person's shortcomings, you should at least give him the benefit of the doubt and try to focus on some good in him. Or at least mourn the potential loss of the nicer person he might have become had he lived longer.

I wouldn't expect you to break down crying in remorse, but I would at least try to put aside my dark feelings for him in respect of the fact that, in all likelyhood, he is/was probably in the same situation as you are to a few people (at least potentially). Always treat someone as you would like them to treat you. After all, being at least respectful can't hurt. Stop me if I'm wrong, but I've always kind of thought that it is the mark of a more mature individual that they can show kindness to those who don't show it, instead of countering contempt by "sinking to their level" and showing the same amount of contempt in return.

ETA: Please note that I'm not trying to be "Holier-than-Thou" here. I wasn't in your situation, and I don't know how I would have reacted myself in your shoes. The above is simply how I feel someone should ideally respond if possible.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 2:14:57 PM EDT
Wobblin Goblin! BALLS MAN! BALLS!
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 2:16:49 PM EDT

Do you feel bad when an asshole dies?

nope
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