Ha Ha! Looks like I trolled up some sh!te by stating that I manually de-cock.  I thought I might.  Manual de-cocking is fun!  You've got to try it.  And the CZ-75/85s have great DA triggers.  I don't carry my 85 Combat, I just use it for USPSA competion in the Production Division.  Per the rules, I MUST decock before the first draw, and the only way to do that is manually.  The CZ-75/85 is a winning gun in USPSA Production and several current champions (like Angus Hobdell and Mathew Mink) use them and they manually decock in the blink of an eye.  Usually one handed.  

Here's the generally accepted info. on DA/SA and procedure for manual de-cocking from the CZ experts:

p201.ezboard.com/fczechpistols82792frm25.showMessage?topicID=92.topic

When I get a 75B for carry I may carry it hammer down in DA mode.  I can go either way, cocked and locked or DA/SA and haven't decided how I'd prefer to carry the CZ-75 yet.  I like that it does both.  I wouldn't feel comfortable with the hammer down on a pre-B or my 85 Combat without the FP safety but that's just me.  I practice a lot (in USPSA competitions) at dropping the hammer and at starting with hammer down so that may have the edge.   Dropping the hammer doesn't bother me.  I don't like the de-cocker (-75BD) guns because then you loose the cocked-and-locked option.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unless you have the CZ-75BD (for Decocker), there is no safe way to decock the firearm once a round is chambered. I beg to differ,  as I've safely decocked the CZ in the picture with a round chambered on many occasions. Maybe you could enlighten us as to how you safely decock a firearm with no decocker. 1. Point the weapon in a safe direction. 2. Grab hold of the hammer. 3. Pull trigger. 4. Gently lower hammer. If you fuck it up, see #1.

Fixed it for you!


ETA:  Grabbing hold of the hammer and gently lowering it are 2 fine motor skills that one can f*ck up pretty easily.  Why not just train to carry it cocked and locked.  IMO, you will result in a lot less NDs that way.  I'm sorry, but sooner or later that tinly little hammer is going to slip out of your fingers, IMO.  Just my .02, but feel free to carry how ever you decide is best and safest for you!

Quoted: Ha Ha! Looks like I trolled up some sh!te by stating that I manually de-cock.  I thought I might.  Manual de-cocking is fun!  You've got to try it.  And the CZ-75/85s have great DA triggers.  I don't carry my 85 Combat, I just use it for USPSA competion in the Production Division.  Per the rules, I MUST decock before the first draw, and the only way to do that is manually.  The CZ-75/85 is a winning gun in USPSA Production and several current champions (like Angus Hobdell and Mathew Mink) use them and they manually decock in the blink of an eye.  Usually one handed.

Pretty amazing stuff!

Well, I guess I am not high-speed enough or prefeshonal enuf to decock like that, so I'll stick with the "safe" method.  BTW, since you are stirring up sh!te for fun, I will just point out that USPSA and IDPA are not gunfighting.

Quoted: Pretty amazing stuff! Well, I guess I am not high-speed enough or prefeshonal enuf to decock like that, so I'll stick with the "safe" method.  BTW, since you are stirring up sh!te for fun, I will just point out that USPSA and IDPA are not gunfighting.

True.  But it builds more usable skills than sitting on your a$$ dry firing at the TV.  And we're all going to defensive pistol classes anyway right?  I just can't seem to find enough real gunfights.  

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unless you have the CZ-75BD (for Decocker), there is no safe way to decock the firearm once a round is chambered. I beg to differ,  as I've safely decocked the CZ in the picture with a round chambered on many occasions. Maybe you could enlighten us as to how you safely decock a firearm with no decocker.

Generations of people have de-cocked 30-30 lever guns and single shot shotguns this way. Guns have to be idiot proof today to keep dumbasses from suing the makers. And yes i do this with my CZ-75 B, all the time, with some practice you can do it with one hand.

I suprises me that some -75 owners seem to have never thought of why it even has a DA mode.  How else would you use it if you don't drop the hammer on a live round?  

And if the DA mode is not there to be used (by those who prefer it), why would it have been designed and built into the gun?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unless you have the CZ-75BD (for Decocker), there is no safe way to decock the firearm once a round is chambered. I beg to differ,  as I've safely decocked the CZ in the picture with a round chambered on many occasions. Maybe you could enlighten us as to how you safely decock a firearm with no decocker. 1. Point the weapon in a safe direction. 2. Grab hold of the hammer. 3. Pull trigger. 4. Gently lower hammer. If you fuck it up, see #1. Fixed it for you! ETA:  Grabbing hold of the hammer and gently lowering it are 2 fine motor skills that one can f*ck up pretty easily.  Why not just train to carry it cocked and locked.  IMO, you will result in a lot less NDs that way.  I'm sorry, but sooner or later that tinly little hammer is going to slip out of your fingers, IMO.  Just my .02, but feel free to carry how ever you decide is best and safest for you!

How do you fuck up lowering the hammer on a gun? I've been doing it on my .30-30, the .357 Magnum revolver, my shotgun, and a bunch of other guns since I was old enough to handle a gun. It's only difficult if you're either afflicted with serious palsy, partially paralyzed, or so fucking retarded that you don't even know what a gun is and think you're handling some sort of really cool rock. I mean, seriously, it's not difficult.

And this is coming from someone who's never had an unintentional discharge, negligent, accidental, or otherwise.

It's probably safer than a Glock.  

I read the linked czforum explanation of dropping the hammer on a live chamber, and something doesn't ring true.  The article claims protection via the half-cock notch and the inertial firing pin.

If you pull the trigger back to a certain point, the hammer will drop past both notches.  Reliance on the half-cock therefore requires the user (who just fucked up by letting the hammer go and most likely won't be feeling overly wonderful about that fact), to release the trigger before the hammer can rotate past the half-cock notch.  

Reliance on the inertial firing pin requires faith that the hammer was retarded enough in the fumble that it won't have enough oomph. God help he with touchy primers.

The article further claims protection via the firing pin block on the B model.  I'd imagine that pulling the trigger such as to release the hammer would disengage that safety, and we get into the same problem as with the half-cock notch.

All this really is unimportant if you follow through on #1 and keep it pointed somewhere safe.  Me, I don't have a berm at home.  Neighbors would complain of the noise.  Fiancee vetoed the snail catcher.  Oh yea, and that whole trigger discipline thing.  

SA was good enough for your grandpappy, it's good enough for you.  Fucking whippersnappers, I tell ya

You naysayers just need to try dropping the hammer on your -75 and all will become clear.  Get up now, go to your -75, unload it, point it in a safe direction and follow the manual hammer dropping instructions.  You'll be doing one handed drops in no time.  

The half-cock and FP safety come into play when manually lowering the hammer.  If you only lower the hammer a bit (which is very easy to control), then release the trigger, the half cock and FP safety will engage preventing full hammer drop and FP movement.  The czforums explanation is correct.  You're just not seeing it yet.  Again, don't be afraid.  Just try it.  

Key:  Don't let the hammer slip.  

It's that simple and not at all difficult to master.  Not unlike the Glock rule: "don't touch the trigger..."

I'd rather drop the hammer on a CZ than carry a Glock.  

Hammer dropping is as old as guns themselves and precedes "cocked and locked".  

Quoted: You naysayers just need to try dropping the hammer on your -75 and all will become clear.  Get up now, go to your -75, unload it, point it in a safet direction and follow the manual hammer dropping instructions.  You'll be doing one handed drops in no time.   The half-cock and FP safety come into play both when you still manually holding the hammer.  If you only allow the hammer to fall a bit with your thumb and fore finger, then release the trigger, the half cock and FP safety will engage.  Again, don't be afraid.  Just try it.

I've tried it and I didn't discharge my gun.  I'm just saying anytime you pull the trigger on a firearm you run the risk of it doing what it is designed to do:  FIRE!  

If it is so safe to do, then why point it in a safe direction?  Why not point it at your head?

I understand what you all are getting at.  You can pull the trigger and drop the hammer without discharging a round in your sleep.  It only takes one time to screw it up and put a hole in something you don't want to.  I'd rather not take that risk, personally.  Feel free to call me a pussy, though.

And, FWIW, I never have to pull the trigger on my Glock to safely holster it.

Quoted: Quoted: Maybe you could enlighten us as to how you safely decock a firearm with no decocker. Generations of people have de-cocked 30-30 lever guns and single shot shotguns this way. Guns have to be idiot proof today to keep dumbasses from suing the makers. And yes i do this with my CZ-75 B, all the time, with some practice you can do it with one hand.

This is exactly what I was going to post.

FWIW, I love my CZ-75 and carry it on occasion.  I carry it cocked and locked.

Quoted: I've tried it and I didn't discharge my gun.  I'm just saying anytime you pull the trigger on a firearm you run the risk of it doing what it is designed to do:  FIRE!   If it is so safe to do, then why point it in a safe direction?  Why not point it at your head?

Always point the gun in a safe direction. Rule #1.  

If the gun wasn't meant to be fired DA,  then why isn't it single action only?  

You may be pulling the trigger,  but you are also controlling the hammer.   If you are so clumsy that you can't handle that,  then you shouldn't be shooting guns.   For pete's sake,  I grew up shooting old style SA revolvers without the crappy transfer bar safety,   never once had a problem putting the hammer down on a loaded chamber,  even as a 5 year old.  

Quoted: Always point the gun in a safe direction. Rule #1.

Keep your finger OFF the trigger until your gun is on target and you are ready to shoot.  Rule #2

If the gun wasn't meant to be fired DA,  then why isn't it single action only?

It can also be used as a hammer or a doorstop, too, but it wasn't meant for such purposes.

You may be pulling the trigger,  but you are also controlling the hammer.   If you are so clumsy that you can't handle that,  then you shouldn't be shooting guns.

Just because it can be done doesn't mean it is a safe action.  That is all I am saying.  Keep on doing it the way you want, but I choose to carry a different way.  My way is safe 100%.  I do not ever need to put my finger on the trigger until I am ready to shoot.  This is my point.  I am nto trying to say the way some of the rest of you are doing it is wrong, but it is not as safe.  

I wouldn't say that I am clumsy, but as a human I do make mistakes.  Can you honestly guarantee me that the hammer will NEVER slip out of your fingers while performing this fine motor skill?  I can't for myself, so I choose not to train myself to do it that way.  

For pete's sake,  I grew up shooting old style SA revolvers without the crappy transfer bar safety,   never once had a problem putting the hammer down on a loaded chamber,  even as a 5 year old.

Just creating food for thought, not trying to flame anyone.  I'm sure you have been shooting for years just like all of us here.  10 bucks says if you ask any of the professional trainers if they would teach the method of carry you suggest, you would get 10 different answers.  some may agree with you.  I, personally, do not.  That's what makes America so fucking great, eh?

For those of you who don't already know, I suggest you ignore mcnielsen's ignorance based fear and try the full capabilities of the -75 for yourself (unloaded at first of course), then you decide what's safe and what's not.  

Quoted: For those of you who don't already know, I suggest you ignore mcnielsen's ignorance based fear and try the full capabilities of the -75 for yourself (unloaded at first of course), then you decide what's safe and what's not.

I've been doing it off and on for a couple of days now. I actually think it's a little easier to do it one handed, to be honest with you. There's one thing we all seem to be missing in this discussion:

Why in God's name would you lower the hammer anyway? It's perfectly safe cocked and locked. If you need to unload it, just...well...unload it. No need to lower the hamer. Why would you intentionally lower the hammer on a chambered -75? I'm sure there's a good reason, but I'm drawing a blank.

Many people prefer a DA intital trigger for a safer carry.  The double action trigger is a safe, one step method of carry.  This is what SIGs and Berrettas as well as H&Ks and Rugers are all about, and we're likely to see it in the new military pistol as well.  DA/SA has it's place.  I prefer it for a shoulder rig for vehicle use.  I prefer cocked and locked for most carry situations.  

Don't turn this into a Da vs. cocked and locked debate.  You can find that elsewhere.  

The beauty of the -75 is that you can go DA/SA or cocked and locked without adding more (potentially confusing) thumb controls.  It's like two pistols in one.  I applaud CZ for having the balls to continue to put this out.  I don't like ignorant a$$holes who call it unsafe.  Just like the ignorant a$$hole who call all firearms unsafe.  

I and everyone who competes in USPSA Production drop the hammer on the -75 'cause it's in the rules to compete against other DA/SAs.  

Quoted: I don't like ignorant a$$holes who call it unsafe.  Just like the ignorant a$$hole who call all firearms unsafe.

No need to Troll me, dude.  I think you are mis reading my posts.  I did not say the CZ or all firearms are unsafe.  I am a firearms instructor and a stickler for all the rules of gun safety including the one that says don't pull the trigger unless you are on target.  I already said to each his own. Why must you insist that there is only ONE WAY of carrying this pistol, YOUR WAY?  

SubnetMask, you have a fine looking pistol and I know it will perform as nicely as the CZ-75b that I own (whether you carry it cocked and locked or hammer down/DA).  

Sorry your thread was hijacked!

mcnielsen:  I don't carry a CZ.  I stated that already.  I carry 1911s cocked and locked usually.  Sometimes I carried a SIG DA/SA.  You're confusing the issue again.  I did not advocate any particular style of carry as you infer.  I meerly mentioned that the hammer is commonly and frequently lowered on CZ-75s without incedent all the time and that way a whole other mode of operation can be utilized which was cleverly designed into the gun.  Your suprise at this indicates that you are unfamiliar with the issue.  I too was initially afraid of the concept untill I'd read enough of the many respectable shooters (including current champions) who commonly do this in USPSA competitions, and that it's completely understood and accepted (as safe) by the USPSA.  Then I did it myself, and now consider the practice only slightly more risky than general gun handling itself.  

I admit I did mis read your post.  I thought you said "...dropping the hammer is unsafe."
I see what you said was "...is not as safe.".  Which is likely true, but is nevertheless meaningless since no one has any statistics on how many NDs have occured due to "hammer slipping" while lowering the hammmer of a -75, if any have ever occured at all.  My guess would be that it's almost non-existant.  

Now go fourth and play with your hammers!

OK.   I'm an a$$hole.  But it's fun.  

Quoted: Now go fourth and play with your hammers! OK.   I'm an a$$hole.  But it's fun.

+1

 me too!

Great!  Then it's Miller time!

Now can we get to more important topics, like which round to better use on the undead?

Bah, Mcnielson's just being an anal-retentive nit. He's repeating the same retarded argument against a perfectly legitimate and centuries-old practice for no apparent reason.

But it's okay. We still like him.

Quoted:  My way is safe 100%.  I do not ever need to put my finger on the trigger until I am ready to shoot.

Point is,  on certain types of guns,  you do HAVE to decock sans decocker.   Are revolvers suddently unsafe?  Cause you certainly have no choice if you ever wish to decock one.  

It is just fine and dandy to carry a CZ cocked and locked,   I preferred that way myself.   Like another poster mentioned,   all those shooting organizations like USPSA and IDPA must be out of their collective minds since you have to shoot a CZ starting in DA for some classes.  


Oh yea,  sorry for hijacking your thread Subnet. Well,  not really.   I swear I still have another CZ mag around here.  I'll see if I can't find it this week when I clean the basement.

Quoted: But it's okay. We still like him.

Yeee-Haaw!!

Quoted: Bah, Mcnielson's just being an anal-retentive nit. He's repeating the same retarded argument against a perfectly legitimate and centuries-old practice for no apparent reason. But it's okay. We still like him.

At least he's not from M*ch*g*n.