Churh denies autistic boy communion - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Churh denies autistic boy communion (Page 2 of 3)

Posted: 3/4/2006 6:01:46 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My understanding is that if you can't take communion, you can't confess, and therefore cannot be absolved.

BS
1st: Id bet that half of those kids dont even knw what communion means.
2nd: Communion is to remind you of what Christ did for us. Thus the "Do this in rememberence of me part" not to get us to heaven.

1st - that's an arrogant statement, based on a hunch.
2nd - you are correct this is not a condition of salvation, it's done in remembrance of the lord, what organization has the right to prevent someone from partaking in it?

Ill give you that. I will admit but.....When 8 of my cousins started taking comunion we all went out for bruch after their mass. There was about 17 of the "new ones" there so I asked them what does it mean to take comunion. Everyone of the gave me this stupid look and gave me a I dont know answer. Whats the point in taking communion if you dont even know what it means. I know you probly dont care what I believe but I'm gonna tell ya anyway. In my church you go through 4 years of training/classes before you get in front of the whole congragation and confess what you believe.

Posted: 3/4/2006 6:04:15 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

2nd - you are correct this is not a condition of salvation, it's done in remembrance of the lord, what organization has the right to prevent someone from partaking in it?

The purpose of the sacrament of communion is the CONSUMPTION of the consecrated host. This child is not consuming the host, his father is. If the boy can not complete the sacrament then he should not receive it. It is interesting to me how many of the same folks who are ranting against the Catholic Church in this thread normally shower disdain on issues like "social advancement" of students to a higher grade if they aren't prepared and other issues where action is taken to make somebody "feel good" about their experience if they aren't capable of completely performing a task.

I feel bad for the autistic boy, but he is not executing the sacrament.

The story does not say if the Church typically offers communion in both species (conserated host and consecrated water/wine). It if does, the boy could take communion in that species

Posted: 3/4/2006 6:04:58 PM EDT

[#3]

The "good" Bishop has sadly forgotton anything he SHOULD have learned as a Catholic.

Something about "suffer the children to come unto me"
Something about "what you do to the least, you also do to me.

Mary should give him a swift kick in his shriveled balls when he passes away.

Posted: 3/4/2006 6:09:52 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My understanding is that if you can't take communion, you can't confess, and therefore cannot be absolved.

BS
1st: Id bet that half of those kids dont even knw what communion means.
2nd: Communion is to remind you of what Christ did for us. Thus the "Do this in rememberence of me part" not to get us to heaven.

1st - that's an arrogant statement, based on a hunch.
2nd - you are correct this is not a condition of salvation, it's done in remembrance of the lord, what organization has the right to prevent someone from partaking in it?

Ill give you that. I will admit but.....When 8 of my cousins started taking comunion we all went out for bruch after their mass. There was about 17 of the "new ones" there so I asked them what does it mean to take comunion. Everyone of the gave me this stupid look and gave me a I dont know answer. Whats the point in taking communion if you dont even know what it means. I know you probly dont care what I believe but I'm gonna tell ya anyway. In my church you go through 4 years of training/classes before you get in front of the whole congragation and confess what you believe.

And if you don't recieve the 4 years of "training/classes" and a profession before your congregation are you unworthy of salvation?

Posted: 3/4/2006 6:12:06 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:

And if you don't recieve the 4 years of "training/classes" and a profession before your congregation are you unworthy of salvation?

I don't see where he posted that. Don't you think that it is probably a good idea to comprehend a ritual that you are going to take part in?

Posted: 3/4/2006 6:14:42 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
Quoted:

And if you don't recieve the 4 years of "training/classes" and a profession before your congregation are you unworthy of salvation?

I don't see where he posted that. Don't you think that it is probably a good idea to comprehend a ritual that you are going to take part in?

My guess is he don't...

Posted: 3/4/2006 6:18:19 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:
Quoted:

And if you don't recieve the 4 years of "training/classes" and a profession before your congregation are you unworthy of salvation?

I don't see where he posted that. Don't you think that it is probably a good idea to comprehend a ritual that you are going to take part in?

Where does the lord say that we need to perform a ritual for salvation?

Posted: 3/4/2006 6:21:31 PM EDT

[#8]

Quoted:

Ill give you that. I will admit but.....When 8 of my cousins started taking comunion we all went out for bruch after their mass. There was about 17 of the "new ones" there so I asked them what does it mean to take comunion. Everyone of the gave me this stupid look and gave me a I dont know answer. Whats the point in taking communion if you dont even know what it means. * * *

What's the point in eating spinach if you can't explain why it's good for you? You don't know as much about Communion as you think you do.

Posted: 3/4/2006 6:22:06 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

And if you don't recieve the 4 years of "training/classes" and a profession before your congregation are you unworthy of salvation?

I don't see where he posted that. Don't you think that it is probably a good idea to comprehend a ritual that you are going to take part in?

Where does the lord say that we need to perform a ritual for salvation?

Why don't you tell me. I never posted any such thing

I do know that the Lord (and note that I capitalize it) did say "Do this in rememberance of me". That is why the ritual exists. Please go try to put words in someone elses mouth.

Posted: 3/4/2006 6:27:23 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
Quoted:

And if you don't recieve the 4 years of "training/classes" and a profession before your congregation are you unworthy of salvation?

I don't see where he posted that. Don't you think that it is probably a good idea to comprehend a ritual that you are going to take part in?

Thats right, I never said that. Sorry if you got that impression. We dont believe that you have to take communion to get to heaven. You have to believe that Jesus lived a holy life, died for our sins and that he rose. I only meant that recieve a "knowledge" (I lack of a better word) before we are able to take communion. I am not saying that YOU have to take 4 years of classes, that is only what our synod "requires".

Posted: 3/4/2006 6:30:01 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
Quoted:

Ill give you that. I will admit but.....When 8 of my cousins started taking comunion we all went out for bruch after their mass. There was about 17 of the "new ones" there so I asked them what does it mean to take comunion. Everyone of the gave me this stupid look and gave me a I dont know answer. Whats the point in taking communion if you dont even know what it means. * * *

What's the point in eating spinach if you can't explain why it's good for you? You don't know as much about Communion as you think you do.

Well thats why I dont eat spinach. How may parts of the bible does your synod change/remove/add?

Please tell me what you believe about communion.

Posted: 3/4/2006 6:49:41 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:
Quoted:
What's the point in eating spinach if you can't explain why it's good for you? You don't know as much about Communion as you think you do.

Well thats why I dont eat spinach. How may parts of the bible does your synod change/remove/add?

Please tell me what you believe about communion.

In the post to which I responded, you asked "Whats the point in taking communion if you dont even know what it means {?}" By that question, you suggested that Communion is some sort of intellectual exercise; that understanding the Sacrament is a precondition to meaningfully participating in it. That is just plain wrong. Few if any people (today or ever) could be said to have a genuine understanding of the Sacrament. Wise men have debated and argued for centuries over the precise meaning of the Sacrament. Unless you are a genius of rare power or have received an astounding gift from the Holy Spirit, you (like me and everybody else) understand Communion only imperfectly at best. I believe it is fundamentally a mystery. Jesus said ~ "This is my body . . . this is my blood. . . given for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins. . . do this in remembrance of me." This is what my church teaches about it:

The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another; but rather it is a Sacrament of our Redemption by Christ's death: insomuch that to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith, receive the same, the Bread which we break is a partaking of the Body of Christ; and likewise the Cup of Blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ.

Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions .

The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper, is Faith.

The Sacrament of the Lord's Supper was not by Christ's ordinance reserved, carried about, lifted up, or worshipped.

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:02:43 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What's the point in eating spinach if you can't explain why it's good for you? You don't know as much about Communion as you think you do.

Well thats why I dont eat spinach. How may parts of the bible does your synod change/remove/add?

Please tell me what you believe about communion.

In the post to which I responded, you asked "Whats the point in taking communion if you dont even know what it means {?}" By that question, you suggested that Communion is some sort of intellectual exercise; that understanding the Sacrament is a precondition to meaningfully participating in it. That is just plain wrong. Few if any people (today or ever) could be said to have a genuine understanding of the Sacrament. Wise men have debated and argued for centuries over the precise meaning of the Sacrament. Unless you are a genius of rare power or have received an astounding gift from the Holy Spirit, you (like me and everybody else) understand Communion only imperfectly at best. I believe it is fundamentally a mystery. Jesus said ~ "This is my body . . . this is my blood. . . given for you and for many for the forgiveness of sins. . . do this in remembrance of me." This is what my church teaches about it:

The Supper of the Lord is not only a sign of the love that Christians ought to have among themselves one to another; but rather it is a Sacrament of our Redemption by Christ's death: insomuch that to such as rightly, worthily, and with faith, receive the same, the Bread which we break is a partaking of the Body of Christ; and likewise the Cup of Blessing is a partaking of the Blood of Christ.

Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ; but is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture, overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions .

The Body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten, in the Supper, only after an heavenly and spiritual manner. And the mean whereby the Body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper, is Faith.

The Sacrament of the Lord's Supper was not by Christ's ordinance reserved, carried about, lifted up, or worshipped.

Sorry, thats not what I meant. I am saying that in my synod we take class to have a "basic knowledge" (again I lack for better wording) of what we are doing. I know that we cannot understand how the bread is the body and the wine is the blood because we are all to dumb to know. The same goes for the Triune God.

I simply meant that we take classes to know that it is a reminder and so when someone asks us why we take communion we dont stand there with a stupid look on our face and give a IDK answer.

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:04:03 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:

Ill give you that. I will admit but.....When 8 of my cousins started taking comunion we all went out for bruch after their mass. There was about 17 of the "new ones" there so I asked them what does it mean to take comunion. Everyone of the gave me this stupid look and gave me a I dont know answer. Whats the point in taking communion if you dont even know what it means. * * *

What's the point in eating spinach if you can't explain why it's good for you? You don't know as much about Communion as you think you do.

Well thats why I dont eat spinach. How may parts of the bible does your synod change/remove/add?

Please tell me what you believe about communion.

The thread is based on the topic of communion and the catholic churches position that an individual cannot partake in communion because they are of a particular mental disposition. My position is that no organization has the right to say that an individual is "worthy/unworthy" of taking communion. In my opinion, any organization that says that you need to do such and such in order to take communion is legalistic and inconsistant with scripture. Question why?

Russian you posted the following:
I know you probly dont care what I believe but I'm gonna tell ya anyway. In my church you go through 4 years of training/classes before you get in front of the whole congragation and confess what you believe.

That's all well and good but do you need to go through 4 years of training to be saved? That's the basis of my question. Personally, It's not the training or the ritual you perform, its what you believe in your hart that matters to the lord. I can go through years of siminary, wax poetic about this and that, perform a hundered rituals, and still not believe that jesus is the christ.

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:08:51 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
My understanding is that if you can't take communion, you can't confess, and therefore cannot be absolved.

BS
1st: Id bet that half of those kids dont even knw what communion means.
2nd: Communion is to remind you of what Christ did for us. Thus the "Do this in rememberence of me part" not to get us to heaven.

1st - that's an arrogant statement, based on a hunch.
2nd - you are correct this is not a condition of salvation, it's done in remembrance of the lord, what organization has the right to prevent someone from partaking in it?

1st - Having been involved in religious education, I can tell you that his hunch is correct in many, many parishes. When I took over the position of director of youth formation for our parish, I looked at the materials that were used to teach the kids about communion. They were sorely lacking in information about communion. There was plenty of wishy-washy feel good stuff, but practically nothing about the Eucharist and what communion was about. The kids actually didn't know what communion meant if the only religious ed they got was our program. By the time I left, that had changed.

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:13:09 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

The thread is based on the topic of communion and the catholic churches position that an individual cannot partake in communion because they are of a particular mental disposition. My position is that no organization has the right to say that an individual is "worthy/unworthy" of taking communion. In my opinion, any organization that says that you need to do such and such in order to take communion is legalistic and inconsistant with scripture. Question why?

Please post the quote where any member of the Catholic Church stated that this individual was not "worthy" of partaking in communion.

That is a misrepresentation bordering on being a lie.

What the Church is saying is that the boy if the boy is not capable of executing the ritual, than he should not execute the ritual.

He could still come forward and receive a blessing, or if that diocese offers communion in both species he could consume from a chalice. Oops - just read that he will not consume the consecrated wine either. In any case, he could still go forward and receive a blessing.

Seeking to avoid making some feel left out is not a valid reason to allow that person to improperly participate in the most significant act of worship in the Catholic Church. If you disagree, don't join. But then I doubt that's an issue for you.

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:13:17 PM EDT

[#17]

Thats right. You could believe for a split second and die the othe half of that second and I believe that you would be saved. And the part of the ritual, I dont believe that you have to take part in it. It is a reminder. By taking part I think you will have less of a chance of falling away though. It is what you belive in your heart is what matters right again. It doesnt say anywhere in the bible that you have to go to church, be baptized or take part in communion to be saved but to belive that Jesus lived holy, died for our sins and rose. Do those who take part in these have a better better chance of not falling away? (provided that they do it for the right reasons and not b/c they are forced/have to)

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:16:49 PM EDT

[#18]

It appears they are more interested in the ritual itself than the meaning behind it.

It seems to me their greatest concern should be that the boy understands the history and beliefs behind the ritual. I'm not sure that’s possible for an autistic person.

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:18:20 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Silly catholics with their silly gimmicks. I'd like to see Martin Luther punch that bishop out.

You do realize that Luther was flat out nuts?

"Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong."
Be a sinner and sin strongly, but more strongly have faith and rejoice in Christ. ML

"it is more important to guard against doing good works than against sin."
ML was getting the truth out on how one enters heaven. The CC, at the time, basically said money and good works. ML translated the Bible from Latin to German and other languages to show that grace was the only way. And that grace is given only from God. Grace cannot be earned or bought. DS

"[Man] has no free-will."
The will is a beast of burden. If God mounts it, it wishes and goes as God wills; if Satan mounts it, it wishes and goes as Satan wills; Nor can it choose its rider... the riders contend for its possession. ML

For our struggle is not against enemies of blood and flesh, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers of this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places. -- Ephesians 6:12

"God is the author of what is evil."

"Like the mules who will not move unless you perpetually whip them with rods, so the civil powers must drive the common people, whip, choke, hang, burn, behead and torture them, that they may learn to fear the powers that be."

Jews are young devils damned to hell. Burn their synagogues. Forbid them all that I have mentioned above. Force them to work and treat them with every kind of severity, as Moses did in the desert and slew three thousand... If that is no use, we must drive them away like mad dogs, in order that we may not be partakers of their abominable blasphemy and of all their vices, and in order that we may not deserve the anger of God and be damned with them. I have done my duty. Let everyone see how he does his. I am excused."

Martin Luther

BWWHHAAAAHAHAHAAAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAAHAAAHHHAAAAHAAA

Bullshit, BellHop.

Martin Luther was a far cry from insanity. The quotes are accurate in and of themselves. But, you do not give the meat fore... or the potatoes aft of each qoute. Even God can be seen as evil in just one or a few sentences... quite easily in the OT.

The 6th is one that I have read and even knew the context in which it was given. Sadly, after thirty some years I will have to do my best to find the full meaning, again.

Dave S

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:20:01 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
It appears they are more interested in the ritual itself than the meaning behind it.

It seems to me their greatest concern should be that the boy understands the history and beliefs behind the ritual. I'm not sure that’s possible for an autistic person.

Although some autistic individuals may not have extensive social capabillities, there are a lot that have average to above-average intelligence. Don't quote me on this though.

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:28:38 PM EDT

[#21]

He also could take the wine as his communion.

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:37:12 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:
He also could take the wine as his communion.

I don't think RCs do it that way. I thought the priest intercedes for the people on the wine consumption.

Dave S

Lutherans receive both.

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:39:02 PM EDT

[#23]

Quoted:
Quoted:
He also could take the wine as his communion.

I don't think RCs do it that way. I thought the priest intercedes for the people on the wine consumption.

Dave S

Depends on the diocese. Mine (in SE VA) offers communion in both species. My parents (NW PA) offers only the host.

In any case, the article states that the boy will consume neither the host nor the wine.

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:46:20 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
IBTL,

I can hear the ~~Catholic~~ Christian haters stampeding to toward this thread.

ETA I thought we had a forum for this type of stuff?

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:48:38 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
He also could take the wine as his communion.

I don't think RCs do it that way. I thought the priest intercedes for the people on the wine consumption.

Dave S

Depends on the diocese. Mine (in SE VA) offers communion in both species. My parents (NW PA) offers only the host.

In any case, the article states that the boy will consume neither the host nor the wine.

Roger That.

I have no Saint in this fight... but if I did and the boy passed Confirmation... his host would have been seaped with Manichevitz Blackberry... by me.

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:49:06 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Quoted:
It appears they are more interested in the ritual itself than the meaning behind it.

It seems to me their greatest concern should be that the boy understands the history and beliefs behind the ritual. I'm not sure that’s possible for an autistic person.

Although some autistic individuals may not have extensive social capabillities, there are a lot that have average to above-average intelligence. Don't quote me on this though.

You may be right -- I don't know for sure.

The only way to find out is to ask, and autistic people are not known for their interpersonal skills.

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:49:45 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
Quoted:

The thread is based on the topic of communion and the catholic churches position that an individual cannot partake in communion because they are of a particular mental disposition. My position is that no organization has the right to say that an individual is "worthy/unworthy" of taking communion. In my opinion, any organization that says that you need to do such and such in order to take communion is legalistic and inconsistant with scripture. Question why?

Please post the quote where any member of the Catholic Church stated that this individual was not "worthy" of partaking in communion.

That is a misrepresentation bordering on being a lie.

What the Church is saying is that the boy if the boy is not capable of executing the ritual, than he should not execute the ritual.

He could still come forward and receive a blessing, or if that diocese offers communion in both species he could consume from a chalice. Oops - just read that he will not consume the consecrated wine either. In any case, he could still go forward and receive a blessing.

Seeking to avoid making some feel left out is not a valid reason to allow that person to improperly participate in the most significant act of worship in the Catholic Church. If you disagree, don't join. But then I doubt that's an issue for you.

there's the key difference in our point of view " improperly participate". Who defines that? Can I not take communion when dining with my family. Is it "unlawful" for me to break bread, call upon the name of the lord with my family or friends? Can I not reference the communion when breaking bread? No church has the right to determine this.

Posted: 3/4/2006 7:49:53 PM EDT

[#28]

and they will not turn away John Kerry or teddy boy?

Posted: 3/4/2006 8:07:02 PM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It appears they are more interested in the ritual itself than the meaning behind it.

It seems to me their greatest concern should be that the boy understands the history and beliefs behind the ritual. I'm not sure that’s possible for an autistic person.

Although some autistic individuals may not have extensive social capabillities, there are a lot that have average to above-average intelligence. Don't quote me on this though.

You may be right -- I don't know for sure.

The only way to find out is to ask, and autistic people are not known for their interpersonal skills.

Boy that's witty, even clever. Poke fun, lump into categories, judge someones hart if you dare. That's the real problem here, you can't judge what's going on in the hart. You don't know, you can never know. Shame on you for you Hasty characterization.

Posted: 3/4/2006 8:10:14 PM EDT

[#30]

Last time I checked, it was called "Freedom of Religion". You know, worshipping as you see fit. You may very well be wrong and have to answer for it for an eternity, but in America, we do have freedom of religion. I am not Roman Catholic, so I really don't care what they do. My theology differs on what the Lord' Supper is/means/does. But I sure think they have every right to accept/deny whom they please, according to their beliefs, knowing full well they will have to answer for their decisions and actions someday.

I do give them credit for sticking to their guns on most issues and the RC Church isn't a democracy, even though a heck of a lot of American RC's think it should be.

If you don't like it and think they are wrong or acting in sin, go somewhere else and worship.

Posted: 3/4/2006 8:11:31 PM EDT

[#31]

I'm sorry but isnt heart spelled heart? Ive been reading it spelled hart a lot. Not trying to correct anyone but you guys are starting to confuse me.

Posted: 3/4/2006 8:13:35 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Last time I checked, it was called "Freedom of Religion". You know, worshipping as you see fit. You may very well be wrong and have to answer for it for an eternity, but in America, we do have freedom of religion. I am not Roman Catholic, so I really don't care what they do. My theology differs on what the Lord' Supper is/means/does. But I sure think they have every right to accept/deny whom they please, according to their beliefs, knowing full well they will have to answer for their decisions and actions someday.

I do give them credit for sticking to their guns on most issues and the RC Church isn't a democracy, even though a heck of a lot of American RC's think it should be.

If you don't like it and think they are wrong or acting in sin, go somewhere else and worship.

+1 I agree

Posted: 3/4/2006 8:20:48 PM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Last time I checked, it was called "Freedom of Religion". You know, worshipping as you see fit. You may very well be wrong and have to answer for it for an eternity, but in America, we do have freedom of religion. I am not Roman Catholic, so I really don't care what they do. My theology differs on what the Lord' Supper is/means/does. But I sure think they have every right to accept/deny whom they please, according to their beliefs, knowing full well they will have to answer for their decisions and actions someday.

I do give them credit for sticking to their guns on most issues and the RC Church isn't a democracy, even though a heck of a lot of American RC's think it should be.

If you don't like it and think they are wrong or acting in sin, go somewhere else and worship.

If the shtf tomorrow, and you were not able to go to a church for the next 5 years, would you be unable to take communion? Would you be unable to break bread in rememberance of the lord? Answer the question in your hart.

Here's my bottom line, no church, or individual stands between me and my relationship to christ. I've reconized that I'm a sinner, I've called upon the name of the lord for salvation, I've accepted the free gift of salvation, I recognize that there is no act that I can perform to earn salvation.

Posted: 3/4/2006 8:25:48 PM EDT

[#34]

As many will tell you in and out of the catholic church... it has been the church of man, not the church of GOD, for a long time. It has been astray for the better part of a thousand years now.

Posted: 3/4/2006 8:26:35 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:
I'm sorry but isnt heart spelled heart? Ive been reading it spelled hart a lot. Not trying to correct anyone but you guys are starting to confuse me.

Trite and trivial - is that really necessary

Posted: 3/4/2006 8:27:27 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:
and they will not turn away John Kerry or teddy boy?

Some clarification is needed. They are not denying the kid communion, nor are they turning him away.

In order to receive communion, you put consecrated bread in your mouth and eat it and/or you put consecrated wine in your mouth and drink it.

For reasons beyond his control, this kid can neither eat the bread nor drink the wine. Apparently, wine is out of the question. What he does with bread is hold it in his mouth awhile, then take it out and give it to his dad. The bishop (who is the person who makes such decisions) decided that (1) holding the host in your mouth without eating in it is no more "receiving" the Sacrament than slipping the host into your sock or watch pocket would be; and (2) it is inappropriate to give somebody a wafer so that he can hold it in his mouth without eating it.

The bishop is certainly right on #1. That just isn't "receiving," and wishing won't make it so.

As to #2, the RCC has dealt with the same underlying issue before (i.e., doing some act in imitation of receipt of the Sacrament) in the context of wheat/gluten allergies. IIRC, the consensus aof the scholars, priests, & bishops was that if it is or contains anything other than wheat flour & water, it can't be a host; eating it isn't receiving communion; and the RCC doesn't do "mock" Eucharists. That seems to be the bishop's conclusion in the case at hand: holding a wafer in your mouth and then giving it to someone else is "pretend Communion," and the Eucharist is far too important and far too holy to use it as a means of making people "feel better," as a policeman might by letting a kid wear his badge while he interviews the kid's parents.

Posted: 3/4/2006 8:37:01 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:
Quoted:
and they will not turn away John Kerry or teddy boy?

Some clarification is needed. They are not denying the kid communion, nor are they turning him away.

In order to receive communion, you put consecrated bread in your mouth and eat it and/or you put consecrated wine in your mouth and drink it.

For reasons beyond his control, this kid can neither eat the bread nor drink the wine. Apparently, wine is out of the question. What he does with bread is hold it in his mouth awhile, then take it out and give it to his dad. The bishop (who is the person who makes such decisions) decided that (1) holding the host in your mouth without eating in it is no more "receiving" the Sacrament than slipping the host into your sock or watch pocket would be; and (2) it is inappropriate to give somebody a wafer so that he can hold it in his mouth without eating it.

The bishop is certainly right on #1. That just isn't "receiving," and wishing won't make it so.

As to #2, the RCC has dealt with the same underlying issue before (i.e., doing some act in imitation of receipt of the Sacrament) in the context of wheat/gluten allergies. IIRC, the consensus aof the scholars, priests, & bishops was that if it is or contains anything other than wheat flour & water, it can't be a host; eating it isn't receiving communion; and the RCC doesn't do "mock" Eucharists. That seems to be the bishop's conclusion in the case at hand: holding a wafer in your mouth and then giving it to someone else is "pretend Communion," and the Eucharist is far too important and far too holy to use it as a means of making people "feel better," as a policeman might by letting a kid wear his badge while he interviews the kid's parents.

Ok, I was just in a car accident, I know most of you are sad to hear it, and my brain was damaged. I can no longer swallow correctly. And yet, I retain enough function to know in my "heart" that I love the lord an rely on him for salvation. I want to participate in communion, but because I can't "properly" swallow the host I'm being denied that option.

Who makes the determination, who determines intent, to properly determine intent you have to judge the heart - you can't do that in this case.

edited for Russian approval, improper spelling of hart - deduct 10 points.

Posted: 3/4/2006 8:48:26 PM EDT

[#38]

I see the normal double standard is still at work... I guess it is open season to denigrate Catholics... but for God sake don't mention any thing derogatory about the Muslim faith.

Posted: 3/4/2006 8:50:43 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:
I see the normal double standard is still at work... I guess it is open season to denigrate Catholics... but for God sake don't mention any thing derogatory about the Muslim faith.

+100 there babe - bam

Beekeeper open big can whoop ass then

Posted: 3/4/2006 8:58:37 PM EDT

[#40]

Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
and the problem with that is?

Jeebuz H man, the boy is being denied the ability and his right to consumate his religious belief by his own church!

Jeebuz H man the boy is autistic and most likey does not have a clue what is going on... the church has its traditions if you don't like them don't go.

I find this more disturbing, crying because the kid can't take a religious sacrament for a religion that may be forced on him against his own ability to choose one for himself, I see that as something way worse. Religion is something that each person has to choose for themselves

Posted: 3/4/2006 9:06:35 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:
As many will tell you in and out of the catholic church... it has been the church of man, not the church of GOD, for a long time. It has been astray for the better part of a thousand years now.

Dude, you are so wrong it isn't even funny anymore. It's been debated and argued on the Religion Forum ad nauseum, so take your Catholic bashing elsewhere.

Posted: 3/4/2006 9:12:48 PM EDT

[#42]

Grind it up in some saline and inject himm with it. Or, roll it and let him smoke it. All types of ways to consume Jesus.

If the kid doesn't want to eat it, don't feed it to him. God save us from stupid parents...

Posted: 3/4/2006 9:12:58 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:
and they will not turn away John Kerry or teddy boy?

If I were a priest, I would have unless they publicly repented of their dissention and went to Confession. And it depends on where they travelled whether or not they would have been denied Holy Communion. Denver, Colorado Springs, Lincoln, St. Louis, Phoenix and other places basically said "don't bother trying."

The simple fact is, the boy is not receiving commuion. He's pretending with his parent's help. The Church has stated that to do so is not receiving communion, no matter how much a person may want it to be, AND the diocese is trying to find something that will work that he will receive without spitting out. Why are so many of you ignoring this fact????

Posted: 3/4/2006 9:40:19 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:
The simple fact is, the boy is not receiving commuion. He's pretending with his parent's help. The Church has stated that to do so is not receiving communion, no matter how much a person may want it to be, AND the diocese is trying to find something that will work that he will receive without spitting out. Why are so many of you ignoring this fact????

Bingo.

Posted: 3/4/2006 9:48:45 PM EDT

[#45]

I'm a devout Catholic. I go to confession frequently, attend Mass every Sunday morning, etc. My daughter even goes to Catholic school.

I've been on a lot of different forums when some issue regarding the Catholic Church comes up. Invariably, it's some sort of troll post designed to get a reaction. The worst offenders are usually some form of Protestant. They never seem to miss a chance to "protest" against the Catholic Church. It's almost always misinformed or intentionally offensive.

Interestingly enough, I find that most Catholics are generally polite and understanding of how the various Protestant churches choose to do their thing. Personally, I don't get the whole Protestant thing. But I don't feel the need to rebel or lash out against them.

So, in closing: Go drink your paper cup grape juice, eat your sourdough chunks, and leave us Catholics alone!

Posted: 3/5/2006 5:16:07 AM EDT

[#46]

Quoted:
i really don't see a problem.

if catholic doctrine states it must be done a certain way and only that way, then so be it.

IMHO if the lord was inclined to deny someone entrance to heaven because of a physical inability to participate in a man made ceremony, i am inclined to think that's not a heaven i'd want to be in.

That there is a great example of individual religious thinking versus "organized religion" thinking.

besides, didn't South Park already cover this with retards and confession in the church?

IBTL

and since this ain't the Religion forum all I have to say is this:

and God spoke down from the mountain and said.... Eat Me or go to Hell!

course if the poor kid choked on a wafer and died...he'd be with Jesus...so then I guess everything would be just fine.

No Expert

Posted: 3/5/2006 5:29:16 AM EDT

[#47]

Hart is also another word for stag.

It is good to know this when playing Scrabble and you don't have an E tile.

Posted: 3/5/2006 5:32:09 AM EDT

[#48]

Quoted:
I see the normal double standard is still at work... I guess it is open season to denigrate Catholics... but for God sake don't mention any thing derogatory about the Muslim faith.

sorry but i don't agree with you here. yes there are a few very borderline posts but in general this has been a fairly good discussion of this situation. Instead of complaining about bashing that isn't here, how about you refute points you disagree with.

Religion is a personal topic to everyone, no 2 people will ever agree on it. If it can't stand up to criticism on it's own merit what good is it? Sorry but i don't see much bashing here. Just criticism from many that don't understand the practice. The same thread and comments would be applied had this thread been about baptists/mormons/amish/buddhists or any other faith.

Stop being a victim.

mike

Posted: 3/5/2006 5:57:36 AM EDT

[#49]

Quoted:
You can't eat it you can't have it. Would you feed mecuray to someone. Well maybe thats why this kid is like this but thats off the point. Why don't they bring a blender to church and add some water and make him a shake?

Seems like the diocese is working within guidelines to find something acceptable to use as a host for him.

Diocese officials said they are doing their best to accommodate Matthew's needs, including hosts that are thinner than the norm, thicker, even smaller. Moran says none of the hosts has worked. Matthew will not swallow even a tiny crumb of the host or a drop of wine with any regularity, frequently spitting them out, he said.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm suspicious of all these 'issues' cropping up in the news with developmentally disabled people.

Posted: 3/5/2006 8:01:30 AM EDT

[#50]

Quoted:
I'm a devout Catholic. I go to confession frequently, attend Mass every Sunday morning, etc. My daughter even goes to Catholic school.

I've been on a lot of different forums when some issue regarding the Catholic Church comes up. Invariably, it's some sort of troll post designed to get a reaction. The worst offenders are usually some form of Protestant. They never seem to miss a chance to "protest" against the Catholic Church. It's almost always misinformed or intentionally offensive.

Interestingly enough, I find that most Catholics are generally polite and understanding of how the various Protestant churches choose to do their thing. Personally, I don't get the whole Protestant thing. But I don't feel the need to rebel or lash out against them.

So, in closing: Go drink your paper cup grape juice, eat your sourdough chunks, and leave us Catholics alone!

Unfortunately there are a significant percentage of Protestant churches that make petty hate, ignorant bigotry, and meddling stupidity part of their creed. They talk Jesus but don’t really have any idea. Not all but a significant percentage

I have seen good Protestants filled with the love of Jesus (just ask them) throw rocks at Catholic children while their mother cheered them on. They will tell you all about Jesus with bible in one hand rock and hood in the other. My Grandfather carried a pistol his entire life because of love filled Protestants and their recreational habits.

It is really none of their business… but they got to stick their hateful hate filled noses in where they don’t belong anyway.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Churh denies autistic boy communion (Page 2 of 3)

General » General Discussion

Warning

Confirm Action

About AR15.COM

Stay Connected

Newsletter

Contact Us