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Posted: 3/3/2006 1:34:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 2:32:34 PM EDT by RustedAce]
Finally got a day off and got out to the range to play with my toys. Had 2 sheets of kevlar I found in the trash when I was in Iraq, decided to shoot them up.

I know your supposed to use clay to messure the dent to see how far it would enter a person, I didnt have clay, so I used dirt.

Somewhat like the box o truth, except without nearly as much effort. Old Painless does a much better job at this, if you want real results look at his stuff, this was more for my amusement.

I stood back 7 yards from this:


Rounds I used:


Guns I used:


9mm hollow point went through front of first sheet, didnt go through back of it.


Here is the bullet


9mm FMJ, went through front of first sheet, didnt go through back, couldnt get the bullet out


Buckshot, went through front of first sheet, didnt go through back


Buckshot on surface


5.45 went through both.


Backed up to 250 yards, shot green tip at it from a 14.5 1-9 barrel. 4 shots, all went through both.


It worked just like I expected it too, stopped handgun/shotgun, didnt do anything for rifles.

ETA:
At the request of Red_Beard I folded the kevlar so it was 8 sheets. I stood back 15 yards this time


Rounds


Guns


Shot the 5.45 at 8 sheets first, went right through all of them.


Folded it up so there were 12


5.56 went right through all 12, the two unmarked holes are front and back


Figured I dragged the .308 out of the safe, might as well shoot it, through all 12.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:36:45 PM EDT
Nice!
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:38:35 PM EDT
cool
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:38:41 PM EDT
Seems as though the armor was still good to me.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:40:03 PM EDT
Very cool.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:40:47 PM EDT
thanks for the info.

stay safe
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:41:20 PM EDT
Buckshoot!
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:43:19 PM EDT
is that one of those SEAK II rifles from ORF...Im suprised you were able to get it to function beyond 4 shots....the one I had was a frickin Jam-o-matic....damn saftey rode UP every 4 rounds....unreal. Glad yours apprears to be in working order...
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:43:19 PM EDT
Awesome post...thanks for the pics. Stuff looks like it would work on handgun rounds especially ones fired from a distance. Nice collection of toys as well
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:45:19 PM EDT
Nice post!
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:47:32 PM EDT
Holy Crap where am I?

A post on ARFCOM that has to do with guns?!

Cool post RustedAce!
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:52:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By NME:
Buckshoot!



yeah yeah, fixed
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:54:14 PM EDT
Very cool Ace, thanks for taking the time.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:56:23 PM EDT
Nothing's more fun than basic research that involves destroying stuff. Thanks for posting!

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:59:05 PM EDT
It'd be interesting to fold them over to create four or 8 layers and see how many the rifles can get through.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 1:59:17 PM EDT
Nice shotgun

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 2:00:30 PM EDT
Nice job, RustedAce.

Shooting stuff is fun, ain't it.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 2:00:37 PM EDT
What kind of vehicle is that?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 2:01:07 PM EDT
[O_P] Shooting stuff is fun [/O_P]

Cool pics...
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 2:02:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It'd be interesting to fold them over to create four or 8 layers and see how many the rifles can get through.



Good Idea, going to do it, NOW
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 2:33:23 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
Nice job, RustedAce.

Shooting stuff is fun, ain't it.



Sure is, too bad it just turned dark on me. I have been shooting since 10 am haha.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 2:35:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It'd be interesting to fold them over to create four or 8 layers and see how many the rifles can get through.



Good Idea, going to do it, NOW



Cool.

I'm kind of surprised they went through 12 layers of the stuff.

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 2:42:56 PM EDT
Well he did say it was questionable material.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 2:51:41 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:

Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Originally Posted By Red_Beard:
It'd be interesting to fold them over to create four or 8 layers and see how many the rifles can get through.



Good Idea, going to do it, NOW



Cool.

I'm kind of surprised they went through 12 layers of the stuff.




Now I want to know how many it takes, too bad I am all out.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 2:54:54 PM EDT
Aren't most vests made of at least 24 layers?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 3:05:34 PM EDT

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Aren't most vests made of at least 24 layers?



These came out of a vest, marked "vehicle crewman" it had two in front two in back.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 4:23:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cold:
is that one of those SEAK II rifles from ORF...Im suprised you were able to get it to function beyond 4 shots....the one I had was a frickin Jam-o-matic....damn saftey rode UP every 4 rounds....unreal. Glad yours apprears to be in working order...



Nah, its a WaCo arms build. Works great. Sucks to hear about the SEAKs. Sure it wasnt the mags? 3 out of 7 of my mags dont work worth a shit, but the other 4 run perfect.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 6:30:06 AM EDT

Originally Posted By IBTLplus1:
What kind of vehicle is that?



a Rhino, I forget who makes it.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:47:18 PM EDT
up because its neat
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 7:59:39 PM EDT
good stuff. thanks for the update
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:18:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Aren't most vests made of at least 24 layers?



These came out of a vest, marked "vehicle crewman" it had two in front two in back.



Hey Rusted, great info. However, the vest you shot is what Abrams and Bradley crewmembers wear called an "anti-spalling vest" it isnt a "bulletproof vest".

It's meant to stop fragments in the sheer instance that a vehicle gets hit by an anti tank round and all the hot particles that are associated with it impacting and then penetrating the armor of the vehicle into the turret.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:22:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By bull_8:

Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Aren't most vests made of at least 24 layers?



These came out of a vest, marked "vehicle crewman" it had two in front two in back.



Hey Rusted, great info. However, the vest you shot is what Abrams and Bradley crewmembers wear called an "anti-spalling vest" it isnt a "bulletproof vest".

It's meant to stop fragments in the sheer instance that a vehicle gets hit by an anti tank round and all the hot particles that are associated with it impacting and then penetrating the armor of the vehicle into the turret.



Cool, thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 8:40:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Originally Posted By bull_8:

Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Aren't most vests made of at least 24 layers?



These came out of a vest, marked "vehicle crewman" it had two in front two in back.



Hey Rusted, great info. However, the vest you shot is what Abrams and Bradley crewmembers wear called an "anti-spalling vest" it isnt a "bulletproof vest".

It's meant to stop fragments in the sheer instance that a vehicle gets hit by an anti tank round and all the hot particles that are associated with it impacting and then penetrating the armor of the vehicle into the turret.



Cool, thanks for the info.



Anytime, FYI, I hated having to wear the damn things when I would do gunnery with the Abrams during the summer, it was worse than wearing a regular LEO kevlar vest.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:22:01 PM EDT
You know i think (though i could be wrong) that in order to properly test Kevlar you have to put an Energy absorbing backstop that simulates the human body. That how the physics of the Vests work. You gotta use ballistic gellatin or clay or soap or rubber cause say if you tacked it to a tree or a wooden board the bullet would most likely go through because the kevalar needs to strech and redirect the energy to the human body albeit in a much more spread out pattern. Once the energy is absorbed the bullet loses all it's penetrating power. Like a net catching a soccar ball. That why even if the bullet does'nt penetrate you could still get bruises and broken ribs.
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 11:32:25 PM EDT
Thanks for the range report
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 12:26:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2006 12:26:50 AM EDT by METT-T]

Originally Posted By MagKnightX:
Aren't most vests made of at least 24 layers?



Yeah, IIRC most Level III vests are about 24-26 layers. Any 5.56 round will zip right thru one, front and back, for a total penetration of ~50 layers.

If you're going to stop rifle rounds, you need plates. End of story. In fact, in my entirely inexpert opinion, it seems like you're better off without a soft armor vest on if you're going to get shot with a rifle round. The only thing it's going to do is possibly deform the bullet, decreasing your chances of a through-and-through wound. Of course, that opinion might make zero sense to those who know of what they speak.

thanks for the pics, RustedAce.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 7:49:48 AM EDT

Originally Posted By t-stox:
You know i think (though i could be wrong) that in order to properly test Kevlar you have to put an Energy absorbing backstop that simulates the human body. That how the physics of the Vests work. You gotta use ballistic gellatin or clay or soap or rubber cause say if you tacked it to a tree or a wooden board the bullet would most likely go through because the kevalar needs to strech and redirect the energy to the human body albeit in a much more spread out pattern. Once the energy is absorbed the bullet loses all it's penetrating power. Like a net catching a soccar ball. That why even if the bullet does'nt penetrate you could still get bruises and broken ribs.



As I stated in the origonal post I didnt have any clay or anything like that, so I just used soft dirt.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:00:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Originally Posted By NME:
Buckshoot!



yeah yeah, fixed



You should have left it like that!!!

That's what I call it now!



Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:15:03 AM EDT
I would love to play with material like that.

Would like to see how FN 5.7 pistol ammo does, as well as 7.62x39.

Link Posted: 3/12/2006 8:26:50 AM EDT
Kevlar looks like the inserts for the OD crew frag vest. Surprised they even stop pistol ammo.
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 10:04:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By RustedAce:

Originally Posted By t-stox:
You know i think (though i could be wrong) that in order to properly test Kevlar you have to put an Energy absorbing backstop that simulates the human body. That how the physics of the Vests work. You gotta use ballistic gellatin or clay or soap or rubber cause say if you tacked it to a tree or a wooden board the bullet would most likely go through because the kevalar needs to strech and redirect the energy to the human body albeit in a much more spread out pattern. Once the energy is absorbed the bullet loses all it's penetrating power. Like a net catching a soccar ball. That why even if the bullet does'nt penetrate you could still get bruises and broken ribs.



As I stated in the origonal post I didnt have any clay or anything like that, so I just used soft dirt.



Heres an idea, just go to the market and a crap load of jello! Then use like an aquarium or somthing really big to create a big blob of jello (i say use cherry) Then after wards you can eat it!
Just remember that if any of the bullets penetrate the vest you'll have to pull them out of the jello!
mmmmmmmmmmmmm cherry jello and wolf powder....guuuugleguuuuurrrrgggglee
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 10:24:04 AM EDT
Thanks for a great post. Bob
Link Posted: 3/12/2006 10:30:34 AM EDT
In the words of the great Old Painless....

Handguns are handguns, and rifles are rifles. Totally different league.

Great post and good pics thanks for sharing!

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