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Posted: 3/3/2006 8:41:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 8:41:52 AM EDT by red65]
Another Ar15er posted up this article by a Brit on guns in the USA.

To me it seems like a glowing tribute to the power of the NRA.

I have read countless articles by liberals weeping over the mighty power of the NRA. Yet many non-member gun owners pretend the NRA is not doing much.

I've never read any liberal refer to any gun group other than the NRA.

LIBERAL HATE THE NRA. WHY NOT JOIN?

I just there were more mainstream groups they hated so I could join them.

Look what we can already do with 4 million NRA members. What if we had 8 million?

Come on, join!! A year's membership costs less than 4 beers at that titty bar you always hang out at.

Licence to kill - life under the gun in the US
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/global/main.jhtml?xml=/global/2006/03/01/expat0301.xml&sSheet=/portal/2006/03/03/ixportal.html
By Jarek Garlinski
(Filed: 01/03/2006) thats 3/1/06 for us Yanks

We live in the heart of American gun country. A local farmhouse I have visited near here has a gun rack that would not disgrace a decent infantry battalion's guard room.

The gun lobby is well organized. The National Rifle Association (NRA), with no more than four million members in a nation of around 275 million, and theoretically a sporting club for gun enthusiasts, is immensely political and wields extensive influence.

A visit to the NRA web site is instructive, if one wants to understand the so-called "cultural wars" between the liberals and the conservatives in this country. The web site contains in essence three principal messages:

• The Second Amendment to the US Constitution unequivocally permits American citizens to bear arms;

• Attempts to limit gun ownership are a socialist, if not communist, assault on American freedoms;

• Citizens are safer in a country without gun control, since they can defend themselves against armed criminals.

Thus it is clear that the NRA aligns itself with the social conservatives who view with alarm what they believe to be a liberal attempt to tear America away from its traditions.

They believe in a literal reading of the American Constitution, they feel that the judiciary has become too liberal and they tend to regard the outside world, especially the United Nations Organisation, with a high degree of hostility.

Be that as it may, the NRA wants to dispel the notion that the typical gun owner is a paranoid working-class white man of the kind depicted by Tennessee Williams and Arthur Miller. However, I have to say that all the hard-line gun owners I have personally encountered in my 19 years here did in fact match the stereotype and I found them to be quite impervious to any kind of rational argument.


Indeed it was the NRA's chief lobbyist, Christopher Cox, who let the cat out of the bag saying "We are a safer country today because Congress passed this critical legislation and acted to save American icons like Remington, Ruger, Winchester and Smith & Wesson from politically motivated lawsuits."

He added: "Our men and women in uniform abroad and at home now will not have to rely on France, China or Germany to supply their firearms." In other words, it's all really about business and the American gun manufacturing industry.

Last year when the ten-year ban on the sale of assault rifles was quietly allowed to expire, you could hear the gun manufacturers licking their lips.

It is unlikely though that there will be any major changes here soon, since although many Americans do not themselves own weapons and do not subscribe to the NRA's beliefs, enough people are in some way convinced that owning guns is the "American way".

Nevertheless, it would be wrong, I believe, to dismiss out of hand the gun lobby's belief in self-defence.

To be sure, the NRA's loud support for firearms in a country whose murder rate, which, although dropping, is extremely high (16,503 murders in 2003, of which 67 per cent were committed with guns) seems somewhat out of place.

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:43:53 AM EDT
Liberals hate the NRA, WalMart, Regan, and guns.

Little wonder I support them all
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:47:21 AM EDT
<--------------- Joined for the first time right after Katrina. Better late than never.

I'll be sticking around.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 8:53:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 8:53:49 AM EDT by SayUncle]
I reward their behavior and never get a lifetime membership. When the AWB expired, I joined a year. When they endorsed george 'i will sign the AWB if congress sends it to me' bush for president, I did not renew. If they get on this sporting purpose stuff, I may join again. I'm not guaranteed and my membership must be earned.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:22:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SayUncle:
I reward their behavior and never get a lifetime membership. When the AWB expired, I joined a year. When they endorsed george 'i will sign the AWB if congress sends it to me' bush for president, I did not renew. If they get on this sporting purpose stuff, I may join again. I'm not guaranteed and my membership must be earned.




Sigh.............
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:24:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By amendment:

Originally Posted By SayUncle:
I reward their behavior and never get a lifetime membership. When the AWB expired, I joined a year. When they endorsed george 'i will sign the AWB if congress sends it to me' bush for president, I did not renew. If they get on this sporting purpose stuff, I may join again. I'm not guaranteed and my membership must be earned.




Sigh.............



Swear to god.......

We're our own worst enemies.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:27:46 AM EDT
Just got my new card yesterday. Someday, when I can hold on to a few bucks, I'll get a life membership.

667
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:28:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SayUncle:
I reward their behavior and never get a lifetime membership. When the AWB expired, I joined a year. When they endorsed george 'i will sign the AWB if congress sends it to me' bush for president, I did not renew. If they get on this sporting purpose stuff, I may join again. I'm not guaranteed and my membership must be earned.



And I suppose the reason you're not a member of AR15.com is becuase it let you down in some way too?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:31:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 9:33:05 AM EDT by SayUncle]

We're our own worst enemies.


I concur but from a different view point, I'm sure.

ETA: it's one thing to poo poo the other guy as worse. But an endorsement of a questionable candidate is going too far.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:33:34 AM EDT
I just joined for the first time a couple of months ago. I decided that I needed to "put my money where my mouth was".
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:37:18 AM EDT
I joined after the state legislature attempted to enact an "assault weapons ban" in WA. Before that, I thought the 2nd amendment was safe and that there was no need to join the NRA -- I was wrong on both counts.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:39:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SayUncle:

We're our own worst enemies.


I concur but from a different view point, I'm sure.

ETA: it's one thing to poo poo the other guy as worse. But an endorsement of a questionable candidate is going too far.



When the Brady folks come get your guns, keep repeating what you just said to yourself.

I'm glad the NRA didn't throw my money away on a candidate with no shot at winning.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:43:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 9:45:11 AM EDT by dread-pirate]

Originally Posted By SayUncle:
I reward their behavior and never get a lifetime membership. When the AWB expired, I joined a year. When they endorsed george 'i will sign the AWB if congress sends it to me' bush for president, I did not renew. If they get on this sporting purpose stuff, I may join again. I'm not guaranteed and my membership must be earned.



I am the same way. In the last year they have done an AWESOME job so I joined. I will renew as long as they continue to support the the "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" part of the Bill of Rights. Sometimes they compromise with liberals too much.

But of late they have done great! I will continue to support them as long as they continue to support me, and I don't give a damn about hunting or any other sporting purpose. I like GOA and JPFO more and hope that the NRA will lean more that way. When they send me surveys and request money I inform them EXACTLY why I am a member and the contitions on which that membership is maintained.

I don't know how much good it does, but the more they hear the Bill of Rights issues from theur members and the less sporting uses they hear maybe they will change more. That is my hope.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:43:57 AM EDT

When the Brady folks come get your guns, keep repeating what you just said to yourself.


They won't. But note to NRA apologists: When they come for your hunting gun, I can't help you because it means they already got my battle rifle.


I'm glad the NRA didn't throw my money away on a candidate with no shot at winning.


The NRA never endorsed a president until reagan. The should have just sat it out and ran ads against kerry. A tacit endorsement was too much.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:46:54 AM EDT
Patron member

Will one day have to get the daughter (and the soon to be son) a life membership. If I do it now, I'll just get more magazines she can't read yet, but would be good material for a local school.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:47:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SayUncle:
I reward their behavior and never get a lifetime membership. When the AWB expired, I joined a year. When they endorsed george 'i will sign the AWB if congress sends it to me' bush for president, I did not renew. If they get on this sporting purpose stuff, I may join again. I'm not guaranteed and my membership must be earned.



I agree

I pay year by year
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:48:58 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SayUncle:

When the Brady folks come get your guns, keep repeating what you just said to yourself.


They won't. But note to NRA apologists: When they come for your hunting gun, I can't help you because it means they already got my battle rifle.


I'm glad the NRA didn't throw my money away on a candidate with no shot at winning.


The NRA never endorsed a president until reagan. The should have just sat it out and ran ads against kerry. A tacit endorsement was too much.



You use one single issue to not support the one organization that has done more to defend
your second ammendment rights than anyone else?

That's simply patently ridiculous.

I'm not an NRA appologist. I have nothing to appologize for.

It's not the NRA that is an enemy of battle rifles.

It's the dummy hunters that think that way and won't be convinced otherwise.

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:59:15 AM EDT

You use one single issue to not support the one organization that has done more to defend
your second ammendment rights than anyone else?



Not sure where you get it's one single issue. It's the fact (according to some in the know) the NRA was willing to trade the AWB for the gun maker immunity bill. Or that they traded the initial AWB for the NICS. Or the fact every federal gun control law has passed with their approval? And I only listed Bush's endorsement because that was the latest nay vote. The list goes on.

Sure, you may say that without them they could have been worse (and the 1934 NFA would have been without them) but I see them as compromisers. They need to go on the offense. As I said, they have to earn me.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 10:52:15 AM EDT
Current member. It is like $36 a year and they send you a decent magazine, plus you get a window sticker that I know pisses liberals off. It is less than a trip to the range for me.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 11:02:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 11:02:26 AM EDT by Cape_hunter]
NO repeal of the 86 MGB or no membership!!!!!!


J/k!

Although I would buy several life memberships if they got it turned.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 11:06:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:
NO repeal of the 86 MGB or no membership!!!!!!


J/k!

Although I would buy several life memberships if they got it turned.


Several life memberships?! Hell, I'd give 'em my first born!
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 11:09:24 AM EDT
You guys who are already members, THANKS


You guys who are kicking around the idea of joining, Take the plunge, risk the $35. They send you a great magazine.


You guys who despise the NRA, well I can't think of a single thing to say, that attitude is so weird that it leaves me at a loss for words. But Hillary says "Thank You!!"


signed,

Red65, the foolhardy stooge of the evil NRA

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 11:11:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 11:29:16 AM EDT by SayUncle]
For the record, I definitely don't despise them. Their police programs and instructor programs are top notch. However, I vote with my dollars.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 11:48:52 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FooDog:

Originally Posted By SayUncle:
I reward their behavior and never get a lifetime membership. When the AWB expired, I joined a year. When they endorsed george 'i will sign the AWB if congress sends it to me' bush for president, I did not renew. If they get on this sporting purpose stuff, I may join again. I'm not guaranteed and my membership must be earned.



And I suppose the reason you're not a member of AR15.com is becuase it let you down in some way too?



He is a member, look under his name. I guess because I didnt pay $20 im a "non-member" too .
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 11:52:30 AM EDT

And I suppose the reason you're not a member of AR15.com is becuase it let you down in some way too?


Heh. Missed that earlier. Why pay when it's free?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 11:54:51 AM EDT
Proud Benefactor Life member checking in.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 11:55:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By red65:
LIBERAL HATE THE NRA. WHY NOT JOIN?



Because they supported the GCA 68, the NFA34, the AWB, Project Exile, the 86 MG ban, and a host of other gun control laws?

Because they believe the 2nd Amendment is about duck hunting and they sneer at those of us who have rifles other than bolt action deer rifles?

Because they are a gun control organization? Those are my reasons. Take your pick.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:01:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SayUncle:

And I suppose the reason you're not a member of AR15.com is becuase it let you down in some way too?


Heh. Missed that earlier. Why pay when it's free?



Typical 'user' mentality.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:03:57 PM EDT
Easy pay life. After Katrina I decided it didn't need to be yearly decision.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:06:48 PM EDT

Typical 'user' mentality.


Nice rebuttal. Golly gee, I'm convinced. Captain of the debate team?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:07:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By g136653:

Originally Posted By red65:
LIBERAL HATE THE NRA. WHY NOT JOIN?



Because they supported the GCA 68, the NFA34, the AWB, Project Exile, the 86 MG ban, and a host of other gun control laws?

Because they believe the 2nd Amendment is about duck hunting and they sneer at those of us who have rifles other than bolt action deer rifles?

Because they are a gun control organization? Those are my reasons. Take your pick.



Your a very ignorant person...

Why is there no AWB? the NRA

Why does almost every state have CCW? the NRA

Why do we still have any gun rights left at all? the NRA

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:07:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:
NO repeal of the 86 MGB or no membership!!!!!!


J/k!

Although I would buy several life memberships if they got it turned.



For many years I didnt support the NRA after the AWB got signed by Klinton. I felt they
let me and all gun loving Americans down. Near the time of the AWB sunsetting I re-joined the
NRA and sent many letters that said that if they dropped the ball this time that I would definitely
never send my hard earned dollars to them again.

I re-new every year because I take my financial backing seriously and if they do not take the important
issues seriously then I can stop sending my money in.

But let me tell you, if the NRA would repeal the '86 MG ban then I would buy LIFE memberships for ALL
my immediate family members and the only birthday & Xmas gifts I would give to everyone else would
be NRA memberships. I'm not joking !

LB



Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:10:32 PM EDT
Who are you fricking idiots that state you will join the NRA if it does something. They can't lobby effectively without money!

The more members they have the easier it is for them (us) to lobby!

Some you you people have no idea how politics work.

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:12:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By enemy:
Who are you fricking idiots that state you will join the NRA if it does something. They can't lobby effectively without money!

The more members they have the easier it is for them (us) to lobby!

Some you you people have no idea how politics work.




And some people can read a persons opinion without trashing it.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:13:06 PM EDT
For those of you that think $35/yr is too much, use the following link and sign up for $25/yr.

I am a recruiter, instructor, and Benefactor Life member.

Join here, save $10
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:18:30 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Cape_hunter:

Originally Posted By enemy:
Who are you fricking idiots that state you will join the NRA if it does something. They can't lobby effectively without money!

The more members they have the easier it is for them (us) to lobby!

Some you you people have no idea how politics work.




And some people can read a persons opinion without trashing it.




I've reached the point of saturation when it comes to accepting the rather invalid rationale behind some of these opinions.

I'm tired of reasonable discourse or cajoling or appealing to the pecuniary reasoning of some non NRA members.

At the end of the day, any gunowner (espicially those frequenting this site) who is not an NRA member is either cheap, lazy or horribly uninformed.


Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:19:26 PM EDT
When the NRA repeals the 86 machinegun ban we will be in the twilight zone or something. Because in this country it is the congress that has the power to pass laws not the NRA. The NRA can put pressure on congress to get laws passed, and the more members they have the more pressure they can apply. Use your heads folks.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:19:53 PM EDT
Put your money were your mouth is, become a voting member, If you don't like thier policies vote for directors that agree with you. Tom King of NY is one you might like. Either work to fix the problem or STFU.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:22:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BuckeyeRifleman:

Originally Posted By g136653:

Originally Posted By red65:
LIBERAL HATE THE NRA. WHY NOT JOIN?



Because they supported the GCA 68, the NFA34, the AWB, Project Exile, the 86 MG ban, and a host of other gun control laws?

Because they believe the 2nd Amendment is about duck hunting and they sneer at those of us who have rifles other than bolt action deer rifles?

Because they are a gun control organization? Those are my reasons. Take your pick.



Your a very ignorant person...

Why is there no AWB? the NRA

Why does almost every state have CCW? the NRA

Why do we still have any gun rights left at all? the NRA




Yes without the NRA we would have less freedoms than we do now, NO QUESTION.

The problem is that many gun owners feel that they pander to Hunters and 'Sportsmen' (which there is NOTHING wrong with these activities). Hunting and sports are not rights and have no constitutional protections. KEEPING and BEARING ARMS DOES. I joined because of all the positive progress they have made in the last 2 years, which has been phenominal!!!! Way to go NRA.

Send the hunters their magazines and help preserve some hunting areas, fine and dandy, but in this political climate they have to stop pandering to hunters who hate EBR's and focus mainly on the BOR. Now there is no such thing as perfection, and lots of bad things can happen if you hold out for perfection, but I think the NRA is doing more now than in the past to preserve our rights and broaden them.

With every donation I send them and with any survey or other contact I have with them I tell them explicitly WHY I am a member and if they want to me to continue with my membership then they will have to continue the good work they have been doing. If more mebers did this I think we could change the NRA to be more like the GOA and JPFO who I think are great organizations, but do not have the numbers or funds to be as effective as the NRA is and can be.

They (NRA) needs to stay on the offensive. In the last 2 years they went from being deffensive which is a loosing position to offensive. As long as they stay on the offensive I will continue to be a member.

And I urge the non-members who feel the way I do to JOIN NOW, because they ARE on the offensive. Let them know with your $$'s and membership that they are doing a good job and let them know you will join and donate as long as they keep this up. If enough members take this stand we will make the NRA more of the organization that we want it to be. And now is a VERY good time to do it!

We will have much more effect lobbying the NRA than we will the congress critters.

But I'll dump the membership if they start pandering to hunters again. I can't help the hunters if my EBR is taken now can I? Frankly I hope the next proposed ban is on shot guns and bolt action rifles to maybe wake up the damn hunters.

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:25:57 PM EDT
What I can never understand is the disagreement between Hunters or Sportsmen and the people who are just shooting enthusiasts. I really tire of the constant bashing of hunters vs. Non- hunters or competitive paper punchers.

I shoot both paper and stuff for the dinner table and I truly believe that any dissension between people who value their second amendment rights will be the undoing of us all.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:26:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SayUncle:
I reward their behavior and never get a lifetime membership. When the AWB expired, I joined a year. When they endorsed george 'i will sign the AWB if congress sends it to me' bush for president, I did not renew. If they get on this sporting purpose stuff, I may join again. I'm not guaranteed and my membership must be earned.





SSDD.

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:27:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SayUncle:

When the Brady folks come get your guns, keep repeating what you just said to yourself.


They won't. But note to NRA apologists: When they come for your hunting gun, I can't help you because it means they already got my battle rifle.


I'm glad the NRA didn't throw my money away on a candidate with no shot at winning.


The NRA never endorsed a president until reagan. The should have just sat it out and ran ads against kerry. A tacit endorsement was too much.



Hunting gun???????? Damn, you must not realize where you are logged in. Sheesh.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:28:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 1:16:21 PM EDT by LARRYG]

Originally Posted By SayUncle:

You use one single issue to not support the one organization that has done more to defend
your second ammendment rights than anyone else?



Not sure where you get it's one single issue. It's the fact (according to some in the know) the NRA was willing to trade the AWB for the gun maker immunity bill. Or that they traded the initial AWB for the NICS. Or the fact every federal gun control law has passed with their approval? And I only listed Bush's endorsement because that was the latest nay vote. The list goes on.

Sure, you may say that without them they could have been worse (and the 1934 NFA would have been without them) but I see them as compromisers. They need to go on the offense. As I said, they have to earn me.



You really need to educate yourself. Really. That part in blue is more clueless bullshit, or it's the parts that the left would love for us to believe. Divide and conquer. The left would also love for us to believe that GWB wanted the AWB renewed.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:29:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SayUncle:
For the record, I definitely don't despise them. Their police programs and instructor programs are top notch. However, I vote with my dollars.



Damn, you are just full of cliches and uninformed comments, aren't you.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:31:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SayUncle:

And I suppose the reason you're not a member of AR15.com is becuase it let you down in some way too?


Heh. Missed that earlier. Why pay when it's free?



Just like the fight for gun rights that you don't support, yet you "vote with your dollars".

I think this last statement is closer to the truth. Typical.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:35:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sharpknife:
What I can never understand is the disagreement between Hunters or Sportsmen and the people who are just shooting enthusiasts. I really tire of the constant bashing of hunters vs. Non- hunters or competitive paper punchers.

I shoot both paper and stuff for the dinner table and I truly believe that any dissension between people who value their second amendment rights will be the undoing of us all.



You should hear some of the comments made by the Elmer Fudd, hunter-only types at the range regarding the black rifles. That is where the "disagreement" comes from. I have been told by those types that they don't care if the black rifles are banned as long as they leave their hunting rifles alone. A lot of those types voted for Kerry.

If you want to address the problem, start right there.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:36:46 PM EDT
I am joining today. Why do people on this site refuse to give money to the most powerfull voice we have?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:40:18 PM EDT

Damn, you are just full of cliches and uninformed comments, aren't you.


I told you precisely why I do what I do and those are the best rebuttals you got? Gimme a break.


You should hear some of the comments made by the Elmer Fudd, hunter-only types at the range regarding the black rifles. That is where the "disagreement" comes from. I have been told by those types that they don't care if the black rifles are banned as long as they leave their hunting rifles alone. A lot of those types voted for Kerry.


That's kinda what I'm talking about. The NRA has chosen the fudds over me & you.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:46:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SayUncle:

Damn, you are just full of cliches and uninformed comments, aren't you.


I told you precisely why I do what I do and those are the best rebuttals you got? Gimme a break.


You should hear some of the comments made by the Elmer Fudd, hunter-only types at the range regarding the black rifles. That is where the "disagreement" comes from. I have been told by those types that they don't care if the black rifles are banned as long as they leave their hunting rifles alone. A lot of those types voted for Kerry.


That's kinda what I'm talking about. The NRA has chosen the fudds over me & you.



It doesn't take much to rebuke bullshit. You regurgitate old worn out shit, so there really isn't anything to rebuke.

NRA has not chosen Fudds over us. You need to get up to speed.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:49:50 PM EDT
<--------------------
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:53:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SayUncle:

You use one single issue to not support the one organization that has done more to defend
your second ammendment rights than anyone else?



Not sure where you get it's one single issue. It's the fact (according to some in the know) the NRA was willing to trade the AWB for the gun maker immunity bill. Or that they traded the initial AWB for the NICS. Or the fact every federal gun control law has passed with their approval? And I only listed Bush's endorsement because that was the latest nay vote. The list goes on.

Sure, you may say that without them they could have been worse (and the 1934 NFA would have been without them) but I see them as compromisers. They need to go on the offense. As I said, they have to earn me.



+1

The NRA always seems to be bargining for some rights and giving up on others. They should be fighting everything anti-gun, and fighting to get current laws repealed. They still seem like they are working more for bolt action rifles, and not my "handheld weapons of mass destruction".
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