Court allows Sikh knife in school
From correspondents in Ottawa
March 03, 2006
www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,18334128%255E1702,00.html
CANADA'S Supreme Court gave the green light today for the kirpan, a small knife that has religious significance to Sikhs, to be carried in public schools.

It overruled a 2004 Quebec appeals court decision barring the kirpan, which the high court said was a blow to freedom of religion.

The case began in 2001 when 12-year-old Gurbaj Multani allowed the kirpan knife to be seen outside his school in Montreal. School rules forbid students from carrying weapons.

"The council of commissioners' decision prohibiting G from wearing his kirpan to school infringes his freedom of religion," terms of the ruling said.

And "the interference with G's freedom of religion is neither trivial nor insignificant, as it has deprived him of his right to attend a public school".

"Lastly, the argument that the wearing of kirpans should be prohibited because the kirpan is a symbol of violence and because it sends the message that using force is necessary to assert rights and resolve conflict is not only contradicted by the evidence regarding the symbolic nature of the kirpan, but is also disrespectful to believers in the Sikh religion and does not take into account Canadian values based on multiculturalism," it said.

"Religious tolerance is a very important value of Canadian society," the ruling said.

"If some students consider it unfair that G may wear his kirpan to school while they are not allowed to have knives in their possession, it is incumbent on the schools to discharge their obligation to instil in their students this value that is at the very foundation of our democracy," it said.

"A total prohibition against wearing a kirpan to school undermines the value of this religious symbol and sends students the message that some religious practices do not merit the same protection as others."

Time to become a Sikh then.

Thats some funky "stuff", eh?

theyre ruining us....

IBTL

Sikhism is a cool religion.  Not because of the knives, just in general.

Someone really needs to start some sort of NON CHRISTIAN church were you must possess and worship firearms ( mainly military firearms)
the NFA GCA68 and 86 all violate our religious beliefs therefore they do not apply to us


can't be christian or it will get burnt down

Multi-cultural of course, Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, ARs

Quoted: Multi-cultural of course, Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, ARs

Heretic.

Quoted: Multi-cultural of course, Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, ARs

shit even Hi Points  must not turn away the poor  would be "instert new relgion name here" like

Who/what do you think prompted the Sikhs to require their men to carry a weapon?

Quoted: Quoted: Multi-cultural of course, Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, ARs Heretic.

I'm forming a splinter church.  1911's only.  

Funny thing is, if you keep your knife put away and don't show it to anyone, no one will know!

Funny how that works.

Of course, I would NEVER have a knife in school!

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Multi-cultural of course, Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, ARs Heretic. I'm forming a splinter church.  1911's only.

Figures

my church is the church of self defense.  my religiously significant object is a Beretta 92.  I need to carry it at all times or risk offending my god.  I will sue if my religious needs are not obliged.


Who wants to convert to my faith?

Taxes are against my religion.

Quoted: x402.putfile.com/3/6100071830.jpg

I am converting to the Church of the Beagle.  All members of the Beaglist religion must wear firearms to protect the world from squirrels and those that would do harm to the great cheese-producing state of Wisconsin, the beef-producing states of Texas and Nebraska, and the chicken and turkey producing state of Arkansas.  You must tithe at least 5% of your cheese to Betsey, the Beagle, and kill offending squirrels on sight.

Bow to your new and cute god.

Quoted: x402.putfile.com/3/6100071830.jpg

Exactly.....
My lord Browning, I pray that you watch over me with your 5 safeties.  I swear to follow all 1911 commandments and to protect and to serve myself, my family, my community and my nation.  I will follow the 45 tenets of the Auto Cartridge Pistol in doing so.  May you bring Johns bounty to your followers and may your enemies die to hydrashock.


Sorry, sorta on the fly kinda stuff, but definitely the right idea.

ETA:  When I was in school, most of the guys had buck 110's either in a holster on their belt, or in the back pocket.  We would play mumbly peg between classes and use them to cut up apples to munch during class.  No problem.  No-one ever got stabbed in a fight or shot or......  (one guy did get a knife in the foot, but just pulled it out and kept on going)

1. It's in Canada.

2. It is legitimately characterized as an ancient tradition (been around for centuries at least).

3. I seem to recall reading about "restricted area" Sikh knives for such situations, with the blade riveted inside the scabbard.

Does seem like a "sauce for the goose" situation. If the Sikh boy's need to symbolically affirm his willingness to kill or die to protect his religion trumps the rules, my boy's need to affirm his willingness to protect himself and open heavy envelopes should do likewise.

Quoted: 1. It's in Canada. 2. It is legitimately characterized as an ancient tradition (been around for centuries at least). 3. I seem to recall reading about "restricted area" Sikh knives for such situations, with the blade riveted inside the scabbard. Does seem like a "sauce for the goose" situation. If the Sikh boy's need to symbolically affirm his willingness to kill or die to protect his religion trumps the rules, my boy's need to affirm his willingness to protect himself and open heavy envelopes should do likewise.

So we should be able to bring our handguns to school, then.. It'll be unloaded.. You know, just for the significance of it.

Praise the Lord and pass the Ammunition.

Quoted: Quoted: 1. It's in Canada. 2. It is legitimately characterized as an ancient tradition (been around for centuries at least). 3. I seem to recall reading about "restricted area" Sikh knives for such situations, with the blade riveted inside the scabbard. Does seem like a "sauce for the goose" situation. If the Sikh boy's need to symbolically affirm his willingness to kill or die to protect his religion trumps the rules, my boy's need to affirm his willingness to protect himself and open heavy envelopes should do likewise. So we should be able to bring our handguns to school, then.. It'll be unloaded.. You know, just for the significance of it.

I can carry in schools in Oregon...

If that happened when I was in school Id have beat him up and took his silly knife.

Sikhs are badasses.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for them.

Those Kirpans are purely decorative, and as dull as  butter knife.

I don't have a problem with it.

Quoted: Those Kirpans are purely decorative, and as dull as  butter knife. I don't have a problem with it.

Yeah, they are mainly symbolic.  It's the fact that their religion allowed them to carry weapons, but other people can not.  

Sikh-ening.  

Don't the Sikh's hate moslums?   If so, then It's OK for them to carry a blade.


Now, all I gotta do is find a religion that requires carry of a .45        



    My kids will be going to school soon.  

Quoted: ...because it sends the message that using force is necessary to assert rights and resolve conflict...

That isn't a "message", that is a fundamental human truth.  Ultimately, the use of force (or the willingness) is the only thing standing between you and absolute slavery, and it is also the only thing standing between society and destructive anarchy.

Someone, somewhere, must be willing to put the smack down.

p.s.--Note to self:  must look for any historical religious significance to my ancestors use of the Skean Dhu.

Quoted: Don't the Sikh's hate moslums?   If so, then It's OK for them to carry a blade.

Worst insult I could ever think of for a Sihk would be when a they were being assaulted (and I think one guy was even shot & killed) by idiots who thought they were Muslims shortly after 9/11.

I've always wondered if the red jewel the women put on their forehead is permanently embedded or if it just has a sticky backside to it.  Anybody know the story on that?

In my grandfather's day and in my father's day kids brought knives and guns to school all the time.

That was, of course, before PC took over and every kid turned into a potential murderer...

If this is "progress", I want no part of it.

Let the sikh kid bring his knife to school. But let Billy bring his Buck 110 and cased 20 guage so he can squirrel hunt on the way home from school.

does Canada even *have* an ammended "freedom of religion" somewhere?

Quoted: Who/what do you think prompted the Sikhs to require their men to carry a weapon?

Ouu, ouu, I know!  

Quoted: p.s.--Note to self:  must look for any historical religious significance to my ancestors use of the Skean Dhu.

It's got no religious significance AFAIR mate, but it would be repressing your minority heritage to not allow you to carry it. A friend had them for his wedding when all the male members of his family wore the Baxter Tartan, and he's about as scots as my arse.

Being a Welshman of course that means I get a longbow, it's only fair

/PHIl

Quoted: x402.putfile.com/3/6100071830.jpg

[Larry the Cable Guy]That's funny, I don't care who you are[Larry the Cable Guy]

(and I'm a Mormon).

                     Well then because of my Russian, German, Scottish, Norwegian background I can, wear a kilt, carry an AK,  and scream derogatory statements uncontrollably in German, and finally get to wear those wooden shoes?

the uniform policy can kiss my ass

I wonder if a Japanese student would be allowed to carry a katana?

Those jewels have adhesive behind them, FYI.

That's a strange ruling.  Think of the children.

I'm part Scottish, wife is part Scottish, I wonder if our kids could get away with a Kilt and a Sgian Dubh?

Quoted: x402.putfile.com/3/6100071830.jpg

Woo hoo! My Photochop is popular.

Quoted: Quoted: 1. It's in Canada. 2. It is legitimately characterized as an ancient tradition (been around for centuries at least). 3. I seem to recall reading about "restricted area" Sikh knives for such situations, with the blade riveted inside the scabbard. Does seem like a "sauce for the goose" situation. If the Sikh boy's need to symbolically affirm his willingness to kill or die to protect his religion trumps the rules, my boy's need to affirm his willingness to protect himself and open heavy envelopes should do likewise. So we should be able to bring our handguns to school, then.. It'll be unloaded.. You know, just for the significance of it.

Yeah, but even de-milled they would be pretty scary and useful.

Quoted: Those Kirpans are purely decorative, and as dull as  butter knife. I don't have a problem with it.

I've heard of more than one account of an elementary school child being suspended for bringing one of those chintzy "Wisconsin Cheeseman" type butter knives to lunch.

Public education............. aw, I'm not going to waste bandwidth.

Next case: Palestinian exchange students who want to wear green headbands and bomb belts to school.  

Quoted:                      Well then because of my Russian, German, Scottish, Norwegian background I can, wear a kilt, carry an AK,  and scream derogatory statements uncontrollably in German, and finally get to wear those wooden shoes? the uniform policy can kiss my ass

Now that's funny!  I would actually like to see that.  MJD

Quoted: 1. It's in Canada. 2. It is legitimately characterized as an ancient tradition (been around for centuries at least). 3. I seem to recall reading about "restricted area" Sikh knives for such situations, with the blade riveted inside the scabbard. Does seem like a "sauce for the goose" situation. If the Sikh boy's need to symbolically affirm his willingness to kill or die to protect his religion trumps the rules, my boy's need to affirm his willingness to protect himself and open heavy envelopes should do likewise.

Interestingly, this has happened in NY last year.  Same knife, 15 y/o Sikh in high school.

link to article

Press Release
16 March 2005 3 Chayt (Samvat 537 Nanakshahi)

UNITED SIKHS Helps New York Sikh Student Regain Right to Wear his Kirpan to School
Westchester County, New York—Despite 15 year old Amandeep Singh's exemplary academic and disciplinary records, he was suspended from his New York state Greenburgh Central School last month when the Kirpan he has been wearing to school for 7 years was deemed to be an offensive weapon by his school authorities.


Photograph. Amandeep Singh—“I thank God for the strength to stand up for my convictions and I thank UNITED SIKHS for being there for me” The school Principal determined at an initial hearing that Amandeep's kirpan, an element of Sikh religious expression, was a "weapon" and had suspended him after a hearing.

The UNITED SIKHS advocacy team led by New York lawyer Gurpatwant Singh, intervened with the assistance of lawyers from the Becket Fund. Yesterday, Amandeep received a letter from School Superintendent Josephine Moffett expunging his record of the suspension and allowing him to wear his kirpan at school. Gurpatwant Singh said, "We recognize that the school has upheld the First Amendment and we admire the stance taken by the school."

Amandeep Singh's family had sought help from the Sikh community last month and UNITED SIKHS responded on Feb 7th by submitting a written representation to the Principal's Office on the Sikh Articles of Faith. The Principal's attention was drawn to Amandeep's right to practise his religion under the First Amendment and a copy of the Sikh Rehat Maryada, code of conduct was submitted in support. The UNITED SIKHS letter addressed to the Principal can be seen at:
http://www.unitedsikhs.org/rtt/Letter_to_school.pdf

Gurpatwant Singh worked with the Becket Fund to represent Amandeep Singh at a second hearing on Feb16. The Becket Fund, an international, interfaith, public-interest law firm that protects the free expression of all religious traditions, was represented by its director of litigation, Derek Gaubatz.

Amandeep Singh says, "UNITED SIKHS helped me to get out of this situation. We Couldn't have done it without them. "They were the first to respond to my plea," says Amandeep whose message to fellow Sikh students is, "Stand up for your rights and Sikhi because there are always people out there to help you".

Amandeep became initiated as an Amritdhari Sikh at the age of eight, which necessitated him to wear the Kirpan, one of the five articles of faith. For over seven years, Amandeep attended local public schools and continuously observed all the five articles of his faith, including the wearing of the Kirpan, without any incident. Many of his teachers and fellow-students were aware of his Kirpan and according to Amandeep, "Every time anyone asked me about the Kirpan I would explain what it meant to me and they went away in admiration of my dedication to my faith." No one ever told Amandeep that his kirpan was a danger to anyone until one day last month due to information received by a school security guard, Amandeep was asked to explain to a school disclipinary hearing why he wore the Kirpan to school.

"We commend Amandeep Singh for being brave enough to stand up for his First Ammendment rights which would not only benefit him but also other Kirpan wearing Sikhs in school. We are very proud of his parents, Nirmal Singh and Manjit Kaur who supported him for his right to wear the Kirpan," said Manwinder Singh, UNITED SIKHS director.

"From the beginning we knew that a school had a balancing act to play when deciding between Amandeep's rights and the school's concern for safety. We commend the school for the consideration it showed to the facts presented to them by our Team," said Gurpatwant Singh, UNITED SIKHS' lawyer.

"The school's initial approach of suspending Amandeep until he stopped wearing the kirpan would effectively ban all baptized Sikhs from attending New York public schools," observed Becket Fund Director of Litigation Derek L. Gaubatz. "Such a ban would have been especially unfortunate because schools do allow students to handle numerous items much more dangerous than a kirpan such as scissors, mathematical compasses, screwdrivers, and baseball bats. Moreover, a recent Canadian study revealed that there has never been a single reported incident of kirpan related violence in any North American school."

During the hearing on Feb 16th Amandeep agreed to wear a smaller kirpan of two inches in length that would be securely fastened under his clothes in a cloth pouch. He also agreed to allow pre-arranged inspections by school officials to confirm his adherence to the conditions. The school agreed to expunge Amandeep's record of the suspension and, to ensure that no disciplinary action remains on his record. Yesterday, Superintendent Josephine Moffett gave her final approval to the agreement. The school letter agreeing to allow Amandeep Singh to wear his Kirpan can be seen at:
http://www.unitedsikhs.org/rtt/Letter_from_school.pdf

PR Issued by:
Manwinder Singh
Director
UNITED SIKHS
[email protected]

Quoted: does Canada even *have* an ammended "freedom of religion" somewhere?

They have had a written equivalent of our bill of rights since 1982.

Quoted: Quoted: does Canada even *have* an ammended "freedom of religion" somewhere? They have had a written equivalent of our bill of rights since 1982.

Does that include the RKBA?

Quoted: That's a strange ruling.  Think of the children.

That was mentioned in the article, the kids must be "taught" about.......well I confess, I found the rational a little "unclear"

"If some students consider it unfair that G may wear his kirpan to school while they are not allowed to have knives in their possession, it is incumbent on the schools to discharge their obligation to instil in their students this value that is at the very foundation of our democracy," it said.