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Posted: 3/2/2006 8:53:49 PM EDT
Court allows Sikh knife in school
From correspondents in Ottawa
March 03, 2006
www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,18334128%255E1702,00.html
CANADA'S Supreme Court gave the green light today for the kirpan, a small knife that has religious significance to Sikhs, to be carried in public schools.

It overruled a 2004 Quebec appeals court decision barring the kirpan, which the high court said was a blow to freedom of religion.

The case began in 2001 when 12-year-old Gurbaj Multani allowed the kirpan knife to be seen outside his school in Montreal. School rules forbid students from carrying weapons.

"The council of commissioners' decision prohibiting G from wearing his kirpan to school infringes his freedom of religion," terms of the ruling said.

And "the interference with G's freedom of religion is neither trivial nor insignificant, as it has deprived him of his right to attend a public school".

"Lastly, the argument that the wearing of kirpans should be prohibited because the kirpan is a symbol of violence and because it sends the message that using force is necessary to assert rights and resolve conflict is not only contradicted by the evidence regarding the symbolic nature of the kirpan, but is also disrespectful to believers in the Sikh religion and does not take into account Canadian values based on multiculturalism," it said.

"Religious tolerance is a very important value of Canadian society," the ruling said.

"If some students consider it unfair that G may wear his kirpan to school while they are not allowed to have knives in their possession, it is incumbent on the schools to discharge their obligation to instil in their students this value that is at the very foundation of our democracy," it said.

"A total prohibition against wearing a kirpan to school undermines the value of this religious symbol and sends students the message that some religious practices do not merit the same protection as others."
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:54:53 PM EDT
Time to become a Sikh then.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:56:11 PM EDT
Thats some funky "stuff", eh?
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:57:21 PM EDT
theyre ruining us....

IBTL
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:57:22 PM EDT
Sikhism is a cool religion. Not because of the knives, just in general.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:57:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 8:58:44 PM EDT by www-glock19-com]
Someone really needs to start some sort of NON CHRISTIAN church were you must possess and worship firearms ( mainly military firearms)
the NFA GCA68 and 86 all violate our religious beliefs therefore they do not apply to us


can't be christian or it will get burnt down
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:59:37 PM EDT
Multi-cultural of course, Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, ARs
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:00:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Multi-cultural of course, Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, ARs



Heretic.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:01:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 9:01:47 PM EDT by www-glock19-com]

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Multi-cultural of course, Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, ARs



shit even Hi Points must not turn away the poor would be "instert new relgion name here" like
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:01:59 PM EDT
Who/what do you think prompted the Sikhs to require their men to carry a weapon?
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:02:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By RyJones:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Multi-cultural of course, Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, ARs



Heretic.



I'm forming a splinter church. 1911's only.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:04:31 PM EDT
Funny thing is, if you keep your knife put away and don't show it to anyone, no one will know!

Funny how that works.

Of course, I would NEVER have a knife in school!
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:04:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By happycynic:

Originally Posted By RyJones:

Originally Posted By 22bad:
Multi-cultural of course, Glocks, Sigs, Berettas, ARs



Heretic.



I'm forming a splinter church. 1911's only.



Figures
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:05:22 PM EDT
my church is the church of self defense. my religiously significant object is a Beretta 92. I need to carry it at all times or risk offending my god. I will sue if my religious needs are not obliged.


Who wants to convert to my faith?
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:07:12 PM EDT
Taxes are against my religion.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:07:57 PM EDT


Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:15:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 9:22:50 PM EDT by MoparMike]

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
x402.putfile.com/3/6100071830.jpg







I am converting to the Church of the Beagle. All members of the Beaglist religion must wear firearms to protect the world from squirrels and those that would do harm to the great cheese-producing state of Wisconsin, the beef-producing states of Texas and Nebraska, and the chicken and turkey producing state of Arkansas. You must tithe at least 5% of your cheese to Betsey, the Beagle, and kill offending squirrels on sight.

Bow to your new and cute god.


Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:16:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 9:19:31 PM EDT by PsyWarrior]

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
x402.putfile.com/3/6100071830.jpg




Exactly.....
My lord Browning, I pray that you watch over me with your 5 safeties. I swear to follow all 1911 commandments and to protect and to serve myself, my family, my community and my nation. I will follow the 45 tenets of the Auto Cartridge Pistol in doing so. May you bring Johns bounty to your followers and may your enemies die to hydrashock.


Sorry, sorta on the fly kinda stuff, but definitely the right idea.

ETA: When I was in school, most of the guys had buck 110's either in a holster on their belt, or in the back pocket. We would play mumbly peg between classes and use them to cut up apples to munch during class. No problem. No-one ever got stabbed in a fight or shot or...... (one guy did get a knife in the foot, but just pulled it out and kept on going)
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:17:00 PM EDT
1. It's in Canada.

2. It is legitimately characterized as an ancient tradition (been around for centuries at least).

3. I seem to recall reading about "restricted area" Sikh knives for such situations, with the blade riveted inside the scabbard.

Does seem like a "sauce for the goose" situation. If the Sikh boy's need to symbolically affirm his willingness to kill or die to protect his religion trumps the rules, my boy's need to affirm his willingness to protect himself and open heavy envelopes should do likewise.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:24:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
1. It's in Canada.

2. It is legitimately characterized as an ancient tradition (been around for centuries at least).

3. I seem to recall reading about "restricted area" Sikh knives for such situations, with the blade riveted inside the scabbard.

Does seem like a "sauce for the goose" situation. If the Sikh boy's need to symbolically affirm his willingness to kill or die to protect his religion trumps the rules, my boy's need to affirm his willingness to protect himself and open heavy envelopes should do likewise.



So we should be able to bring our handguns to school, then.. It'll be unloaded.. You know, just for the significance of it.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:29:36 PM EDT

Praise the Lord and pass the Ammunition.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:40:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
1. It's in Canada.

2. It is legitimately characterized as an ancient tradition (been around for centuries at least).

3. I seem to recall reading about "restricted area" Sikh knives for such situations, with the blade riveted inside the scabbard.

Does seem like a "sauce for the goose" situation. If the Sikh boy's need to symbolically affirm his willingness to kill or die to protect his religion trumps the rules, my boy's need to affirm his willingness to protect himself and open heavy envelopes should do likewise.



So we should be able to bring our handguns to school, then.. It'll be unloaded.. You know, just for the significance of it.



I can carry in schools in Oregon...
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:42:09 PM EDT
If that happened when I was in school Id have beat him up and took his silly knife.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:43:29 PM EDT
Sikhs are badasses.
I have nothing but the utmost respect for them.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:53:03 PM EDT
Those Kirpans are purely decorative, and as dull as butter knife.

I don't have a problem with it.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 10:03:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Those Kirpans are purely decorative, and as dull as butter knife.

I don't have a problem with it.



Yeah, they are mainly symbolic. It's the fact that their religion allowed them to carry weapons, but other people can not.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 10:06:06 PM EDT


Sikh-ening.



Link Posted: 3/2/2006 10:08:24 PM EDT
Don't the Sikh's hate moslums? If so, then It's OK for them to carry a blade.


Now, all I gotta do is find a religion that requires carry of a .45



My kids will be going to school soon.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 10:32:45 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 10:34:19 PM EDT by KS_Physicist]

Originally Posted By 22bad:
...because it sends the message that using force is necessary to assert rights and resolve conflict...



That isn't a "message", that is a fundamental human truth. Ultimately, the use of force (or the willingness) is the only thing standing between you and absolute slavery, and it is also the only thing standing between society and destructive anarchy.

Someone, somewhere, must be willing to put the smack down.

p.s.--Note to self: must look for any historical religious significance to my ancestors use of the Skean Dhu.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 11:12:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By BillofRights:
Don't the Sikh's hate moslums? If so, then It's OK for them to carry a blade.




Worst insult I could ever think of for a Sihk would be when a they were being assaulted (and I think one guy was even shot & killed) by idiots who thought they were Muslims shortly after 9/11.

I've always wondered if the red jewel the women put on their forehead is permanently embedded or if it just has a sticky backside to it. Anybody know the story on that?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 4:31:57 AM EDT
In my grandfather's day and in my father's day kids brought knives and guns to school all the time.

That was, of course, before PC took over and every kid turned into a potential murderer...

If this is "progress", I want no part of it.

Let the sikh kid bring his knife to school. But let Billy bring his Buck 110 and cased 20 guage so he can squirrel hunt on the way home from school.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 4:46:04 AM EDT


does Canada even *have* an ammended "freedom of religion" somewhere?


Link Posted: 3/3/2006 4:50:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By raven:
Who/what do you think prompted the Sikhs to require their men to carry a weapon?



Ouu, ouu, I know!
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 5:03:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By KS_Physicist:
p.s.--Note to self: must look for any historical religious significance to my ancestors use of the Skean Dhu.



It's got no religious significance AFAIR mate, but it would be repressing your minority heritage to not allow you to carry it. A friend had them for his wedding when all the male members of his family wore the Baxter Tartan, and he's about as scots as my arse.

Being a Welshman of course that means I get a longbow, it's only fair

/PHIl
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 5:04:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
x402.putfile.com/3/6100071830.jpg




[Larry the Cable Guy]That's funny, I don't care who you are[Larry the Cable Guy]

(and I'm a Mormon).
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 5:12:41 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 5:15:24 AM EDT by PhotoKidD100]
Well then because of my Russian, German, Scottish, Norwegian background I can, wear a kilt, carry an AK, and scream derogatory statements uncontrollably in German, and finally get to wear those wooden shoes?

the uniform policy can kiss my ass
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 5:12:55 AM EDT
I wonder if a Japanese student would be allowed to carry a katana?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 5:25:19 AM EDT
Those jewels have adhesive behind them, FYI.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 6:06:28 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 6:08:42 AM EDT
That's a strange ruling. Think of the children.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 6:26:39 AM EDT
I'm part Scottish, wife is part Scottish, I wonder if our kids could get away with a Kilt and a Sgian Dubh?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 6:36:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PromptCritical:
x402.putfile.com/3/6100071830.jpg




Woo hoo! My Photochop is popular.

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:14:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
1. It's in Canada.

2. It is legitimately characterized as an ancient tradition (been around for centuries at least).

3. I seem to recall reading about "restricted area" Sikh knives for such situations, with the blade riveted inside the scabbard.

Does seem like a "sauce for the goose" situation. If the Sikh boy's need to symbolically affirm his willingness to kill or die to protect his religion trumps the rules, my boy's need to affirm his willingness to protect himself and open heavy envelopes should do likewise.



So we should be able to bring our handguns to school, then.. It'll be unloaded.. You know, just for the significance of it.



Yeah, but even de-milled they would be pretty scary and useful.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:21:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lord_Grey_Boots:
Those Kirpans are purely decorative, and as dull as butter knife.

I don't have a problem with it.



I've heard of more than one account of an elementary school child being suspended for bringing one of those chintzy "Wisconsin Cheeseman" type butter knives to lunch.

Public education............. aw, I'm not going to waste bandwidth.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 9:53:57 AM EDT
Next case: Palestinian exchange students who want to wear green headbands and bomb belts to school.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 10:09:54 AM EDT

Originally Posted By PhotoKidD100:
Well then because of my Russian, German, Scottish, Norwegian background I can, wear a kilt, carry an AK, and scream derogatory statements uncontrollably in German, and finally get to wear those wooden shoes?

the uniform policy can kiss my ass



Now that's funny! I would actually like to see that. MJD
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 10:20:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By FLAL1A:
1. It's in Canada.

2. It is legitimately characterized as an ancient tradition (been around for centuries at least).

3. I seem to recall reading about "restricted area" Sikh knives for such situations, with the blade riveted inside the scabbard.

Does seem like a "sauce for the goose" situation. If the Sikh boy's need to symbolically affirm his willingness to kill or die to protect his religion trumps the rules, my boy's need to affirm his willingness to protect himself and open heavy envelopes should do likewise.



Interestingly, this has happened in NY last year. Same knife, 15 y/o Sikh in high school.

link to article

Press Release
16 March 2005 3 Chayt (Samvat 537 Nanakshahi)

UNITED SIKHS Helps New York Sikh Student Regain Right to Wear his Kirpan to School
Westchester County, New York—Despite 15 year old Amandeep Singh's exemplary academic and disciplinary records, he was suspended from his New York state Greenburgh Central School last month when the Kirpan he has been wearing to school for 7 years was deemed to be an offensive weapon by his school authorities.


Photograph. Amandeep Singh—“I thank God for the strength to stand up for my convictions and I thank UNITED SIKHS for being there for me” The school Principal determined at an initial hearing that Amandeep's kirpan, an element of Sikh religious expression, was a "weapon" and had suspended him after a hearing.

The UNITED SIKHS advocacy team led by New York lawyer Gurpatwant Singh, intervened with the assistance of lawyers from the Becket Fund. Yesterday, Amandeep received a letter from School Superintendent Josephine Moffett expunging his record of the suspension and allowing him to wear his kirpan at school. Gurpatwant Singh said, "We recognize that the school has upheld the First Amendment and we admire the stance taken by the school."

Amandeep Singh's family had sought help from the Sikh community last month and UNITED SIKHS responded on Feb 7th by submitting a written representation to the Principal's Office on the Sikh Articles of Faith. The Principal's attention was drawn to Amandeep's right to practise his religion under the First Amendment and a copy of the Sikh Rehat Maryada, code of conduct was submitted in support. The UNITED SIKHS letter addressed to the Principal can be seen at:
http://www.unitedsikhs.org/rtt/Letter_to_school.pdf

Gurpatwant Singh worked with the Becket Fund to represent Amandeep Singh at a second hearing on Feb16. The Becket Fund, an international, interfaith, public-interest law firm that protects the free expression of all religious traditions, was represented by its director of litigation, Derek Gaubatz.

Amandeep Singh says, "UNITED SIKHS helped me to get out of this situation. We Couldn't have done it without them. "They were the first to respond to my plea," says Amandeep whose message to fellow Sikh students is, "Stand up for your rights and Sikhi because there are always people out there to help you".

Amandeep became initiated as an Amritdhari Sikh at the age of eight, which necessitated him to wear the Kirpan, one of the five articles of faith. For over seven years, Amandeep attended local public schools and continuously observed all the five articles of his faith, including the wearing of the Kirpan, without any incident. Many of his teachers and fellow-students were aware of his Kirpan and according to Amandeep, "Every time anyone asked me about the Kirpan I would explain what it meant to me and they went away in admiration of my dedication to my faith." No one ever told Amandeep that his kirpan was a danger to anyone until one day last month due to information received by a school security guard, Amandeep was asked to explain to a school disclipinary hearing why he wore the Kirpan to school.

"We commend Amandeep Singh for being brave enough to stand up for his First Ammendment rights which would not only benefit him but also other Kirpan wearing Sikhs in school. We are very proud of his parents, Nirmal Singh and Manjit Kaur who supported him for his right to wear the Kirpan," said Manwinder Singh, UNITED SIKHS director.

"From the beginning we knew that a school had a balancing act to play when deciding between Amandeep's rights and the school's concern for safety. We commend the school for the consideration it showed to the facts presented to them by our Team," said Gurpatwant Singh, UNITED SIKHS' lawyer.

"The school's initial approach of suspending Amandeep until he stopped wearing the kirpan would effectively ban all baptized Sikhs from attending New York public schools," observed Becket Fund Director of Litigation Derek L. Gaubatz. "Such a ban would have been especially unfortunate because schools do allow students to handle numerous items much more dangerous than a kirpan such as scissors, mathematical compasses, screwdrivers, and baseball bats. Moreover, a recent Canadian study revealed that there has never been a single reported incident of kirpan related violence in any North American school."

During the hearing on Feb 16th Amandeep agreed to wear a smaller kirpan of two inches in length that would be securely fastened under his clothes in a cloth pouch. He also agreed to allow pre-arranged inspections by school officials to confirm his adherence to the conditions. The school agreed to expunge Amandeep's record of the suspension and, to ensure that no disciplinary action remains on his record. Yesterday, Superintendent Josephine Moffett gave her final approval to the agreement. The school letter agreeing to allow Amandeep Singh to wear his Kirpan can be seen at:
http://www.unitedsikhs.org/rtt/Letter_from_school.pdf

PR Issued by:
Manwinder Singh
Director
UNITED SIKHS
contact@unitedsikhs.org

Link Posted: 3/3/2006 10:40:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bullyforyou:

does Canada even *have* an ammended "freedom of religion" somewhere?





They have had a written equivalent of our bill of rights since 1982.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 10:59:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Combat_Jack:

Originally Posted By bullyforyou:

does Canada even *have* an ammended "freedom of religion" somewhere?





They have had a written equivalent of our bill of rights since 1982.



Does that include the RKBA?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 4:02:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By j-fonz:
That's a strange ruling. Think of the children.



That was mentioned in the article, the kids must be "taught" about.......well I confess, I found the rational a little "unclear"


"If some students consider it unfair that G may wear his kirpan to school while they are not allowed to have knives in their possession, it is incumbent on the schools to discharge their obligation to instil in their students this value that is at the very foundation of our democracy," it said.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 4:10:43 PM EDT
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