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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:41:28 PM EDT
Why is it that the government still allows companies like Botach to stay in business? We all know about their F rating at the BBB and about how many customers they have scammed.

To me the worst yet was when they were sending imitation ceramic plates off to customers who were active duty.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:43:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 7:44:13 PM EDT by www-glock19-com]
because they are cheap when they have stuff and that is all that mattetrs to many people they will not pay a extra $1 even if it means they get excellent service so they go to shitbags that are $1 cheaper

the gun bussiness is awash in companies like this and customers like that
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:44:06 PM EDT
Same reason threads like this are.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:44:23 PM EDT
'Cause there's a sucker born every minute.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:45:26 PM EDT
I guess I'm referring to the government shutting them down, not the free market. With the internet, scam companies will be around forever.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:46:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Opesus:
Why is it that the government still allows companies like Botach to stay in business? We all know about their F rating at the BBB and about how many customers they have scammed.

I have heard this alot

To me the worst yet was when they were sending imitation ceramic plates off to customers who were active duty. But what is this about ? Did I miss a thread?

Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:46:35 PM EDT
if you're big enough, you don't need to rely on repeat business. you can just take people's money once, and survive on that, though I'm not sure how word of mouth hasnt killed them long ago
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:00:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:52:36 PM EDT
Wow, I ordered some batteries for my surefire and I didn't have a problem with them. Although they did send a different brand then advertised but ehh, they work fine so no biggy. Won't be using them again after reading this though.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:57:09 PM EDT
My sad tale of woe regarding Botach:
A bit of background: I did 8 years in the USMC, from 85-93, fought in Desert Storm. I wanted to buy some armored plates recently and figured RBR plates were the way to go. Why? I used to live in Richmond, VA and became acquainted with their products at TREXPO in the late nineties. I found their RBR ALP plates at Botach Tactical for $400.00 per plate. I placed TWO separate orders in late January for a total of four plates on two separate orders and shipments.

I received the first shipment on a Wed and eagerly opened the package to find two plates. They were black plastic covered. I pried off the covers and found a white plate inside. But I noticed no RBR logo or other nomenclature. I called Botach and they said those were RBR plates. They said "we ship what they send us". The guy at Botach was the most senior manager they have, a guy named "Mark". I then called RBR on Thursday and spoke with James Scovell, President of RBR. He indicated that RBR products do in fact have some sort of RBR logo on each plate. He indicated that what I described to him were not RBR plates. I then called the owner of Botach, an individual known as "BK". He said that the first shipment was just a mistake and that if I sent them back I would have no problems, he would either credit me or send me RBR plates.

I received the second shipment Thursday. Guess what? They were not RBR plates either, but the same crappy plates with zero identifying marks, no codes, manufacture dates, nothing at all. I then called RBR again two more times. I have e-mailed them photos of what I received on two seperate shipments. The RBR guys have been great. I not only spoke with Mr. Scovell, but also Paul Fishnick and another gentleman by the first name Chris. All have been very keen to help me and stand behind RBR products and reputation. I will not speak for them, but I can say that they are not at all happy that one of their distributors has tried to get over on me. They also said they would sell me the plates directly. I wanted RBR products for a reason: they are the one of the best. I am convinced that Botach was hoping I was an air softer or some one who just did not know any better and who would never know the difference. I will not say why I want the plates, but I will say that lives could be in danger if sub-standard armor is relied upon in a moment of danger.

I have now received full credit on my Visa from Botach. But I have not heard back from RBR and I must assume that their offer to sell me the plates directly was just lip service. I am now in need of some plates. Anybody know the best place to get ceramic plates?


Let this be a lesson on Botach!

SADDER tale of woe: RBR never came through like they said they would. They completely blew me off on selling me their plates direct. If I had more time, I would call them out on it, but fook em, this is enough: RBR pissed on my leg and tried to tell me it was raining.

I finally bought some plates from bulletproofme.com


Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:15:20 PM EDT
I've never had a problem with them. Of course I've always bought with a company PO. I don't pay until after I open the box to verify the contents.z
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 11:31:15 PM EDT
I had very bad experience with Botach on the web. ( out of 10 times, the shippment was never made, because something was on back order, and they don't ship even if the order specific said ship back-ordered item separately.

I have no problem dealing with them at the shop, the guys are helpful, but you need to have a badge to get in. They have a large inventory of stuff, and worse yet, the internet order are streaming in, with not enough people to handle the order, so if an item cannot be located, they ditch the order and do the next one, meanwhile the same staff were serving the will call customer.

BK is a very shrew business man, he is a minimum overhead type, which means, he is under-staffed and his people are over-worked, but I am amazed with the staff ability to locate items in his ex-bank building (he wanted the build in vaults for his Class 3 stuff, and he have a range in one of the vault). He also suck up to the local LE and Military guys, since they need their business to maintain his extence in Los Angeles.

Not defending or supporting the business, since I have moved all my business elsewhere, since Botach lost a bunch of their dealership with some of the stuff I buy.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 11:45:55 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:02:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Opesus:
Why is it that the government still allows companies like Botach to stay in business? We all know about their F rating at the BBB and about how many customers they have scammed.

To me the worst yet was when they were sending imitation ceramic plates off to customers who were active duty.




The government can't just shut down a business because some people don't like that particular business. They can put people in prison if there is criminal activity. They can levy fines for certain violations. They can sue sometimes. They can even condemn the building that a business is located in. Any of those things might cause a business to go under, but they can't just close it down.

I've ordered from them a few times, and I've always gotten my stuff. The only time I've had a problem was this most recent occassion where 3 weeks went by and I got no shipment notification, or my stuff. I called and called, and couldn't get through. I waited a couple of days and tried again. Finally someone picked up the phone and you know what? She was quite pleasant and helpful... said she thought everything was in stock and she'd get right on it. Later that same day I got a voice message saying that one of the items was out of stock and did I want to split the shipment? Of course, I couldn't get through to them to say go ahead and split it but they did anyway and the next day I got a shipment notification by e-mail with what shipped and what was backordered. I've not actually got my stuff yet, and I'll probably have to call them in couple of weeks to get my back order onto their radar screen again, but I'm OK with that.

If I had to have something in my hand by next week, I wouldn't order from Botach, but if it not urgent I will accept some risk of a hassle for a better price. You don't get something for nothing.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 12:04:49 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Throttle-Junkie:
'Cause there's a sucker born every minute.



Yup.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 5:09:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By texastactical:

Originally Posted By CannoncockerUSMC:
I finally bought some plates from bulletproofme.com





Great company! The owner is a very good guy too.



Just out of curiousity, were there the appropriate markings on the replacement plates? Reason I ask is that I've heard repeatedly on the Net, mainly at Lightfighter, that there frequently are no markings, and that makes it impossible to verify the merchandise is NIJ rated. Could be anything, w/o some way to verify, ya know?
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 5:19:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By smurfsgonewild:
Wow, I ordered some batteries for my surefire and I didn't have a problem with them. Although they did send a different brand then advertised but ehh, they work fine so no biggy. Won't be using them again after reading this though.



Yeah, and when those no name jap Minato* batteries leak and destroy whatever you put them in, then you'll know why they were not a good deal.


* Engrish translation-'you just got fucked'.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 5:25:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Throttle-Junkie:
'Cause there's a sucker born every minute.


You beat me to it.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 5:44:55 AM EDT
Argh... I ordered a vertical foregrip from them before I knew of their reputation. The piece came a week later, but was not even remotely the same as the part on their website. I actually liked the grip that came, so I just let it lie. With the knowledge I have now, I won't use them again.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 7:44:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 7:45:46 AM EDT by gardenWeasel]
Q:Why are companies like Botach still around?

A:www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=442541
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 7:45:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Throttle-Junkie:
'Cause there's a sucker born every minute.




Old PT was right.
Link Posted: 3/3/2006 7:47:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gardenWeasel:
Q:Why are companies like Botach still around?

A:www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=442541



Yep.....
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