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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:10:48 AM EDT
[#1]
You know, I really don't buy into the all this inter-service rivalry.
I think the Marines are outstanding! After all, their principal purpose is to ensure that the Army doesn't have to get their feet wet. 
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:11:11 AM EDT
[#2]
Ummm, yeah it is. They modified the suspension and got rid of the amphibious drive system. LAV-25 is a specialized vehicle. I believe M1's were FORCED on the USMC to "standardize" MBT's. The USMC was worried about the amount of sea-lift needed for the heavier M1's as compared to the M60's. As well as the amount of support the M1's would need, being greater than the M60's requirements. USMC's M1's were new builds for them. One funny thing about the USMC they try and spec out equipment in such a way that it will fit on their exsisting tranport vehicles. The Army spec's out stuff then wonders why it won't fit into USAF planes properly. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:14:27 AM EDT
[#3]
No, my friend. My comments certainly did not include you directly, as I don't recall you having said anything like what I'm taking issue with. Sadly, however, the attitudes I am discussing seem to be rather prevalent in the USMC. While I was at USNA, with only ONE exception, every single USMC officer assigned to the place was an absolute arrogant asshole who thought their shit didn't stink. Too many Marines on this board seem to think the same way. Yes, those DO ruin it for the rest. With the one exception noted (He was a USMC pilot), I would not have followed a single one of those officers to the chow hall, let alone across a defended beach. All I know of the guys here is what they type, so that conclusion is pending, but what I'm reading doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies. ETA: BTW, it's "cite", not "site". 
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:14:37 AM EDT
[#4]
For the love of all that is holy, if you are going to loudly proclaim the supremacy of the Corps, please make sure that you get your facts straight. The M240 was in Army adopted the M240 for use in tanks in in 1977. This predates its adoption by the Corps for the LAV-25 by several years. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:15:03 AM EDT
[#5]
Hummm, seems like the USAF had the M16 before the USMC & the USAF was feilding the GAU series weapons before the USMD "developed" the M4. Oh and who in there right mind would want to take credit for the shitty A2 & it's 3 shot burst feature that had a extremly crappy trigger pull. Unless the Marines could not matain trigger control and had to spray and prey in order to hit anything. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:15:26 AM EDT
[#6]
I'm going to explain this one more time for all of the guys that are still confused. There is a Department of the Navy. It is run by the Secretary of the Navy. The Secretary of the Navy is in charge of the Navy and the Marine Corps. The Navy and the Marine Corps are two completely seperate organizations who report to the same department. That department is the Department of the Navy. The Marine Corps is in fact a part of the Department of the Navy. The Department of the Navy and the Navy are two separate things. One is a branch of the military. The other is a bureaucratic organization tasked with the administration and control of TWO separate branches of the military. Trying to say that the Marine Corps is a branch of the Navy is like saying that the Navy is the transportation and support wing of the USMC. It is not correct. Let’s not get confused about my point here. The Marine Corps and the Navy are sister services. We cooperate very well, and often assist each other in numerous ways. The Navy even provides all of the medical and dental support for the Marine Corps. However, the fact remains that the Marine Corps is not a part of the Navy. It is a sea service, hence the name, that reports to the SecNav. The Marine Corps and the Navy are completely separate, albeit highly cooperative, branches of the military. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:17:22 AM EDT
[#7]
Yeah, you doggies never really did grasp that whole rifle shooting/marksmanship thing, huh? 
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:18:20 AM EDT
[#8]
Insecurity is such an ugly thing....
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:21:50 AM EDT
[#9]
Yep we were servicing the COAX on the M60 for quite a few years before the Corps had the 240.
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:22:16 AM EDT
[#10]
lol I was tempted to post that Marines can be so insecure. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:22:24 AM EDT
[#11]
I need to find that Gary Coleman "who gives a fuck?" image
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:22:46 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:23:51 AM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:24:33 AM EDT
[#14]
You should know. You're the one exhibiting it in spades. Are you going to actually dispute anything I've posted, or just continue to prove my point? |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:24:36 AM EDT
[#15]
Insecure is the one trait I would not assign to the Corps.
Arrogant, "assholes", jerks... Sure, why not? But insecure? Try again. I can't count how many soldiers and sailors I've met who've found it necessary to explain why they didn't join the Marines, or how they "almost" did. Always something about it being "too hard". I'll say this, though. My Corpsman in Iraq was one of the finest fighting men I've ever known. He was a true warrior. Unfortunately, his replacement was much more sailor-like. Fat, unaggressive, lacking discipline. And on the flip side, ALL of the Seabees were outstanding. They were incredible. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:25:24 AM EDT
[#16]
joker 581 wrote"Name one thing that the Marine Corps gets from the Army, used or otherwise. "
Here are a few: Training Military Police school Jump School Ranger School Field Artillery (FDC 13E and Forward Observer 13F) Just to name a couple. I'm sure there are more. I've been to a few of these schools and Marines were there in class with me. I'm not pulling any punches just stating fact. I got to attend a few Marine course as well; IMPOC and Naval Gunfire. Sua Sponte, Prib |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:25:52 AM EDT
[#17]
A sailor and a marine are walking along a country rode on the way back to base and come across a sheep with its head stuck in a fence.
The sailor looks at the marine and says "noone is around, we should fuck that sheep" The marine nods dumbly and the sailor says "I'm first" and goes to work. When he finishes, he zips up and tells the marine "you're next" so the marine puts his head through the fence |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:27:46 AM EDT
[#18]
OMG, Can't we just get along
 Seriously, when the SHTF the United States Marine Corps have proven themselves over and over again. Spark all the rivalry you want, Capt. Scott O'Grady USAF was VERY HAPPY to see the Marines when they came to get him in Serbia/Bosnia. (Basher-52) And when Fidel and his band of merry commie men tried crap in Grenada who is that rescued the American medical students, that's right, the USMC. Now, before anyone jumps on the "The Navy brought them to the fight" or the "Air Force supported them with jets" or the "ARMY took over" band wagon, realize they are part of the larger MILITARY picture. Nobody plays alone. For the record, I am former USAF, but it don't matter one bit. Bottom line: I am proud of the USMC (And all of the services) and could give a rip if they are, or are not, under the Navy. (And for you equipment junkies, it was the "AIR FORCE" who first adopted them M-16 and then gave it to the rest of you infantry types )
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:28:05 AM EDT
[#19]
When you must use statements like "A Marine is worth 10 Soldiers" and show such disdain for your sister service ("We are NOT part of the Naaaaaaaaavy!
 "), then you are INSECURE.If you weren't, then you'd let the admirable record of the Corps speak for itself. But no. Instead, we get threads like this and repeated mentions of how the Marines are the only ones who polish their logo at the Vietnam Memorial, and other BS. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:28:20 AM EDT
[#20]
duh, you guys depend on navy ratings for all those unnecessary things marines are too lazy or stupid to do. Like medical care..... 
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:28:56 AM EDT
[#21]
The M103 tank is probably a decent example of the Marines getting stuff cheap from the Army when the Army decided they didn't want them any more. The heavy tanks had a very short service life as it was quickly made redundant by the 105mm tanks entering service which had a gun almost as good as the 120mm on the M103, was a lot more mobile, and decently armoured. The Marines figured that all these tanks were suddenly available, they were cheaper than new-build M-48A5s or M60s, so they bought them from the Army.
Sortof. LAV-25 is a simple variant of the Pirhana II chassis by the Swiss firm MOWAG. Stryker is a simple variant of the Pirhana III, also developed by MOWAG. The one is in effect a direct development of the other. NTM |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:29:11 AM EDT
[#22]
I think there's a lot of bullshit generalization and 'painting with a broad brush' going on in this thread.
I worked with great Marines, and shit-bird Marines during my time in the Corps. Great Sailors, and shit-bird Sailors...Hell, some of the Corpsman we had attached to my unit were the best guys I've ever known, and I wouldn't have wanted anyone else to give me first-aid if I got hit in combat. I worked with great Soldiers, and shit-bird Soldiers. Some of THE best training I ever got was from Army Rangers at the Jungle Warfare School, Ft. Sherman, Panama. Some of the most lackluster, undisciplined, and overweight people (in the U.S. Armed Forces) I have seen were part of an Army Reserve Engineer Company. Never had the opportunity to work closely with any Airman, but I would assume the same applies to them. And just my two cents - Department of the Navy, United States Marine Corps seems pretty clear to me. We may bag on being 'a part of the Navy', but call a spade a spade. Semper Fidelis. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:31:18 AM EDT
[#23]
You won't hear different from me. My beloved Navy was chock full of both outstanding people and complete assholes.
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:32:19 AM EDT
[#24]
Or maybe just an obnoxious asshole stating an unpleasant fact? As stated, my sailors were for the most part AWESOME under fire. But my experience with soldiers has soured me to that sister service. Completely unimpressive. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:33:14 AM EDT
[#25]
Just an obnoxious insecure asshole.
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:33:23 AM EDT
[#26]
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:34:05 AM EDT
[#27]
Yep. The doctor that misdiagnosed my injuries and performed the wrong surgery comes to mind. 
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:34:55 AM EDT
[#28]
I think you're projecting. 
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:35:17 AM EDT
[#29]
Or building stuff. ALL YOUR BASES ARE BELONG TO 
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:35:34 AM EDT
[#30]
Your found me out, I'm be a dumbarse Jarine
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:35:57 AM EDT
[#31]
No, just stating an unpleasant fact.
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:36:07 AM EDT
[#32]
 BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA! 
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:37:09 AM EDT
[#33]
Navy medicine. I had my run-in with them, and then finally got a decent doc who fixed me right up, so I can't complain. Took a LONG time and lots of pain to get there, though.
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:38:13 AM EDT
[#34]
+1 |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:38:57 AM EDT
[#35]
Maybe he meant to say that the Marine Corps developed/fielded first the M-240G, instead of the M240-B that the Army uses. [shrug], just giving the little fella the benefit of the doubt 
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:39:06 AM EDT
[#36]
depends entirely on the Marine and the soldier. I've met more than one shitbird Marine, and I met some pretty damned dedicated soldiers. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:41:09 AM EDT
[#37]
FWIW, I think the deal about getting old Army stuff was that
the Marines keep good platforms in service, and, make them work. The Cobra springs to mind, as does the M60 series MBTs. The Marines stuck with the M14 much longer than the Army did, IIRC. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:42:40 AM EDT
[#38]
Armor School.... |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:44:24 AM EDT
[#39]
Gee, fellas.... I don't quite know how to say this....  Up and running. That corny moniker doesn't all of a sudden make the Corps "more elite", though. No more than a beret makes a soldier feel special. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:44:37 AM EDT
[#40]
Am I the one that has been to the Naval Acadamy and can't comprehend the difference between the Navy and the Department of the Navy? Am I the one that doesn't comprehend that the Marine Corps and the Navy are two different branches of the military? Am I the one that can't comprehend that a simple statement that the USMC is not part of the Navy is not an attempt to bash the Navy. I have no beef with the Navy. That doesn't change the facts. The Marine Corps was established by Congress 230 years ago as a seperate branch of the military. The Marine Corps gets neither funding or command from the Navy, so how can is it a part of the Navy? The Navy and the Marine Corps work closely together and ultimatly report to the same guy. Without the Navy, there would be no Marine Corps. These are obvious facts. The problem is that there are still a shitload of people here who think that the Marine Corps is a part of the Navy in the same way that the Air Force was once to be part of the Army. This is not the case now, nor has it ever been. I have disputed everything you have posted. I started this thread with you in mind. The reference to what we get from the Army is likewise not an Army bashing post. I fully understand that the Marine Corps has a great deal of cooperation with the Army for schools and such. I know that we have a great deal of similar equipment, and that development of said equipment is done on both sides. That element of the initial post is directed at those board members who would have us all believe that the Marine Corps gets equipment secondhand from the Army and that the Marine Corps is strictly limited to fighting with shit we find at DRMO. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:48:43 AM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:56:52 AM EDT
[#42]
A Ranger is taking a leak in the head when a Marine walks up to the urinal next to him and proceeds to do his business.
The Ranger finishes up and starts to exit the head. "You know," states the Marine loudly, "in the Corps, they teach us to wash our hands after we piss." "Yeah?" replies the Ranger, "In the Army, they teach us not to piss on our hands."
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:58:35 AM EDT
[#43]
You "had no idea". That sure didn't slow you down on claiming it now did it? I'm not evening going to address the "infantry" claim. (Armor are infantry that ride)
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Posted: 3/2/2006 7:59:07 AM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 3/2/2006 8:00:13 AM EDT
[#45]
Always seem to be quite a few Marines hangin' out at Ft. Leonard Wood. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 8:01:12 AM EDT
[#46]
Who cares!!!!
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Posted: 3/2/2006 8:09:03 AM EDT
[#47]
At least the thread title was accurate!
"Misinformation about the Marine Corps" |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 8:10:32 AM EDT
[#48]
I don't know about armor in the Army, but tankers in the Marine Corps are not infantry and don't claim to be. |
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Posted: 3/2/2006 8:11:32 AM EDT
[#49]
That's funny, my exact experience with Marines. Take heart though, I don't think ALL Marines are that way, there must be an honest one somewhere.
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Posted: 3/2/2006 8:12:53 AM EDT
[#50]
I can tell you why not: In April '03 after Baghdad fell, my mixed forces team SiteSurveyTeam7 (I didn't run it, I just happened to be on it - lowly E5 here ) started running missions in Iraq, our AO was Baghdad - South (Southern Baghdad and the rest of the country south of) And all my interactions w/Marines were extremely positive. We stayed at Marine bases several times, used their fuel, food, water and supplies. They always took great care of us and came through like champs. IE during a mission to a former chemical/biological weapons storage site outside of An Naseriyah (the one our troops destroyed stockpiles at during GW1) 2 of our HMMV's broke down 2 days in a row. We limped into the nearby Marine Base (at Talil I think) at a quarter to 6pm and Marine mechanics started fixing our vehicles for the next 3 hours. Other Marines resupplied us and brought us chow. The Marines removed parts from their working vehicles to get us operational. This never would have happened at our motorpool back at Camp Slayer. In fact I was put up for an Army commendation medal just for managing to get new tires, shocks replaced, and some other parts from our support motorpool. (I made some deals with the mechanics) Marines pulled security for us as well as other detials and I never heard one complaint. Of cours it couldn't of ad anything to do with the fact that my OIC was a Marine Corps LTC. Anyway we never would have been able to accomplish our missions without Marine assistance. Thank you  !sst7 |
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