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Posted: 3/1/2006 8:53:22 PM EDT
well, huh?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:55:46 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sprist:
well, huh?



If you move out of CA you can have an AR15.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:58:03 PM EDT
I belive he is talking about the stag arms recievers........Basicaly the statute left out stag arms so people bought a ton of stag lowers in Cali to get around the law but last I heard they maybe screwed after the CDOJ revises the statute.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 8:58:26 PM EDT
You can have all the AR's you want-
just don't get caught.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:01:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By justinwb:
I belive he is talking about the stag arms recievers........Basicaly the statute left out stag arms so people bought a ton of stag lowers in Cali to get around the law but last I heard they maybe screwed after the CDOJ revises the statute.



It is a lot bigger than just stag.

If it isn't on this list, you can import them into CA.

The basic gist of it after importing is...

You can build it up with a fixed magazine, or bolt-action (disable the gas system) and should the DOJ add it to the list at a later time (which they have the power to do, and ave said they are going to do) you MAY be able to register them as an AW and built it up like normal.

It's also not a loophole - it's a piece of poorly-written, shit legislation.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:01:07 PM EDT
Make friends with the ice cream truck driver and you can get anything you want in California.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:02:09 PM EDT
Basically everyone in Cali ran out and bought lowers all at the same time.DOJ is confused on what to do and put out a letter that has so many holes in it you could drive a train through it.Stay tuned.....
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:09:10 PM EDT
Go Cali Dogs!!!!!

Roo-Roo-Roo!
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:16:14 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By justinwb:
I belive he is talking about the stag arms recievers........Basicaly the statute left out stag arms so people bought a ton of stag lowers in Cali to get around the law but last I heard they maybe screwed after the CDOJ revises the statute.



It is a lot bigger than just stag.

If it isn't on this list, you can import them into CA.

The basic gist of it after importing is...

You can build it up with a fixed magazine, or bolt-action (disable the gas system) and should the DOJ add it to the list at a later time (which they have the power to do, and ave said they are going to do) you MAY be able to register them as an AW and built it up like normal.

It's also not a loophole - it's a piece of poorly-written, shit legislation.



Is there a updated list? That list is 6 years old.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:23:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:25:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mjrowley:
Is there a updated list? That list is 6 years old.



You just stumbled across the so-called "loophole"
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:31:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 9:31:33 PM EDT by mtechgunman]



thats a big FUCK YOU to the DOJ.


haha tards'
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:37:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 9:41:59 PM EDT by blacklisted]
So far we have RRA, Lauer, Fulton, Superior Arms, Stag, Ameetec, LAR, DSA, Vulcan , MGI, Mega, CMMG, and Double Star coming in (at least 10,000 all together).

Most companies have refused to deal directly with us due to often illegal intimidation by the CA DoJ. Those that were able to wade through the bullshit have my respect, and I will be purchasing from them in the future.

That doesn't include the AK type receivers.

I personally got two Fultons, but I feel kind of bad buying them after what they pulled in December.

I'm too broke to get anything else right now though.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:38:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By justinwb:
I belive he is talking about the stag arms recievers........Basicaly the statute left out stag arms so people bought a ton of stag lowers in Cali to get around the law but last I heard they maybe screwed after the CDOJ revises the statute.



It is a lot bigger than just stag.

If it isn't on this list, you can import them into CA.

The basic gist of it after importing is...

You can build it up with a fixed magazine, or bolt-action (disable the gas system) and should the DOJ add it to the list at a later time (which they have the power to do, and ave said they are going to do) you MAY be able to register them as an AW and built it up like normal.

It's also not a loophole - it's a piece of poorly-written, shit legislation.



Lucky you.
They might "let" you exercise your rights.
Shit man - how fucked up is this country?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:43:58 PM EDT
THAT is why y'all have the big gang problem still!!! Those dangerous murder weapons are still getting into the state. Fix that loophole, and you'll have the Eutopia that the wise, intelligent, connected with reality actors have always wanted.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:44:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Lucky you.
They might "let" you exercise your rights.
Shit man - how fucked up is this country?



Wow, a diss on our laws, WITHOUT resorting to "fuck CA, we don't need them, I hope it falls into the ocean, they got what they deserve, RUN AWAY LIKE A PUSSY!" remarks.

I commend you for not following the ARFCOM norm.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:47:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 9:49:19 PM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Lucky you.
They might "let" you exercise your rights.
Shit man - how fucked up is this country?



Wow, a diss on our laws, WITHOUT resorting to "fuck CA, we don't need them, I hope it falls into the ocean, they got what they deserve, RUN AWAY LIKE A PUSSY!" remarks.

I commend you for not following the ARFCOM norm.



It's not a Kali problem.
A gun law anywhere is a threat to our rights everywhere.
We are all brothers in this fight.
I think sometimes people forget that.
Just wanted to let you guys know that I held off on ordering a stag lower during the rush, so there might be one more in your state.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:51:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Lucky you.
They might "let" you exercise your rights.
Shit man - how fucked up is this country?



This country is not the problem - it's the California state senate, assembly, and governor who are responsible for making these laws that conflict with the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:53:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tonkaman:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Lucky you.
They might "let" you exercise your rights.
Shit man - how fucked up is this country?



This country is not the problem - it's the California state senate, assembly, and governor who are responsible for making these laws that conflict with the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.



I guess they also made the Federal AWB, the GCA of '68, and the NFA. Yep, California is the ONLY thing wrong with this Nation.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:14:50 PM EDT
I heard they closed it?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:24:12 PM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:
I heard they closed it?



Nope, it's still going on (just not the mad rush that we had in January when we thought a list update was going to happen immediately).
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:27:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tonkaman:
This country is not the problem - it's the California state senate, assembly, and governor who are responsible for making these laws that conflict with the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.



Not to be a jackass, but these people didn't just walk into a building one day and say "I'm a CA senator!" or "I'm the governor!". They got VOTED in.

The problem isn't just the idiots running this country, its the retards who put them there by voting them into office.

Chris
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:33:27 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GrumpyM4:

Originally Posted By Tonkaman:
This country is not the problem - it's the California state senate, assembly, and governor who are responsible for making these laws that conflict with the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.



Not to be a jackass, but these people didn't just walk into a building one day and say "I'm a CA senator!" or "I'm the governor!". They got VOTED in.

The problem isn't just the idiots running this country, its the retards who put them there by voting them into office.

Chris



You're SO right!

So in that case, I guess the only people you can blame would be the people who voted for them, hmm?

I doubt you're going to find many, if any, ARFCOMers who voted for these fucksticks, so lets leave the antburning where it's derserved and not shit on other pro-gun members.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:40:21 PM EDT

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By thedoctors308:
Lucky you.
They might "let" you exercise your rights.
Shit man - how fucked up is this country?



Wow, a diss on our laws, WITHOUT resorting to "fuck CA, we don't need them, I hope it falls into the ocean, they got what they deserve, RUN AWAY LIKE A PUSSY!" remarks.

I commend you for not following the ARFCOM norm.



It's not a Kali problem.
A gun law anywhere is a threat to our rights everywhere.
We are all brothers in this fight.
I think sometimes people forget that.
Just wanted to let you guys know that I held off on ordering a stag lower during the rush, so there might be one more in your state.



Wow dude, you rock; and thanks. I bought a couple of lowers myself just a few days before SHOT.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:44:39 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:51:45 PM EDT

Originally Posted By justinwb:
I belive he is talking about the stag arms recievers........Basicaly the statute left out stag arms so people bought a ton of stag lowers in Cali to get around the law but last I heard they maybe screwed after the CDOJ revises the statute.



Therein lies the biggest problem: The CADOJ is attempting to have the new lowers registered as a new class of AW. The problem is, that's not what the law says. The DOJ is trying to make up new regs as it sees fit, which is a serious overstep of their authority. Only the CA legislature has the authority to change classifications, in the form of passing a new law. The only thing the DOJ is authorized to do is add new models to the existing classifications and enforce the existing laws.

Then again, when has a govenment agency ever worried about overstepping their authority?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:52:44 PM EDT
The hope is that when the DoJ updates the list, there is a mandatory 90 day registration period that opens up, and making it with all the nasty features. But if they don't add the lower to the list then you are stuck with making it a pinned/fixed mag or non-semi-automatic version of some kind.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:45:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By GrumpyM4:

Originally Posted By Tonkaman:
This country is not the problem - it's the California state senate, assembly, and governor who are responsible for making these laws that conflict with the US Constitution and Bill of Rights.



Not to be a jackass, but these people didn't just walk into a building one day and say "I'm a CA senator!" or "I'm the governor!". They got VOTED in.

The problem isn't just the idiots running this country, its the retards who put them there by voting them into office.

Chris



No, you're not a jackass and people who don't vote the same way you do are not necessarily retarded.

The truth is, there are not enough conservatives, libertarians, and Republican party members actually going to the polling booth in California on election day.

They complain alot about the outcome of elections but they don't get motivated enough to do something about it.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:52:40 AM EDT

Originally Posted By blacklisted:

I guess they also made the Federal AWB, the GCA of '68, and the NFA. Yep, California is the ONLY thing wrong with this Nation.



I am not condemming the entire nation because of California gun laws. At the federal level, the AWB expired and 75% of states now have Right to Carry laws. While gun laws are being liberalized across the nation, California, New Jersey and a few other states legislators are dreaming up new more restrictive ways to ban all guns. Micro-stamping bullets? Microchips in handguns? They are really streching now, don't 'cha think?
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 7:54:01 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:18:06 AM EDT
Explain to me what good these lower are to you, when you can not have an AR15 to begin with.

I'm sure I am missing something...
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:21:31 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:25:18 AM EDT
What good is a lower if it still has to have a 10 round mag, and no gas system????????
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:27:35 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:40:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
What good is a lower if it still has to have a 10 round mag, and no gas system????????





That's all that you can do with it TODAY.....

However, these lowers were purchased with the anticipation that CA will add them by name to the prohibited list. When they do that, by law they will have to allow a 90 day period to register these lowers as "Assault Weapons". At that point they can be built into complete AR-15s.

Since the law is dependent on the weapon being banned by name, the whole process would start over again. You order a "F U CA" brand lower, they ban it by name, and then you register it as an AW.

Brilliant !
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 8:48:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By brassburn:
I haven't joined the rush, primarily because I am the registered owner of quite a few now illegal toys. If I wasn't I would definitely give it a shot.

My gut feeling is that the reason we haven't seen any action on the lowers from DOJ is that they are taking their time to tighten up the language (possibly working with the legislature to ensure success) and are preparing to deal with the flood of lowers. Hopefully they won't find some outrageous way to screw the owners of the off-list lowers.



from what I hear in our efforts to get a few of our goodies approved is that the entire legislation is about to crumble and the DOJ is saying good riddance. Not sure if there's anticipation to rewrite it and close the loop holes or what.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:01:26 AM EDT
So people are buying them HOPING they get banned...that's terrible!
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:24:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pattymcn:


from what I hear in our efforts to get a few of our goodies approved is that the entire legislation is about to crumble and the DOJ is saying good riddance. Not sure if there's anticipation to rewrite it and close the loop holes or what.



This is the goal. Demonstrate that existing California AW laws and the "list" are unworkable, counterproductive, and useless and should be voided entirely.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:25:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By WS4LIF:
So people are buying them HOPING they get banned...that's terrible!



It's worse thn terrible. Banning is what liberals want.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:32:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By nf9648:
I heard they closed it?



Not yet. But one of the newer members here sent a press release to hundreds of news media outlets for some strange reason. So expect new AW stories to be on TV and in the paper followed by a sweeping new ban on all magazine fed semiautomatic centerfire rifles passed under the guise of closing the loophole.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:35:28 AM EDT

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By nf9648:
I heard they closed it?



Not yet. But one of the newer members here sent a press release to hundreds of news media outlets for some strange reason. So expect new AW stories to be on TV and in the paper followed by a sweeping new ban on all magazine fed semiautomatic centerfire rifles passed under the guise of closing the loophole.



WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT, OVER!?

Please explain.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:47:48 AM EDT
Thanks for the info, now I know why my FFL is out of receivers. All you Cali guys are bogarting them.
Well good for you, and hopefully they grandfather all your AR's in. Or better yet, repeal the stupid law!

Texas was once Democratic, maybe Cali will change too.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 9:57:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 4:43:16 PM EDT
OK, let's clear something up:

THE CALIFORNIA D.O.J. DOES NOT HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO REVISE THE LAW ITSELF!!! THIS INCLUDES CREATING A NEW CLASS OF AW. IF THEY TRY TO DO THIS, THEY ARE VIOLATING THE LAW. THE D.O.J. ONLY HAS AUTHORITY TO ADD MODELS TO THE LIST!

I believe there is also a mandatory registration amnesty for any new models added to the list.

If anything, before they add the guns to the list, they will be working with CA legislators to develop a new law. They can't make law, but they will do their best to help the legislature do it. Since the lowers are already legally in the state, they probably can't take them, but I suspect they will write the law in such a way that the lowers will NOT be able to be built into AW's and prevent importation of any more lowers. All they have to do is come up with a definition of "AR Series" that passes judicial muster.

Govenment hates to be made to look stupid, and will spend millions of dollars of YOUR money to ensure that you can't continue to make them look stupid. I'm afraid you guys with lowers might just lose out. I would even go so far as to predict that they might just write in a clause making it illegal for you to sell the lowers, so you will have to forever live with your "mistake" of fucking with the government.

Link Posted: 3/2/2006 4:50:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By GonzoAR15-1:

Originally Posted By AR15fan:

Originally Posted By nf9648:
I heard they closed it?



Not yet. But one of the newer members here sent a press release to hundreds of news media outlets for some strange reason. So expect new AW stories to be on TV and in the paper followed by a sweeping new ban on all magazine fed semiautomatic centerfire rifles passed under the guise of closing the loophole.



WHISKEY TANGO FOXTROT, OVER!?

Please explain.



This is correct.

Quoted from the "whistleblower"


Blasted via a PR wire to several hundred CA newspapers and news/talk radio stations.

Y'all know how to contact me here or at Calguns, so I've blanked out the special contact email/phone# and reserved that for media.

I believe legislators will first tell DOJ to act - that way they can occupy themselves with other torments of the population.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
California AG Bill Lockyer Failed To Update Banned Assault Weapon List For Past Five Years
[/size]



Over 10,000 New AR and AK Rifle Frames in California in Last Two Months


California AG Bill Lockyer has failed to update the “Kasler list” of banned assault weapons for over five years. Over 10,000 unlisted AK and AR “series” firearm frames have been legally purchased in California since mid-December 2005. These are being built into legal, operational firearms differing from banned assault weapons only by model name and the lack of a 99-cent plastic pistol grip.

[/size]

San Jose, CA • March 1, 2006 — California gun owners are taking advantage of the fact that state Attorney General Bill Lockyer – running for state Treasurer in 2006 – has not updated the “Kasler list” of banned AR and AK “series” assault weapons since late 2000. The June 2001 California Supreme Court Harrott decision specifically states that “series” assault weapons must be officially named by the Department of Justice in the California Code of Regulations before they can be banned from further sale (and subject to further regulation through a special registration process).

In just the last 10 weeks over 10,000 frames – called receivers – of unlisted AR and AK series weapons have been legally sold by licensed firearm dealers throughout the state. (State law requires receiver sales to be treated as any other firearm sales: sales must be performed at licensed dealers, with 10-day waiting periods and ID and background checks.) Letters from Lockyer’s Deputy AG, Alison Merrilees, confirm the legality of the sale and possession of these “off-list receivers”.

California gun owners are building these “off-list” AR-type frames into legal, operational rifles that differ from the PC 12276.1 generic definition of assault weapon only by the absence of a 99-cent plastic pistol grip. Other owners have affixed 10-round fixed magazines to these frames so as to avoid conforming with the detachable magazine definition codified in California Code of Regulations section 978.20(a), again not violating the PC 12276.1 generic assault weapons definition. Off-list AK-type receivers can also be legally constructed into non-semiautomatic, manually-cycled rifles by not installing the gas system and by also blocking the barrel’s gas port.

The recent intense interest in these off-list AR & AK receivers developed due to the national popularity of these sport-utility rifle platforms, the 2004 Federal assault weapons ban sunset, and the desire of California gunowners to be able to use these modified rifle platforms in state, while fully configuring these rifles with their standard features whenever they travel outside California.

For more information, please email XXXXXX at XXX@XXX.com or call 408-000-0000.

# # #

[/size]

References:

Harrott v. Kings County CA Supreme Court decision (2001) 25 Cal. 4th 1138, 1155.

Calif. assault weapon laws: ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.htm
Calif. assault weapon regulations: ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/sb23.pdf
Calif. assault weapon list: ag.ca.gov/firearms/regs/aw.pdf
Article, AP State & Local Wire,
David Kravets, 6/29/01, Supreme Court Opinion Cripples Assault Weapon Ban
Article, People for American Way,
web article discusses Harrott decision and Justice Janice Rogers Brown:
www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=12559
[/size]



The idea is to put media pressure on the DOJ and force their hand to fix the so-called "loophole" in a hasty, yet not as thorough as possible way.

I haven't made up my mind if this is good or not... Time will tell.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 4:58:16 PM EDT
If there is one thing that can be said for CA gun owners you guys are resiliant to the end. Every freaking loophole that can be exploited, and every single backdoor you guys take it all the way. If the rest of the country were as resiliant as you guys we wouldn't even be dealing with the BS like we are now. Unfortunatly you are just outnumbered but fuck em' remember you are the ones with the guns right.
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 4:59:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By justinwb:
I belive he is talking about the stag arms recievers........Basicaly the statute left out stag arms so people bought a ton of stag lowers in Cali to get around the law but last I heard they maybe screwed after the CDOJ revises the statute.



It is a lot bigger than just stag.

If it isn't on this list, you can import them into CA.

The basic gist of it after importing is...

You can build it up with a fixed magazine, or bolt-action (disable the gas system) and should the DOJ add it to the list at a later time (which they have the power to do, and ave said they are going to do) you MAY be able to register them as an AW and built it up like normal.

It's also not a loophole - it's a piece of poorly-written, shit legislation.



Thanks for the shoping list
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 5:12:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/2/2006 5:13:22 PM EDT by thedoctors308]

Originally Posted By SigSaurP228:
If there is one thing that can be said for CA gun owners you guys are resiliant to the end. Every freaking loophole that can be exploited, and every single backdoor you guys take it all the way. If the rest of the country were as resiliant as you guys we wouldn't even be dealing with the BS like we are now. Unfortunatly you are just outnumbered but fuck em' remember you are the ones with the guns right.



They take it all the way, in every single back door?


Link Posted: 3/2/2006 5:16:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 13thWarrior:

Originally Posted By leelaw:
this list



Thanks for the shoping list



I know. I'm printing out a copy on my way out of the state, and using it as a shopping list.

If you want a better shopping list, check this out: Assault Weapon Identification Guide
Link Posted: 3/2/2006 5:56:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By leelaw:

Originally Posted By 13thWarrior:

Originally Posted By leelaw:
this list



Thanks for the shoping list



I know. I'm printing out a copy on my way out of the state, and using it as a shopping list.

If you want a better shopping list, check this out: Assault Weapon Identification Guide



Wanna hear something really funny?
When I was like 8 or 9, my dad (LEO) had some ATF agents come to his dept and hand out these thick guides, just like the one you posted.
My dad brought it home and gave it to me to look at.
I've been hooked ever since.
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