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Posted: 3/1/2006 10:05:28 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2006 2:22:26 PM EDT by TheSelecter]
Ok so this is what happened to me. I have the paper work that proves prices and offers that were given to me. Basically i'm pissed at these people and want to know what could i do? Did they do anything illegal? Can i get anything out of this fiasco?

February 26th went to Acura of Mission Viejo to meet with January Lopez about buying a 2006 Acura RSX-S type. I wanted the car in blue with these extra body options. Front, Middle and Rear underbody spoilers, and a High wing spoiler with lid. These are all options listed on Acura’s website for the car and I was told that these were ordered by and installed by the dealers.

January asked me if I had any previous quotes for the car. I replied that I did and told her that I had an offer for $23,168. She told me that she could beat that offer. After telling her what body options I wanted, she told me that the dealer charged $6,000 for those options. I replied that they shouldn’t cost more than the $1,700 msrp price listed on acura’s website for those options. She then went to go talk to her manager. She came back and made me the following offer.

A blue 2006 Acura RSX-S type with Front, Middle and Rear underbody spoilers, and a High wing spoiler with lid, all installed for $23,935. She said that, that price included all taxes fees, “everything”. I asked if that included sales tax. She replied “yes, everything”. I then asked if installation of my extras was included in that price. She replied “yes, everything, out the door, installation is included”. I told her that I really liked that offer but I couldn’t buy the car right then because I had to be down in san diego to coach a soccer team in just over an hour.

She wrote down the offer on the back of a business card and I told her that I would come back in 2 days on the 28th.

On the afternoon of the 28th I called her to let her know that I was going to be coming up again. She told me that was great and that she would get as close to the offer that she gave me as possible or would give me the same offer if she could. I agreed to this but after thinking it over and talking to people I called her back. I told her that I was only going to come up there if she could give me the same offer of $23,935 that she gave me on the 26th. She said that she would have to talk to her manager and call me back. I told her that was fine.

After 30 min she called me back to ask if I was going to lease or finance and how much money I was going to put down. I told her that I was going to finance and put $4,000 down on the car. She then told me that she would have to call me back again. After another 30 min she called me again and told me that she would be able to give me the car for the original agreed upon price of $23,935 with 4.9% APR if I came up there today to buy it. I agreed and told her I was coming up.

I left work early and drove up to Mission Viejo with my girlfriend. Upon getting there January Lopez sat down with us again. She explained the offer again but this time she left off installation of my extras. I reminded her that she had agreed that the installation price was included in her offer. She then went to go talk to her manager and agreed that it was included.

After going over the offer one more time I realized that she was referring to the wrong spoiler. I told her once again that I wanted the High wing spoiler with lid and nothing else. She then went to talk to her manager and came back telling me that it would cost me $298 extra for that spoiler. She said that she thought I wanted a different one in the original offer. I told her that I explained exactly what and I wanted and that I should still get the original price. She went to talk to her manager again and came back saying I still needed to pay the extra. I agreed on this and she had me sign a piece of paper with the 4 body options I wanted and their respective prices.

After this we talked a little more and the agreed upon price of the car was $23,935 + $298 = $24,233. Once again I verified that this price included installation of extras, sales tax, licensing and all fees, out the door price. She agreed that this was all true and that the car was mine out the door for $24,233. She had me sign three copies of requests for my credit which I did. January then told me that she was going to send me over to Mike Shaw in finance.

Mike Shaw was sitting in his office with the copies of my credit report in front of him. He told me that my credit was pretty good and that he was “going to try to get me 4.9% APR”. He was going to try his best to get me that even though I hadn’t had a loan before so it might be hard. He showed me my credit report that he had and pointed out various things. He had a print out of an Auto FICO score of 714 on my report. I told him that wasn’t my actual FICO report because I had a copy of it and it was really 789. He then said that the 714 wasn’t an actual FICO score but one based off of it. I then told him it shouldn’t matter that I hadn’t had a loan before because my credit was excellent and went back 15 years with a $10,000 credit limit on my card for that amount of time.

He then told me that he would see what he could do and that I could drive the car home tonight ( they had taken it out of the show room, prepped it and had it sitting outside the front door ready to go) and that tomorrow he would call me and let me know what APR I had qualified for. I told him that I wasn’t going anywhere without seeing my agreed upon price of the car in a written contract signed. Mike told me that all of that should have been taken care of before he saw me. He went a printed out a sheet of paper that had all the prices on it for my car.

The price that he had listed for my car was not $24,233 but $26,413. I told him that this was the wrong price and that taxes and fees were included in the price of $24,233. His print out had my price of $24,233 with the following added: $1,881.58 added for taxes and $298.75 for fees. The fees part is interesting because it doesn’t say what those fees are but that is pretty much exactly the extra amount I agreed to pay for the spoiler. However that extra had already been added into the base price. Remember the base price had increased by $298 already and I was going to be charged another $298 on top of that. It seems that they were going to double charge me for the spoiler.

I told him that his price was wrong and that the total price should have been $24,233. He said there was no way that was right and went to go talk to his manager (not January who made the deal). He came back and said that tax and license were never included in these types of prices and told me I owed $26,413.73. I refused and told him the deal was $24,233 and I wasn’t taking anything else. He went to go talk to his manager again and came back saying the original price was wrong and couldn’t include everything. I pulled out the written quote January gave me on Sunday and showed it to him. It specifically says that Tax, license dest + specs incl (body kit). He took the card to his manager and came back saying once again there was no way that was right.

I told him that was the deal and he was either going to give it to me for $24,233 or he wasn’t. I told him that if there was a problem with the deal then he would have had January in his office right away. She had approved the deal with her boss so what was the problem. It was a yes or no question I told him. He told me that he couldn’t sell me the car for $24,233 so I promptly stood up, told him that I was leaving then and walked out with my girlfriend. He ran out after me and gave me two gift certificates to Nordstrom’s as I was getting into my car. January then also ran out to try to apologize and I closed my car door and drove off.

Is it legal to let me drive a car off the lot and not even tell me what my loan amount is for or what APR i'm getting? What do you guys suggest i do?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:08:43 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:
Ok so this is what happened to me. I have the paper work that proves prices and offers that were given to me. Basically i'm pissed at these people and want to know what could i do? Did they do anything illegal? Can i get anything out of this fiasco?

February 26th went to Acura of Mission Viejo to meet with January Lopez about buying a 2006 Acura RSX-S type. I wanted the car in blue with these extra body options. Front, Middle and Rear underbody spoilers, and a High wing spoiler with lid. These are all options listed on Acura’s website for the car and I was told that these were ordered by and installed by the dealers.

January asked me if I had any previous quotes for the car. I replied that I did and told her that I had an offer for $23,168. She told me that she could beat that offer. After telling her what body options I wanted, she told me that the dealer charged $6,000 for those options. I replied that they shouldn’t cost more than the $1,700 msrp price listed on acura’s website for those options. She then went to go talk to her manager. She came back and made me the following offer.

A blue 2006 Acura RSX-S type with Front, Middle and Rear underbody spoilers, and a High wing spoiler with lid, all installed for $23,935. She said that, that price included all taxes fees, “everything”. I asked if that included sales tax. She replied “yes, everything”. I then asked if installation of my extras was included in that price. She replied “yes, everything, out the door, installation is included”. I told her that I really liked that offer but I couldn’t buy the car right then because I had to be down in san diego to coach a soccer team in just over an hour.

She wrote down the offer on the back of a business card and I told her that I would come back in 2 days on the 28th.

On the afternoon of the 28th I called her to let her know that I was going to be coming up again. She told me that was great and that she would get as close to the offer that she gave me as possible or would give me the same offer if she could. I agreed to this but after thinking it over and talking to people I called her back. I told her that I was only going to come up there if she could give me the same offer of $23,935 that she gave me on the 26th. She said that she would have to talk to her manager and call me back. I told her that was fine.

After 30 min she called me back to ask if I was going to lease or finance and how much money I was going to put down. I told her that I was going to finance and put $4,000 down on the car. She then told me that she would have to call me back again. After another 30 min she called me again and told me that she would be able to give me the car for the original agreed upon price of $23,935 with 4.9% APR if I came up there today to buy it. I agreed and told her I was coming up.

I left work early and drove up to Mission Viejo with my girlfriend. Upon getting there January Lopez sat down with us again. She explained the offer again but this time she left off installation of my extras. I reminded her that she had agreed that the installation price was included in her offer. She then went to go talk to her manager and agreed that it was included.

After going over the offer one more time I realized that she was referring to the wrong spoiler. I told her once again that I wanted the High wing spoiler with lid and nothing else. She then went to talk to her manager and came back telling me that it would cost me $298 extra for that spoiler. She said that she thought I wanted a different one in the original offer. I told her that I explained exactly what and I wanted and that I should still get the original price. She went to talk to her manager again and came back saying I still needed to pay the extra. I agreed on this and she had me sign a piece of paper with the 4 body options I wanted and their respective prices.

After this we talked a little more and the agreed upon price of the car was $23,935 + $298 = $24,233. Once again I verified that this price included installation of extras, sales tax, licensing and all fees, out the door price. She agreed that this was all true and that the car was mine out the door for $24,233. She had me sign three copies of requests for my credit which I did. January then told me that she was going to send me over to Mike Shaw in finance.

Mike Shaw was sitting in his office with the copies of my credit report in front of him. He told me that my credit was pretty good and that he was “going to try to get me 4.9% APR”. He was going to try his best to get me that even though I hadn’t had a loan before so it might be hard. He showed me my credit report that he had and pointed out various things. He had a print out of an Auto FICO score of 714 on my report. I told him that wasn’t my actual FICO report because I had a copy of it and it was really 789. He then said that the 714 wasn’t an actual FICO score but one based off of it. I then told him it shouldn’t matter that I hadn’t had a loan before because my credit was excellent and went back 15 years with a $10,000 credit limit on my card for that amount of time.

He then told me that he would see what he could do and that I could drive the car home tonight ( they had taken it out of the show room, prepped it and had it sitting outside the front door ready to go) and that tomorrow he would call me and let me know what APR I had qualified for. I told him that I wasn’t going anywhere without seeing my agreed upon price of the car in a written contract signed. Mike told me that all of that should have been taken care of before he saw me. He went a printed out a sheet of paper that had all the prices on it for my car.

The price that he had listed for my car was not $24,233 but $26,413. I told him that this was the wrong price and that taxes and fees were included in the price of $24,233. His print out had my price of $24,233 with the following added: $1,881.58 added for taxes and $298.75 for fees. The fees part is interesting because it doesn’t say what those fees are but that is pretty much exactly the extra amount I agreed to pay for the spoiler. However that extra had already been added into the base price. Remember the base price had increased by $298 already and I was going to be charged another $298 on top of that. It seems that they were going to double charge me for the spoiler.

I told him that his price was wrong and that the total price should have been $24,233. He said there was no way that was right and went to go talk to his manager (not January who made the deal). He came back and said that tax and license were never included in these types of prices and told me I owed $26,413.73. I refused and told him the deal was $24,233 and I wasn’t taking anything else. He went to go talk to his manager again and came back saying the original price was wrong and couldn’t include everything. I pulled out the written quote January gave me on Sunday and showed it to him. It specifically says that Tax, license dest + specs incl (body kit). He took the card to his manager and came back saying once again there was no way that was right.

I told him that was the deal and he was either going to give it to me for $24,233 or he wasn’t. I told him that if there was a problem with the deal then he would have had January in his office right away. She had approved the deal with her boss so what was the problem. It was a yes or no question I told him. He told me that he couldn’t sell me the car for $24,233 so I promptly stood up, told him that I was leaving then and walked out with my girlfriend. He ran out after me and gave me two gift certificates to Nordstrom’s as I was getting into my car. January then also ran out to try to apologize and I closed my car door and drove off.

Is it legal to let me drive a car off the lot and not even tell me what my loan amount is for or what APR i'm getting? What do you guys suggest i do?




Put this in Cliff note version?


Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:12:04 AM EDT
OK the summary is a price was agreed upon, and then the finance guy changed the price on me hoping that i'd go along with it.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:12:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:


Is it legal to let me drive a car off the lot and not even tell me what my loan amount is for or what APR i'm getting? What do you guys suggest i do?



I can't answer that question, but here's one for you. Do you really want to do business with these people. Apparently they have "puppy dog" closed you. You fell in love with the puppy.

If you can find a better price or a close one, I would choose another dealer.

M4-AK
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:14:24 AM EDT
tag for updates


I don't have any suggesitons
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:14:27 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 10:16:30 AM EDT by SIG45ACP]
They have your phone number, they know what exact vehicle you want and what you're willing to pay. Let them contact you. If they agree to sell the car under the same terms as they did at the first meeting, go get it. If they agree and then change the deal (again) after you get there, leave and never go back. Go back to where you got the first quote and see if they'll still honor it. Good luck dealing with these asshats.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:14:35 AM EDT
If all else fails try this:

www.stimpco.com/carpix/videos/cj_54063.wmv
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:15:00 AM EDT
Not much you can do but to suggest to any and all local acquaintances not to use their dealership.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:15:41 AM EDT
At this point, there's nothing more to be done about it. I very recently left a job at a Chevy/Pontiac dealership in the ghetto. Most customers had credit scores in the 400-500 range. It was very common for us to let the car go out with the customer, when they hadn't been approved by a bank yet... let alone knowing what rate. It was a frequent occurance for us to have to take a car back 2 weeks later or sometimes more, after all options had been exhausted.

At least you got to tool around in the car for a little bit, so now you know if it's the right car for you.

The next step is to send internet leads to the various Acura dealers in your area. Go to Acura's website, Edmunds, and other car shopping sites to send these. Dealers are very price competitive for internet shoppers, and usually give better prices than they would to other people. This also gives you the advantage of being able to resolve issues like that via email, and have everything in writing when you walk in to the store.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:16:10 AM EDT
Walk away. It is a buyers market right now.

Bob
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:16:22 AM EDT
This is a no-brainer....

Tell them to EAT YOUR BALLS and go fuck themselves.

Then you do business elsewhere. They aren't the only ACURA dealer around. It doesn't get any easier than that.

I fucking hate car dealers!
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:18:09 AM EDT

Originally Posted By gardenWeasel:
If all else fails try this:

www.stimpco.com/carpix/videos/cj_54063.wmv



Ultimate payback! What a dumbass, he lost a few K and now he will be in jail for a few years.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:18:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 10:21:06 AM EDT by KS_Physicist]

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:
OK the summary is a price was agreed upon, and then the finance guy changed the price on me hoping that i'd go along with it.



Screwing you is probably legal. Sales people will talk out of both sides if their face and several other body parts if they think they can get you hooked on a car.*

You telling them to shove it and refusing the car is also legal (even if you've 'generously' been 'allowed' to take the car already). Your state probably has a law about how much time you have to refuse a deal for any reason; in this case, you have very good cause, so even those limits might not apply. See your attorney about that.

Walk away from the car and talk to an attorney about whatever impact this might have on your credit rating for when you go to purchase a car from a reputable dealership. Also file a formal complaint with the car company; they don't like the bad reputation that screwy dealers creates.

Jim

*This is why they hate me now, I don't get hooked on a single car that I "must have". I have a list of about twenty different models from a variety of manufacturers that I like. When I'm shopping around for my next car, I have so many options that the dealers really have no leverege.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:19:40 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 10:21:00 AM EDT by TheSelecter]
Yeah this isnt really about the car. I dont truly need a new car and i'm in no hurry to buy. I just wanted to see i could report the dealer for anything to any kind of watch dog agency or something of that nature. I'm just sure if they actually did anything illegal.


ETA and yes i'm worried about the effect on my credit rating since they ran the check.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:20:30 AM EDT
You did exactly the right thing. I was expecting you to say "I reluctantly aggreed and now I think I am screwed". You left with your money and you didn't let them screw you. Find someone who ill make the deal and explain to them why you don't have the car all ready so they don't get the same idea to bend you over your new car!
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:21:13 AM EDT
Walk away now. They are obviously working you over to see how much extra money they can extract from you.

This is a car. Never fall in love with a car you do not already own. If you still want to do business with them, you'd better stiffen your spine fast or they will bend you over and fuck you. Tell them the deal is $24,233 all inclusive @ 4.9% APR or you are out the door and taking the gift certificates with you.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:25:55 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:

(Massive snip...)

What do you guys suggest i do?




Everything you wrote about is SOP at car dealers

Do more shopping and/or quotes on line

Arrange your own financing before buying

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:26:46 AM EDT
WALK AWAY.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:27:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:
OK the summary is a price was agreed upon, and then the finance guy changed the price on me hoping that i'd go along with it.




When this happens, walk. Period. Until you sign the dotted line it ain't a deal.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:28:42 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:29:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:
ETA and yes i'm worried about the effect on my credit rating since they ran the check.



I'm not sure what the exact number is, but there needs to be several recent inquiries on your credit report to have an effect. The credit report will only show inquiries made in the past 180 days. I don't think there's much to worry about in that regard.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:29:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tc6969:

Originally Posted By rebel_rifle:

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:
Ok so this is what happened to me. What do you guys suggest i do?




Put this in Cliff note version?





You quote the whole damn thing again and then ask for the cliff notes version?




Sarcasm, look it up in the dictionary.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:30:20 AM EDT
The sales lady was in the wrong for telling you that was the final figure when it wasn't. The finance guy was correct when he told you that those quotes never include taxes. The lady was either confused or talking out of her ass. When you go to a dealer you should get the exact price you agreed upon, ANY fees on top of that are cause to walk out (at which point they will usually run after you and agree to take them off).

You could report them to the BBB if you really wanted to take it that far but they treat it as an unresolved issue and you probably don't want to deal with those people anymore. I don't know that they've done anything that's legally actionable, it's typical dealer BS.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:31:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Noname:

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:

(Massive snip...)

What do you guys suggest i do?




Everything you wrote about is SOP at car dealers

Do more shopping and/or quotes on line

Arrange your own financing before buying




Excellent advice. When I bought my last car, I had my a loan pre-approved. The car dealer wanted my business on the financing also, so they offered me a lower rate. I called my loan officer and a bidding war quickly ensued. When it was over, I had a 5.25% note on a used 2002 Windstar SEL.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:32:42 AM EDT
You are the person in control, let them call you. As someone who sold cars for two months, I can say it's a dog eat dog world and I'm glad I'm out of it. They will call you cause a sale is better than no sale.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:37:27 AM EDT

Originally Posted By dolanp:
You could report them to the BBB if you really wanted to take it that far but they treat it as an unresolved issue and you probably don't want to deal with those people anymore.




Going to the BBB about a car dealer is a complete waste of time. The single largest industry the BBB gets complaints on is car dealerships, by a large margin. If the BBB actually could do anything, then why is that? The BBB has no teeth and car dealers know that.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:38:04 AM EDT
I would have asked to talk to upper management. Tell them what the problem was. If he is willing to satisfy you, good. If not, walk and see the next dealer.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:38:14 AM EDT
Yeah i found these guys through and online price quote. It was a big site like cars.com I had already done all my homework and made sure to bring in all the paper work to back everything up. Next time i'm going through a fleet buyer and financing through a credit union.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:39:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Noname:
Arrange your own financing before buying




+1, the best advice in this thread.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:41:59 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 10:42:54 AM EDT by Yojimbo]
Sounds like you diid the right thing. I'd just forget about them and put the word that out they not honest folks to deal with...

+1 to getting your own financing setup ahead of time.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:42:26 AM EDT
Sounds like you did not sign the sales contract...

If you did not, I see no obligation on your part to do jack shit...

'fuck em...go find another dealer... you did the right thing.

I read EVERYTHING, and make sure that I understand all of the numbers before I buy a car.
If I don't like it, I walk...NEVER take any shit from a car dealer...

If YOU are not in control, they WILL gang rape you with a smile

Why not secure your own financing from a bank or a credit union. It is much easier...just walk in, negotiate the cash price and hand them a pre-aproved check. I did this once, and it worked out great...
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:42:47 AM EDT
I woulda say, "Fuck yo momma" and walked out.



"This is the price me and July agreed on, and thats tax + everything out the door. That's the price I'm gonna pay, or I'm out. Now, do you want to sell a car or not? If I walk out that door, I am NOT coming back through it. How bad do you want the car?"


:shrug:


Easy as that. If they really want to sell the car, they will make good on it.

I had an experience(good one) with my dealer that I bought my truck from. They had it advertised on Autotrader for $10,995 so I emailed the guy and whatnot, kinda got the ball rolling, test drove it and said I'd get back to him.
A few days later, I checked on the truck again and this time it was listed as 11,995. So I email him asking what is up, he said they made a snafu on the price but if I was still wanting to buy it, they would honor the 10,995 price he had originally told me.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:45:51 AM EDT
Arranging the financing beforehand is not always the best way to go but it is good to know what you can get before you go to the F&I office.

The chicken scratches on the back of a business card dont mean shit. If you have a copy of a buyers order signed by the manager and you then you have an enforceable deal. Business cards don't count and salespeople dont know shit most of the time or they will out and out lie. I was in the business for many years as a salesmanager and F&I manager and I have seen almost everything out there.

When I buy a car I only speak to the salesmanager when we get to the numbers part. Salespeople these days are worse than any other time I can think of. 10-15 years ago you could find a truely professional salesperson that was honest and actually knew thier product. Now you usually cant find either of these qualities in a car dealer salesperson.

Good luck with you car search, and good job not doing the deal.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:49:16 AM EDT
I'll bet they call you.

Never mind their verbal offers, it only matters what's on the contract that you sign.

Don't take it personally, they'd screw their own brother...or sister. They'll never be your friend.

If you have a friend that will watch your back, taken them along.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:53:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By HighlandMac:
Arranging the financing beforehand is not always the best way to go but it is good to know what you can get before you go to the F&I office.




True....sometimes it is best to take the dealer offered financing....
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:55:15 AM EDT
Its the oldest trick in the book and you didnt fall for it. A lot of people would have signed and took the car.

I buy from 2 specific people now. A Chevy dealer and a BMW dealer. Both will not haggle with you. They will give you a price of $400-500 over invoice and thats it. I dont do trade-ins and I get my own financing.

The other way I get vehicles is to go through my brother who works for Toyota. Employee price out the door. Again take it or leave it price and no haggling or add ons.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:55:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 10:59:45 AM EDT by ScaryGuy]

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:
Not quoting the whole thing, but I read it.


Easy answer here. VERY easy:

Go to another dealership.

One of a few things is going on here:

1. January is a lying sleazeball and KNEW that taxes and fees weren't included even though she told you they were hoping you wouldn't notice or would want the car so bad you'd cave when you got to the finance table.

2. The finance manager is a lying sleazeball who looked to make a couple thou extra on you by letting you drive the car home, fall in love with it, and then want it so bad that you'd cave on the extra cash.

3. The manager is a bait and switch sleazeball who told the salesperson that everyhitng was included, and then told the finance guy that taxes and fees weren't.

4. Sales, Management and Finance don't know what the hell each other are doing/ don't communicate worth a shit.

In any event, the whole letting you drive the car home before the deal is done thing is a VERY common ploy by dealerships to get you to agree to a worse deal than you would normally, as after you drive it, you just GOTTA have it. I NEVER take the car until the sumbitch is signed sealed and delivered.

In any other event, it sounds like that at best you have three departments at this stealership that aren't communicating worth a fuck in which case you don't want to deal with them, or at worst you have a stealership where at lleast one if not all the department s lied to you to get you into a car for more than they originally agreed. (Color me shocked that a car dealer would act that way )
in which case you don't want to deal with them.

In short, go to another dealer, and get it all in writing ON AN OFFER SHEET signed by the manager and yourself before sitting down to finance.

Oh, and if they call you back, remind the assholes that it's YOUR money, YOUR choice of where to buy, and up to THEM to make it worth your while. Personally, I'd tell them they can either give you the ORIGINAL deal (minus the +- 300 extra for the upgraded spoiler) out the door, or tell them to go screw themselves... There are just too damn many places to buy a car to take that sort of shit.

Good Luck.

SG
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:56:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Nimrod1193:

Originally Posted By Noname:

Originally Posted By TheSelecter:

(Massive snip...)

What do you guys suggest i do?




Everything you wrote about is SOP at car dealers

Do more shopping and/or quotes on line

Arrange your own financing before buying




Excellent advice. When I bought my last car, I had my a loan pre-approved. The car dealer wanted my business on the financing also, so they offered me a lower rate. I called my loan officer and a bidding war quickly ensued. When it was over, I had a 5.25% note on a used 2002 Windstar SEL.





There's the best advice. Also get a finance calculator and run the same #'s they do. Sometimes the make mistakes and you pay more. You can't correct it after you sign.

www.carbuyingtips.com/finance.htm

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 11:00:14 AM EDT
first time buying a car, huh?



Link Posted: 3/1/2006 11:03:39 AM EDT
Rule #1: Care salesmen are out to cheat you.

Remember that and you will not go far wrong.
It is possible to find honest car salesmen, but they are few and far between. I found one, and because of the way he treated me in the first deal I ever did with him, and subsequent deals since, he has sold me every car I have bought (about 5 of them) since we first met. My last purchase worked with me calling him, telling him what I wanted and what price I wanted to pay, he told me the price he could do it at (about $400 more) and that was it. He called me when it was on the lot a few days later. No sitting for hours arguing, no trying to push what was on the lot at the time, nothing - just trust on my part that his price was as low as he could reasonably go, and trust on his part that after getting the car in I would actually turn up and buy it -- guess why I keep going back to him?

You probably already know this, but some "rules" for getting a reasonable deal on a car:

1: Spend the time to find out what is a reasonable price for the car you want to buy. You can get the basic info from various websites. Essentially, you need to find out the price the seller is paying -- this is NOT the "invoice price". It is the invoice price, less any dealer discounts, less the dealer holdback. Both of those figures you can find on the web.

Now that you have an idea what was paid, you can calculate a reasonable profit to add to that (~3%). The dealer holdback is intended to cover expenses such as insurance while the car is sitting on the lot. Unless the car has been special ordered for you, its only reasonable to assume that the dealer will have actually spent at least some of that money , the fraction depending upon how long the car has been sitting on the lot. In general, allow them to keep this. Dealer incentives are fair game. You may not get all of it, but set your sights on at least 50%.

So your selling price should look like:

base cost + 3% + holdback + (dealer incentive * 0.5)

This will give you an idea of where the floor lies -- you are VERY unlikely to get a better deal than this. Its also allowing the dealer to make a fair profit.

If there are any buyer incentives from the manufacturer, subtract them at this time.

If you are looking for specific colors and add-ons you need to add the prices of these too. Take the invoice costs of these, and add them to your total price.

Now we come to the hard part - the dealer has a delivery charge. He has to pay this. You probably will have to reimburse him for this if you are only allowing him 3% on the car. If he eats it, there is some other discount that he is getting that you missed.

The even harder part is tax. I live in a civilized state which doesn't have sales tax, so its a non-issue for me, but the tax will have to be paid, so you have to add that to your price too.

Now you have an idea of the price you should actually pay. If you are looking for significantly less, then you may need to re-think what you are asking for. The dealer has to make some money on the deal, and the sales person probably needs to eat too (even though we may not think so).

2. Getting finance through the dealer is usually not a good idea. You can often do as well, if not better elsewhere. It gives them one more chance to screw you. The exception is when the manufacturer is offering a deal on finance -- very often though, if you check, it will be EITHER a low APR, OR some number of dollars off -- don't expect to get both.

Do some basic math - if you take the cash discount, you have to borrow less. Borrowing from your credit union (if you are still using a bank you are an idiot -- move to a CU before doing anything else) may look like a higher APR, but you end up borrowing less -- usually this cancells out and you end up with very similar repayments.

If you can, get financing arranged with your CU before going near the dealer. The only time I took dealer financing was when there was a $2k discount tied to using their fiancing. I verified that there was no payoff penalty. Took their financing, for the cash discount, then when I got home, called my CU, refinanced the car that I had bought that day, and they paid off the dealer loan the next day. I think I paid something like $5 interest on that loan -- for a $2k cash discount.

3. Be prepared to spend HOURS at the dealer. They expect to wear you down, and eventually have you agree just to get out of there. Have no commitments. Be prepared to stay till midnight if that is what it takes.

4. Be prepared to walk. Even if you have invested 5 or 6 hours and its 11:59pm, if you are not getting what you want, be happy to walk away.

5. Don't be TOO fixed on your price. Allow them to save face, by agreeing to your price + $500 or so.

6. Don't let them start with a high price and you have to whittle it down. You have done your homework, when they write a number on a piece of paper and pass it over to you cross it out and write in your offer -- let them do the work of pushing the price up, not you do the work of pushing it down. They may ask you how you came up with the price -- tell them if you want to. There is a good chance they will wail and scream that you subtractd the holdback -- just ignore all the screaming and point out that you are adding it back later -- you are just calculating a fair margin on the price they actually paid -- the rest is gravy, and you are letting them keep that.

7. The more extras you want, the harder it gets to bargain. Decide on an absolute minimum of extras that you will accept. Remember that things like a spoiler can be added later, but the high-end audio system cannon -- at least not for a reasonable price. Having a choice of colors that are acceptable helps too. In my last few cars, I have asked for the minimum of extras -- but insisted upon the high-end engine. The high-end engined cars usually come loaded. You just want the engine, not the extras -- they will often end up not charging for all the extra goodies, or at least throwing them in at a bargain price.

8. You NEVER want any of the extras they try to sell at signing, no engraved glass, no special treatments for your state weather, no extended warranties - nothing extra at all.

9. You can (if time permits) apply the extra pressures to get your deal. End of the month is a good time to buy. They have monthly targets to meet. End of the month at the end of the quarter is even better. Walk in about 45 minutes before closing time -- if you don't have any great urge to go home and go to bed, the salesman, his manager and the person who does the contract work all do.

------------------

What you went through is not unusual in trying to buy a car. Don't get upset by it, just learn to play the game. Car buying in the US is mostly much more frustrating for everyone involved than it needs to be, just be prepared, and ensure that they are the ones getting frustrated, not you.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 11:10:06 AM EDT
On financing, get pre approved by a bank or a credit union. On our last car a credit union beat all banks and car companies. If you're not a member it's no big deal, just put $100 into a saving account and you're a member. It was well worth it for us, if you walk into the dealership pre-approved it removes some of their power to dick you around.

On selecting the dealership, ask for referrals to a specific salesperson from others you know who have Acuras. Not a guarantee of quality service, but it's worked for me in the past.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 11:12:24 AM EDT
Car dealers are snakes.

They are out to get as much out of you as they can. The plan is to keep you there and wear you down.

Also popular is the "go talk to the manager". This gives you time to sit and think about how bad you want the car. While you are doing this, January will be off taking a dump, smoking a cigarette, and deciding what to spend that commision on.

I haven't bought too many cars, but my shopping method seems to work. I research the vehicle, and the price, then I decide how much I am willing to spend. I then go to the dealership, find the least oily salesman, and ask for the bottom line, low as it can get price. If that price is too high, I tell them it's more than I'm willing to pay and walk out the door. I have yet to make it to my car without a salesman running out with a lower price.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 11:16:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 11:19:43 AM EDT by mytwocents]
you negotiated the price of the car not the taxes and destination fees. Thats what it sounds like.
They will try to get you in the Lie-nance office. With extra fees, but this doesnt sound like it.
Watch out for the interest they want to charge you if you finance thru them. They have a reserve. Meaning they get one rate you get another and they keep the difference.
Bought a 2006 scion and a 2006 corolla. I hate buying cars.

ETA
Scaryguy and Phillippeake say it better than me my bad
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 11:24:15 AM EDT
The taxes and licensing are never in the agreed upon price of the vehicle(at least none of the dozen or so new vehicles I have purchaased). The fees are applicable sales taxes, destination fees and maybe prep charges.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 11:24:59 AM EDT
Here is a suggestion my man! Go through a bank or credit union and get pre approved for a loan for the price of the car!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!­!!!! Hint hint hint! That way once you pay for the vehicle these slime have no sword to hold over your head! They cant pull the "your loan has been denied and we need another $1000 down for it to go through" crap if you finance through them!!! Once you pay them thats it! Another thing! Go to carbuyingtips.com lots of great info on there! Also go to consumer reports and buy a print out of the vehicle you want to buy. It will have the msrp and what the slime...er I mean the car dealer paid for it. Find out what the car cost them and add 2-3% of the vehicle cost for thier profit margin. Dont pay any flipping fees, walk in there armed and ready for battle and they wont take advantage of you. Tell them this is what you want, what you are going to pay and if you cant do anything for me in 10 minutes im out the door! Watch the results! Had a smacktard Toyota dealer try to steal my $1000 rebate from me in downtown Savannah. I just went to a place where they worked with me and got my truck through them. Like I said go in armed and ready and they will not mess with you!
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 11:27:21 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 11:37:31 AM EDT
PhilipPeake is spot on. Follow his guidance to a T and you will have no problems. As funny as it sounds, I think the single most effective buying ploy other than being well-researched beforehand is coming in 30-45 minutes before they close. You can just see the agony on the salesman/finance guys faces every minute after 10 pm or so. I actually thought that was the fun part (watching them suffer) whilst I put the screws to them (they had closed at 8, this was a Sunday) when I bought my Tacoma.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 11:48:12 AM EDT
Nothing illegal was done.

This is SOP for a dealership.


Hell has more morals than any dealership I have been in.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 12:38:10 PM EDT
Yeah thanks for all the advice guys. Its pretty much the same as all i've been reading up on the last few months. I did all my homework and thats the only reason that i knew this was a smoking deal. If the deal had gone through, the dealer would have been getting about $800 over invoice for the car and then giving me $1,700 worth of options for free and installing them for me. It was worth a shot
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 12:50:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By EdAvilaSr:
Tell January Lopez (with a heavy spanish accent) :

July-ed. June-not going to rob me blind.Then March out of there




There is not a laughing smily big enough to represent how damn loud I just laughed!

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 1:18:25 PM EDT
Hey, lighten up on the car dealers, would you? That is what they do for a living, how they pay their bills and feed their children.

You may not like the game, but YOU ASKED FOR IT!

It is quite easy to get what you want. Arrange financing and get a check from your bank for the amount you are willing to pay, say 23,XXX bucks. After all the negotiations, if they agree to sell at your price, sign contract, and tell them you will pay in full when you pick it up.

The day you go to get the car, put check in your top pocket. When they pull the "pile-ons at close", just pull the check out of your pocket, and say "this is all I got, take it or leave it". Never give them a credit app, period, end of sentence.

They usually will take it.

Oh, and I sold cars for 7 years, made real good income during that time and had many repeat customers.

And one of the most agrivating sales routines is called "the California style" of selling.
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