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Posted: 3/1/2006 9:10:47 AM EDT
We've been talking about what you would or wouldn't trade to protect gun rights, and we've been talking about whether or not Reagan was wrong to sign the 1986 FOPA into law. Now I would like to know what your line in the sand is.

The second amendment stopped being a right in 1934 when congress put nationwide restrictions on the types of arms that people could keep and the circumstances under which people could keep and bear these arms. This privelage was restricted again in 1968 when the federal government decided that people should only own firearms intended for certain purposes, that fewer people needed access to firearms and laying out the manner in which firearms could be obtained from a dealer. Of course in 1986 we had the privelage to own newly manufactured machine guns revoked completely leaving us to squabble over what are quickly becoming relics (the last civilan machine guns are now 20 years old), and then in 1994 we had the now defunct assault weapons ban which attempted to clear up the loopholes left by the previous laws.

That is where we are, and we all know that eventually there will be more gun bans coming. The democrats continue to submit bills to congress even though they know that there is not enough support for them at this time, as if to show us what is in store when they eventually do return to power. And make no mistake, they WILL eventually return to power. Politics is cyclical and no one stays on top forever.

So where do you draw the line? Where do you say 'enough is enough'? Where is your line in the sand? At what point will you stop letting the second amendment be treated like a privelage?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:14:37 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
At what point will you stop letting the second amendment be treated like a privelage?



When 2 others stand beside me.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:17:19 AM EDT
Depends on what you mean by "line in the sand".

Mine's past being reached.

I now own guns...Not many, as I'm too busy spending money on training and ammo
for the 12 Gauge, .40 and, AR platforms that I own now....I got my CC Permit in the mail last friday and plan to carry everywhere I can.

I belong to the NRA and, keep track of my elected official's 2nd ammendment adherance.

If a candidate is anti-gun, I won't vote for them.

I convereted my wife to a gun lover and, am raiseing the children she
brought into the marriage as gun-freindly citizens.

Is this what you had in mind, or are we talking about somthing else?
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:17:31 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
At what point will you stop letting the second amendment be treated like a privelage?



When 2 others stand beside me.



I'm not talking about a revolution or shooting it out with the BATFE. There are other alternatives.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:21:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/1/2006 9:21:35 AM EDT by motown_steve]

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
Is this what you had in mind, or are we talking about somthing else?



Kind of.

I'm not talking about revolution or anything. I'm just talking about what you will and will not put up with.

For me it's registration and/or confiscation. I won't register and I won't turn in anything that is legal for me to own today.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:24:23 AM EDT
While I appreciate your interest, this is a bad thread to have in a public forum. Call me as tinfoil as you want.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:24:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
Depends on what you mean by "line in the sand".

Mine's past being reached.

I now own guns...Not many, as I'm too busy spending money on training and ammo
for the 12 Gauge, .40 and, AR platforms that I own now....I got my CC Permit in the mail last friday and plan to carry everywhere I can.

I belong to the NRA and, keep track of my elected official's 2nd ammendment adherance.

If a candidate is anti-gun, I won't vote for them.

I convereted my wife to a gun lover and, am raiseing the children she
brought into the marriage as gun-freindly citizens.

Is this what you had in mind, or are we talking about somthing else?





Bingo. I do all that I can do right now. If it comes to "turn it in or be arrested"...., I know my answer to that. That's about it.

We need to play offense though so that when the tide changes we have gained some ground before the ebb begins.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:25:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
Is this what you had in mind, or are we talking about somthing else?



Kind of.

I'm not talking about revolution or anything. I'm just talking about what you will and will not put up with.

For me it's registration and/or confiscation. I won't register and I won't turn in anything that is legal for me to own today.



So what are you willing to do?

I have had this conversation with someone else before. He said he'll never turn anything over if it comes to it.

He said he was willing to take up arms against the threat of sezures. Nothing good will come of that...you'll end up dead. The day's of patriots dying for a cause and the .gov listening, I think, are over. The lawyers have control now....Voters dont vote.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:25:47 AM EDT
As far as i'm concerned, the line was breached a long, long time ago.
Before I was even born.
But, people didn't fight it enough back then, so we've got to deal with the crap today...
NRA needs to cut the shit and make some things happen all ready.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:27:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
Is this what you had in mind, or are we talking about somthing else?



Kind of.

I'm not talking about revolution or anything. I'm just talking about what you will and will not put up with.

For me it's registration and/or confiscation. I won't register and I won't turn in anything that is legal for me to own today.



So what are you willing to do?

I have had this conversation with someone else before. He said he'll never turn anything over if it comes to it.

He said he was willing to take up arms against the threat of sezures. Nothing good will come of that...you'll end up dead. The day's of patriots dying for a cause and the .gov listening, I think, are over. The lawyers have control now....Voters dont vote.




Well then I might as well sell all my guns now and buy myself a nice big flatscreen TV huh?

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:28:19 AM EDT
Some states are perfectly in tune with the 2nd, although I'd agree that from the 1934 gun laws on, the Feds have violated it.

Line in the sand? I ain't turning them in.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:29:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Goonboss:
Is this what you had in mind, or are we talking about somthing else?



Kind of.

I'm not talking about revolution or anything. I'm just talking about what you will and will not put up with.

For me it's registration and/or confiscation. I won't register and I won't turn in anything that is legal for me to own today.



Oh, yeah....No way.

For clarity sake; I never owned a weapon until I was 36 years old(Two years ago). I bought My wife's 20 gauge for her to defend the house and, livestock..Then bought a pistol, then, was exposed to ARFCOM by Photoman on a jobsite I worked in WI. Since then I bought my AR and did all the things I listed. I'm also a professional training junkie now.

Once I joined ARFCOM, I started realizeing how I'd had my head in the sand for so long, and, became active in what I consider to be "The Struggle" AFAIC. Now I've gone from angering people becasue I'm not active in 2nd preservation, to makeing them mad becasue I'm beating on them constantly to get training on the weapons they own in order to be able to employ them
in times of crisis.

I've been responsible for authoring my company's shotgun training course that I pushed hard and, obnoxiously for after we went armed into the Katrina aftermath.

The real choice will be my line if they ever come house to house for weapons.

I don't believe that will happen, but, I believe it COULD happen.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:29:13 AM EDT
evil prospers when good men do nothing...and most good men will retreat and avoid confrontation until it affects them directly...which is usually too late.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:33:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Jon3:
While I appreciate your interest, this is a bad thread to have in a public forum. Call me as tinfoil as you want.



I won't call you tinfoil, but I'm not going to back off this thread either. I'm an American dammit! I'm not promoting the over throw of the government and I'm not inciting anyone to break any laws. I am simply giving my opinion on the state of affairs in my country and asking what they intend to do when it inevitably gets worse. I have a first amendment right to say these things and ask these questions and I'm not going to intimidated or afraid to speak my mind.

Oh, and for the record, it was the civil disobedience of brave blacks who ignored the unjust segregation laws and won their equality in our society. The people have a duty to disobey laws that are unjust and doing so can and does bring an end to those laws.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:33:43 AM EDT
The second ammendment stopped being a right long before 1934. Go back to the original carry laws passed in some states, many of which were jim crow laws. We're talking 19th century here.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:46:37 AM EDT

Well then I might as well sell all my guns now and buy myself a nice big flatscreen TV huh?


I am not saying that. I think an individual needs more than himself to protest something like this now in our day and times. Think about how many gun owners there are in America. How many vote? How many 'help' by donating to the NRA? Far fewer than the actual number of owners.

If anything happens, it is beucase the gun owners of America let it happen.

I aint giving my back, period.

Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:52:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ZitiForBreakfast:

Well then I might as well sell all my guns now and buy myself a nice big flatscreen TV huh?


I am not saying that. I think an individual needs more than himself to protest something like this now in our day and times. Think about how many gun owners there are in America. How many vote? How many 'help' by donating to the NRA? Far fewer than the actual number of owners.

If anything happens, it is beucase the gun owners of America let it happen.

I aint giving my back, period.




Yep. It amazes me how many talk a big game about revolution, etc, but are too lazy
or apathetic to go VOTE or donate to pro-gun causes and .orgs.

I'm praying if it ever comes down to a fight, I don't have to rely on somone who couldn't
be bothered long enough to put down his cheetos and Yoo-Hoo to fringgin' cast a ballot.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 9:53:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
At what point will you stop letting the second amendment be treated like a privelage?



When 2 others stand beside me.



I'm not talking about a revolution or shooting it out with the BATFE. There are other alternatives.



Neither am I. But I aint gonna stand on the corner holding signs by myself, and I aint gonna be the only guy to write letters or make phone calls.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:12:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:

Originally Posted By Specop_007:

Originally Posted By motown_steve:
At what point will you stop letting the second amendment be treated like a privelage?



When 2 others stand beside me.



I'm not talking about a revolution or shooting it out with the BATFE. There are other alternatives.



Neither am I. But I aint gonna stand on the corner holding signs by myself, and I aint gonna be the only guy to write letters or make phone calls.



It's a good thing for blacks that Rosa Parks didn't feel the same way.
Link Posted: 3/1/2006 10:13:48 AM EDT
tag for later 18 page/lock firestorm... and, because I need to think hard about where my line is...
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 12:18:06 PM EDT
Maybe you should ask the Illinios boys about this?

-Ben
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 12:25:28 PM EDT
I will NOT give up anything I purchased legally.


- not my guns
- not my 'high' capacity magazines
- not my sports car
- not my dog
- not a single knife


I jumped through their hoops, followed their rules & laws. They can't change them after the fact.
Link Posted: 3/4/2006 12:27:38 PM EDT


Link Posted: 3/4/2006 12:31:34 PM EDT
I do all I can to convince people that an armed society is a safe society. I read all I can on the subject. So I have statistics and what not. I teach my kids about guns and they love to go shooting. I am a member of the NRA. I NEVER vote for a candidate that is anti-gun.


As far as confiscastion goes I don't really have to worry about that anymore since last summer. You see I was in this tragic boating accident........................
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